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The Official PC building thread - 4th Edition
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AfterDawn Addict
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5. October 2010 @ 21:00 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
I assume maybe you need it in IDE mode to run DVD drives form it? No idea, I've never installed more optical drives than will fit on the motherboard.
Sam,
DVD drives run fine in AHCI Mode, and allow hot swapping. They still run as Sata drives in IDE Mode, but no longer allow hot swapping. That's about the only difference. You also can't do a Raid array with ODDs.
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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AfterDawn Addict
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5. October 2010 @ 21:07 |
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Well no, figures :P But as I interpreted it, he was trying to avoid RAID, not use it.
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AfterDawn Addict
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5. October 2010 @ 22:42 |
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Sam,
I only mentioned it so people wouldn't ask whether they can run ODDs in Raid, a very common question on the net. With the Raid drivers removed, it seems to work, at least with the BD drive. With the two errors he sees, the first one is for the new Sata Controller card, while the second has to do with the USB.
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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Senior Member
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5. October 2010 @ 22:56 |
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Originally posted by omegaman7:
But now I have to find out how to flash my card to IDE bios.
I guess my confusion was the fact that flashing the card's Bios was mentioned along with setting motherboard bios from SATA to IDE
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AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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5. October 2010 @ 23:06 |
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I've only ever had one optical drive in a PC at once. One each in both my PCs currently and both IDE as well. I barely use them so SATA never mattered to me much. And as far as internal drives go the DFI 790FX has 4 onboard SATAs and the Gigabyte X38 has 6 so I've still got a little breathing room...
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
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5. October 2010 @ 23:38 |
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Only reason I have a SATA one is it was going cheap from a friend who used it because it could be used with an external enclosure that only took SATA drives, originally bought for hard disks :P
The DFI board really only has 4 onboard SATA ports? That's poor in my opinion, even the 965P boards from Gigabyte had 6 for all but the basic boards. My P31-DS3L has 4 and that was almost as low end as you got.
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AfterDawn Addict
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6. October 2010 @ 00:36 |
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Originally posted by Deadrum33:
Originally posted by omegaman7:
But now I have to find out how to flash my card to IDE bios.
I guess my confusion was the fact that flashing the card's Bios was mentioned along with setting motherboard bios from SATA to IDE
Motherboard bios? I don't believe I said that :/
at least I hope I've only spoken of it calling it a card ;)
Allow me to alleviate the confusion. I like to have multiple ODD's. I have my reasons. Though in the future, I may convert 3 of the bays over to 4 Hard drives.
In order to run ODD's on the card, its my understanding that the "cards" bios needs to be flashed to IDE mode. Its simply a communication protocol from what I understand. It doesn't exactly limit the speed ;) Perhaps in some cases? But for the moment, it seems to be fine. I'll probably leave things exactly as they are now for the time being, and see how the BD drive fairs ;)
Seems to be ok. I verified a blu ray disc, via imgburn, at over 20,000Kb/s Love that iHES108 LOL! Nah, its only a C+ grade BD reader... In fact, it's barely better than a lemon :(
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. October 2010 @ 01:21
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6. October 2010 @ 04:02 |
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The WD20EARS drives are now a stupidly cheap £72.33 exc VAT (i can get stuff VAT free), even including VAT it would be £85 which is what i just paid (again, VAT free) for my 2TB Hitachi drives (of which Misco are now out of stock).
It's early so please jog my memory - don't these drives power down or something, or hang on, it's most likely the 'advanced format' thing isn't it ?, so basically what do i have to do with a WD20EARS to get it to function like 'normal' hard drives (i.e. i don't care for spinning down heads and all that crap, i just want them to behave like normal drives). Or can't it be done in which case i'm probably better off getting different drives...
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. October 2010 @ 04:03
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6. October 2010 @ 04:09 |
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I believe someone on newegg said it could be done. Not sure how though. I'm not worried about it myself. It behaves within reason. My drives don't idle. The heads however on the green drive unload. Very slight difference. I only hope its behavior, doesn't cut its lifespan too much ;)
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
AfterDawn Addict
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6. October 2010 @ 04:59 |
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To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
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6. October 2010 @ 05:08 |
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Thanks, i remember reading a little about the 4K sectors now, i use XP on that machine (and XP is staying on there) so it's the WD Align utility i guess. As to the head parking i'll have to read up on that. So far the WDIDLE utility shows to only be for other WD models, not the WD20EARS, still googling though...
edit- just reading that if the WD20EARS is configured correctly for XP, you have to be careful if/when upgrading to Win7. That in itself doesn't bother me, but what does is that i'd be having an external WD20EARS as a backup of the internal drive. The problem that might arise is that i could potentially be using (mounting via a USB dock) the backup drive in linux machines, or even on Win7 machines. Just trying to get my head around whether this would create problems. I only buy WD drives and am annoyed i have to even waste time reading up on drives, i just want to buy them, plug them in, format and forget about them, it's damn annoying having to then fart about tweaking them to 'just work'. The backup drive would potentially be used (including being written to) back and forth between XP, linux, maybe Win7, if these drives have to be tweaked each time they're used on a different OS, i won't be buying them.
What i won't do is buy Seagate drives (i've found one at roughly the same price as the WD20EARS), so i've either got to be confident that WD20EARS drives are suitable for my use, or source the Hitachi drives i'd just started buying thru Misco (outside of Misco and thus have to pay the VAT). Decisions, decisions.
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. October 2010 @ 07:05
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ps3lvanub
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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6. October 2010 @ 06:53 |
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What are the full set of components that I need to buy to build a fully working PC? Including dedicated sound and GFX card. I have done odd jobs for people like replacing hard drives but I really want to get into this properly.
IMPORTANT: If you hate Sony for being so corrupt, copy this image into your signature too! |
AfterDawn Addict
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6. October 2010 @ 10:35 |
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£77.99 usually from better priced stores than Misco (though I don't know what other stores do for VAT free stuff).
Without flashing firmware (which WD are supposed to have blocked) you can't make any WD Green perform exactly like a 'normal' hard disk.
The 4K sector functionality can be disabled through a simple jumper switch - this is only necessary if you're using XP or potentially some Linux OSes. In Windows Vista/7 the 4K sector functionality does not cause any problems.
All drives can be set to spin down after a certain interval, but when they are resumed, you have to wait the 5-10 second period for them to spin up again (3s for raptors), which rapidly gets tedious if they're only used for short intervals. What the WD Green drives do is leave the platters spinning (for a while anyway), and unload the drive heads. This means the drive can be resumed almost instantly, while still idling at less than 4 Watts per drive. The average 7200rpm drive idles above 8 Watts per drive.
It is this head unload process that people whine about.
I personally have not had any problems with it at all, it does not cause lag in games running off one of the drives, it does not cause problems with video playback to a drive, it does not cause problems writing a disc from a drive.
The only problem with the unload system is sensitive software-RAID configs can get confused by it and drop a disk out of the array. In my mind though, people who use cheap software-RAID should expect problems anyway.
There is no 'magic bullet' big drive, for the following reasons:
Hitachi - Questionable long-term reliability (but no proof for this yet), poor Unrecoverable error rate statistics, means errors on disk surface quite likely
Seagate - Questionable firmware (proof on this, but mainly 7200rpm drives), poor unrecoverable error rate statistics, means errors on disk surfacr quite likely - 7200rpm drives are loud
Samsung - Poor mid-term reliability, most drive failures occur after 4-12 months, after the drives have most of their data, but before they're due to be replaced
Western Digital - Poor immediate-term reliability, WD sell refurbished drives as new (and aren't the only brand to do this), so a drive that has any marks on it is likely to be short lived. Long term reliability good, but high DOA %. Plus the head unload issues mentioned earlier.
In my opinion, WD seems the best choice as, assuming you're not using a cruddy RAID array (as opposed to a hardware RAID with a controller and cache, or flexRAID with a parity disk) they seem most likely to survive long term without errors. You just may have a few RMAs when they first arrive.
ps3lvanub:
CPU - Mandatory
Motherboard - Mandatory
RAM - Mandatory
Graphics card - Mandatory unless motherboard offers integrated graphics
Sound card - Optional, all motherboards have integrated sound
CD/DVD drive - Optional
Hard disk drive or SSD - Mandatory for at least one, multiples are optional
Power Supply - Mandatory
Case - Mandatory
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ps3lvanub
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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6. October 2010 @ 10:37 |
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Thanks sammorris. Want to create a cheap OC'd machine for moderate gaming and office use.
EDIT:Typo
IMPORTANT: If you hate Sony for being so corrupt, copy this image into your signature too!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. October 2010 @ 10:37
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AfterDawn Addict
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6. October 2010 @ 10:53 |
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Define 'moderate gaming' - what sort of games does the PC need to play? Does it need to futureproof for upcoming top titles, are you after reasonable graphic detail, or will you happily suffer low detail as long as it plays the game at all?
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6. October 2010 @ 11:21 |
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I've just found a spare drive jumper (in case i buy a WD20EARS and it doesn't come with one), however the purchase will have to wait. Had just finished (remotely) reconfiguring a PC only to be told it (literally!) blew up after i'd finished with it, so need to go order a replacement from Dell. Plus our aged (linux) mail server has been making horrible noises all day, and the fans are making erratic noises, methinks it's close to popping it's clogs. I sense a few hundred disgruntled people by the morning judging by the noises.
Problems, problems :)
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
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AfterDawn Addict
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6. October 2010 @ 14:01 |
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As sam said, the WD20EARS doesn't give him any troubles. It's performed better than I expected as well. The unloading of the heads is extremely minor for me as well. Now if it had to spin up...I don't like that :p I like my drives to always be ready. My WD1001FALS don't mind my running that way. I see no reason why I can't run the EARS drive that way. I heard not long ago, that they use same/similar hardware. If the drive quits though...I'll chock it up to yet another dissatisfied statistic to the WD20EARS drive, and switch to the WD2001FASS drive so quick, that its unreal :p
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
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6. October 2010 @ 17:19 |
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Originally posted by omegaman7:
In order to run ODD's on the card, its my understanding that the "cards" bios needs to be flashed to IDE mode.
I guess it just confused me because when I hear IDE mode, i think of the mobo BIOS setting that changes the properties of of your SATA connections. When I heard flash the card, i didn't know you had to do anything special to the card to get it to work.
No, an ODD won't work in RAID. But if your mobo BIOS is not in RAID, and you don't setup RAID array with the software for the new card, then I still don't understand the need to flash but it's your card and I'll assume its got a different setting or special firmware then other cards I've seen.
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6. October 2010 @ 17:24 |
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I'm betting that if I were to flash it, the boot screen would change. There would be no more Raid options. And windows would probably see the card as being either something else, or simply different. But as it stands now, by not installing a Raid driver, windows is handling it as an IDE device. I think Russ is correct in this respect ;)
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
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6. October 2010 @ 17:50 |
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Oman7---Sounds good, glad all is well.
Creaky---I'm using some Greens in my Originally posted by sammorris:
cruddy RAID array (as opposed to a hardware RAID with a controller and cache, or flexRAID with a parity disk)
which have been flashed with the WDTLER method and all SMART reports look normal.
Flashing was fun because had to set mobo to IDE mode and found that it only worked on my 2 intel SATA but not my 4 Gigabyte ports. Also Creaky, off topic, check your PM's (please):)
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AfterDawn Addict
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6. October 2010 @ 18:37 |
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Oh yah! I didn't realize flash drives were getting so big. I had a feeling 128Gb was around, but never 256Gb. Awesome! Rather expensive and slow though...
256Gb King
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8. October 2010 @ 15:55 |
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Hey GM, remember when you recommended the ---> External USB enclosure? <--- LOL! Nah, I don't blame you for my current predicament. Just thought I would throw this out there ;) Apparently, its now suffering from a power deficiency of some kind. I'll be looking into it either tonight or tomorrow. As the drive speeds up, I can tell that the enclosure isn't maintaining a constant flow of electricity. The LED light begins to flicker, the drive itself tries to drop out, etc, etc. Obviously an electric issue. Hopefully the transformer is not going. That would be truly unfortunate.
I've already played with the supply cord ;)
LOL! Poor Vantec. One of the bad reviews should actually be a good review. The guy screwed up, and gave it one egg...
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. October 2010 @ 16:02
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8. October 2010 @ 16:18 |
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Had the same thing happen to the power adapter for my old enclosure recently, thankfully I have a spare power adapter.
I recently bought a new hotswap box for the sole purpose of backing up my server to the WD20EARSes due on Monday.
Also got new fan controllers in the PC, two Scythe Kaze Masters. VFD displays are so much nicer than those horrible bright LEDs :)
Same as this, but with black dials instead of silver
Will have to take a new photo at some point.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. October 2010 @ 16:20
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Senior Member
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8. October 2010 @ 16:58 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
I recently bought a new hotswap box for the sole purpose of backing up my server to the WD20EARSes due on Monday.
Those are nice, especially the fact it will dock a 2.5" as well as 3.5" HDD. They are great when connecting to an older PC with no ESATA via USB. I personally forgo the dock when there is an ESATA port, and just plug the bare drive directly in and I know its not best practice but hey I'm a rebel i guess...
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AfterDawn Addict
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8. October 2010 @ 17:09 |
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No easy power access for me, PSU is brimmed running the existing 13 drives :P
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