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The Official PC building thread - 4th Edition
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28. August 2012 @ 12:03 |
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Originally posted by Estuansis:
Well Bulldozer OCs fairly well and he wants me to do it for him so that's part of my fee. Not a bad trade considering the 1090T hold 4GHz effortlessly and I am confident it goes higher.
Do you mind if I ask what is your friend going to use his computer for and which Bulldozer CPU does he plan on using? Is it for gaming, general purpose performance, or something else? Also, Piledriver CPUs seem to be launching soon (maybe not, but Tom's is getting spec sheets and such for it and from what I've heard, AMD has been saying either late 2012 or very early 2013 is when it launches), so maybe you could tell your friend about that. It's a very large improvement over Bulldozer and is considerably better than Phenom II even without the core-configuration *mod* that I've previously mentioned.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. August 2012 @ 12:05
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28. August 2012 @ 14:34 |
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It's not going to be for a month or two and we haven't decided which model to get. I also have told him to wait a short bit and see what happens with Piledriver.
He's mostly a gamer and photo editor so I'd say general performance with an emphasis on gaming. His video card is a single 6970 2GB, so for his uses any Bulldozer at 4GHz would be over-powered. He's mostly looking for an excuse to spend money AFAIK. Who am I to argue? lol
His motherboard is an 890FXA-UD5 ie AM3-only so he might be selling me his board for cheap too. Essentially a very beefy version of the board in my sig.
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For the record:
Gigabyte GA-X38-DS4 - about 3 1/2 years IIRC, bought right after Sam's, no issues
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 G0 - Same age as X38, no issues holding original OC @ 3.7GHz 1.45v
2 x 2GB Mushkin XP Ascent PC2-6400 CL4 w/ 2.1v - Same age as above board and CPU, Holding a 25MHz OC problem free
MSI 8800GTS G92 512MB - About 4 years, moved over from original Intel dual core rig with E6750 @ 3.6GHz, no issues
Corsair 620HX - About 4 years, bought for original Intel dual core rig. AKA "OLD FAITHFUL"
Corsair 550VX - About 2 1/2 years, bought to build my secondary box when I moved back to AMD
AMD Phenom II 955 BE - About 1 1/2 years, bought to replace room heater 940BE, slowly losing OC stability past 3.7GHz
Gigabyte GA-890XA-UD3 - Same age as 955BE, bought to replace poorly cooled but otherwise excellent DFI LanParty DK-790FX-M2RS
2 x XFX HD6850 1GB Crossfire - 1y 7mo, bought January 2011 brand-new, one RMA'd for cooler replacement due to seized fan bearing
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388 |
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28. August 2012 @ 15:02 |
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Originally posted by Blazorthon:
Originally posted by Estuansis:
Well Bulldozer OCs fairly well and he wants me to do it for him so that's part of my fee. Not a bad trade considering the 1090T hold 4GHz effortlessly and I am confident it goes higher.
Do you mind if I ask what is your friend going to use his computer for and which Bulldozer CPU does he plan on using? Is it for gaming, general purpose performance, or something else? Also, Piledriver CPUs seem to be launching soon (maybe not, but Tom's is getting spec sheets and such for it and from what I've heard, AMD has been saying either late 2012 or very early 2013 is when it launches), so maybe you could tell your friend about that. It's a very large improvement over Bulldozer and is considerably better than Phenom II even without the core-configuration *mod* that I've previously mentioned.
Blazorthon,
Would you by chance have a link for that mod. I would like to read up on it a bit myself. I have a 1090t on a GigaByte 990-XA motherboard @3.725GHz, so I'm in a good enough position to stay put until after Piledriver get's all sorted out. It seems I moved to an AM3+ motherboard and DDR3, at just the right time! LOL!!
Best Regards,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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28. August 2012 @ 15:05 |
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2 1/2 years that must be quite a late 550VX, IIRC they stopped making them a little while after that.
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28. August 2012 @ 15:37 |
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It might be a bit older. I'd have to remember how old my Raidmax case is as they were bought together. Probably have the invoice floating around somewhere :P
EDIT: Actually I recall running it as an AMD rig for a while. lol duh. X2 5000+ BE and 7750BE. Fun times :) So 3 years, a little more maybe.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. August 2012 @ 15:42
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28. August 2012 @ 17:21 |
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Originally posted by theonejrs:
Do you mind if I ask what is your friend going to use his computer for and which Bulldozer CPU does he plan on using? Is it for gaming, general purpose performance, or something else? Also, Piledriver CPUs seem to be launching soon (maybe not, but Tom's is getting spec sheets and such for it and from what I've heard, AMD has been saying either late 2012 or very early 2013 is when it launches), so maybe you could tell your friend about that. It's a very large improvement over Bulldozer and is considerably better than Phenom II even without the core-configuration *mod* that I've previously mentioned.
Blazorthon,
Would you by chance have a link for that mod. I would like to read up on it a bit myself. I have a 1090t on a GigaByte 990-XA motherboard @3.725GHz, so I'm in a good enough position to stay put until after Piledriver get's all sorted out. It seems I moved to an AM3+ motherboard and DDR3, at just the right time! LOL!!
Best Regards,
Russ
http://techreport.com/articles.x/21865
This is the best that I have. This is simply modified thread scheduling, not true disabling, and the improved thread scheduling tests had a lower frequency than the standard core configuration tests, yet they had a 10-20% performance advantage over the standard core configuration (usually closer to 20%).
Disabling one core per module would eliminate the sharing of resources within the module completely, a more thorough method than mere thread scheduling improvements, so it would probably have a somewhat greater impact in performance per Hz. It would also decrease power consumption greatly (think 30-40%) and that would increase the thermal headroom for overclocking the CPU frequency.
After all of that, you can also overclock the CPU/NB frequency that controls the L3 cache from its stock 2.2GHz up pretty significantly, further improving the performance per Hz of the CPU frequency.
Realistically, you could take an eight-core Bulldozer CPU and it can compete with even the K edition i5s in overclocking performance if you know what you're doing. It does effectively turn the eight core CPU into a quad-core CPU, but the lightly threaded performance quite literally skyrockets (as does efficiency) and that's more important for most games. This is only the beginning of what can be done. AMD's modular architecture has a lot of room for personal customization with these CPUs.
You can organize them specifically to focus on any performance target that you want (highly threaded, lightly threaded, or a mix with say two full modules and two modules that have only one active core). There is a lot that can be done and AMD doesn't get nearly enough credit for this (probably because those idiots deny this and deny the fact that they still can compete with Intel in performance, albeit not in performance per watt).
Given that even the Trinity APUs have a decent performance per Hz boost over the Bulldozer CPUs in their standard core configuration (something like 10-15%, pretty spot-on for AMD's estimations) and stock CPU/NB frequency, the Piledriver CPUs that do have L3 are probably a more than 25-30% improvement. That might be the difference between having the eight core FX CPUs compete with the i5s with Bulldozer and competing with the i7s even in highly threaded performance and beating them in lightly threaded performance with Piledriver. That's also ignoring the fact that Piledriver can clock higher than Bulldozer can at the same voltage, an even greater advantage.
AMD's not out of the game just yet for enthusiasts who know how to use their CPUs well even though they don't know it. The problem as I see it (and I'm sure many others do too) is that it shouldn't take enthusiasts jumping through hoops to get great performance from AMD. AMD should sell some CPUs that are like this by default. However, this is still an option and a pretty darned god one at that. It's difficult to beat the FX-8120 in performance per dollar when you consider everything that can be done with it.
Heck, doing these such tricks with the six-core FX CPUs would mean that they can soar past the similarly priced i3s and Pentiums. I find it pretty interesting.
I also have a Phenom II x6 1090T BE and I can say that although it's not as fun to mess around with as those Bulldozer CPUs seem to be, I agree, it is quite powerful. I would like to get an FX-8350 to replace my 1090T, but it's holding steady at over 4GHz with my Cooler Master Hyper 212 (that's the regular version, not a Plus or Evo, it's considerably weaker) without heating issues. I think that I could go farther, especially with a better cooler, but I don't want to push the voltage too far.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. August 2012 @ 17:27
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29. August 2012 @ 11:52 |
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I prefer wait for piledriver myself. I'm very tempted by either 1090t/1100t or even bulldozer (Given my encoding needs). If Piledriver is very soon on the horizon, I think it's worth the wait ;) Probably just as well, since I can't afford much right now. The second job has been very slow. Which allows me time to study Java language :D Once I have that, I'll move on to C Sharp, and then C++. But that could take a few years!
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29. August 2012 @ 12:30 |
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Remind me, what's the next AMD arch?
I heard that Piledriver is only going to be a c.10% benefit over Bulldozer, and that the next architecture will be the one to look out for...
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29. August 2012 @ 12:47 |
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After Piledriver will be Steamroller and after that is Excavator. Piledriver actually seems to be more like a 10-15% performance per Hz improvement while being able to hit much higher frequencies at the same power consumption, so actual performance improvement seems to be more than 20%. Trinity beats Bulldozer significantly and it doesn't even have L3 cache like Piledriver based AM3+ CPUs do. Steamroller and Excavator are both supposed to be big improvements, but Excavator is supposedly the biggest.
AMD might be able to kick Intel into gear to speed up their tick-tock cycle or at least make more improvements in each cycle. Steamroller and Excavator are supposedly going to alleviate the front-end bottle-neck of AMD's modular architecture so that the disabling core method that I've mentioned might not be necessary for improving per-core efficiency. On that note, it might make it even more effective, so we'll just have to wait and see.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29. August 2012 @ 13:06
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29. August 2012 @ 13:55 |
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Always said AMD could make a monster out of Bulldozer with a Phenom II-esque rework. Just have to wait and see if it's anywhere near as large an improvement.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29. August 2012 @ 13:55
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29. August 2012 @ 19:48 |
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GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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30. August 2012 @ 00:35 |
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I certainly like mine quite a bit! In my opinion, it's getting a bit long in the tooth. For me anyhow :p
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30. August 2012 @ 03:44 |
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Aye that's a good price :)
Will be patient for my 1090T for the time being. The one time I'm thankful for technology stagnation :P Only wish they had made more of them as they are, for the most part, much more powerful than Bulldozer.(for my uses anyway)
Granted OCing puts Bulldozer on a fairly level playing field as they clock like mad, but then a large amount of Thuban cores can do 4GHz+ as well :)
Would be interested in a Piledriver but that would require a new motherboard. Currently no AM3+ support :(
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30. August 2012 @ 04:34
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30. August 2012 @ 10:42 |
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Quite frankly, I may be interested in a new motherboard. Perhaps the Northbridge will run cooler on the next one! :S
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30. August 2012 @ 11:15 |
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Originally posted by Estuansis:
Aye that's a good price :)
Will be patient for my 1090T for the time being. The one time I'm thankful for technology stagnation :P Only wish they had made more of them as they are, for the most part, much more powerful than Bulldozer.(for my uses anyway)
Granted OCing puts Bulldozer on a fairly level playing field as they clock like mad, but then a large amount of Thuban cores can do 4GHz+ as well :)
Would be interested in a Piledriver but that would require a new motherboard. Currently no AM3+ support :(
Bulldozer has to clock about 20% higher than Phenom II to match it in integer performance per core. Like you said, it clocks like mad. Phenom II usually clocks a little over 4GHz, but Bulldozer can easily clock a little over 5GHz with the same core count cooler. I'd say that they can be pretty even, but Phenom II might be able to go a bit higher. There's no way for BD to beat Phenom II in Windows 7 without the core configuration mod that I've mentioned as far as I'm aware. In Windows 8, with the thread scheduling improvements, the playing field might be a little less level between them.
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30. August 2012 @ 11:16 |
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Originally posted by omegaman7:
Quite frankly, I may be interested in a new motherboard. Perhaps the Northbridge will run cooler on the next one! :S
Maybe. AMD boards seem to all have poor Northbridge cooling. Have any of you had a board that had a very well-cooled Northbridge?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30. August 2012 @ 11:16
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30. August 2012 @ 11:34 |
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LOL! Come to think of it, no...
The Nvidia northbridges especially, ran rather warm. I had more than two quit. I do have a NB fan, that I may pull from a board I was given :D Who knows how well that will work though.
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30. August 2012 @ 11:45 |
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The lifespan of nvidia chipsets could be measured in weeks. FTR, the heatsink (not chip) temperature of my nf650i in a well cooled case was 72ºC. How hot must the chip underneath have been? 41ºC according to the sensor...
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30. August 2012 @ 13:07 |
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My 680i got those temps easily with active cooling. The last good Nvidia chipset IMO was the Nforce 500 series. They learned a lot of lessons from Nforce 4, which was basically the de-facto AMD chipset for 939. They actually improved on it in every way. As of the last few generations though, AMD's and Intel's own chipsets are some of the best ever released.
My Northbridge is A-OK. Removing the Gigabyte logos and stuff from the heatsinks makes a few degrees difference.
The 790X-UD4, the board mine is based on, had a heatpipe. I should probably see about swapping the cooler from the dead board :)
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Can anyone recommend me a new PSU? The ol' 620HX is starting to read low on the +5v. Might explain the stability issues I've had at 3.8GHz. Currently sitting at 4.81 and dipping to 4.73 in games. 4.75 is the limit and this PSU used to sit at 4.95.
I know what to look for but not sure what brands are trustworthy in recent times. Reckon I should just bite the bullet and get a Seasonic? Which model?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139010
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151088
Currently looking at these two models. The Seasonic gets a fantastic review at SPCR and is apparently nothing but server-grade quality.
http://www.silentpcreview.com/Seasonic_X650
Might have to wait for work to pick up before I have the extra cash. Really wasn't expecting a parts replacement.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30. August 2012 @ 15:25
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30. August 2012 @ 15:59 |
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Originally posted by Blazorthon:
Originally posted by omegaman7:
Quite frankly, I may be interested in a new motherboard. Perhaps the Northbridge will run cooler on the next one! :S
Maybe. AMD boards seem to all have poor Northbridge cooling. Have any of you had a board that had a very well-cooled Northbridge?
Blazorthon,
I've always had some of the coolest temps on AD, and my case airflow is tailored and designed to keep itself clean. It's been well over a year since I installed the CoolIt R-120 LCS to replace a heatpipe Freezer 64, and besides doing a little dusting around the bottom of the case, it's never been cleaned yet.
As you can see, no temp problems here, NB or otherwise
One of the problems I ran into with liquid cooling is you have little or no air flow around the NB or the VRMs that you normally get with an air cooler. I added a 70mm fan from an aluminum block AMD cooler, that fits in between the plastic tightening knobs and the cover of the pump/heatsink very snugly. It may make a racket on the CPU cooler's aluminum block, but out in the open like it is, in spite of it's 3300 rpm, it's almost dead silent, and moves a lot of air.
It really doesn't matter what brand, either Intel or AMD. The NB has always been a cooling problem, for as long as I can remember. A few years back the trick was to buy an Antec 6 cfm 40mm fan and screw it right to the heatsink. It's the best NB cooler yet. Unfortunately, Antec stopped making them!
This should give you a chuckle though. These are specs for a 40mm fan. I couldn't live in a house with something that noisy. It's louder than my hair dryer! LOL!! The pitch alone would drive me right up a wall!
Fan Size
40mm
Bearing Type
2 Ball
RPM
19000 RPM
Air Flow
23.4 CFM
Noise Level
59.9 dBA
Best Regards,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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30. August 2012 @ 16:59 |
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59.9dba on a tiny fan... I don't think that me neighbors would let me keep that even if I could get myself to use something like that.
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30. August 2012 @ 17:47 |
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LOL! I'd never use something like that. Well... Perhaps. But I'd have to have my PC in a closet, or sound proofed area ;)
Cable management would be... interesting.
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30. August 2012 @ 17:47
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30. August 2012 @ 17:51 |
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Originally posted by theonejrs:
Fan Size
40mm
Bearing Type
2 Ball
RPM
19000 RPM
Air Flow
23.4 CFM
Noise Level
59.9 dBA
Best Regards,
Russ
If you want to know what those fans are used for, it's this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvX-p5Ml...etailpage#t=61s
These I believe, however, are only about the 12,000rpm versions.
On the PSU note, the Seasonic X units are about as good as they get these days. Pricey, but no compromise.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30. August 2012 @ 17:58
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31. August 2012 @ 07:35 |
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Don't think that I've posted this before.
Blast from the past (sort of).
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31. August 2012 @ 10:42 |
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Ha a Pentium MMX. My first computer ever XD
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
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