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burn without xbox
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smiff6969
Junior Member
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8. December 2004 @ 11:18 |
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But in response to your answer above why wouldn't read it?
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rvh104
Newbie
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8. December 2004 @ 11:20 |
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Hi dudes, can anyone explain why I can copy a copied xbox game (presumebly ftp method) but not an original using just a pc and dvd encrypter. What is the difference - fatx cant be used as an arguement for this one.
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smiff6969
Junior Member
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8. December 2004 @ 11:29 |
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I believe it all boils down to the fact that xbox origanals read arse about tit. Thats why a normal drive cannot be used to read. Now normal DVD rom drives can be put in xboxes and they will still play copies but not origanals so why can't an xbox dvd rom be put in a pc and then an origanal could be accessed arse about tit and an image created.
The image is then burnt onto a dvd -r the way any other disk is copied and the xbox mod chip allows it to be played.
This is why when you put a copy into a normal pc dvd rom drive it can now be accessed by the pc and copied to your hearts content it's reading as any other disk not arse about tit.
Sooooooo anyone want to try and make an image of a xbox origanal using a xbox dvdrom connected to a PC.
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rvh104
Newbie
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8. December 2004 @ 11:32 |
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Thanks but I need to logout now as I've got some xbox games to copy!
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thejacl
Junior Member
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8. December 2004 @ 12:30 |
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Quote:
The reason as i see it that it cannot be done wat mo with xbox games is because the drive reads in the opposite direction so the TOC is in a diferent place. when you then put the origanal in a pc drive it can't find the TOC because it's somewhere else and so makes up what it thinks is on the disk resulting in you getting the wrong size read back.
If that was the case then a. the drive wouldn't be able to read DVD movies cause they turn the same direction as any other DVD reader, unless you are assuming that the xbox DVD rom spins the other way for movies? Well I can tell you that that is not the case because you would hear it "realize" that it is a DVD movie and not a game and stop and start spinning the other way.
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If your pc couldn't access the Xbox drive because it's fatx then how the hell can you copy an already copied xbox game on a pc without using your xbox again then......
Notice how you have to patch the .xbe files before you can burn it to a DVD???
Smiff6969: I know what you are saying and it would be nice if that was the case, but unfortunatly it isn't. The DVD Rom in an xbox is no different than one you buy for a pc(for example the DVD roms in xbox's are either Samsung, Thompson or Phillips), and like any DVD OR CD Rom all it does is read ones and zeros. the combination of the ones and zeros determine what the contents of the disc is. To prove they are no different, here is a link to a set of instructions on How to Connect a normal PC DVD-drive on your Xbox:
http://www.xbox-scene.com/articles/dvddrive.php
There is only one satisfying way to boot a computer.
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Quadratic
Senior Member
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8. December 2004 @ 14:56 |
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No mate i'm on about putting a xbox dvd rom drive in a pc then creating an image of an origanal game instead of putting a copied game into pc dvd rom and making an image of a copied game
Why would you want to do that anyway?
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If that was the case then a. the drive wouldn't be able to read DVD movies cause they turn the same direction as any other DVD reader, unless you are assuming that the xbox DVD rom spins the other way for movies? Well I can tell you that that is not the case because you would hear it "realize" that it is a DVD movie and not a game and stop and start spinning the other way.
TECHNICALLY, the drive CAN'T read DVD movies on its own. You have to remember that you need that little attachment to go in the controller socket to read DVD. The little attachment has it's own bios and allows the Xbox to override the regular commands to read DVDs. Otherwise, it can't read DVDs.
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If your pc couldn't access the Xbox drive because it's fatx then how the hell can you copy an already copied xbox game on a pc without using your xbox again then......
Because your PC can't burn games like original copies are made. It burns them from outside in, like it was designed to. When Xbox games are made, they are burned from the INSIDE and then extend outside. That's why you need a special BIOS to allow the Xbox to read other discs.
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Smiff6969: I know what you are saying and it would be nice if that was the case, but unfortunatly it isn't. The DVD Rom in an xbox is no different than one you buy for a pc(for example the DVD roms in xbox's are either Samsung, Thompson or Phillips), and like any DVD OR CD Rom all it does is read ones and zeros. the combination of the ones and zeros determine what the contents of the disc is. To prove they are no different, here is a link to a set of instructions on How to Connect a normal PC DVD-drive on your Xbox:
Oh really? Is that the case? I don't think so. They made be made by the same COMPANY, but they are DEFINITELY NOT the same. Read the bottom of the very link you gave:
NOTE:
1. You can NOT play original discs this way , you will have to reconnect the IDE-cable to the Xbox DVD-drive if you want to play an original games.
But the Thompson, Phillips, and Samsung drives in the xbox CAN read originals. Something's different buddy.
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thejacl
Junior Member
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9. December 2004 @ 05:10 |
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TECHNICALLY, the drive CAN'T read DVD movies on its own. You have to remember that you need that little attachment to go in the controller socket to read DVD. The little attachment has it's own bios and allows the Xbox to override the regular commands to read DVDs. Otherwise, it can't read DVDs.
If you put a DVD into your xbox without the controller and adapter, IT WILL STILL READ...TRY IT! You just have no control over the movie. The movies still load to the menu. I know they load cause before I bought the controller I could watch movies that played from the beginning right off the bat instead of going to the menu first.
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Oh really? Is that the case? I don't think so. They made be made by the same COMPANY, but they are DEFINITELY NOT the same. Read the bottom of the very link you gave:
All that is, buddy, is the system doing a hardware check. Like they say at Xbox-scene the xbox is very picky as to what associated to the xbox, especially hardware. So i agree, that there is a difference as far as authenticity, however, all I was saying is that there is not MUCH difference between the 2 drives, and that the drives DO NOT spin the oposite direction for movies/games.
There is only one satisfying way to boot a computer.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9. December 2004 @ 05:19
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smiff6969
Junior Member
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9. December 2004 @ 07:51 |
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Let me just make things a bit clearer as i belive i've probably not explained myself very well.
I didn't mean the drives spin in the opisite direction, ive never said that. I said they read in the opposite direction sorry to be confusing but what i mean is that they read from outside to inside and not the same as all other drives reading inside to outside.
Anyway let me go through all that ive been trying to say (probably not to well).
Xbox drives read xbox origanals from the out side of the disk to the inside of the disk and all other disks the standard way inside to outside. We know this much as the drive will play movies, music all without any modchip or dvd plugin remote modules you can test this out for yourself.
All other pc drives read from inside to outside only.
My next point is that reading and accessing a dvd or cd from a pc can only be done if the file format is compatable. But copying a dvd by raw data (iso) method does not require you to read or access the disk. when you do this all you do is copy the 0's and 1's from one disk and put them in exactly the same place on another disk, you are looking at data in it's rawest form so file structure does not matter. This can be tested by the following, take a linux software cd, put it into a windows pc and copy the disk using raw data method then put the copy in a linux pc and it will work. What you can't do is access the cd copy a file off onto another disk as this would require file structures to be the same. So fatx is not a reason for pc's not copying origanals 0's and 1's don't have any kind of structure there just 0's and 1's.
This is why i believe origanals cannot be copied on a pc.
Xbox origanals read outside to inside
Normal disks read inside to outside
Both spin in the same direction.
only an xbox dvd rom drive can read in both ways
If you put an xbox origanal in a pc and copy it I believe you get a perfect copy of an xbox game (the raw data is read inside to outside then copied inside to outside) but with no boot secter on it(drives cannot write to this part of the disk only pressing machines can do this). So the copy you have made needs to be read from outside to inside just like the origanal. BUT Because the copy has no boot secter I believe the xbox dvd rom drive thinks the copy is a standard dvd disk(not xbox origanal) and tries to read it the normal way inside to outside so the data ends up back to front and the toc cannot be found.
The ONLY time an an xbox dvd rom reads outside to in is if it knows the disk is an xbox origanal and since the only thing diferent to the copy just made and your origanal is the boot secter.
SO it will not work the data doesn't make sense
but
If you read the xbox origanal from an xbox you read the data from OUTSIDE TO INSIDE then the file is sent to a pc and copied INSIDE TO OUTSIDE meaning you have not created a perfect copy. the data is read from one way on the origanal and another on your copy, plus ther is still no boot secter. this means your copy needs to be played INSIDE TO OUTSIDE for the data to make sense to your xbox.
You put the disk in your xbox and it scans for a boot secter, it doesn't find it and treats it like any other disk and reads INSIDE TO OUTSIDE meaning the data the correct way around and this works great.
You can then take that copy and copy that OK as the data is all ready reversed no probs.
Let me recap.
xbox origanal in PC reads in to out.
You then copy in to out
so both need to be read outside to in as they are identical bar the boot secter
because xbox knows it's not an origanal (no boot secter). it reads as a normal disk type inside to out.
but the data is back to front
-------------------------
Read a xbox origanal on xbox outside to in
send to pc
write inside to out
one disk is opposite to other they are not the same. the data is the same but they are wrote in two diferent ways
you then put the copy in xbox.
no boot secter seen so reads as normal disk inside to out.
the disk works
Because you have already reversed the data during the read process, it works.
______________________
Already copied game in a pc (with already reversed data).
read INside to out
copy inside to out
exact copy so it works.
Sorry to be long winded but i think this is why.
Don't just say no and post back please think about it for a while first it makes sense.
If you can get a xbox drive into a pc you might be able to not use the xbox itself.
What i don't know is is it the firmware on the xbox dvd rom drive itself that controls the outside to inside reading metheds upon detection of origanal xbox disks
or
Is it software on the xbox itself that controls it.
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smiff6969
Junior Member
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9. December 2004 @ 07:53 |
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please excuse my spelling when i type fast all sorts of shit come on the screen
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thejacl
Junior Member
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9. December 2004 @ 09:42 |
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smiff6969:
Well said. I read, I thought, and I think I agree with 95% of what you said. The only thing that I can't peice together is:
Quote:
If you put an xbox origanal in a pc and copy it I believe you get a perfect copy of an xbox game (the raw data is read inside to outside then copied inside to outside) but with no boot secter on it(drives cannot write to this part of the disk only pressing machines can do this)...
Thing is, when I first got my DVD burner I definetly knew nothing about burning Xbox games, therefore assumed like all newbies do that it would be like burning a CD. When I attampted to burn it (even in Raw Mode) it only burned something like 13MB... I don't understand what that 13MB consists of. But for sure you cannot burn a xbox game with just a pc dvd burner.
Let me know what you think.
There is only one satisfying way to boot a computer.
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smiff6969
Junior Member
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9. December 2004 @ 10:36 |
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Thanks for your post I too have seen this 13 or 14meg file when copying the only thing I can possibly say is that maybe it's not all down to the disk being back to front and having a bootsecter.
lets say that if your pc try's to access it there is no way it can understand fatx so the disk size would be wrong (14 meg say).
But when you try to do a raw copy from an origanal in a pc drive what size is the iso?
if you try to access a dvd movie on pc that too gives wierd file sizes back. But you can still copy it in raw format and get it to play ok again probably down to wierd formats don't forget you have to load codecs onto a pc before you can play a dvd on it.
If you don't the pc can't understand whats on the disk
same thing but we don't have anything on a pc to understand fatx
Have you ever tried making a copy of an origanal on a pc then checked the disk to see how much space was used? You would be able to see if the disk is megs or gigs.
I'm just guessing at this point now. I think though if you could get a xbox drive on a pc and the pc bios detected it ok, windows loaded generic drivers ok and then you could access the drive and possibly put a pc disk in to see if you could access it (the xbox drive can read both xbox and pc disks). The possibly you could put an xbox origanal it and and try to take a raw data image from it. We would then know if the xbox software controlled the 'wacky xbox origanal reading method' or the xbox rom drive does.
I'm not sure but i think the xbox rom drive might, because you can fit a normal rom drive to an xbox (after bios mod) but it won't play origanals because the new rom drive you fitted doesn't have the special firmware microsft wrote for the 'wacky xbox origanal reading method' on it.
The xbox drive can be connected to a pc, it has an IDE port on it but no standard power connecter. I work in electronics and believe I could easily rewire the power out wires and button eject wires that come out the back of the drive (yellow wires) and interface it to a push switch and a standard pc power connector.
what do you think mate?
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Quadratic
Senior Member
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9. December 2004 @ 14:07 |
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If you put a DVD into your xbox without the controller and adapter, IT WILL STILL READ...TRY IT! You just have no control over the movie. The movies still load to the menu. I know they load cause before I bought the controller I could watch movies that played from the beginning right off the bat instead of going to the menu first.
Well I don't know what kind of DVD drive you have in your xbox, but the Thompson wouldn't do it.
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fadedindi
Junior Member
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9. December 2004 @ 14:11 |
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Yeah, I put a DVD in mine and it doesnt play unless I use XBMC (i'm too cheap to buy a that DVD doggle.)
-Dave
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smiff6969
Junior Member
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9. December 2004 @ 21:37 |
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mine works too mate iv'e watched several dvd movies and i don't have a controller and little dvd plugin
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smiff6969
Junior Member
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10. December 2004 @ 10:27 |
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I gues this answers my question the xbox dvd rom drive is responsible for the booting of the original disks not software on the pc
visit
http://www.llamma.com/xbox/ShoppingCart/samsung_dvd_drive_Xbox.htm
these people explain how to fit a standard pc dvd rom drive that is modified to read xbox origanals.
Wonder what that would do in a pc???
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smiff6969
Junior Member
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10. December 2004 @ 10:29 |
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sorry people i ment
I guess this answers my question the xbox dvd rom drive is responsible for the booting of the original disks not software on the xbox
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thejacl
Junior Member
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10. December 2004 @ 13:12 |
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Its a combination of both, cause then people would only have to do modifications to the DVD Rom.
There is only one satisfying way to boot a computer.
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kramster
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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10. December 2004 @ 14:56 |
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sorry if i sound thick but if i understand right you can copy xbox backups straight onto your pc,and burn like a normal dvd if this is the case ,what software do i need or can i just use DVD Decrypter to make iso file,please could you point me in the right direction.
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Quadratic
Senior Member
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10. December 2004 @ 20:01 |
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sorry if i sound thick but if i understand right you can copy xbox backups straight onto your pc,and burn like a normal dvd if this is the case ,what software do i need or can i just use DVD Decrypter to make iso file,please could you point me in the right direction.
DVD Decrypter is fine, or Nero.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 10. December 2004 @ 20:05
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smiff6969
Junior Member
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11. December 2004 @ 02:04 |
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Sorry guys let me re-word what i said.
I know the xbox is responsible for booting games (originals).
But the xbox dvdrom drive is the only thing responsible for reading originals outside to in
This is proved by.
Putting a normal pc dvd rom drive in results in everything booting but originals(outside to in disks).
Putting a normal pc dvd rom drive in with modded firmware on it results in everything including originals(outside to in disks) booting.
the fact is that you have to mod the xbox before it can take standard pc drives i know but until you mod the firmware in the pc dvd rom drive itself, it will not read originals.
Once it has been modded it can play originals.
This tells us that it is the firmware in the rom drive that controls the outside to in reading method.
the way i read it is the mod to the xbox is to get the pc drive working with the xbox and the mod to the rom drive firmware is to control the outside to in method.
So an xbox rom drive might not be able to work on a pc because the bios may need modding BUT a pc rom drive with modded firmware would be able to be recognised by pc bios, then the firmware on the drive may read xbox originals outside in.
i think it would be easier to get a standard modded pc rom drive working than an xbox drive on a pc.
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Quadratic
Senior Member
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11. December 2004 @ 05:06 |
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But why waste money? It's going to be the same result to just FTP into your xbox. It takes me about 10 minutes to backup a average size Xbox game. Plus, you have to worry about your investment. Modding the firmware could permanately damage the DVD-drive, and then you're stuck crying because you spent a $100 bucks and screwed up.
If you have spare dvd-rom drives, then by all means try it.
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smiff6969
Junior Member
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12. December 2004 @ 10:35 |
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i don't know where you buy your dvd drives from but i can get them for about £20 a new chip would cost me squat as i could get one from work and i'll use the programmers there to program the chip with the firmware on.
So all in all it would cost about around $30 US you call that an investment plus it means i don't have to connect my xbox up leaving a lead trailing across my lounge so my daughter and dog can chew the lead and trip over it or i could spend £100 on a wirless router hmmmmm
for the safety of my daughter and the choice of it being quicker without ftp i'll go for my cheaper option if it can be done.
so why would i be crying dude..........
does your life just consist of you coming on forums and telling people there wrong mate at least try and get some proper facts before you tell people why there wrong
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Quadratic
Senior Member
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12. December 2004 @ 19:39 |
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does your life just consist of you coming on forums and telling people there wrong mate at least try and get some proper facts before you tell people why there wrong
I'm not telling you you're wrong. Where in ANY of my posts does it say that you're wrong? I only questioned you as to why you would want to do that? If it's any offense to you, then I'm sorry.I can't get DVD drives for $30 bucks,and I don't do programming for a living, and I don't have a lounge or a daughter. So I'm sorry if I came off as being arrogant or anything. And for me, it would be an investment, because I'm not loaded with a lot of money.
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stereofan
Newbie
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30. December 2004 @ 06:28 |
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I'm confused. If the only difference between a modded xbox drive and a dvdrom drive is the direction of the read, then why can't a raw format copy of an original disk be written back to another disk in reverse? Wouldn't that do it? That should be simple enough. Also, someone please enlighten me as to this pressed disk boot sector business; and tell me what role the xbox mod chip plays in adjusting for the difference between original and copy if such is the case.
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