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Official PS3 vs. Xbox 360 vs. N. Revolution
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shola
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25. May 2005 @ 18:01 |
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To tell you the truth i just came on this thread and i been reading it and im sorry to say that yea 00Gravity you do sound like Zinn it's not that i care but damn it's likie he came from the grave of Inactive lol im just sayin i found a Zinn post just like yours please i don't think anybody would care if you re- registered i mean alot of people do it. So what do your thing man. Ok ok back to the game situation im going to have to go with both of them i don't care about all this stuff there putting up i mean im going to have the money to get both so who cares if somebody like ps3 or xbox more than the other im not a MS fanboy or a PS3 fanboy im all about the games i know there going to have diff. ones and also some same for each system so ill get both. And let me say this you can't convince a PS3 lover to buy a xbox and the same goes for the PS3. Really get what you want or what you can afford. But also let me say this don't get me wrong there might be someone that's new to all this so yea i guess this thread is ok. But to tell the truth WHO really Cares???
Shola Johnson
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00Gravity
Junior Member
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25. May 2005 @ 18:14 |
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That's what i've been tryin' to say, that's why i'm not like that zinn guy. he's more commpulsive.
me, i'm an immpuslive thinker. the ps3 still have titles such as tekken, and GTA. the games evrybody love. I have never in my life met someone who dislikes GTA. This is why i'm getting the ps3. don't get me wrong though, i'm still getting the 360, it's just that since the ps has been out longer, i already know what to expect from them. and they promises some of the greatest titles ever. hopefully ms will do the same, but if not. i'll have the ps3 too so it won't matter. once nintendo reveals more i might get that as well ;).
*thinking* ( i can't believe they think i'm someone else, are we that much a like?.......)
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2kwic
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25. May 2005 @ 18:19 |
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Damn Shola you took the words right out of my mouth.But the only difference is that i love playstation more. yea xbox might be cheaper but i don't care im going to get the PS3 no matter what and i think people got there mind pretty much made up so there no need to get mad. The only thing i don't like it when people think they know everything. not talking to you 00g so don't even reply to me. come on peole already know that when you have comp. of course your going to say your better MS say it better than PS3 and the PS3 would say it's better than MS so you really don't know what to believe.
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dammsaint
Newbie
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25. May 2005 @ 18:42 |
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As i see all of you are spending your time because in video games what you see is dont what you get. we have to wait the launch of both consoles and play many games.
i allready have the 3 consoles, and i like halo, halo 2, ninja gaiden (the best of all games for me), those games are for xbox only. i like mario kart, resident evil 4, zelda ww, those games are only for nintendo. god of war! uffff exelent game, final fantasy X, ect.
the point is just have fun, each conse have diferent games and use, all consoles are great.
here i see pleople writing things without now anything, i read this on the first page :
"Xbox 360 only has three 32-bit cores at 3.2Ghz. The cell processor coming on the workstations from IBM is said (by sony) to use the same processor. This processor is a four core 9 cell cpu operating at ">4Ghz", the ninth cell is 64-bit, sweet, but a single 64-bit compatible cell may have no place on the PS3"
thats no true, the xbox has 3 procesors, they called cores, the ps3 have 1 procesor with 7 cores, cores as the pentium 4 hipertreading technology (2 cores). ps3 has an advantage as far as floating points talks about, but the xbox has more processing power. (I am not defending to neither single I am clarifying).
wait for the launching and you enjoy all!!!
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00Gravity
Junior Member
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25. May 2005 @ 21:18 |
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well put 2kwic and dammsaint, i believe we have no choice but to wait and see as well. my plan is to just get the 360 for christmas, and do something constructive during the summer to buy the ps3 when it comes out.
ps: does anyone knows the release date on the revolution
do i really sound like zinn, i mean come on.... how bizzare is that
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 25. May 2005 @ 21:36
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velascoj2
Junior Member
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25. May 2005 @ 22:00 |
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As far " Thefacts" previous explanation: Well I do agree with most of it. However If I'm think correctly his facts on the cell processor are not correct( I could be wrong) True that cell was mostly design to push huge amounts of floating point and conjunction of the gpu to be able to process more sheders than xbox on graphics texture equations. However His explanation of rsx using the Ultra 6800 as a base for hypothesis on rsx final performance seem real enough. But there is a discrepancy that his math seem good when adding the cpu and gpu bandwidth to an overall performance of 48gb. But sony claim to reach instead 35gbs ( doesn't add up doesn?t it). Sony had also claimed that the 6800 not be used as comparison since the generation of the rsx gpu is very drastically different that 6800 that negating the validity of the assumption previously stated. The gpu was strictly custom design to compensate for the short coming of cell and that utilizing the cpu as what it does best( Sound all good but all of it can also be bull by Sony). The fact that does not seem correct is that the cell 8 spe's 1 of the 8 for redundancy, all have their individual 256k l2 cache adding extra 512k cache to double the amount of cache the xbox has( Kuturagi did show a diagram of the cell showing the individual ram placement on the processor, but I could be wrong). True that sony messed up with ps2 but they did Deliver what they promised with the psx. Every company over hypes, so does Microsoft, Nintendo, Sega it's call marketing) I admit that did not know that the gpu of the xbox has 330 M transistors, from what I read it only had 150M transistors ( I may have to look back on that one).
It is true how is the ps3 gpu get a performance of 2 teraflops, honestly I do not know, But at this point no one knows since the info on the gpu is ulimately inconclusive( Maybe Sony knows that the rest of the numbers are indeed of lower spec to xbox, but still speculation). Ati graphic card does have more info revealed though.
k on the most efficient developer friendly as possible
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velascoj2
Junior Member
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25. May 2005 @ 22:05 |
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apologize for my english grammar on previous post, but I rushed through it.
cheers
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00Gravity
Junior Member
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25. May 2005 @ 22:50 |
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So what you're saying is noone but sony knows how powerful the ps3 truly is.
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rap4life
Suspended permanently
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25. May 2005 @ 23:43 |
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So what you're saying is noone but sony knows how powerful the ps3 truly is.
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i think he is saying that sony could be hiding how much more or less powerful that the PS3 is over the xbox360.
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sony has only $15 million left
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its that low
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i like the fact that the 360 can play music with using Live and chating. i like more that i can play all my fav games with my fav music
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i want fable 2 do u know when its coming out? not fable for PC
does anyone no if Maddan 2006 is coming out on PS3?
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will the new xbox have a RPG game out buy its release date?
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Strazza
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25. May 2005 @ 23:53 |
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wat do you think about the next gen controllers. in my opinion the ps3 ones look really uncomfortable and probably wouldnt be very good for fps games (my favourite game type). on the other hand the 360s controllers look perfect for pretty much anything as far as i can tell. just my opinion.
ps. i think that the xbox 360 will end up being the top console
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rap4life
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26. May 2005 @ 00:28 |
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That's what i've been tryin' to say, that's why i'm not like that zinn guy. he's more commpulsive.
me, i'm an immpuslive thinker. the ps3 still have titles such as tekken, and GTA. the games evrybody love. I have never in my life met someone who dislikes GTA. This is why i'm getting the ps3. don't get me wrong though, i'm still getting the 360, it's just that since the ps has been out longer, i already know what to expect from them. and they promises some of the greatest titles ever. hopefully ms will do the same, but if not. i'll have the ps3 too so it won't matter. once nintendo reveals more i might get that as well ;).
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did GTA vice city come to xbox and GTA SA is come to xbox in like 2-3 weeks with better graphics.
And tekken is not a good game its not even on the same page as GTA and Halo
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I have Halo, got it late and it had demos, if u get a game later it could be better.
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rap4life
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26. May 2005 @ 00:35 |
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wat do you think about the next gen controllers. in my opinion the ps3 ones look really uncomfortable and probably wouldnt be very good for fps games (my favourite game type). on the other hand the 360s controllers look perfect for pretty much anything as far as i can tell. just my opinion.
ps. i think that the xbox 360 will end up being the top console
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agree with xbox360 will be at the top.
i dont like the ps2 controllers, the PS3 controllers
look bad. 360 controllers look worse the xbox controllers.
i like the white and black buttons.
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Senior Member
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26. May 2005 @ 05:09 |
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Like I said before, Sony was put in a real bind because the one real strength of the PS2 was the dual-shock controller, but they had to change the design becasue they were sued. So low and behold they came out with the boomerang design that looks unconfortable, but Im sure sony is not stupid and it should be very confortable , also, it does not look very compact.
the 360 controller on the other hand looks very well thought out. The put the white and black button where it should be, but keept the trigger buttons (which will be awesome for fps games). The 360 button is awesome and I like the idea you can power the machine through the 360 button. my only gripe is the start and back buttons. I liked the S-Controller design, but this controller is supposed to be smaller (and Lighter) than the S-Controller so Im assuming it wont be uncomfortable to hit those buttons.
The real wildcard here is the Revolution controller. I know there are no pics as of yet, but because the ability to download all of the NES - N64 games, it is going to be interesting on its design.
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velascoj2
Junior Member
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26. May 2005 @ 05:20 |
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I personaly never liked the ps controller. xbox is not very good either. But I do like the look of the 360 (the system does look better as well) over the ps3(looks to be unconfortable.
cheers
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kanum
Junior Member
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26. May 2005 @ 07:42 |
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subscribing to thisa
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00Gravity
Junior Member
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26. May 2005 @ 08:43 |
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whoa, whoa, whoa whoa.... don't mess with my tekken, talk about anything else, but not tekken. you can say what ever you want about me or even my family, but not tekken. that game got a 8 and a 9 without online play, and the levels wasn't like doa. and i think that's pretty amazing. people are getting tired of gta, and did you see tekken 6? my god man, to bad it was a cut scene. but that is in doubt the best 3-d fighting game. virtua fighter has to many unoriginal characters, and doa copied all of it's characters from tekken and virtua fighter. tekken has the most original characters and each character has the at least 60 moves, most have 100! now a fighting game that can do that with over 30 characters, and put the arcade versions of tekken 1, 2, 3, and have a mini game on it all at once, that's some hardcore shit.
but back on subject, 15 million is little because they still must buy evreything again to make more ps3's, eventually they, will or will not run out of money. and the dual shock 2 controller was the original ps controller with 2 analogs!
Sony, i hope for the best but i don't think you goin' make it, not the way you'll be shivering and shaking on the pavement..
i like the front of the ps3, until they showed the rest of it, and people said the 360 looks like some sky box thing in europe. i live in stl though. and people said that the ps3 will be bigger than the 360 and that the 360 will be the size of the ps2! is this true anyone
oh yea almost forgot, rap4life, sports games come out on all systems.
some may have have special features for certain consoles like nba street v3 had the mario bros. on gamecube
does anyone knows when the nr is coming out?????????
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. May 2005 @ 08:52
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00Gravity
Junior Member
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26. May 2005 @ 09:36 |
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since i posted a whole bunch of 360 info i thought it would be fair if did the same for the ps3
A Sub 40,000 Yen price has been mooted by Japanese website, Impress PC Watch, indicating that PS3 will be priced at the same level as both PS1 and PS2 at launch.
Both the PlayStation and PlayStation 2 launched at 39,800 Yen (294 Euro at today's conversion rates) when they arrived in the Far East, while the Xbox and the GameCube both launched at lower prices - 34,800 Yen (257 Euro) and 25,000 Yen (185 Euro) respectively.
Now, a report over at Impress PC Watch is indicating that Sony Computer Entertainment has cited a price point of less than 40,000 Yen for the PS3 launch in conversations with its business partners.
That would certainly seem to indicate that the traditional 39,800 Yen price point could be adhered to, and would bring the console in significantly lower than the 50,000 Yen (370 Euro) price point quoted by Japanese newspaper Mainichi Daily News last week.
Sony Computer Entertainment president Ken Kutaragi has revealed the true purpose of PlayStation 3, further explaining the functionality of the console and its place in home entertainment.
Speaking to Impress PC Watch, the SCE boss boldly stated that PS3 "is not a game machine", going on to proclaim that Sony has "never once called it a game machine".
According to Kutaragi, the machine is to be an "entertainment supercomputer" that, unlike other computers, which are invariably built primarily for other purposes, is designed to deliver the best all-round entertainment experience yet seen.
"PCs that are currently available have been created as work tools," Kutaragi explains. "They've begun selling computers with media playback capabilities, such as the Media Center PC, but those just imitate the functions of home electronics. It's not like those machines have been created solely for entertainment.
"On the other hand, PS3 has been created as a computer for entertainment. Entertainment refers to a lot of things, and not just to games. PS3 will be able to provide powerful functions for all forms of entertainment."
Kutaragi also explains that PS3 is the product SCE has been building up to over the years with the release of its previous machines.
"We haven't been creating our PlayStations for the sake of games," he explains. "Our belief, and the motivation behind running our company, has been to [apply] the power of computers to entertainment and enjoyment.
"We equipped the original PlayStation with a 3D graphics chip, and we equipped PS2 with the Emotion Engine. PS3 isn't designed to lean towards games. It's not a computer for children. In the sense that our goal has been [to design] a computer that's meant for entertainment, you could say that the original PlayStation and PlayStation 2 had existed as steps towards PlayStation 3.
"PS3 is the product we have been aiming for since the establishment of SCEI."
Comic book movies and games seem to be big money these days and here we have anouther game that has come out of The Darkness.
Based on the best-selling Top Cow comic book, The Darkness casts players as Jackie Estacado, a fearless Mafia hitman for the Franchetti crime family who is suddenly possessed by the terrifying and spectacular powers of The Darkness. Throughout the game, players must learn to control and harness The Darkness power in order to overthrow the vicious mob boss and fulfill their destiny.
The Darkness features a seamless and unique blend of modern crime drama and supernatural horror through first and third-person, non-linear gameplay. Utilizing the Starbreeze engine for next generation consoles, The Darkness features single and online multi-player action across highly realistic environments.
"We are excited to have secured Starbreeze, a highly talented and respected team, to develop one of our first titles for the next generation of video game consoles," said Jesse Sutton, president of Majesco. "Combining the top-tier development talent and technology of Starbreeze with the compelling content of Top Cow's The Darkness comic book series provides a solid foundation for success."
Union Entertainment, a feature film and video game production company, packaged the deal which includes Paul Jenkins, a seminal writer in The Darkness comic book series, who will provide game story and dialogue.
"The Darkness" live action film, produced by Platinum Studios and Dimension Films, is estimated for release in 2007.
A small preview of the game was shown at E3 on the Xbox360 platform. It featured a very dark backalley city setting along with a demon creature crawling from building to building. Then finally it zoomed onto Jackie Estacado's glowing eyes with the moon shining in the background. Dark indeed
We will have more on The Darkeness as it develops.
While speaking to News.com on the last day of E3, Julian Eggebrecht, president of the San Rafael developer Factor 5, the company responsible for the Rogue Sqaudron series, said his company is now creating games solely for the PlayStation 3.
"I was shocked by how powerful the new consoles are," he told News.com. "They should really free our development." Eggebrecht said the power of the PS3's Cell CPU was the deciding factor, as it will let Factor 5 create games closer to virtual reality.
Eggbrecht's comments come little more than a year after Factor 5, which had developed almost exclusively for the GameCube, announced it would no longer make games for the games console. At the time, he downplayed speculation the studio would abandon Nintendo. "We are extremely excited about both DS and GCNext, so any talk of us abandoning Nintendo platforms altogether is just not true," apparently speaking too soon.
CPU
Cell Processor
PowerPC-base Core @3.2GHz
1 VMX vector unit per core
512KB L2 cache
7 x SPE @3.2GHz
7 x 128b 128 SIMD GPRs
7 x 256KB SRAM for SPE
* 1 of 8 SPEs reserved for redundancy
total floating point performance: 218 GFLOPS
GPU
RSX @550MHz
1.8 TFLOPS floating point performance
Full HD (up to 1080p) x 2 channels
Sound
Dolby 5.1ch, DTS, LPCM, etc. (Cell- base processing)
Memory
256MB XDR Main RAM @3.2GHz 256MB GDDR3 VRAM @700MHz
System Bandwidth
Main RAM 25.6GB/s
VRAM 22.4GB/s
RSX 20GB/s (write) + 15GB/s (read)
SB< 2.5GB/s (write) + 2.5GB/s (read)
System Floating Point Performance
2 TFLOPS
Storage
Detachable 2.5" HDD slot x 1
I/O
USB Front x 4, Rear x 2 (USB2.0)
Memory Stick standard/Duo, PRO x 1
SD standard/mini x 1
CompactFlash (Type I, II) x 1
Communication
Ethernet (10BASE-T, 100BASE-TX, 1000BASE-T) x 3 (input x 1 + output x 2)
Wi-Fi IEEE 802.11 b/g
Bluetooth 2.0 (EDR)
Controller
Bluetooth (up to 7)
USB 2.0 (wired)
Wi-Fi (PSP)
Network (over IP)
AV Output
Screen size:
480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p
HDMI:
HDMI out x 2
Analog:
AV MULTI OUT x 1
Digital Audio:
DIGITAL OUT (OPTICAL) x 1
Disc Media
CD:
PlayStation CD-ROM, PlayStation 2 CD-ROM, CD-DA, CD-DA (ROM), CD-R, CD-RW, SACD, SACD Hybrid (CD layer), SACD HD, DualDisc, DualDisc (audio side), DualDisc (DVD side)
DVD:
PlayStation 2 DVD-ROM, PlayStation 3 DVD-ROM, DVD-Video, DVD-ROM, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R, DVD+RW
Blu-ray Disc:
PlayStation 3 BD-ROM, BD-Video, BD-ROM, BD-R, BD-RE
The PlayStation 3 Cell Chip
The PS3 Cell
The PlayStation 3's CPU is a revolutionary new chip codenamed "Cell?. It is being developed by an alliance between Sony, Toshiba and IBM. The system will use chip-to-chip interface technology and memory technology from the Rambus group.
Cell's first public demonstration has been announced for the 2005 E³ conference, while the first technical details were released at the February 2005 International Solid-State Circuits Conference (ISSCC). Patent applications have also given us valuable information regarding the Cell chip?s architecture.
The CPU's supposed distributed processing features have lead to speculation that many items in the home, with differing numbers of Cell chips, can pool their power.
Early versions of the chip will be 90-nm, with a change to a 65-nm process, if cost and performance allow. Abstracts from presentations at the ISSCC, show the Cell processor running at 4.6 Ghz.
In December 2004, Nvidia announced that they have made a multi-year agreement with SCEI to develop the PlayStation 3's GPU, which is a custom variant of their next-generation graphics processor. In fact, they had worked for two years on the chip before making the announcement. They were previously responsible for the GPU in the Xbox console.
The 'Cell' chip which will consist of 234 million transistors, and have a die size of 221mm sqaured. A single Cell is theoretically capable of achieving a maximum of 256 billion floating-point operations per second (GFLOPS). This astounding single precision (32bit) floating point performance has been achieved by using a new radical architecture.
The Cell chip uses a highly parallel architecture with a total of 9 cores. These cores consist of a custom general purpose PowerPC processor core which is connected to 8 "synergistic processing elements" or SPE?s for short though a central bus called the element interface bus [EIS].
The PPC core is the brains and the SPE?s are the main workers in this design. Unlike some other parallel processors the Cell can be clocked very high, in fact with voltages ranging from 0.9 to 1.3 volts it can reach clock speeds of 3.2 to 5.2GHz. At 4GHz each SPE can achieve a theoretical maximum of 32GFLOPS.
Some developers have hinted that they would like to make games on the next generation consoles, others have confirmed that they are already under development. i have listed all of these titles below which i believe will be appearing on the PS3 console.
2 days 2 Vegas - Steel Monkeys
Avalon - Climax
An 'NHL' Ice Hockey game - Page 44 Studios
Dark Sector - DigitalExtremes
Demonik -
Elder Scrolls IV - Bethesda Softworks
Fifa Soccer 2006 - EA - Gamespot Article
Fight Night Round 3 -
Gran Turismo 5 - Polyphony
Indiana Jones -
Killzone - Midway
King Kong -
Mortal Kombat 7 - Midway
MotorStorm -
Metal Gear Solid 4 - Konami
Possession - Blitz Games
Quake 4 - Id
S.T.A.L.K.E.R - THQ
Tekken 6 - Namco
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 06 -
The Getaway 3 - Team Bondi
Unknown title - Surreal Software
World Rally Championship - Evolution Studio
http://www.ps3portal.com/?view=article&article=124
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. May 2005 @ 09:41
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dammsaint
Newbie
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26. May 2005 @ 10:37 |
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ummm almost people here are writing to defend the ps3 until the launch, someones without now anything about it.
please read carefully this, and later post your opinions
There are three critical performance aspects of a console:
Central Processing Unit (CPU) performance.
The Xbox 360 CPU architecture has three times the general purpose processing power of the Cell.
Graphics Processing Unit (GPU) performance
The Xbox 360 GPU design is more flexible and it has more processing power than the PS3 GPU.
Memory System Bandwidth
The memory system bandwidth in Xbox 360 exceeds the PS3's by five times.
The Xbox 360's CPU has more general purpose processing power because it has three general purpose cores, and Cell has just one.
Cell's claimed advantage is on streaming floating point work which is done on its seven DSP processors.
The Xbox 360 GPU has more processing power than the PS3's. In addition, its innovated features contribute to overall rendering performance.
Xbox 360 has 278.4 GB/s of memory system bandwidth. The PS3 has less than one-fifth of Xbox 360's (48 GB/s) of total memory system bandwidth.
DETAILED ANALYSIS OF PERFORMANCE SPECIFICATIONS
CPU
The Xbox 360 processor was designed to give game developers the power that they actually need, in an easy to use form. The Cell processor has impressive streaming floating-point power that is of limited use for games.
The majority of game code is a mixture of integer, floating-point, and vector math, with lots of branches and random memory accesses. This code is best handled by a general purpose CPU with a cache, branch predictor, and vector unit.
The Cell's seven DSPs (what Sony calls SPEs) have no cache, no direct access to memory, no branch predictor, and a different instruction set from the PS3's main CPU. They are not designed for or efficient at general purpose computing. DSPs are not appropriate for game programming.
Xbox 360 has three general purpose CPU cores. The Cell processor has only one.
Xbox 360's CPUs has vector processing power on each CPU core. Each Xbox 360 core has 128 vector registers per hardware thread, with a dot product instruction, and a shared 1-MB L2 cache. The Cell processor's vector processing power is mostly on the seven DSPs.
Dot products are critical to games because they are used in 3D math to calculate vector lengths, projections, transformations, and more. The Xbox 360 CPU has a dot product instruction, where other CPUs such as Cell must emulate dot product using multiple instructions.
Cell's streaming floating-point work is done on its seven DSP processors. Since geometry processing is moved to the GPU, the need for streaming floating-point work and other DSP style programming in games has dropped dramatically.
Just like with the PS2's Emotion Engine, with its missing L2 cache, the Cell is designed for a type of game programming that accounts for a minor percentage of processing time.
Sony's CPU is ideal for an environment where 12.5% of the work is general-purpose computing and 87.5% of the work is DSP calculations. That sort of mix makes sense for video playback or networked waveform analysis, but not for games. In fact, when analyzing real games one finds almost the opposite distribution of general purpose computing and DSP calculation requirements. A relatively small percentage of instructions are actually floating point. Of those instructions which are floating-point, very few involve processing continuous streams of numbers. Instead they are used in tasks like AI and path-finding, which require random access to memory and frequent branches, which the DSPs are ill-suited to.
Based on measurements of running next generation games, only ~10-30% of the instructions executed are floating point. The remainders of the instructions are load, store, integer, branch, etc. Even fewer of the instructions executed are streaming floating point?probably ~5-10%. Cell is optimized for streaming floating-point, with 87.5% of its cores good for streaming floating-point and nothing else.
Game programmers do not want to spread their code over eight processors, especially when seven of the processors are poorly suited for general purpose programming. Evenly distributing game code across eight processors is extremely difficult.
Game programmers do not want to spread their code over eight processors, especially when seven of the processors are poorly suited for general purpose programming. Evenly distributing game code across eight processors is extremely difficult.
GPU
Even ignoring the bandwidth limitations the PS3's GPU is not as powerful as the Xbox 360's GPU.
Below are the specs from Sony's press release regarding the PS3's GPU.
RSX GPU
550 MHz
Independent vertex/pixel shaders
51 billion dot products per second (total system performance)
300M transistors
136 "shader operations" per clock
The interesting ALU performance numbers are 51 billion dot products per second (total system performance), 300M transistors, and more than twice as powerful as the 6800 Ultra.
The 51 billions dot products per cycle were listed on a summary slide of total graphics system performance and are assumed to include the Cell processor. Sony's calculations seem to assume that the Cell can do a dot product per cycle per DSP, despite not having a dot product instruction.
However, using Sony's claim, 7 dot products per cycle * 3.2 GHz = 22.4 billion dot products per second for the CPU. That leaves 51 - 22.4 = 28.6 billion dot products per second that are left over for the GPU. That leaves 28.6 billion dot products per second / 550 MHz = 52 GPU ALU ops per clock.
It is important to note that if the RSX ALUs are similar to the GeForce 6800 ALUs then they work on vector4s, while the Xbox 360 GPU ALUs work on vector5s. The total programmable GPU floating point performance for the PS3 would be 52 ALU ops * 4 floats per op *2 (madd) * 550 MHz = 228.8 GFLOPS which is less than the Xbox 360's 48 ALU ops * 5 floats per op * 2 (madd) * 500 MHz= 240 GFLOPS.
With the number of transistors being slightly larger on the Xbox 360 GPU (330M) it's not surprising that the total programmable GFLOPs number is very close.
The PS3 does have the additional 7 DSPs on the Cell to add more floating point ops for graphics rendering, but the Xbox 360's three general purpose cores with custom D3D and dot product instructions are more customized for true graphics related calculations.
The 6800 Ultra has 16 pixel pipes, 6 vertex pipes, and runs at 400 MHz. Given the RSX's 2x better than a 6800 Ultra number and the higher frequency of the RSX, one can roughly estimate that it will have 24 pixel shading pipes and 4 vertex shading pipes (fewer vertex shading pipes since the Cell DSPs will do some vertex shading). If the PS3 GPU keeps the 6800 pixel shader pipe co-issue architecture which is hinted at in Sony's press release, this again gives it 24 pixel pipes* 2 issued per pipe + 4 vertex pipes = 52 dot products per clock in the GPU.
If the RSX follows the 6800 Ultra route, it will have 24 texture samplers, but when in use they take up an ALU slot, making the PS3 GPU in practice even less impressive. Even if it does manage to decouple texture fetching from ALU co-issue, it won't have enough bandwidth to fetch the textures anyways.
For shader operations per clock, Sony is most likely counting each pixel pipe as four ALU operations (co-issued vector+scalar) and a texture operation per pixel pipe and 4 scalar operations for each vector pipe, for a total of 24 * (4 + 1) + (4*4) = 136 operations per cycle or 136 * 550 = 74.8 GOps per second.
Given the Xbox 360 GPU's multithreading and balanced design, you really can't compare the two systems in terms of shading operations per clock. However, the Xbox 360's GPU can do 48 ALU operations (each can do a vector4 and scalar op per clock), 16 texture fetches, 32 control flow operations, and 16 programmable vertex fetch operations with tessellation per clock for a total of 48*2 + 16 + 32 + 16 = 160 operations per cycle or 160 * 500 = 80 GOps per second.
Overall, the automatic shader load balancing, memory export features, programmable vertex fetching, programmable triangle tesselator, full rate texture fetching in the vertex shader, and other "well beyond shader model 3.0" features of the Xbox 360 GPU should also contribute to overall rendering performance.
Bandwidth
The PS3 has 22.4 GB/s of GDDR3 bandwidth and 25.6 GB/s of RDRAM bandwidth for a total system bandwidth of 48 GB/s.
The Xbox 360 has 22.4 GB/s of GDDR3 bandwidth and a 256 GB/s of EDRAM bandwidth for a total of 278.4 GB/s total system bandwidth.
Why does the Xbox 360 have such an extreme amount of bandwidth? Even the simplest calculations show that a large amount of bandwidth is consumed by the frame buffer. For example, with simple color rendering and Z testing at 550 MHz the frame buffer alone requires 52.8 GB/s at 8 pixels per clock. The PS3's memory bandwidth is insufficient to maintain its GPU's peak rendering speed, even without texture and vertex fetches.
The PS3 uses Z and color compression to try to compensate for the lack of memory bandwidth. The problem with Z and color compression is that the compression breaks down quickly when rendering complex next-generation 3D scenes.
HDR, alpha-blending, and anti-aliasing require even more memory bandwidth. This is why Xbox 360 has 256 GB/s bandwidth reserved just for the frame buffer. This allows the Xbox 360 GPU to do Z testing, HDR, and alpha blended color rendering with 4X MSAA at full rate and still have the entire main bus bandwidth of 22.4 GB/s left over for textures and vertices.
CONCLUSION
When you break down the numbers, Xbox 360 has provably more performance than PS3. Keep in mind that Sony has a track record of over promising and under delivering on technical performance. The truth is that both systems pack a lot of power for high definition games and entertainment.
However, hardware performance, while important, is only a third of the puzzle. Xbox 360 is a fusion of hardware, software and services. Without the software and services to power it, even the most powerful hardware becomes inconsequential. Xbox 360 games?by leveraging cutting-edge hardware, software, and services?will outperform the PlayStation 3.
Lastly, we were sent updated spec numbers on the Xbox's numbers, and we spoke with Microsoft's Vice President of hardware, Todd Holmdahl, about the Xbox 360's final transistor count.
Another bit of information sent our way is the final transistor count for Xbox 360's graphics subset. The GPU totals 332 million transistors, which is spit between the two separate dies that make up the part. The parent die is the "main" piece of the GPU, handling the large bulk of the graphics rendering, and is comprised of 232 million transistors. The daughter die contains the system's 10MB of embedded DRAM and its logic chip, which is capable of some additional 3D math. The daughter die totals an even 100 million transistors, bringing the total transistor count for the GPU to 232 million.
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thanks
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Member
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26. May 2005 @ 12:29 |
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not bad info you guys, keep it up I love it.
Peace out!
"Ill Be Back" |
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00Gravity
Junior Member
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26. May 2005 @ 13:49 |
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i'm not defending the ps3, i'm getting the 360 and the ps3, it's that earlier i posted a lot of info about the 360 up, so i decided to do the same for the ps3, i'm just being fair. so don't think i'm a ms fan boy or a sony fan boy. i'm not. and don't think i'm a ms or sony hater either. i still believe that the 360 is the better system for now, and since it's coming out around christmas, how can u not but love it. and when they said that the ps3 was coming out in spring 2006, they weren't lying. it is *coughs ( in japan ) coughs*.
the ps3 is coming out summer 2006 in the u.s. so for you sony fan boys and sony lovers, it's time to face the truth, sony had you all going. and don't worry ms lovers and fb's, i'll something negative about the 360 as well.
see, me, i'm just reporting the facts and in the end, i'll sit back and see who will win. at first i was with sony for a little while, then i shifted over to ms for a quite some time, now, i'm in between.
and if you wanna know where i got the ps3 japan spring thing, just ask me and i'll give you the link, better yet..... here http://ps3.ign.com/articles/618/618698p1.html
and dammsaint, i thought someone had already posted all that stuff, or maybe it was on a different site
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FintheA
Newbie
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26. May 2005 @ 14:07 |
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Here the Deal, Strait up I am an Xbox man, it was the first system,in my opinion in recent memory to truly get me away from P.C.games and to tell you the truth I haven't played a complete PC game since,(Altough I keep buying em!)I just feel clostrophobic sitting over my pc,not to mention I have never been able to get a good control system down, I have even tried keyboard mapping joysticks like the Suncom SFX2 anyways, my game plan for this next gen wars is like this, right now I am going to be loding up on xbox titles; i.e. forza, burnout 4, the suffering 2, fable, jade empire ect. this should allow me to cruize through Xbox 360 launch (And winter) without jonesing to much, as I see it they won't be able to keep the launch price going for much of next year, as everyone who has to have one will get one by January 06, and it is my opinion along with launching Halo3 they will also lower the price at least 50-100 bucks to get momentem rolling again just before PS3's launch, the only thing that can screw up my plans is if Sony delays thier launch because they aren't ready, in that case microsoft won't see any need to lower thier price.Also my perdictions, the PS3 will ditch the blu-ray and use a regular dvd player, because they gotta use the expensive Cell they designed and also the expensive GPU, the only place they can relisticlly cut corners to lower the price is on Blu-Ray also because of the price of the Cell CPU and GPU they won't have a hard-drive.and they still will have to sell at a huge loss,Any thoughts?
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Brutalsun
Newbie
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26. May 2005 @ 14:46 |
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I'm going to throw my .02 in.
Did anyone notice that all of the PS3's screen shots were prerendered on an computer? THey also did not release any in game vids. M$ also showed the "power" of their system by showing in game vids on get this.... an apple G5!!! The only in game modeling done was by the ATI booth showing the power of the new grahpics chip going into the 360. It was the only partially working console of the bunch. I think just by screen shots M$ has this one. The PS3 screens look too PS2-like.... ie. cheap and cloudy. Free online sounds like it will be the name of the game.
Also I am going to laugh my ass off if blu-ray is not the industry standard, and sony gets the shaft.
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velascoj2
Junior Member
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26. May 2005 @ 14:53 |
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"dammsaint" dude you just copied and pasted the same info than "thefact" guy. Look at page nine on this post and you will read the same post you just added. There are mistakes on some of the info and I have steted them like 2-3 times (look back). The big performance issue on the article or argument is (concerning the cpu) based on the fact that the spe's (cores) that the 7 spe's have no cache memory. When in reality the fact is that each has spe have 256k of l2 cache per in adition 512k on top of that. Therefore all that cpu info is completely wrong. Read again the article and then closely read and analize the ps3 specs. All the questions and arguments have been answered here several times in this post, so please if you are joining late read whats been written before.
later
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00Gravity
Junior Member
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26. May 2005 @ 17:17 |
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i'm looking foward to heavenly sword for the ps3 and gears of war for the 360. you can't resist to play games like those. and true crimes 2 is coming out. dissapointingly, no for the 360 but for the regular xbox, go to http://www.truecrime2005.com/ they said some stuff about it at ign. i just can't wait 'till tekken 6 comes out, that's really why i want the ps3. i must have it.
I AM THE KING OF THE IRON FIST TOURNAMENTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Grunt14
Junior Member
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26. May 2005 @ 17:27 |
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FintheA, thats because the xbox have basically ported most of there games until recently. The thing is guys and any possible girls, is that its not only about power, sure its a big part. But when you think about it ultimately it comes down to games!. So far its been sonys ball park. Sure xbox had some e.g halo1,2, jade empire and then it starts going down hill. From there on games seem to either come from ps2 or pc.
Now im not saying you guys are lying, but it seems unbelievable that sony only has 15million. When you think theres sony music, sony appliances, and then sony playstation. But please feel free to correct me.
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Also I am going to laugh my ass off if blu-ray is not the industry standard, and sony gets the shaft.
Do you really think they would use it or even suggest they were using it if they hadn't had it all ok'd?
Come on guys just a bit of common-sense is all i ask.
(And 00Gravity, you do sound a lot like Zinn, and i've been following this thread from the start.)
I JUST WANT TO COPY DVD'S!, is that to much to ask for?
[img]http://www.blizzard.com/inblizz/fanart/ScreenShot.aspx?ImageIndex=01&Set=0"border=0>
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