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Official PS3 vs. Xbox 360 vs. N. Revolution
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00Gravity
Junior Member
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27. May 2005 @ 11:49 |
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Bill gates said that they were releasing halo 3 eother before or when the ps3 comes out. hopefully before. because the ps3 doesn't come out 'till summer in the u.s. it comes out spring in japan.
At Microsoft's Pre-E3 Press Conference, it was revealed that the Xbox 360 enables gamers to connect all sorts of peripherals to the new system. Want to steam music from your Ipod through the 360? Easy enough. How about uploading images from your digital camera? Assured. What about having your PSP make sweet, sweet connectivity with the Three-Six-Oh? Yeah, you can do that too.
While Microsoft wasn't bold enough to show this type of connectivity first-hand, the software giant showed a diagram that included Sony's PSP. The 360 can hook up with anything with a USB port, the PSP included. Finally you can swap porn between your PC, PSP and Xbox 360. The glory days are upon us!
Several people at Microsoft have told IGN in the past that while Microsoft finds it tempting to enter the handheld realm, they are content with the power of the Pocket PC. It's unlikely you'll see Xbox 360 commercials featuring the PSP, but expect the all-inclusive message of the 360 to include occasional mentions of Microsoft competitors. Expect PSP/Xbox 360 connectivity impressions the moment we get the new monster machine in the IGN office.
this info was released may 17th
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00Gravity
Junior Member
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27. May 2005 @ 11:58 |
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CPU
The Xbox 360 processor was designed to give game developers the power that they actually need, in an easy to use form. The Cell processor has impressive streaming floating-point power that is of limited use for games.
The majority of game code is a mixture of integer, floating-point, and vector math, with lots of branches and random memory accesses. This code is best handled by a general purpose CPU with a cache, branch predictor, and vector unit.
The Cell's seven DSPs (what Sony calls SPEs) have no cache, no direct access to memory, no branch predictor, and a different instruction set from the PS3's main CPU. They are not designed for or efficient at general purpose computing. DSPs are not appropriate for game programming.
Xbox 360 has three general purpose CPU cores. The Cell processor has only one.
Xbox 360's CPUs has vector processing power on each CPU core. Each Xbox 360 core has 128 vector registers per hardware thread, with a dot product instruction, and a shared 1-MB L2 cache. The Cell processor's vector processing power is mostly on the seven DSPs.
Dot products are critical to games because they are used in 3D math to calculate vector lengths, projections, transformations, and more. The Xbox 360 CPU has a dot product instruction, where other CPUs such as Cell must emulate dot product using multiple instructions.
Cell's streaming floating-point work is done on its seven DSP processors. Since geometry processing is moved to the GPU, the need for streaming floating-point work and other DSP style programming in games has dropped dramatically.
Just like with the PS2's Emotion Engine, with its missing L2 cache, the Cell is designed for a type of game programming that accounts for a minor percentage of processing time.
Sony's CPU is ideal for an environment where 12.5% of the work is general-purpose computing and 87.5% of the work is DSP calculations. That sort of mix makes sense for video playback or networked waveform analysis, but not for games. In fact, when analyzing real games one finds almost the opposite distribution of general purpose computing and DSP calculation requirements. A relatively small percentage of instructions are actually floating point. Of those instructions which are floating-point, very few involve processing continuous streams of numbers. Instead they are used in tasks like AI and path-finding, which require random access to memory and frequent branches, which the DSPs are ill-suited to.
Based on measurements of running next generation games, only ~10-30% of the instructions executed are floating point. The remainders of the instructions are load, store, integer, branch, etc. Even fewer of the instructions executed are streaming floating point?probably ~5-10%. Cell is optimized for streaming floating-point, with 87.5% of its cores good for streaming floating-point and nothing else.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. May 2005 @ 19:47
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Senior Member
2 product reviews
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27. May 2005 @ 12:20 |
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Edited Coz I was friggin censored. (Thanks)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. May 2005 @ 22:48
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00Gravity
Junior Member
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27. May 2005 @ 13:02 |
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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. May 2005 @ 19:48
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00Gravity
Junior Member
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27. May 2005 @ 13:10 |
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no direspect but martial arts helps for discipline. it's not ment to fight, it's so you don't have to fight. (it's not like you can beat up my sensei) they trained me into killing anyway. plus if you faught any high ranked black belts, then they would have went to jail for even pretending to fight. once you get a certain rank you get registered. if your registered that means you can teach others ( of course with permission from your sensei as well)
just to let you know the facts, and i'm sure you probably beat up some white belts or something, nothing important
and to state the fact if you fight someone knows martial arts and is all ready a good street fighter, there's not much to help you there, in probably 2 more years i'll be registered in mo
and it will help, if you faught someone truly important, then they would have killed you. or broke your arms or something, just because you beat up an asian doesn't mean they knew martial arts, that would be prejudice. and i'm assuming that's what you ment. i still can't see how u could beat a black belt, don't get me wrong but the average street fighter can go head to head with the average black belt, but i just don't see you being anywhere near as good as the average street fighter, so make sure they did know martial arts and were not immitating a video game.
and don't reply and say u did beat a black belt, because beating up a high ranked black belt is like beating a pro boxer, now can anyone imagine that happening?
ps: does anyone know the expected release date of the nr?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. May 2005 @ 13:22
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Member
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27. May 2005 @ 17:15 |
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Yeah thats nice and everything but lets not go off topic. And the release date fo NR is currently unknown.
"go xbox 360"
Peace out!
"Ill Be Back" This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. May 2005 @ 17:19
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theLogue
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27. May 2005 @ 17:16 |
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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. May 2005 @ 19:47
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00Gravity
Junior Member
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27. May 2005 @ 17:22 |
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If i'm correct, we won't here from you a again, with your insult, goodbye. and i wasn't bragging i was just saying why i don't get mad anymore.
I told i would find 360 info,
My super-secret console-licking moles have unearthed a few more Xbox 360 gems worthy of posting. OK, actually the mole doesn?t lick consoles and really it?s just one gem. Apparently, the Xbox 360 will be sold at two price points. For $299 you will get the base system which doesn?t have a hard-drive or backwards compatibility. For another $100 you get the system bundled with some sort of optional add-on which will include WebTv.
Taking a page from the PSP-launch playbook, I?ve been told that about 80 percent of the systems initially produced will be bundled with the add-on. So unless you feel like waiting, you?ll be plunking down nearly $400 for your Xbox 360.
ATI revealed this afternoon that every single Xbox 360 game will be required to run at a minimum of 720p resolution with 4x Anti-Aliasing.
Speaking at a press conference in London, ATI technology specialist Rene Froeleke told journalists that Microsoft had specified that games must run at the 1280x720 resolution at 4xAA with no slowdown. Every single game will be supported at this graphical specification, which we think is great news for gamers playing on big-screen TVs.
When questionned as to why the minimum wasn't 1080p, Rene responded that most of Europe hadn't even reached 720, let alone 1080.
Because of the embedded DRAM architecture of Xbox 360, the AA was described as 'Absolutely free'.
The technology fulfills all the criteria of Windows Graphics Foundation 1.0, aka DirectX 9.0c, which includes Shader Model 3.0. However, it lacks features which are required for WGF 2.0, most notably the ability to create vertices, rather than just shade and manipulate them.
Whilst the architecture of the 360 is not comparable to a PC design, Rene said that the raw performance would be roughly equivalent to a 32-pipeline PC graphics card.
The shared memory technology was 'Definitely not comparable to Hypermemory', ATI's shared memory technology for the PC.
The chip doesn't have an official ATI name, since ATI aren't marketing it. Whilst the codename is R500, we were told that the name meant 'As much as the code on my suitcase' in terms of relevance to existing architecture.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. May 2005 @ 17:24
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Alien13
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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27. May 2005 @ 17:24 |
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thansk for tha info WVengence.
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foxTrue
Newbie
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27. May 2005 @ 18:33 |
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Short Overview
The Cell architecture consists of a number of elements:
The Cell Processor
This is a 9 core processor, one of these cores is something similar to a PowerPC G5 and acts as a controller. The remaining 8 cores are called APUs and these are very high performance vector processors. Each APU contains it's own block of high speed RAM and is capable of 32 GigaFlops (32bit). The APUs are independent processors and can act alone or can be set up to process a stream of data with different APUs working on different stages. This ability to act as a "stream processor" gives access to the full processing power of a Cell which is more than 10 times higher than even the fastest desktop processors.
In addition to the raw processing power the Cell includes a high performance multi-channel memory subsystem and a number of high speed interconnects for connecting to other Cells or I/O devices.
Distributing Processing
Cells are specifically designed to work together. While they can be directly connected via the high speed interconnects they can also be connected in other ways or distributed over a network. The Cells are not gaming or computer specific, they can be in anything from PDAs to TVs and all can be used to effectively act as a single system. The infrastructure for this is built into each Cell as they operate on "Software Cells" which contain routing information as well as programs and data.
Parallel programming is usually complex but in this case the OS will look at the resources it has and distribute tasks accordingly, this process does not involve re-programming. If you want more processing power you simply add more Cells, you do not need to replace the existing ones as the new Cells will augment the existing ones.
Overall the Cell architecture is an architecture for distributed, parallel processing using very powerful computational engines developed using a highly aggressive design strategy. These devices shall be produced in vast numbers so they will provide vast processing resources at a low cost.
Conclusion
The first Cell based desktop computer will be the fastest desktop computer in the industry by a very large margin. Even high end multi-core x86s will not get close. Companies who produce microprocessors or DSPs are going to have a very hard time fighting the power a Cell will deliver. We have never seen a leap in performance like this before and I don't expect we'll ever see one again, It'll send shock-waves through the entire industry and we'll see big changes as a result.
The sheer power and low cost of the Cell means it will present a challenge to the venerable PC. The PC has always been able to beat competition by virtue of it's huge software base, but this base is not as strong as it once was. A lot of software now runs on Linux and this is not dependant on x86 processors or Microsoft. Most PCs now provide more power than is necessary and this fact combined with fast JIT emulators means that if necessary the Cell can provide PC compatibility without the PC.
It will not just attack the PC industry but expect it to be widely used in embedded applications where high performance is required. This means it will be made in numbers potentially many times that of x86 CPUs and this will reduce prices further. This will also hurt PC based vendors' desires to enter the home entertainment space as PC based solutions [Entertainment] will be more complex and cost more than Cell based systems.
This is going to prove difficult for the PC as CPU and GPU suppliers will have essentially nothing to fight back with. All they can hope to do is match a Cell's performance but even that is going to be incredibly difficult given the Cell's aggressive Cray-esqe design strategy.
Cell is going to turn the industry upside down, nobody has ever produced such a leap in performance in one go and certainly not at a low price. The CPU producers will be forced to fight back and irrespective of how well the Cell actually does in the market you can be sure that in a few short years all CPUs will be providing vastly more processing resources than they do today. Even if the Cell was to fail we shall all gain from it's legacy.
Not all companies will react correctly or in time, this will provide opportunities for newer, smaller and smarter companies. Big changes are coming, they may take years but the Cell means a decade from now the technology world is going to look very different.
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PS3 WINS!!!
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00Gravity
Junior Member
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27. May 2005 @ 19:37 |
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foxTrue, you can't do research on one system and say that it wins, life doesn't work that way. do some research on the 360 before you decide.
if i'm correct you're a sony fan boy, am i right. who knows maybe you just like sony alot, really alot. a little too much.
you like sony like sony likes ducks.
and it has been proven that sony has a fetish for ducks.
stupid duck lovers
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theLogue
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27. May 2005 @ 19:44 |
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...HAHA and i still dont care about martial arts!!...Oh wait..i was told that No one will hear from me again and since we all know that these forums are run by KING 00GRAVITY what he says goes!!...anyways stop worshiping the Cell when its not even here. Empty promises is all im hearing
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27. May 2005 @ 19:51 |
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bye bye theLogue. Dammit I leave this thread alone for one day!!!! You guys can't even stay on topic.
00Gravity, watch yourself.
Same goes for everybody else. I almost went crazy with the ban button.
Official PS3 vs. Xbox 360 vs. N. Revolution That is the topic!!!
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Moderator
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27. May 2005 @ 19:57 |
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Quote:
Oh wait..i was told that No one will hear from me again and since we all know that these forums are run by KING 00GRAVITY what he says goes!!.
Actually if you would have been reading along ... I've given enough warnings about being adults. I don't care if you say one sucks or what not ... but stop with the personal attacks.
Also everybody read the forum rules. Stay on topic or go bye bye.
Last ... who cares about your martial arts. It won't stop a bullet.
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27. May 2005 @ 20:12 |
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00Gravity
Junior Member
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27. May 2005 @ 20:30 |
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at least someone was paying attention, oh yea flip, the xbox 360 without web tv and reverse capabilities will be 300. the other one with all the stuff will be 400.
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Ludikhris
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28. May 2005 @ 00:42 |
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All of this is completly irrelevant. I dont care which system is better made for game making or which is more powerful. Really when you look at it, it is very relative. Even the differences between PS2 and XBOX are are slim. Ive played both and when the smoke cleared from the controllers, I owned a PS2 and a Gamecube. Looks like it will be similar this time, why? Because I simply dont like Microsofts games. Many more Japanese companies, including the ones the make the majority of the RPGs are in bed with Sony (and kinda Nintendo). Microsoft really has nothing for me. Somehow Halo just flew right by me, I didn't like it much. But I guess I could see how someone could like it a lot (im a UT fan myself). So really, the gaming industry is a fan boy industry. You are all fan boys, every last one of you. I am too however. I love Sony and Nintendo, and they can both step on my toes a lot before they lose that because they come out with hella good games. I could never really get into XBOX, it juest wasnt there. Not only that but Bill Gates is really reaching right now with some sort of technological manifest destiny. "We will kill Sony" "We will kill Ipod" Good luck buddy. I realize Microsoft is big and has weight to throw, but generally speaking Microsoft does not do the research necessary to join into anything, they just buy their way in. Look at their new anti spyware program, they bought it and changed the name. WAY TO GO!!! You know how to buy things!!! Ask yourself though.. would you use Microsofts nuclear reactor that they knew nothing about but bought from a previous genious then made alterations and sold it to you? Probably not... BOOM! Also take into example XBOXs great 360 commercial they had on MTV, thats right it was a commercial not a feature or a show. They paid a lot of people a lot of money to just stand there and go "Love 360 Love 360 Love 360 Love 360!" Not that Sony and Nintendo dont do that too, but there is definitely a lot more marketing brainwash coming from Microsoft then there is the others. Sony is saying their system will be stronger, Microsoft is not making the same claim about their system. Anyone who argues with Sony must obviously KNOW MORE THAN THE PEOPLE WHO MAKE THE CONSOLES. You should really get into that industry, youre good. Wait to see what happens, if Sony really isnt better (which I think it will only be marginally better mind you) then call them liars and buy an XBOX. Do what you want but hardware really doesnt make the system, the games do. We all know this.
Ludikhris
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00Gravity
Junior Member
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28. May 2005 @ 00:55 |
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how in the hell does hardware not make the system?????
without hardware you can't play games, hardware then software.
i'm not a fanboy either, i really could gives a rabbits ass who wins. all i know is that whoever wins, i will have their system.
ps: the ps3 will come out summer in the u.s. it comes out in spring in japan. sony, u slick bastards...
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WVengence
Member
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28. May 2005 @ 06:18 |
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Foxtrue: Your information is a bioled down version of this article...
http://www.blachford.info/computer/Cells/Cell1.html
You forgot to mention a few things...
First, the 360 CPU structure is capable of simular Floating Point operations...
Second, you forget to mention the difficulty of programing for a cell or the way it suffers using general purpose computing (Hence why the x86 does so well). The cell is good in it's own purpose, but it's not the end all, be all. For note, the article states that to emulate an x86, it would run the same as a high end computer out currently. Since a cell is 'suppose' to have 20 times the power, that's quite a hit for general processing... Ever hear of branch prediction? Read up on it...
Last but not least, it's not just the processor that will make a system, that's just part of the puzzle. I will note here that the Emotion Engine was suppose to be a new generation of processor capable of miraculous things (Indeed, it could do ALOT for it's time) but was strangled by a lack of memory bandwidth to the CPU.
00Grav:
Your quoting old rumors... The $300 is with a HDD and compatability. The rumor that you are quoting was when they said they woul have a $399 version with a HDD, compatability (which required the HDD), web TV and the camera. It's not true.
Ludikris:
Regarding MS Anti Spyware. Do your research, because your wrong. MS released the beta Antispyware about 3 months before they bought Sybari. They are using Sybari to fuel their AntiVirus efforts but had their AntiSpyware up and going before hand.
Also, regarding your comment about anyone arguing with Sony. I will point out (regarding the infamous KZ2 video) that J Tretton (VP Sony America) said that it was in-game play while Phil Harrison (VP Sony Europe) said it was a video, on the SAME DAY!!! Now since these two are in the console industry and even in the same company. Forgive me if I find their claims a little hard to swallow if they can't even get their lies straight among themselves... Interview videos are available from G4tech TV...
Grav:
The reason why people say that the hardware doesn't matter is because when all is said and done, both the 360 & PS3 will be capable of the exact same types of graphics.... There will be no real difference between them.
That being the case, Games (and the ease with which developers can make them) as well as services such as media connectivity and online play are what will distinguish one console from another.
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rap4life
Suspended permanently
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28. May 2005 @ 09:43 |
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Ludikhris
Junior Member
28. May 2005 @ 04:42
All of this is completly irrelevant. I dont care which system is better made for game making or which is more powerful. Really when you look at it, it is very relative. Even the differences between PS2 and XBOX are are slim. Ive played both and when the smoke cleared from the controllers, I owned a PS2 and a Gamecube. Looks like it will be similar this time, why? Because I simply dont like Microsofts games. Many more Japanese companies, including the ones the make the majority of the RPGs are in bed with Sony (and kinda Nintendo).
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alot of Japanese rpg games look sorry and look like pokimon, has a bad story to it, and not as fun as fable, knight of the old rebulic and KOTOR 2 sith lords
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00Gravity
Junior Member
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28. May 2005 @ 10:52 |
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Wvengence, at least someone understands that they are both capable of the same graphics, and for the rumor, i'm not sure if it's true or not, and you shouldn't be either. if u have any proof proving that this rumor isn't real, please shot it to evrybody and i'll admit i was wrong for making it seem like the truth, until then, don't say what i post isn't true unless you have something to prove it.
well anyway you can find the rumor at ign at these links: http://xbox.ign.com/articles/605/605867p1.html
http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox1data/sep/EEEFVlulVyktzqKTYb.php
http://www.ferrago.com/portal/cluster/217151
now for what i have to say on the subject,
Microsoft's is still planning to ship two different versions of its Xbox 360 console at launch, according to sources close to the company - while reports suggest that the high-end version may feature the firm's WebTV system.
It's long been thought that Microsoft plans to ship two different Xbox 360 bundles, one with a hard drive and one without, and give users the option of upgrading the low-end system with a hard drive accessory.
Sources close to the firm have confirmed this week that there's much talk of two distinct price points, which seems to indicate that this is still the plan for launch - while a report on well-connected gaming blog Kotaku gives an indication of how the two different models will be differentiated.
The site reports that the basic edition of Xbox 360 - the version without the hard drive - will not have backwards compatibility, while the "premium" version with the hard drive will ship with Microsoft's WebTV functionality built-in.
WebTV is Microsoft's effort at bringing internet communication and media functionality to the living room, and includes basic functionality such as web, e-mail and IM access along with the ability to stream music and video channels from the 'net or from local PCs.
Integrating the system with Xbox 360 would be a logical move, and a major land-grab for Microsoft in this space - which is tipped to become more important in the coming years as increasing amounts of content are broadcast over the Internet as opposed to over traditional TV networks.
A major question mark over the possibility of a the two-tier Xbox launch, however, lies with the question of customised content - one of J Allard's most vaunted goals for the new system - and how that would tie in with a low-end Xbox 360 without a mass storage device.
One part of the answer to that question is the inclusion of a high-capacity solid state memory device with the system, which wouldn't be large enough to store music or movies in any significant volume - or to act as a cache for Xbox games, as the existing Xbox' hard drive does - but would be able to act as a cache customised game assets.
Indeed, last year Israeli flash memory specialist M-Systems confirmed that it is working on a memory solution for Xbox 2, with CEO Dov Moran stating that "when users want to save their e-mail messages, copy music, or anything like that, the only storage they?ll have is what we give them."
Another part of the answer to that question may come from Kotaku's sources, who indicated to the site that around 80 per cent of the systems produced for launch would be the "premium" version - suggesting that the lower-end model is, more than anything else, a concession to launching a competitively priced "games only" system.
Sony is also widely expected to launch multiple versions of the PlayStation 3 console, which is due to arrive in 2006, with both "home media server" and stripped down "basic console" versions believed to be on the cards.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. May 2005 @ 10:53
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rap4life
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28. May 2005 @ 11:13 |
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PS3
could have better graphics but sony doesnt know if it will.
and 360 with 3 prosesers will be able to do 3 thing at the same time.
but their so close to each other u wont notic a diff.
only each other gamers and option will be diff.
If u like halo u should buy 360.
If u like Teken u should buy PS3.
if u want a black console then buy PS3
If u want a USA flag as ur cover and outline when u start ur console buy 360.
Buy what u want dont let any one change ur mind. A game is a game or a console is a console and dont get mad if someone make fun of then.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. May 2005 @ 11:14
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hovabyte
Account closed as per user's own request
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28. May 2005 @ 15:12 |
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get all three consoles
get them all chipped
never buy games again!
f@*k xbox live and ps3 dns checks,get some real friends.
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Matrifart
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28. May 2005 @ 15:50 |
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Nice thread. Lots of valid arguements.
I have seen both sides of the story, and i still think the ps3 is best. Yes i am a ps fan, but no real sony fan as they have a tendency of screwing things up in various departments. But so has M$.
I cannot be assed to give a valid arguement, because all the facts have been mentioned and we will just have to wait and see.
Still though, go ps3.^^
NOONE.......
PS3 rocks....
Ok so the 360 is a nifty piece of kit aswell..
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00Gravity
Junior Member
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28. May 2005 @ 15:50 |
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i'm getting all three, it's just that the ps3 doesn't come out 'till summer, and that sucks. however that means you can get the 360 for xmas this year, and the ps3 for xmas next years.
so maybe it's not that bad of a thing.
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