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Backs up and plays fine but...
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nabb
Newbie
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13. July 2005 @ 09:51 |
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Have tried DVDshrink and DVD X Copy Platinum. Both do the job but seems picture quality is not all that great. Tried playing back-ups in multiple players/TVs, different brands of DVD+R's and back-ups of same movie writin with other PC's/ different writer's/ same back-up programs. All play fine but look not DVD quality. Kind of grainy and pasty like.
Any recommendations or ideas why?
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AfterDawn Addict
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13. July 2005 @ 11:07 |
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You can cut out the trailers, extras, and unneeded junk, to get your compression level down,using the "reauthor" feature in DVD Shrink.If the movie that your doing is too big, then you would be better off splitting it onto 2 discs.If you dont want to do that, make sure the quality settings are enabled in DVD Shrink.
Or there are a couple retail programs that handle large amounts of compression very well.
Check out the link in my sig, pay attention to bbmayo, and ScubaPetes guides, and sites,
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Bruce999
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13. July 2005 @ 11:09 |
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It sounds as if picture quality is important to you. (Note that this is not true of everyone here).
I, too, suffer from the same curse. I view on a relatively large display, and am very picky about the final quality.
Because of this, I have simply chosen never to compress. I will lose the menus, since they do not matter to me. I usually do NOT lose the extras, although I would not mind, since I consider them silly "fluff." But, I always rip and burn in such a way that I do not use any compression. Keep in mind the original DVDs themselves already have used some compression, and I prefer not add any new compression on top of that.
If the original is a dual layer disc, this means I usually must split the main movie onto two blank discs (while I wait for the dual layer blanks to come down in price).
You can find guides around the various DVD burning web sites for how to do this, if you decide to switch gears and try it.
My backups always look and sound identical to the originals, in terms of quality. The only major compromise is that I have to get up and swap a disc once during many movies. I do not mind this, since I always place this transition at a chapter break, and I usually need a break at some point, anyway.
One method I often use:
-Use DVDDecrypter in file mode or use DVDShrink with NO COMPRESSION selected to rip the entire original disc to my hard drive.
-Use DVDShrink and choose "open file" and navigate to the hard drive folder where the rip is.
-Change to re-author mode, and then drag only the Main Movie title over to the left pane. Ignore all other stuff, for now.
-Change the "compression" values so it reads "NO COMPRESSION" again. Now, on the left hand side, click on the icon for "choose start/end times," and choose to start at chapter 1, and to end at the last chapter that will comfortably fit, with "no compression" again selected. Rip this first 1/2 of the main movie, and then burn it.
-Do not close DVDShrink, but instead again click on the icon for "choose start/end times," and choose to start at the very next chapter (which follows the ending chapter from the previous burn), and choose to end at the final very last chapter that is on the original DVD. Now, if you like, you can even drag any "extras" over so they play automatically immediately after the Main Movie is done. Pop a new blank into your burner. Rip this second 1/2, and then burn it.
This actually all goes very fast (since no compression is involved). My backup copies of DVDs start up immediately, with no garbage advertisements. I can use my remote to cycle through all available audio tracks, and all subtitles, etc.
Or, you can continue sacrificing picture quality, of course. Or, you can spend a great deal on dual layer media.
-Bruce
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. July 2005 @ 11:13
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AfterDawn Addict
6 product reviews
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13. July 2005 @ 12:00 |
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If you would rather not fork out the inflated price for DL media and would rather not split the movie onto two discs, I recommend DVD-RB/CCE. They are the best backup combo under $2000 and I can not notice any video quality loss on my 52" hdtv. DVD-RB has a free version but CCE costs $58 and uses the same encoding engine as its $2000 parent. DVD-RB also has an installer that comes with 3 free encoders bundled in and although I always use CCE I have read that the free encoders do an excellent job and are still superior to any 1 click transcoder apps especially where a lot of compression is required. My video folders are between 6500 and 7000 mb after trimming and polishing with dvdremake prior to encoding and I can't notice any video quality loss compared to the original. I can dig up DVD-RB installer if you would like.
@bruce999,
Quote:
use DVDShrink with NO COMPRESSION selected to rip the entire original disc to my hard drive.
I used to use dvd shrink set at no compression to rip but noticed on some scenes (played back from my hdd even prior to any encoding or burning) the background was jittery and jumped around behind the foreground and even sorta blurry. Because of this reason I no longer use shrink (even set at no compression) as a ripper and use dvdd exclusively and have had absolutely no problems ever since. I doubt there is anybody more particular about the quality of their backups than me.
Mort
Rig #1 Asus Rampage Formula Mobo, Intel Core2Quad Q9450 CPU @ 3.55ghz, 2gb Corsair DDR2 1066 Dominator Ram @ 5-5-5-15, TR Ultra 120 Extreme w/ Scythe 9 blade 110 cfm 120mm Fan HSF, HIS Radeon 512mb HD3850 IceQ TurboX GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, CM Stacker 830 Evo Case, Rig #2 Asus P5W DH Deluxe Mobo, Intel C2D E6600 CPU @ 3.6ghz, 2gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 Ram @ 4-4-4-12-2t, Zalman CNPS9500LED HSF, Sapphire Radeon X850XT PE GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, Cooler Master Mystique Case, Viewsonic 20.1" Widescreen Digital LCD Monitor, Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 THX Desktop Speakers, http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=348351 http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=236435This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. July 2005 @ 12:14
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nabb
Newbie
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13. July 2005 @ 12:16 |
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Thanks a bunch everyone for replies. I know know there is a cure and that is helpful as all get out.
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Bruce999
Member
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13. July 2005 @ 13:31 |
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>>>>I used to use DVD Shrink set at no compression to rip but noticed on some scenes (played back from my hdd even prior to any encoding or burning) the background was jittery and jumped around behind the foreground and even sorta blurry.<<<<
Just a couple of thoughts. I am not trying to be "disagreeable," and I am not certain what you were seeing, but I can assue you that the "No compression" setting in DVDShrink means exactly that -- no compression. The net result is a bit-for-bit copy of the original, with no possible change in picture quality whatsoever. None. The copy protection and encryption and region protection have been removed, but the video image will be every bit as good as the original.
(Edit: regarding the statement above about "no possible change in picture quality whatsoever." Yes, I know there can be a sort of a loss of video quality due to a lousy burn, for example, if one overburns or has lousy media and ends up with skipping, jumping, and even video breakup into pixels and pixellization... however, that is not the case here, and it is certainly not the cause of your laptop viewing issues.)
The same (no loss of video quality due to compression during the encoding process) is true of using Decrypter, for example (since it cannot compress), and one can easily compare the resulting files from the two programs, their file sizes, and also view the end results for verification. And, it is easy to compare the same with the originals. This has been done many times.
If you saw the jitteriness you mentioned, and jumping and "blurriness," on your laptop, then they were due to some other issue (video card failing to refresh, video drivers, software limitations, etc.)
Regarding the software you recommend, and your satisfaction on your 52 set... I am certain that this is true, for you and your setup and your needs. However, since I am often disatisfied with the video quality of the ORIGINAL DVDs, due to the lower bitrates on some discs (most typically because of the desire to cram lots of extras onto a disc), then I am certainly not willing to use any software to add additional compression, no matter how "unnoticable" the reduction may appear to another. I have been far too spoiled (three years of way, way too much high definition viewing.) My 65" Mits Diamond has been ISF calibrated (twice!) and carefully tweaked (I2C enhanced to correct to 0.0 red push, gray scale set with Sencor to 65K, etc.) This means a flawless picture source will yield incredible beauty. But, this also means any inferior source will be very noticable. It means the set will display each and every flaw with lesser sources with true detail and visual fidelity. There are many DVDs that already look pretty bad on my setup ("True Lies," "English Patient," the first Star Wars film and "Spider-man 2" (as everyone knows), and many more. Some of these have transfer problems and all of them used way too much compression already.
I am NOT advocating my approach for those who cannot see the difference. Obviously, my approach is only for a few. However, the person who I was responding to appears to be one of those who CAN see the difference, which is what led to his original post.
Take care, and have a good day,
-Bruce
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. July 2005 @ 13:57
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AfterDawn Addict
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13. July 2005 @ 14:01 |
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Bruce,
I don't want to argue but you are wrong. Read through this thread. http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/1/209355#1148900 Dvd shrink alters (processes) files even under no compression and it does have an effect on the resulting video.
Quote:
If you saw the jitteriness you mentioned, and jumping and "blurriness," on your laptop, then they were due to some other issue (video card failing to refresh, video drivers, software limitations, etc.)
I first noticed the problem when playing the bakup on my stand-alone dvd player and then resorted back to the video folders on my decktop pc (don't have a note book) to isolate the problem and the problem was due to ripping with dvd shrink set at no compression. Read the other thread.
Mort
Rig #1 Asus Rampage Formula Mobo, Intel Core2Quad Q9450 CPU @ 3.55ghz, 2gb Corsair DDR2 1066 Dominator Ram @ 5-5-5-15, TR Ultra 120 Extreme w/ Scythe 9 blade 110 cfm 120mm Fan HSF, HIS Radeon 512mb HD3850 IceQ TurboX GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, CM Stacker 830 Evo Case, Rig #2 Asus P5W DH Deluxe Mobo, Intel C2D E6600 CPU @ 3.6ghz, 2gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 Ram @ 4-4-4-12-2t, Zalman CNPS9500LED HSF, Sapphire Radeon X850XT PE GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, Cooler Master Mystique Case, Viewsonic 20.1" Widescreen Digital LCD Monitor, Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 THX Desktop Speakers, http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=348351 http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=236435This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. July 2005 @ 14:08
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Bruce999
Member
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13. July 2005 @ 21:33 |
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>>>> don't want to argue but you are wrong. Read through this thread. http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/1/209355#1148900 DVD Shrink alters (processes) files even under no compression and it does have an effect on the resulting video. <<<<
Hmmm. have you ever noticed that when a person writes that they "do not want to argue," then they proceed to go right ahead and do so? Relax, I mean no offense, I am just kidding, okay?
I read the entire thread you referred me to, but unfortunately I saw nothing that demonstrated anything other than opinion. And, since these opinions all run contrary to those I been reading for the past 3 years, both here, and over at the Doom 9 forum, and the VideoHelp forums, and the Club CDFeaks forums, I was left in a state of frustration. In fact, I just did a search won the Doom 9 forum, and was able to come up with 9 threads where this topic came up on the first three pages. In all 9 of those threads, people posted opinions, of course. These opinions were completely contradictory to the opinions in the thread you pointed me to. They all seemed to make common sense, but they were no more empirical than your statement that I was "wrong."
So, I decided to run my own tests, just for grins. I mean no offense, but I saw the other threads running here, also, and it seems a lot of people are mow assuming the files from DVDShrink are somehow reduced in size.
I chose a recent film, one I just purchased:
A Very Long Engagement," which just came out this past Tuesday. I made certain it was a dual layer original. It is. It has a few extras, as well, but most of these are reserved for a second disc.
Test 1 -->
I ripped the entire disc to my hard drive, useing DVDShrink, and changed the default compression to "no compression." Then, I ripped the entire disc to the same hard drive to a new folder, and used DVDDecrypter in file meode, with default settings. Then, I navigated to each individual file, and chose to look at the actual "bytes" reported by Windows. I right-clicked, and looked at the properties of each file. I ignored the megabytes and the kilobutes to acvoid as much of the "file size confusion" over misreporting as I could. I recorded these.
Here are the results of this test:
Filename****** DVDShrink sizes****** DVDDecrypter sizes:
VideoTS.BUP**** 10,240 bytes********* 10,240 bytes
VideoTS.IFO*****10,240 bytes********* 10,240 bytes
VTS_01_0.BUP*** 112,640 bytes******** 112,640 bytes
VTS_01_0.IFO*** 112,640 bytes******** 112,640 bytes
VTS.01.0.VOB****524,675,072 bytes**** 524,675,072 bytes
VTS.01.1.VOB*****1,073,739,776 bytes** 1,073,739,776 bytes
VTS.01.2.VOB*****1,073,739,776 bytes** 1,073,739,776 bytes
VTS.01.3.VOB*****1,073,739,776 bytes** 610,037,760 bytes
VTS.01.4.VOB*****1,073,739,776 bytes** 1,073,739,776 bytes
VTS.01.5.VOB*****1,073,739,776 bytes** 1,073,739,776 bytes
VTS.01.6.VOB*****1,073,739,776 bytes** 1,073,739,776 bytes
VTS.01.7.VOB****89,131,008 bytes***** 552,833,024 bytes
VTS_02_0.BUP******14,336 bytes********* 14,336 bytes
VTS_02_0.IFO** 14,336 bytes********* 14,336 bytes
VTS_02_0.VOB** *did not exist******* 0 bytes
VTS_02_1.VOB** 19,363,840 bytes***** 19,363,840 bytes
Sum of all: 7,075,883,008 bytes** 7,075,883,008 bytes
==============
Note that there are minor differences in how each chooses to divvy up the video stream into the larger files. And, curiously, DVDDecrypter created a zero byte file for VTS_02_0.VOB, while DVDShrink did not even create such a file. However, you will note that the sum total of the file sizes are identical, just as I have always read they should be.
Again, no offense is intended, and I apologize for interrupting the flow of the thread.
Take care,
-Bruce
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. July 2005 @ 21:58
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AfterDawn Addict
6 product reviews
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13. July 2005 @ 21:57 |
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No offense intended and to each his/her own but I know from personal experience that DVD Shrink alters (processes) files even set at no compression. You and anybody else that so chooses can use shrink set at no compression as a ripper but you are not getting a true 1:1 backup as you would useing dvdd or other true ripper that doesn't process the files. I would think that after three years you would have noticed the flaws with it as well. Hey shrink is a great free app but needs to to used where/as it was intended. I personally will never use shrink set at no compression as a ripper as I am too much of a perfectionist and want my backups to be as close to the original as possible without useing DL media (I use hub printable media and hub printable DL media is way to pricy) or spliting into 2 dvd's. I won't tolerate any jittering, pixelation, or freezing. Have a good day.
Cheers
Mort
Rig #1 Asus Rampage Formula Mobo, Intel Core2Quad Q9450 CPU @ 3.55ghz, 2gb Corsair DDR2 1066 Dominator Ram @ 5-5-5-15, TR Ultra 120 Extreme w/ Scythe 9 blade 110 cfm 120mm Fan HSF, HIS Radeon 512mb HD3850 IceQ TurboX GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, CM Stacker 830 Evo Case, Rig #2 Asus P5W DH Deluxe Mobo, Intel C2D E6600 CPU @ 3.6ghz, 2gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 Ram @ 4-4-4-12-2t, Zalman CNPS9500LED HSF, Sapphire Radeon X850XT PE GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, Cooler Master Mystique Case, Viewsonic 20.1" Widescreen Digital LCD Monitor, Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 THX Desktop Speakers, http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=348351 http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=236435 |
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Bruce999
Member
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13. July 2005 @ 22:30 |
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>>>>>I know from personal experience that DVD Shrink alters (processes) files even set at no compression.<<<<<
Mort, with all due respect, I guess I had hoped for something other than mere opinion, here, on this issue. Oh, well, I shall navigate elsewhere, and keep trying.
>>> You and anybody else that so chooses can use shrink set at no compression as a ripper but you are not getting a true 1:1 backup as you would useing dvdd or other true ripper that doesn't process the files.<<<<
Uh, begging your pardon, but can you demonstrate this, or point me toward something a bit more factual that might help to make a believer out of me? In the past couple of hours I have read so many posts which seem to state quite the opposite, and I guess I am just grasping at straws, here.
>>>> I would think that after three years you would have noticed the flaws with it as well.<<<<
No.
Not certain what you mean by "flaws."
>>>>Hey shrink is a great free app but needs to to used where/as it was intended. <<<<<
I am getting more confused. In fact, I am not certain what this means, since "no compression" was deliberately programmed into the software by its author.
>>>>I won't tolerate any jittering, pixelation, or freezing.<<<<<<
Exactly.
If you have nothing better to do, you might try to tackle those file sizes I posted above. Or, read the following thread.
http://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=263800&highlight=d...
Bye.
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AfterDawn Addict
6 product reviews
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13. July 2005 @ 22:53 |
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I won't argue with you anymore. You do things your way and I'll do things my way. DVD Shrink alters files even set at no compression. Over and out. Good bye.
Mort
Rig #1 Asus Rampage Formula Mobo, Intel Core2Quad Q9450 CPU @ 3.55ghz, 2gb Corsair DDR2 1066 Dominator Ram @ 5-5-5-15, TR Ultra 120 Extreme w/ Scythe 9 blade 110 cfm 120mm Fan HSF, HIS Radeon 512mb HD3850 IceQ TurboX GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, CM Stacker 830 Evo Case, Rig #2 Asus P5W DH Deluxe Mobo, Intel C2D E6600 CPU @ 3.6ghz, 2gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 Ram @ 4-4-4-12-2t, Zalman CNPS9500LED HSF, Sapphire Radeon X850XT PE GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, Cooler Master Mystique Case, Viewsonic 20.1" Widescreen Digital LCD Monitor, Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 THX Desktop Speakers, http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=348351 http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=236435 |
AfterDawn Addict
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14. July 2005 @ 01:40 |
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Ok I did the same thing. Dvd shrink set at no compression and dvdd set default
File............Dvd shrink/bytes.........dvdd/bytes
VIDEO_TS.......6,875,136................6,877,184
VTS_01..........19,144,704...............19,144,704
VTS_01_1.......622,592..................622,592
VTS_02..........34,816...................34,816
VTS_02_1.......145,494,016..............145,494,016
VTS_03..........34,816...................34,816
VTS_03_1.......1,073,739,776............1,073,739,776
VTS_03_2.......1,073,739,776............1,073,739,776
VTS_03_3.......1,073,739,776............1,073,739,776
VTS_03_4.......788,168,704..............788,168,704
VTS_04..........34,816...................34,816
VTS_04_1.......247,580,672..............247,584,,768
VTS_05..........34,816...................34,816
VTS_05_1.......183,042,048..............183,042,048
VTS_06..........34,816...................34,816
VTS_06_1.......20,480...................20,480
VTS_07..........34,816...................34,816
VTS_07_1.......20,480...................20,480
VTS_08..........34,816...................34,816
VTS_08_1.......20,480...................20,480
VTS_09..........34,816...................34,816
VTS_09_1.......20,480...................20,480
VTS_10..........34,816...................34,816
VTS_10_1.......20,480...................20,480
VTS_11..........34,816...................34,816
VTS_11_1.......20,480...................20,480
VTS_12..........34,816...................34,816
VTS_12_1.......20,480...................20,480
VTS_13..........34,816...................34,816
VTS_13_1.......20,480...................20,480
VTS_14..........34,816...................34,816
VTS_14_1.......20,480...................20,480
VTS_15..........34,816...................34,816
VTS_15_1.......20,480...................20,480
VTS_16..........34,816...................34,816
VTS_16_1.......20,480...................20,480
Totals..........4,613,734,400............4,613,740,544
Notice the difference on the VIDEO_TS and VTS_04_1 folders and especially the total. Nuff said.
Mort
Rig #1 Asus Rampage Formula Mobo, Intel Core2Quad Q9450 CPU @ 3.55ghz, 2gb Corsair DDR2 1066 Dominator Ram @ 5-5-5-15, TR Ultra 120 Extreme w/ Scythe 9 blade 110 cfm 120mm Fan HSF, HIS Radeon 512mb HD3850 IceQ TurboX GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, CM Stacker 830 Evo Case, Rig #2 Asus P5W DH Deluxe Mobo, Intel C2D E6600 CPU @ 3.6ghz, 2gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 Ram @ 4-4-4-12-2t, Zalman CNPS9500LED HSF, Sapphire Radeon X850XT PE GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, Cooler Master Mystique Case, Viewsonic 20.1" Widescreen Digital LCD Monitor, Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 THX Desktop Speakers, http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=348351 http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=236435This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 14. July 2005 @ 02:18
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Bruce999
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14. July 2005 @ 06:39 |
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Mort:
Could you please be so kind as to let me know the title / region / edition of this DVD, so that I may conduct my own run. I believe I see where you made your error.
Thank you so much in advance,
Bruce
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AfterDawn Addict
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14. July 2005 @ 07:07 |
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Bruce999
"Mort:
Could you please be so kind as to let me know the title / region / edition of this DVD, so that I may conduct my own run. I believe I see where you made your error."
Thank you so much in advance
Shrink does that to all movies so it doesn't matter which movie you try. The result is a softer less crisp picuture.
After you've ripped with DVD Decrypter and then run the entire Ripped DVD through Shrink taking nothing out. Once that's done open the Decrypter and Shrink folders and compare the same files to each other (look for size changes). Even on zero compression Shrink processes the DVD and if you play both of them back and compare then you'll note that the Shrink folder has a softened and less sharp picture.
I also don't like menu's and back up the movie only except with concert footage, then I keep it all. Concert films usually have video artifacts already because the filming is done in dark auditorium's so compression doesn't really impact on them that much, in fact compression and the use of filters such as undot. Now about compression.
It's true that no matter how little you're compressing some loss is going to occur. The trick is to minimize and make the loss less noticeable. I've found as have many that if a video can brought down to under 7 gigs before encoding it, (not transcoding such as shrink)the result is virtually indistinguishable from original. In trial after trial no one could see the difference between the original DVD and the back up viewed on both my component patched HD TV, and my 22" Pro monitor.
I also occasionally split a DVD across two discs but that's only sometimes when a movie passes 2 and half hours or more and has lots of action scenes. In this case the number of frames will affect the picture quality more than the DVD's physical size. But more often than not I'll choose to encode(RB/CCE). I find that swapping out discs in the middle or more likely near the end of a movie in a two disc set, interferes with the pleasure of watching a movie more than a bit of loss that I have to squint to see the difference on does.
There are other considerations besides swapping out discs, such as cost and storage. I have over 600 movies which means if I had chosen to split them I'd be storing over 1200 discs. Plus even at $.46 each it would have cost me another $276.00 or more. All of those reasons plus the fact that the quality comparisons are so close in my view makes back up to a single disc the more sensible option. BTW you know that small difference I'm talking about, I think that you'll find that you're already getting that by running your movie through Shrink. Shrink doesn't separate its encoding engine from its ripper, zero compression doesn't mean zero processing.
Have a great day, and if you want to see some reports of other comparisons then go to this thread.
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/97052
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 14. July 2005 @ 07:17
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Bruce999
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14. July 2005 @ 09:09 |
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Sophocles:
Thanks so much for your opinions, and the link to more opinions of others.
RE:>>>> After you've ripped with DVD Decrypter and then run the entire Ripped DVD through Shrink taking nothing out. Once that's done open the Decrypter and Shrink folders and compare the same files to each other (look for size changes). <<<<
I have just finished this. Twice. There were no size changes (once the total files were added up), on Mystic River, and also on Million Dollar Baby. I wonder, could you try to find one DVD where this procedure actually does cause a change in the total size of the ripped files? If so, please post it.
I shall post my results as soon as I re-type them.
>>>Even on zero compression Shrink processes the DVD and if you play both of them back and compare then you'll note that the Shrink folder has a softened and less sharp picture. <<<
Thank you so much for your opinion here, but I have noted the opposite.
Mort, could you please be so kind as to post the name of the DVD you used, so I can try to replicate your results.
Thank you so much,
-Bruce
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 14. July 2005 @ 09:15
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AfterDawn Addict
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14. July 2005 @ 09:21 |
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Bruce999
The argument that DVD Shrink changes a Ripped DVD's content even with no compression isn't an opinion it's 100% a fact. A fact that I pointed out to ddlooping while I was beta testing the latest version of Shrink. Don't take my word for it check if for yourself. No compression using DVD Shrink will result in a decidedly softened picture quality and some of the files will have been changed from the original DVD ripped file.
BTW the opinions of others on those threads are solid and they're among the most knowledgeable people on the forum. If you read through it you'll discover references to the beta tests and notice that there are actual software developers among them such as dimad (author of DVDremake and jdobbs (author of DVD Rebuilder) and Vurbal (a moderator here who is noted for writing quality how to guides)
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 14. July 2005 @ 09:22
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AfterDawn Addict
6 product reviews
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14. July 2005 @ 09:39 |
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The disc is a compressed and encoded copy of The Forgotten. It makes no difference anyway as long as you use the same dvd for comparison. The totals where reported by windows when I opened the VIDEO_TS folders<properies of DVD Shrink and DVD Decrypter and obviously different right away.
Mort
Rig #1 Asus Rampage Formula Mobo, Intel Core2Quad Q9450 CPU @ 3.55ghz, 2gb Corsair DDR2 1066 Dominator Ram @ 5-5-5-15, TR Ultra 120 Extreme w/ Scythe 9 blade 110 cfm 120mm Fan HSF, HIS Radeon 512mb HD3850 IceQ TurboX GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, CM Stacker 830 Evo Case, Rig #2 Asus P5W DH Deluxe Mobo, Intel C2D E6600 CPU @ 3.6ghz, 2gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 Ram @ 4-4-4-12-2t, Zalman CNPS9500LED HSF, Sapphire Radeon X850XT PE GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, Cooler Master Mystique Case, Viewsonic 20.1" Widescreen Digital LCD Monitor, Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 THX Desktop Speakers, http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=348351 http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=236435 |
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Bruce999
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14. July 2005 @ 09:48 |
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Disc used: Million Dollar Baby / Region 1 / Disc 1
Procedure:
DVDDecrupyer was used to rip the entire contents of this original commercial DVD to a hard drive. All settings in DVDDecrypter were at their original default. The "mode" used was File mode.
Each file created on the hard drive was then checked for the actual size in bytes. These figures were recorded on the chart below.
Next, DVDShrink was used. The option to "Open Files" was used to select the folder that had been created in the first steps, above. After the initial analysis, the compression ratio was changed from "Automatic" to "No Compression." The entire disc was then ripped to a completely separate second folder on the hard drive, and the error message that reported the files were too big was ignored.
After this second rip had completed, each file was individually examined, and the size in bytes was recorded onto the chart below.
Finally, the sum totals of those files was calculated.
=== Results ===
Million Dollar Baby
Filename***** DVDDecrypter results***** DVDShrink results
VideoTS.BUP**** 10,240 bytes****10,240 bytes
VideoTS.IFO**** 10,240 bytes****10,240 bytes
VTS_01_0.BUP****96,256 bytes****96,256 bytes
VTS_01_0.IFO****96,256 bytes****96,256 bytes
VTS.01.0.VOB****132,300,800 bytes****132,300,800 bytes
VTS.01.1.VOB****1,073,739,776 bytes****1,073,739,776 bytes
VTS.01.2.VOB****1,073,739,776 bytes****1,073,739,776 bytes
VTS.01.3.VOB****1,073,739,776 bytes****1,073,739,776 bytes
VTS.01.4.VOB****839,274,496 bytes****1,073,739,776 bytes
VTS.01.5.VOB****1,073,739,776 bytes****1,073,739,776 bytes
VTS.01.6.VOB****1,073,739,776 bytes****1,073,739,776 bytes
VTS.01.7.VOB****909,197,312 bytes****674,732,032 bytes
Sum of the above** 7,249,684,480 bytes****7,249,684,480 bytes
=============
The results indicate that the total size of all of the various video file were identical. Each program merely differed in how they divided that video stream up into individual files.
If anyone can find a DVD where the file sizes differ (after they are summed up) then I would appreciate them posting their rersults.
I also hope that Mort will reveal the name of the DVD he used in his test, so that his results can be replicated.
Thanks so much,
-Bruce
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 14. July 2005 @ 09:58
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Bruce999
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14. July 2005 @ 09:56 |
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Mort:
>>>>The disc is a compressed and encoded copy of The Forgotten. It makes no difference anyway as long as you use the same dvd for comparison. The totals where reported by windows when I opened the VIDEO_TS folders<properies of DVD Shrink and DVD Decrypter and obviously different right away.<<<<
You are right, it would not matter whether the original discs had already been encoded or compressed. Except, of course, for the difficulty it presents in any sort of peer review or attempts to replicate your results.
Hmmm. Can you please send me the files (yes, I do have Broadband), so that I may try to duplicate your results? I know it will be a massive send, but I am prepared for this.
E-Mail: {REMOVED}
Thanks so much in advance.
-Bruce
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 15. July 2005 @ 04:28
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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14. July 2005 @ 10:10 |
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Bruce999
You don't need to use the same DVD, Shrink does it to virtually all DVD's. I say virtually because one day I might find a DVD that isn't affected shrink using no compression. Hence the 100% fact statement.
The one thing that I've learned over the years on line is that in a debate everyone is right in their own minds. Only the facts obtained through empirical study and an acceptance of the resulting evidence can alter the conviction of another.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
AfterDawn Addict
6 product reviews
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14. July 2005 @ 10:20 |
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The disc I experienced the most problems on useing dvd shrink set on no compression was The Notebook. The background on some scenes were jittery (for lack of a better word) and not constant with the foreground. I have no way to actually prove this to anyone without them being here and seeing it for themselves. I isolated the jittery background (on certain scenes) to the folder that dvd shrink set at no compression had ripped to my hdd prior to any editing or encoding. I ripped the same disc with dvdd and looked at the same scenes on my pc prior to any editing or encoding and the same scenes were perfect. If need be I'll surrender but I will no longer use dvd shrink set at no compression as a ripper. I know but can't prove the problems it can cause.
Mort
Rig #1 Asus Rampage Formula Mobo, Intel Core2Quad Q9450 CPU @ 3.55ghz, 2gb Corsair DDR2 1066 Dominator Ram @ 5-5-5-15, TR Ultra 120 Extreme w/ Scythe 9 blade 110 cfm 120mm Fan HSF, HIS Radeon 512mb HD3850 IceQ TurboX GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, CM Stacker 830 Evo Case, Rig #2 Asus P5W DH Deluxe Mobo, Intel C2D E6600 CPU @ 3.6ghz, 2gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 Ram @ 4-4-4-12-2t, Zalman CNPS9500LED HSF, Sapphire Radeon X850XT PE GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, Cooler Master Mystique Case, Viewsonic 20.1" Widescreen Digital LCD Monitor, Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 THX Desktop Speakers, http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=348351 http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=236435This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 15. July 2005 @ 07:14
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Bruce999
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14. July 2005 @ 11:03 |
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>>>>You don't need to use the same DVD, Shrink does it to virtually all DVD's.<<<<
Actually, I do. You see, the only way to quantify and duplicate his results are if I have the same files.
>>> I say virtually because one day I might find a DVD that isn't affected shrink using no compression. Hence the 100% fact statement.<<<<
Hmmm. We seem to have a direct disagreement on the definition of the word "fact."
>>>The one thing that I've learned over the years on line is that in a debate everyone is right in their own minds. Only the facts obtained through empirical study and an acceptance of the resulting evidence can alter the conviction of another.<<<<
We agree entirely. Except, you left out the part regarding peer review and duplicatable results. Hence, the reason for my request for the original files.
Take care,
-Bruce
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 14. July 2005 @ 11:04
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AfterDawn Addict
6 product reviews
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14. July 2005 @ 12:24 |
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The point I am trying to make is not whether or not dvdd and DVD Shrink set at no compression ripped folders are the same size but rather that DVD Shrink set at no compression used as a ripper processes the files and can noticeably alter some of them. As I stated earlier, I have no way of proving this but have witnessed it first hand. I see no further need for debate as we are both obviously set in our opinions. I can assure you I will never again use shrink as a ripper and wish you the best with whatever methods you prefer. Have a good day.
Mort
Rig #1 Asus Rampage Formula Mobo, Intel Core2Quad Q9450 CPU @ 3.55ghz, 2gb Corsair DDR2 1066 Dominator Ram @ 5-5-5-15, TR Ultra 120 Extreme w/ Scythe 9 blade 110 cfm 120mm Fan HSF, HIS Radeon 512mb HD3850 IceQ TurboX GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, CM Stacker 830 Evo Case, Rig #2 Asus P5W DH Deluxe Mobo, Intel C2D E6600 CPU @ 3.6ghz, 2gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 Ram @ 4-4-4-12-2t, Zalman CNPS9500LED HSF, Sapphire Radeon X850XT PE GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, Cooler Master Mystique Case, Viewsonic 20.1" Widescreen Digital LCD Monitor, Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 THX Desktop Speakers, http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=348351 http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=236435 |
AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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14. July 2005 @ 13:05 |
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Bruce999
Actually you don't! Let's stay on the same page if we can! What's in contention here is not the trait of a specific movie, but how DVD Shrink treats any and all movies. We don't have a disagreement on the meaning of the word fact we have a disagreement on the facts themselves. If DVD Shrink affects 100% of all movies passed through it, then that is a fact that it affects all movies. Period!!!!!!!!!!!! Get it!!!!
Probably not! Then try it. If you'd spend more time proving DVD Shrinks affect on DVD's wrong rather then trying to prove that it's right based on the force of your unsupported convictions alone, then this debate would be over.
Rip a DVD using Decrypter and then pass that file through DVD Shrink with no Compression and then compare each file in each folder. If you see any file that are in anyway altered then ask yourself, how? And what does that mean?
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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Bruce999
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14. July 2005 @ 15:08 |
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You wrote:
>>>>We don't have a disagreement on the meaning of the word fact we have a disagreement on the facts themselves.<<<<
Then, later:
>>>>If DVD Shrink affects 100% of all movies passed through it, then that is a fact that it affects all movies. Period!!!!!!!!!!!! Get it!!!! <<<<
quod erat demonstrandum
I rest my case.
-Bruce
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