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Legacy DVD-R Media vs the big boys
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ScubaBud
AfterDawn Addict
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4. September 2005 @ 02:51 |
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I'm wondering if anyone else has used Legacy media before and what has been their experience? I've had great success with them along with Sony and TY. I'm posting the tests to show the difference between Legacy, Sony and TY. All burns were done at 8X using the same movie, Sahara, and using AnyDVD with Nero Recode2, movie only.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. September 2005 @ 03:42
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akyllonen
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10. October 2005 @ 17:46 |
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WOW. Lots of PI Errors on those. I don't fully understand the Quality scores in this case. When I scan my burns, a typical disc will have PIE max ~10 or less and PIF totals of ~100 to as many as 400-500. A disc of mine looking like your SONYD08 would probably have a Quality Score of 0! And PIE max on the Yuden shouldn't even be playable at the end. I'll try and post a couple comparisons later this week. What kind of results do you get if you untick "Quick Scan"???
2.4 Celeron;512k ram; 80gig HD; 60gig HD; Windows XP(SP1).
Sony DRU-710A (BYX4)
DVD Shrink/DVD Decrypter.
TYG02;YUDEN002;MCC blanks.
Favorite Media: Sony 8x+R(MADE IN JAPAN)
Laptop: 1.4 Ghz;256k ram; 40 gig HD;Windows XP
NEC ND-6650A Burner
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Moderator
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10. October 2005 @ 23:14 |
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kivory666 has commented on those before, haven't looked for the posts yet..
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules *** |
AfterDawn Addict
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11. October 2005 @ 01:24 |
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Doc & Creaky,
How about those above comparing to mine? This is my backup of FFVII: Advent Children.
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AfterDawn Addict
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11. October 2005 @ 02:04 |
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Here is another scan with different speed on the same movie FFVII: Advent Children.
And another different speed scan on the same movie Advent Children.
And here is a scan from a MAXELL-002 of mine (The Wedding Date)
So what's the real deal?
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Senior Member
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11. October 2005 @ 04:29 |
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I've used Legacy DVD-Rs before. I have had no problems with them whatsoever.
My DVD Arsenal: BenQ DW1650 Drive, Plextor DVDRW PX-740A Drive, Nero 6.6.0.13, AnyDVD 6.1.8.4, CloneDVD2 2.9.1.2, DVD Shrink 3.2, DVD Decrypter 3.5.4.0, DVDFab HD Decrypter 3.2.1.0, VobBlanker 2.1.3.0, RipIt4Me 1.7.1.0, FixVTS 1.6.0.3
Proud PS3 owner! PS3 games currently owned: Fight Night Round 3, Heavenly Sword, Madden 07, Marvel Ultimate Alliance, Motorstorm, NHL 07, Resistance: Fall Of Man, Tony Hawk's Project 8This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 11. October 2005 @ 05:29
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ScubaBud
AfterDawn Addict
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11. October 2005 @ 06:06 |
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What is PIE/PIF?
DVD error correction is working on blocks of 32 kBytes each. That data is arranged, including all error correction data, in a 208x182 matrix, meaning there are 208 rows and 182 columns. If a line contains errors, it is called a "PIE". The number of errors does not matter. It only matters whether or not there are any errors. If too many bytes are corrupt, so that error correction inside that line does not work, it is called a PIF = Parity Inner Failure.
Nero CD-DVD Speed's quality score is based on Max PIF only.
Max PIF at 8ECC
1=99
2=99
3=99
4=98
5=97
6=97
7=96
8=95
9=95
10=94, etc.
Max PIF at 1ECC
1=98
2=95
3=93
4=90
5=84
6=77
7=70
8=64
9=57
10=50, etc.
As for my Asus 1604-P... It is really a Pioneer DVR-108 with NEC chips... In other words a hybrid of questionable quality but non the less, still produces good results. Would I purchase another Asus DVD burner... Never! <G>
@akyllonen
Here are the results with QuickScan unchecked on the "Sahara" Movie burned on TY DVD+R disk at the first post:
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 11. October 2005 @ 07:11
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AfterDawn Addict
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11. October 2005 @ 09:53 |
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So, if I understand this correctly, then the less the "PI Errors" and "PI Failures," the better the quality or media right?
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Moderator
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11. October 2005 @ 10:05 |
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have a look at the 1st link in my sig for atrocious PIF scans...
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
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AfterDawn Addict
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11. October 2005 @ 10:37 |
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Creaky,
So, is mine ok? Now, here's a new Maxell and Yuden both with QuickScan off.
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Moderator
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11. October 2005 @ 10:55 |
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i haven't yet figured out how to read the graphs from cd-dvd speed..
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
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ScubaBud
AfterDawn Addict
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11. October 2005 @ 11:16 |
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double post... opps
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 11. October 2005 @ 11:30
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ScubaBud
AfterDawn Addict
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11. October 2005 @ 11:29 |
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Quote:
So, if I understand this correctly, then the less the "PI Errors" and "PI Failures," the better the quality or media right?
My understanding is that there is much more to quality media then just these tests but they can be a good start. What I was trying to say before with my "Hybrid" Asus 1604=P Burner is that not every burner will do a PIE/PIF test correctly or better yet, at all and the results on my individual graphs kind of show this, (low PIF's but more then the norm PIE's.) I know that my results are fine because of playback on large screen TV's, mine and others as well so in other words, real use, no skipping, etc. PI Errors mean that your READER has found ERROR's "only" and that might be the way "it" reads the disk, etc. but when you see PI Failures it means that your DVD READER cannot READ that section and for all intensive purposes, the more of those, (PIF's) the worse your disk burn is. The rule is anything under 5 PIF's is excellent and I believe anything over 30 is trash or close to it.
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ScubaBud
AfterDawn Addict
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11. October 2005 @ 12:31 |
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I have three examples of the same "Sahara" DVD burn, all are Full Scans using Nero and all on different DVD Readers:
First my Asus 1604-P
This shows a PIE Max of 1,761 and yet the PIF Max is 2 with a Quality Score of 99.
Next is my DVD-Rom in my main PC
This shows a PIE Max of 71 and the PIF Max is 2 with a Quality Score of 95.
Last is my DVD-Rom in my test bench PC
This shows a PIE Max of 81 and the PIF Max is 3 with a Quality Score of 93.
The point is that it's not necessarily the media, but the DVD reader as well. This is also why I stated that the Asus 1604-P doesn't fair well on the PIE test which could puzzle others. The bottom line is that the PI Failures are all in the 1-3 mark for the same burn example.
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akyllonen
Member
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11. October 2005 @ 17:36 |
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alkohol-We have the same burner/firmware. My scans on YUDEN's are almost identicle to your's...except I rarely go over 2 PIF peak. The Maxells are pretty much the same as well...heard the drive does't support the Maxell's that is why they scan so bad....write strategy is not optimized in the f/w or something???
Scuba-DVD ROM's are not valid with Nero's Quality Test program...as stated on their website. I fail to see how the Quality Score can hit 99% on your scans...as other shown are clear superior in quality, but get lower scores (alkohol's scans). Is your drive supported on the website???
2.4 Celeron;512k ram; 80gig HD; 60gig HD; Windows XP(SP1).
Sony DRU-710A (BYX4)
DVD Shrink/DVD Decrypter.
TYG02;YUDEN002;MCC blanks.
Favorite Media: Sony 8x+R(MADE IN JAPAN)
Laptop: 1.4 Ghz;256k ram; 40 gig HD;Windows XP
NEC ND-6650A Burner
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ScubaBud
AfterDawn Addict
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11. October 2005 @ 17:49 |
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@akyllonen
Here is why...
Nero CD-DVD Speed's quality score is based on Max PIF only!
Here is how the score is determined by Nero depending on 8ECC or 1ECC
Max PIF at 8ECC
1=99
2=99
3=99
4=98
5=97
6=97
7=96
8=95
9=95
10=94, etc.
Max PIF at 1ECC
1=98
2=95
3=93
4=90
5=84
6=77
7=70
8=64
9=57
10=50, etc.
Do you understand what the difference is between PIE and PIF???
Also can you copy and paste the information on Nero's website about DVD-ROM drives not supported for Nero CD-DVD Speed Version 4.04 so I can reference it in the future? Thanks :)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 11. October 2005 @ 19:19
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akyllonen
Member
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11. October 2005 @ 21:24 |
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2.4 Celeron;512k ram; 80gig HD; 60gig HD; Windows XP(SP1).
Sony DRU-710A (BYX4)
DVD Shrink/DVD Decrypter.
TYG02;YUDEN002;MCC blanks.
Favorite Media: Sony 8x+R(MADE IN JAPAN)
Laptop: 1.4 Ghz;256k ram; 40 gig HD;Windows XP
NEC ND-6650A Burner
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ScubaBud
AfterDawn Addict
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12. October 2005 @ 02:21 |
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@akyllonen
Thanks for the other links. It's funny that my Asus Burner "does" show that it is supported in that old list from Version 3.0 but your Sony DRU-710A doesn't. Obviously it must be now if you are getting results just like some of the DVD-ROM drives I?ve used for comparisons.
This note was also shown in that list of drives you provided:
Note: the following list only applies to the Disc Quality test. All other functions of Nero CD-DVD Speed will run with any drive.
Do you think they might have improved this with Version 4.04 which is what I am using?
Here is the link stating what Nero CD-Speed uses for their Quality Score and can help explain why the scores are different.
http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=96285
On a last note off topic, (this thread was supposed to be about Legacy Media,) with a PC such as the one I am using:
P4 3.4HT @ 3.74 1GigPC3200
Twin 160 HDDs Asus MB P4P800 Dlx
Asus DRW-1604P with SONY08D1-YUDEN000 T02
You stated in your first post?Quote:
A disc of mine looking like your SONYD08 would probably have a Quality Score of 0! And PIE max on the Yuden shouldn't even be playable at the end.
So do you really think that one could get 1,761 PI Errors on TY DVD+R Media burning at 8X like one of the graphs above shows with any burner out there today and actually play? The average quality amount should be around 280 PIE's which is over 6 times the quality limit. The answer is that this graph is in error when it comes to PIE?s as I have stated previously. I have over 400 burns with this ASUS-1604P and again, all my burns play flawless on large screen LCD's.
Thanks!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. October 2005 @ 03:36
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