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Not all Memorex suck / Questions for you / etc
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Senior Member
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21. February 2006 @ 14:05 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Like CMCs? Then you better get used to this when you try to back them up to GOOD media.

I gave up after hearing the drive complain about having to read a CMC. Thats dye rot. Found another Verb/CMC in my junk disc pile, and i know the movie worked fine the first time i watched it on this disc. Must have been my firmware out of date that caused the disc to fail as it couldnt be high quality CMC discs. Why they are known around the world as the best.. AAARGGGHH. i almost puked..
Live with CRC errors and perfectly fine movies dieing on you if you like memorex and CMC thats all im saying. And if you do have a problem with them, look up JoeRyan. He knows how to get your CMCs to burn perfectly every time. I dont know how to do it, but he does, so look him up when you have problems. Tell him MaxBurn sent you..LOL :)



Die CMC Mag!!!
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JoeRyan
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22. February 2006 @ 05:20 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
All standard DVD discs are spin-coated. The dye comes from stainless steel drums outside the production chamber. Blu-ray may use a film method of applying the recording layer, but the microsilica hardcoat will be spin-coated also. Discs are not made the same way chips are.
There is no such thing as "dye rot" no matter how often people use the term.

Thousands of complaints without specifics could also mean thousands of incompatibilities, particularly if the drives are Sony (largest market share) or Toshiba drives that often do not support Taiwanese MID codes.

I can't find the thread that suggested CMC was the best in the world or that any drive could get any particular disc to burn perfectly. That, like dry rot, must have been made up.
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22. February 2006 @ 08:54 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Quote:
can't find the thread that suggested CMC was the best in the world or that any drive could get any particular disc to burn perfectly. That, like dry rot, must have been made up.
You're right JoeRyan, i and others here made up that term as a conspiriacy against you.. Dang your too smart for us..
Dye rot is a generic, non scientific term to describe how a perfectly normal looking CMC disc stored and burned on the same equipment as a Verb or Ty disc was burned on will deteriorate over time so that you cant copy the movie due to too many CRC errors. And the GOOD media ones survive with no problems, can be used over and over again with no problems. CMC discs were the common denominator in my non- scientific situation. I was using occam's razor.
Quote:
Occam's Razor (also spelled Ockham's Razor) is a principle attributed to the 14th-century English logician and Franciscan friar William of Ockham. It forms the basis of methodological reductionism, and is also called the principle of parsimony or law of economy.

In its simplest form, Occam's Razor states that one should make no more assumptions than needed. Put into everyday language, it says

Numquam ponenda est pluritas sine necessitate. [Latin]
which translates to:

Entities are not to be multiplied without necessity.
or

Multiples should never be used if not necessary.
or

"Shave off" (omit) unnecessary entities in explanations.
But the more commonly used translations are:

Given two equally predictive theories, choose the simpler, and The simplest answer is usually the correct answer.
For example, after a storm, one notices that a tree has fallen. Based on the evidence of the storm and the fallen tree, a reasonable hypothesis would be that the storm blew down the tree; this hypothesis requires one to suspend his or her disbelief very little, as there exist strong logical connections binding what one already knows to this solution (seeing and hearing storms does indeed tend to indicate the existence of storms; storms are more than capable of felling trees). A rival hypothesis claiming that the tree was knocked over by marauding 200-metre tall space aliens, while being theoretically possible and arriving at the same end result (namely, the tree being knocked down), requires many additional assumptions (concerning the very existence of aliens, their ability and desire to travel interstellar distances, their ability and desire to (un-)intentionally knock down trees, the alien biology that allows them to be 200 metres tall in terrestrial gravity, etc.), each additional assumption itself having a possibility of error and effectively diminishing the likelihood of the hypothesis overall. Thus the theory with less assumptions is logically the more practical option.

The principle of Occam's Razor has inspired numerous expressions including: "parsimony of postulates", the "principle of simplicity", the "KISS principle" (Keep It Simple, Stupid), and in some medical schools "When you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras".

Adding another layer of irony, many modern scientists and mathematicians seriously propose that the basic "entities" of reality may be "bits of information", for example, the digits of binary code, in which case the entities of William of Ockham might be seen as foreshadowing the logic of George Boole and modern computing.

In the popular fictional television series X-Files the character Fox Mulder references the Occam's Razor as the "Occam's principle of limited imagination" probably in an attempt to emphasize that, after all, it is still a guideline rather than a scientific law.

In the 1997 film "Contact" starring Jodie Foster and Matthew McConoghay, McConoghay's charcter Palmer Joss refrenced Occam's Razor as a reason to disblieve Elenor Arroway's (Jodie Foster) claim that she really had made alien contact.



Because there are an infinite number of theories which fit any body of evidence equally well, and all make radically different predictions, if science cannot choose between them, then science can never determine any useful theories. So far the only known way to usefully choose between the infinite number of theories which fit a body of evidence is Occam's Razor. For this reason Occam's Razor is seen as an indispensable aspect of science, without which science ceases to function entirely.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam's_Razor

Simple answer, for me getting rid of CMCs solved my data fading away problems.
But please, go help people with your new found knowledge that CMCs are great quality plants. HELP them. That's the only way you can get me to change my concept of CMC discs being crap. You get a bunch of ppl burning and keeping their data or movies for 4 years and getting scans like i did on all their CMCs, then yes, my thought of them being crap would change. I still wouldnt buy them, but wouldnt feel as bad if i got stuck with some.
Anyone can use whatever disc they want, really, i have no personal stake in this, other than i would like to see people helped when we give advice. Not hurt, helped. Thats all. If any of this was taken as a personal attack on my part, that was not my intention. I just have an opposing view of statements that claim CMCs are quality discs.
Quote:
There are some poor quality factories making discs, but Ritek, Prodisc, and CMC are not among them.
if they turn out poor quality disc, they are poor quality factories.
Quote:
My only suggestion was that those who complain about quality ought to identify the quality problem so that #1 can be ruled out.
I identified the quality problem enough for me. I got rid of the CMCS and my lack of quality went with them. I ruled them out of my house, and away from my computer.
Best in the world was a joke line, here is what i said
Quote:
But many ppl reading this might say i saw joeryan or luckepene say Memorex was great, best burnt at 16x and slap a label on it too. Then they come to the Nero forum with their problems.. Thats where you could help. But you will probably be off to another thing by then, and us regulars who tried to discourage this are left to clean up YOUR mess. See where im coming from.
great, not best in the world. and in the other post,
Quote:
Must have been my firmware out of date that caused the disc to fail as it couldnt be high quality CMC discs. Why they are known around the world as the best.. AAARGGGHH. i almost puked..
Live with CRC errors and perfectly fine movies dieing on you if you like memorex and CMC thats all im saying.
i was making a joke... its called humor, sarcasim in this case, you would have to read that whole post to get it, and maybe you wouldnt, but i do that. Attempts at humor once in a while..:)
Quote:
My point all along has been that until actual descriptions of problems appear, it is unscientific to proclaim one brand or another as poor quality.
I dont need scientific exact answers when crappy disc turns out to be CMC and i see it happening to many other ppl all over the world. K.I.S.S. the disc is the common denominator for whatever reason..
Now it could be no one has figured out the correct firmware update to burn a CMC properly, but K.I.S.S. says the much more logical theory is CMC is crap. It requires much less leap in logic to see that other than trying to find some obscure reason why these discs fail for most ppl that ISNT the disc causing it. Very strange set of circumstances going on to cause this to happen for most ppl, and the disc being the thing most in common, but not the problem. Just using basic logic to determine CMCs are junk. No, its not scientific with conrols and such, but we are talking about common ppl, not scientist. And ppl use what they can afford. Now it would be a great service to the poor if you could get cheap memosux to work without costing them more money, but keeping the discs. See, i even opened it up to beyond firmware updates for you. Help people thats what im saying. Dont go around saying people have to subject a failed disc to a lab test before ruling it out as bad. This isnt a court of law, we dont need beyond a reasonable doubt, and we dont want our fixes to cost ppl more money.

I disagree with you, but you go ahead and use them. I dont rate ritek down there with CMC but they have dye rot problems also in some codes.. Dye rot,, said it again... :)

Im thru, i wont be baited anymore.



Die CMC Mag!!!

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 22. February 2006 @ 10:26

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22. February 2006 @ 09:28 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
i retracted my reply, no point debating stuff with those that 'know best'. Creaky goes off to watch some of the movies made on decent quality media, the ones i have on Bulkpaq media (not CMC/Memorex but the same difference) barely play back, certainly don't re-copy. i've done enough scientific stuff i tried various ways to copy the movies (just data on discs after all) and CRC errors are corruption whichever way it's looked at. all the firmware in the world, and defiant "it's not the discs" attitudes, along with a helping of us regulars apparently lying thru our teeth to get ppl to buy decent media (which lets not forget costs no more than utter rubbish media!) just don't cut it for me, i know CRC errors (corruption) when i see it, though funny that i don't get the same issues on my quality media. Period.



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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 22. February 2006 @ 09:28

Senior Member
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22. February 2006 @ 09:36 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
You are right creaky. These things always come down to proof, and we have none, just more arguments. Scans will be dis-regarded for whatever reason, and personal stories we tell of using these discs are deluded lies on our part. Why those discs really would have worked if that factory got its firmware correct. We must be stupid. Up2date firmare would only get it to burn properly, wouldnt explain why they died a few months later. Oh well,,

For me, my standard answer is going to be "Prove your way is better, or that you know best". If they can't do that by helping people here, then they are on a secret agenda to gain attention, followers, or something, but it sure isnt to help people here with problems..

Im really finished now.. :)



Die CMC Mag!!!
AfterDawn Addict
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22. February 2006 @ 10:26 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Memorex and other CMC coded producers are probably subsidized by the MPA, and is actually a protection scheme.....:-)


JoeRyan
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22. February 2006 @ 10:30 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
The Lite-On SOHW-1633 drive with f/w BSOY is compatible with both CMC MAG AE1 (DVD-R 8X) and CMC MAG E01 (DVD+R 8X). The LG GSA-4166B with firmware 1.01 is incompatible with both media.
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22. February 2006 @ 10:42 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
and my various drives (present and past) are compatible with most if not all media, including the fabled CMC....

edit- virtually all the posts i (and other ppl) comment on recommend ppl update their burners' firmware (if it's not already up to date), and guess what, as i've commented in previous examples, the subpar media is nearly always the thing that's sat there shuffling it's feet awkwardly when all necessary tweaks have been done, ie when a system/settings are as near to correct as can be; yet still the subpar media is the one thing that doesn't (still) work in most cases. funny that.



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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 22. February 2006 @ 10:47

AfterDawn Addict

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22. February 2006 @ 10:57 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
You know this thread is really rediculous. Most drives are compatible with cmc mag media and will write to them without any problems but that still doesn't solve the problem that media made by cmc magnetics will usually become unreadable in 6 months to a year.

Both my litey 1653 and benq 1620 will burn cmags just fine and they will play back right after they are burned but in a few months they have playback issues and are unrippable due to excessive errors.

Why is it that a vast majority of experienced senior members and addicts recommend against using media made by cmc mag and do recommend media made by verbatim (mcc) and taiyo yuden? Do you think we are just plain stupid and do this just because we like the sound of their names or they are paying us to badmouth cmc mag? I don't hardly think so. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but facts speak for themselves. Use whatever make of media you like but I for one will never again use any media made by cmc mag and I have based this decision on experience. Mort out.

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JoeRyan
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22. February 2006 @ 10:58 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
How do you account for the fact that some people use the media you denigrate and have no problems either recording data or retrieving them a year or two later?
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22. February 2006 @ 11:00 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
indeed, some of the 1000s (not a made up figure) of logfiles do continue to have good luck with CMC discs, but the emphasis is on some in 1000s...



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22. February 2006 @ 11:07 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
And very few have any problems with media made by mitsubishi chemical co. or taiyo yuden. I'm done here.

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22. February 2006 @ 11:12 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
me too, dunno why i'm wasting my breath either :)



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JoeRyan
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22. February 2006 @ 11:19 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Note the drives and firmware versions of those who have had success with media others claim to be of very poor quality. Note the pattern. If it's proof you want, there is some evidence there. Taiyo Yuden and MCC manufactured Verbatim are superior to run-of-the mill discs, but many run-of-the mill discs work well enough with a drive compatible with them. That has been my point all along.
AfterDawn Addict

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22. February 2006 @ 11:25 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
OK this is my final post here for reals. One point I've been trying to get across is why buy run of the mill media when you can buy better top notch first class media for the same price or less?

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22. February 2006 @ 17:29 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
You know Joe Ryan, I'm college educated as well and have taken critical and creative thinking class. You seem like a highly intelligent individual. Noone's questioning that. How can you say that firmware updates are responsible for most success with TY media? It's true that a knowledgeable user can have success with CMC Mag. But the dye will fade, and there will be a ton more coasters and boot failures, that's the truth of the matter. There is empirical evidence to that effect. The 1,000's of posts that each member answers in his/her area of expertise. 1,000's of successful burns onto quality media by burn enthusiaists. 100's of failed burns to CMC Media. Where's your empirical evidence that CMC Mag is any good? My number one enemy in the PS2 arena is CMC Mag media. Noobs read posts like yours and think quality media doesn't matter. It doesn't matter as much with stand alone DVD players. But in the case of the PS2, the laser is extremely picky. The people that have issues are the ones that completely disregard what knowledgeable members tell them and use crap media. It could be CMC Mag, Imation, Matrix Media, Bulqpaq, or whatever. One thing that holds true for all forums is that at least half of all DVD related posts are due to sub par media. That's probably a conservative estimate. The people on these boards have scene this argument time and again. If you use crappy media, then you'll have to live with the results. You can get good Taiyo Yuden or Verbatim media for cheaper than CMC Mag. Why on Earth would anybody pay more for lower quality media? If you can answer that one, maybe you're as smart as you think you are.

JoeRyan
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23. February 2006 @ 16:53 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
"You know Joe Ryan, I'm college educated as well and have taken critical and creative thinking class. You seem like a highly intelligent individual. Noone's questioning that. How can you say that firmware updates are responsible for most success with TY media?"

Never said that. However Japanese drive manufacturers do include TY in their write strategy tables. It is hit or miss with many other discs.

"It's true that a knowledgeable user can have success with CMC Mag. But the dye will fade, and there will be a ton more coasters and boot failures, that's the truth of the matter. There is empirical evidence to that effect. The 1,000's of posts that each member answers in his/her area of expertise. 1,000's of successful burns onto quality media by burn enthusiaists. 100's of failed burns to CMC Media. Where's your empirical evidence that CMC Mag is any good? My number one enemy in the PS2 arena is CMC Mag media. Noobs read posts like yours and think quality media doesn't matter."

Quality does matter. I never said or implied that it did not. If a disc is incompatible with a drive, one cannot determine its quality except with non-destructive tools that measure physical parameters.

"It doesn't matter as much with stand alone DVD players. But in the case of the PS2, the laser is extremely picky. The people that have issues are the ones that completely disregard what knowledgeable members tell them and use crap media. It could be CMC Mag, Imation, Matrix Media, Bulqpaq, or whatever. One thing that holds true for all forums is that at least half of all DVD related posts are due to sub par media. That's probably a conservative estimate. The people on these boards have scene this argument time and again. If you use crappy media, then you'll have to live with the results. You can get good Taiyo Yuden or Verbatim media for cheaper than CMC Mag. Why on Earth would anybody pay more for lower quality media? If you can answer that one, maybe you're as smart as you think you are."

I believe I already answered that one in an earlier post. If people can buy TY or Verbatim discs cheaper than they can buy CMC discs, they should jump at the bargain.
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23. February 2006 @ 20:19 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Quote:
I believe I already answered that one in an earlier post. If people can buy TY or Verbatim discs cheaper than they can buy CMC discs, they should jump at the bargain.
Memorex, 50pk for $10~~~~~~~~ $0.2 per disc
>50% chance of failure ->25pk for $10~~~$0.4 per disc

Quality media, TY or Verbatims

50pk for $15(you can buy cheaper on-line)~~~$0.3 per disc, with a rate of success of 100%.

So, even if the initial price is cheaper for Memorex, TY or Verbatim is still a bargain, no matter what! Not to mention the frustration, time wasted, and discs lost in time with Memorex!
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23. February 2006 @ 21:10 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Okay JoeR, just to prove that we will report all evidence, here is the only CMC MAG disk that I have found which is still viable after like 6 months. I believe the age of the disk to be about 2 years old. The disk is a Philips DVD+R 4X. Anything else from CMC MAG has died quickly.

I'll be interested to see what it looks like another year from now.


This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. February 2006 @ 21:13

Gringle
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24. February 2006 @ 04:07 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
I think[?] I have to agree; with the original question [preposition] Not all Memorex sucks! ( Josh logan??) a {fine space captains name..}

Along came Joe, [Ryan.] a fine Irish name.]

While 99.999% of us, use nicks; we have a sppaace captitan, and a Paddie, in our midst.

And JOe; with his/her with their; limited team, will advise him/her, on their use, of English, which falls, beyond the pail.

So I agree; All mem0oorex don't Suk;;; Just Most!!!


I think Memories should last, a bit longer??

PS
(only sixty Riteks to go) :)















El gringle..
berger103
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24. February 2006 @ 04:17 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Another year or so that scan may show a quality score of 90, then going down every year, while taiyo yudens and verbatims will show a good quality score for a very long time, estimate life is about 50 plus years for TY, and VERBS.



[img]http://www.userbars.co.uk/ubs/clonedvd2 user91.gif[/img]


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24. February 2006 @ 04:33 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
I can't fully appreciate your sarcasm as I'm a little too lazy to read all five pages of this thread. I will agree that Memosux blows, the best it'll code out too is Ricoh/Ritek, which is serviceable for movies, but not for the PS2. TY and Verb's may cost more but they're worth it (especially in the case of the PS2). Alkohol said on the first page of this thread that 95% of Memorex media is crap. I'll agree with that whole heartedly. I only wish my knowledge of media was on par with that of the PS2, so I could've blown this thread wide open. Though we had some heavy hitters in here and still couldn't dissuade the doubters. This thread has grown stagnant. Good points have been made, rebutted by hypothetical situations and psuedo intellectual jibberish. The empirical evidence that massive amounts of Memorex DVD media blows is littered on the AD Servers in almost every section that involves DVD Media. One need only to browse the junk piles of threads about "I can't get my backup movie/game to work." What's the number one cause of these threads? Cheap media far and away is the number one cause. What's the number one resolution to these threads? Switching to good media is by far the most common resolution. I don't need to argue this point. I know what the facts are from being on this board daily for 6 months. The empirical evidence also overwhelmingly supports the fact good media resolves 80% of DVD burning related issues. So there are 1,000's of threads, several Senior Members, AD Addicts on one side, and a couple high school debate champions on the other. So let the people reading this decide who's right.

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 24. February 2006 @ 04:35

Gringle
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24. February 2006 @ 07:55 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
@Tokijin
AfterDawn Addict:

A well made closing arguement, "Silly schoolboys" [Let's let em off the hook?]

I think[?] most folks know "Oscar's" definition of 'Sarcasmun'..

One with a more jaded mind than mine; would think your're their team leader...


PS
58 riteks ter go.... :)








El gringle..
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24. February 2006 @ 09:13 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
'fraid some ppl like to argue for the sake of arguing when it comes to dvd media, especially when it comes to Memorex, they'll argue with their last breath if need be. Now my latest example of bad media from last night isn't Memorex but Bulkpaq whose FAKE TY discs i despise with a passion. i had recently purchased a new Hi Definition DVD player (very nice indeed) and my previously watchable copy of Kill Bill 1 (on Bulkpaq - this very disc was always completely uncopyable from here - http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/193298) was skipping like mad throughtout the film. so it was obviously time to reburn from the original onto Verbatim TY discs. then was able to watch a 100% intact copy of the film. Looks like it's time to start weeding out the atrocious Bulkpaq's, but i'll wager no-one will join the thread and pedantically argue that Bulkpaq are great media.



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berger103
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24. February 2006 @ 09:18 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
I had the same thing with Bulkpaq creaky..skipping throught the whole movie, then i didnt even get to see the ending because the disc froze!! Made a copy with Sony MIJ-(taiyo yuden) and it played perfectly.



[img]http://www.userbars.co.uk/ubs/clonedvd2 user91.gif[/img]


 
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