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Will AD Go Away?????????
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AfterDawn Addict
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12. October 2005 @ 16:56 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Quote:
AfterDawn Ltd is a privately owned company located in Finland
Just read this story over at CDFreaks and wanted to know if this has any impact on the Forum. I know that other forums just disappear for these very reasons.

http://www.cdfreaks.com/news/12537
Quote:
Finland makes illegal to make backups and talk about DRM
Posted by Quakester2000 on 12 October 2005 - 21:05 - Source: The Register


heystoopid used our news submit to tell us that Finland?s government has decided to pass a bill that makes it illegal even to copy media for personal use. The new copy law has already been criticised for both being badly written and for ignoring consumer rights. The legislation was passed with 121 votes to 35, with 40 MP's not present.

Finland had in the past always allowed people to make copies of their own digital products for personal use. Personal backups were allowed because of the extra tax put on blank media to compensate artists and copyright holders for such actions. The new bill makes it illegal to advertise, provide or possess tools that bypass DRM (Digital Rights Management).

P2Pnet has also pointed out that the bill also makes it illegal to discuss DRM breaking, tools or anything in organised groups that could disable DRM even for personal use.

The Finnish president has the authority to veto this new bill but this has rarely been exercised so is likely to pass into law unhindered. Th the bill was edited to ask the copyright holders to voluntarily not prosecute those that made personal backups.

The Finnish government voted yesterday to make it illegal to copy media, even for personal use, if you have to subvert copy protection to do so. The legislation was passed by 121 votes to 34. Forty-four MPs were absent. The updated copyright protection laws have been criticised for ignoring consumers' rights, and the bill itself has been branded confusing and badly worded.
Until now, Finland had allowed copying for personal use, and had a blank media levy in place to compensate authors. But under the new laws, not only will copying for personal use become illegal, so will possessing, distributing or advertising tools that break copy protection. P2PNet points out that the law prohibits even "organised discussion" of such things.

The Finnish president does have the right to veto the new legislation, but this right is very rarely exercised. According to Finnish News Agency STT, the government appended a note to the legislation asking content producing industries to voluntarily agree not to prosecute individuals for making a few copies for their own use.



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gstar20
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12. October 2005 @ 21:16 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
-ireland-
DVDXCopy Chief Moderator also posted this

http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/243380

I really hope not since it was devastating what happend to dvd decrypters forums.

I hope someone can shed a little light and give us the "Not to worry" sign.

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12. October 2005 @ 23:48 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
i wouldn't panic just yet, there are plenty of other topics to discuss here, it aint like people stay on topic anyway. if i do hear anything i will pass on the info.





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I hate titles

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12. October 2005 @ 23:56 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
We're extremely aware of this and have been, first time ever, very active politically to fight the bill and helped to push the controversy to mainstream media in Finland before the parliament vote (well, in small country like Finland, we are big part of mainstream media :-), but it unfortunately didn't help. And as we're extremely well-known in Finland, it is obvious that we're first ones in line when the legislation comes into effect. The date has not been set yet, although it is 99% certain that president will approve the bill, despite public opinion against it. Ministry of education expects the law to come into effect around beginning of December or 1st of January, 2006. We're in progress of finding alternative solutions for this dilemma and we will keep you posted when something happens.

About 90% of the latest news in our Finnish site have been about this topic :-)

Petteri Pyyny (pyyny@twitter)
Webmaster
https://AfterDawn.com/
AfterDawn Addict
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13. October 2005 @ 00:40 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
So does that mean the whole site will have to close or will discussions about piracy, backing up media for your own use, copy protection etc. be removed from the site.

I really don't want AD to end. This truely is the best site on the net today. There must be a way to counter the law or something.



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The best MP3 ripper around (Exact Audio Copy)
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I hate titles

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13. October 2005 @ 00:51 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
My advice: Don't panic. We will find a way :-)

Petteri Pyyny (pyyny@twitter)
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AfterDawn Addict
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13. October 2005 @ 06:29 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
I'm panicing already!I made new friends here! my day starts with reading AD and it also ends reading AD! Life won't be the same if this goes down!
AfterDawn Addict
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13. October 2005 @ 06:32 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
@IHoe

I feel your panic, and agree. AD is like my morning and evening dvd newspaper. We will all be like those hurricane evacuees looking for a new home.


I hate titles

35 product reviews
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13. October 2005 @ 06:35 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
It wont, we will find a solution and if someone plans to take us to court, we wont give in, but give a good fight instead. You wont see a situation where we'd announce "ohmigod, they threatened to take us to court, thus we shut down". No, if somebody states they'll drag us to court, we will call their game and go there. We have accomplished simply too much to give up too easily. But yes, as a first option, we will look into options to circumvent the law that prevents circumvention of copy protections =)

Petteri Pyyny (pyyny@twitter)
Webmaster
https://AfterDawn.com/
Senior Member
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13. October 2005 @ 08:20 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Would the easiest solution not be to find a country that does not have such tight laws and start hosting there to avoid going to court?
AfterDawn Addict
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13. October 2005 @ 08:27 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Now I know why Slysoft is in Antigua, nobody cares there. Keep it all offshore.


This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. October 2005 @ 08:27

Senior Member
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13. October 2005 @ 08:40 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Right now it seems like the best idea to avoid money hungry lawyers. Whatever happens aD has our support :)

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. October 2005 @ 08:42

AfterDawn Addict
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13. October 2005 @ 08:45 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Since the movie companies have realized they have a goldmine in DVD sales, they now want to squeeze every last drop out of the consumer, heaven forbid they should loose a penny.


AfterDawn Addict
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13. October 2005 @ 09:05 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
now we go into the grey areas of big business.... arnie. Why do they sell us writers just to make laws on how you can use them? You opened up the can, Arnie..... now all the worms can get out! LOL
I hate titles

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13. October 2005 @ 09:08 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Moving servers is not the pain, moving company would be a pain and also, it might still need to move the people who maintain the site as well, as we don't exactly operate anonymously. And the good thing is that legal costs in Finland aren't that excessive, if we have to go through that process.

But as said, even though we are the ones in line here, I'm not losing sleep over the issue, I'm confident that we'll find a solution and obviously, we will update you when it happens. There's still small bureaucratic chance that the law would get delayed.

Petteri Pyyny (pyyny@twitter)
Webmaster
https://AfterDawn.com/
ddp
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13. October 2005 @ 12:03 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
or vetoed
Doggy_Bot
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13. October 2005 @ 13:39 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
I'm sure it will be fine :) dRD is right don't panic...

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13. October 2005 @ 14:08 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
we'd still have the Nero forum (arghhhh) i guess :)



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I hate titles

35 product reviews
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14. October 2005 @ 00:23 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
ddp: The problem with president's veto is that Finland reduced the president's powers dramatically in '90s and now, if president vetos the law once, it goes back to parliament. If parliament approves it again without modifications, it gets automatically approved, without president. Thus, president's role in approving laws is purely cosmetic.

Petteri Pyyny (pyyny@twitter)
Webmaster
https://AfterDawn.com/
ddp
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14. October 2005 @ 15:02 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
waste of money having a president than.
I hate titles

35 product reviews
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15. October 2005 @ 00:02 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
And yep, president approved the legislation yesterday and it will come into effect probably 1st of January, 2006.

Petteri Pyyny (pyyny@twitter)
Webmaster
https://AfterDawn.com/
aabbccdd
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15. October 2005 @ 01:11 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
dRD we all have faith in you and your great site that things will work out fine .if theres ANYTHING we members can do let us know were ALL willing to help anyway we can.

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 15. October 2005 @ 01:16

I hate titles

35 product reviews
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15. October 2005 @ 01:19 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
aabbccdd: Thanks. We've anticipated the legislation for years now -- although not in such draconian form as it now was approved in -- and have made variety of plans to cope with the situation and are in talks with our lawyers already to see what's doable and what's not. One option might be that we simply remove the most obvious problems (==rippers) from the site, but continue otherwise as usual and if we are sued, well, we simply go through the whole process and see what the courts think about it. That would surely cost money in legal fees, but it would at least buy us several years extra time.

There's also one issue with the legislation that hasn't been defined properly -- the law talks about how it is illegal to distribute tools that allow circumventing efficient technical copy protections. Can one claim CSS to be efficient, if it has been hacked with couple of lines of Perl code and is widely known how to break it? Surely, for distrubuting tools to allow circumventing future copy protections that would cause trouble (HDCP being the most notable one), but at least the well-established tools would remain in safety.

Petteri Pyyny (pyyny@twitter)
Webmaster
https://AfterDawn.com/
AfterDawn Addict
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15. October 2005 @ 03:22 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
so this site........ in the future......... won't be able to update people on how to rip DVDs with new encryptions! wow..... just found it and now BIG BROTHER is taking it away!!!!!
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I hate titles

35 product reviews
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15. October 2005 @ 03:34 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
IHoe: Don't into conclusions, we don't know yet how we'll cope with this new situation, thus speculating about it is rather pointless. Anyway, we know the situation, you pretty much know the situation and we're working to find a solution and will update our users when we find one.

Petteri Pyyny (pyyny@twitter)
Webmaster
https://AfterDawn.com/
 
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