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Dual layer worth it or not ?
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puds1970
Newbie
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28. October 2005 @ 13:41 |
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Im cosidering buying some dual layer discs for personal DVD backups I was just wondering whether people who have tried this think its worth it.
Im not bothered about the extra cost or even the more time it will take but what Im looking for is a difference in quality (if any), I have a pioneer 109 recently upgraded my firmware (1.56) I believe, and was also wondering what are some really good dual layer discs to do it with and if possible a place in the UK to buy them and whether 1 click dvd copy version 4 would do a decent job.
Thanks in advance
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mrchub
Member
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28. October 2005 @ 13:56 |
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Until very recently I would have said definitely no. But in the last few weeks newegg has had Ritek white inkjet-printable dual-layer discs (not hub-printable, unfortunately) for about 2 bucks a disc, plus there's a "combo special" where you can get a few more non-printable ones for free. I've burned about 15 so far without a problem (always using ISO mode with imgburn, the successor to DVD Decrypter). Then again, newegg doesn't ship overseas, and I have no idea how much DL media costs in the UK.
printable: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817132395
non-printable: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16817132394
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. October 2005 @ 13:57
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puds1970
Newbie
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29. October 2005 @ 00:34 |
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Thanks for that mrchub but is there a noticable difference in quality of picture/sound, or do I go for some Taiyo yuden discs, which seem to get some fantastic reviews and if anyone in the UK has purchased any please let me know if they were genuine.
Thanks
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AfterDawn Addict
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29. October 2005 @ 01:02 |
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i believe my buddy creaky gets his new Verbatim TYs from svp in the UK~ :) these are definitely genuine Taiyo Yuden manufactured under the Verbatim label, TYG02 media ID coded and i have verified the authenticity of his TYs when he posted up the inner hub number awhile ago somewhere in this dvd media forum :)
i'm sure he can go more into detail about them; im here in the U.S., so i am not familiar with all the reputable online retailers over there in the UK~ :) but, in regards to your question about Dual/Double layer (DLs), in MY opinion, it's worth it on the really long/large sized movies, with ZERO compression, this is the only time you will get a TRUE 1:1 copy, while even with some compression on fine quality media such as Taiyo Yuden, the video/audio quality is VERY GOOD, it is STILL not in fact, a TRUE 1:1 copy~ :)
DL naturally solves this issue forcing "compression" completely out of the equation, nothing needs to be edited out, nothing needs to be re-authored...all extras included with commentaries available, etc.
if you want 100% reproduction of the original, everything retained from the original...DL media is THE ONLY WAY TO GO~ :)
it really depends on what you like and dislike...even with compression on TY media, to ME, i think it's "good enough" to suit MY needs when viewing on my widescreen tv or my plasma; but, to someone else, perhaps you or another member, the backups i made with either a little or a lot of compression is not satisfactory IN THEIR EYES...it comes down to a person's OWN preferences in evaluating if the quality is "good enough" or not TO THEM. :)
i have about 50+ backups now on the DL media, i've used only Verbatim DVD+R DLs (made in singapore) and Ritek Ridata DVD+R DLs (made in taiwan naturally) thus far, have not had a single "coaster" yet *knocks on wood* and the playback is FLAWLESS on BOTH brands/manufacturers, it's an EXACT duplicate of my original that i store safely away in my closet :)
so, with my little experience to add to the "bigger picture" of DL backups and such, use YOUR best judgement and decide what is "satisfactory" to YOUR eyes when you compare a compressed video on great quality Taiyo Yudens to that of an uncompressed 1:1 copy onto the DL of your choice~ i would recommend the 2 kinds i mentioned above, with Verbatim being my #1 choice~
good luck
docTY~
Recommended Media:
Taiyo Yuden 4x dvd-r TYGO1/ 8x dvd-r TYGO2/ 8x dvd+r YUDEN000T02/ 16x dvd+r YUDEN000T03
Verbatim 8x dvd+r MCC003
Verbatim dvd+r DL (MKM001)= flawless no compression backups
"Do Yourself A Favor, Use The Good Stuff
TY & Verbs 4 Life~ :)" ~docTY~
"Its better to be quiet and appear stupid, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
I am always prepared to recognize that there can be two points of view - mine and one that is probably wrong - John Gorton
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puds1970
Newbie
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29. October 2005 @ 01:11 |
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Thanks a lot for that kivory a great help.
I have a fussy DVD player (Denon 3910) although I know this is not a forum for discussing DVD players, its the media + the compatability issue I was a little worried about with a fussy player and as I have a pioneer 109 burner which has a good rep for burning I think I'll get some Verbatims DLS at £3 a pop expensive but if I want to give it a proper tryout I may as well leave nothing to chance.
Thanks
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aabbccdd
Suspended permanently
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29. October 2005 @ 01:21 |
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puds1970 book typing your dvd+r media to DVD-ROM will help make the media more compatable with your standalone player .but iam not quite sure you can booktype with a pioneer burner
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29. October 2005 @ 01:22
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AfterDawn Addict
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29. October 2005 @ 01:36 |
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@ puds,
believe it or not, i TOO have a fussy dvd player, while it's a discontinued model from Denon, i think the internal components are quite similar to that of yours :) i have the Denon DVD-5900, this was THE FLAGSHIP model a few years ago, got it awhile ago and have been VERY pleased with it's performance...AND i also have the pioneer dvr-109 drive that you possess, however, mine is flashed with a hacked/modified firmware to ALLOW booktyping~ buffalo firmware actually available from their japanese site :) but, to cross-flash it requires a few steps you MIGHT be concerned about, and it WILL VOID your warranty on it if you even attempt to try it~ :)
but, it's UP TO YOU, i would get yourself acquainted with firmware before ever THINKING of cross-flashing and using modified firmware, KNOW the risks involved and if you are willing...i can help you out further... :) just let me know...
however, Booktyping my DVD+R DL media has proven VERY successful on this "fussy" Denon dvd-5900 that i own, it DOES in fact playback flawlessly; while i do NOT know whether this will hold true for YOUR denon, i'm just letting you know booktyping DVD+R to dvd-rom DOES work on MY Denon player~ :)
the pioneer dvr-109 is a very fine drive, i use this ALMOST daily for my backups...i use my Sony, which is a rebadged Liteon btw, on a regular basis too~ :) there are ALWAYS going to be "tricks of the trade" around the former "assumptions" that a particular drive CAN or CAN NOT be able to booktype, i have done it on MY pioneer with no issues; however, some of the other manufacturers of drives/burners need MORE "tinkering" with to make it booktype capable~ :)
let me know which path you choose to take, i can guide you with your pioneer dvr-109 and booktyping if you would like, but just KNOW the risks involved before doing so...i am NOT held responsible if you accidently "fry" your drive and render it unusable :) hehe, i am here to help, not to provide an extra "warranty" on parts that my services are needed upon :) LOL just a word of caution before we get started if that is what you want to do...
docTY~
Recommended Media:
Taiyo Yuden 4x dvd-r TYGO1/ 8x dvd-r TYGO2/ 8x dvd+r YUDEN000T02/ 16x dvd+r YUDEN000T03
Verbatim 8x dvd+r MCC003
Verbatim dvd+r DL (MKM001)= flawless no compression backups
"Do Yourself A Favor, Use The Good Stuff
TY & Verbs 4 Life~ :)" ~docTY~
"Its better to be quiet and appear stupid, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
I am always prepared to recognize that there can be two points of view - mine and one that is probably wrong - John Gorton
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puds1970
Newbie
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29. October 2005 @ 03:16 |
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Thanks again kivory, Ive just ordered some Veratim DL (MKM001) or at least claim to be no only kidding Ive used them before and they were ok.
Anyway what im going to do with my 1st lot is just leave my pioneer 109 with the latest firmware revision on and give it a few burns using either DVD Decrypter + Nero or 1 click DVD copy.
As I reasonably new to this art I'll learn to crawl before walking dont get me wrong Ive burned a few in my time but im trying to find out if the old saying "if its not broke dont fix it" applies.
Cheers and I'll be back if this doesnt seem to be doing the buisness, or if you can see that I may hit a potential problem with what I have already wrote please feel free to give advice any of which is much apppreciated.
Thanks
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sugarray
Junior Member
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29. October 2005 @ 06:05 |
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Ive stuck with Shrink and Recode for compression.Never had much problems with them and you get way more value for money with sinlge layer discs.You could get 5/6 DVD5 discs for the cost of 1 DVD9.....But if your nitpickety about compression and stuff Dual Layer is probably the way to go....
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neodave
Member
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29. October 2005 @ 06:19 |
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I've decided to wait until I can get them for $1 or less per disk. It may be a while but with HD around the corner I can't imagine it being too long. With a good quality single layer running around .25 to .30 the quality is easily acceptable for me. Besides you just KNOW that the more recent 'good' movies will be re-released in HD in the very near future.
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aabbccdd
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29. October 2005 @ 10:52 |
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plus doing the "movie only" with the single layers you DONT usally lose any picture quality unless the movie is really a long one
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mrchub
Member
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29. October 2005 @ 11:23 |
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puds1970, as usual, kivory666 is correct. Personally I have no issues with worrying about booktyping since I made liberal use of the return policies of the major US electronics retailers before I settled on the players I use (in my case a Sony 5-disc carousel, the Philips DivX player, and an old Apex AD-1500--plays anything with a hole in it except for .AVI files). In other words I chose solely players that could handle almost anything that comes out of my burners, set to dvd-rom or not.
As for Shrink's ability (or Rebuilder's--what I use) to do a nice job, well, that's well documented everywhere. Still, if you have a decent TV do you really want to be compressing a long, detail-rich movie like Batman Begins at all? Sure, when a movie clicks in at 1 hr 45 min and is largely a dialogue-driven drama with only a 2-channel DD audio track, well, why waste the extra bucks when a little compression will yield results almost indistinguishable from the original?
But I gotta tell you, after having now watched my dual-layer backup of Batman Begins for the third time (sans warning/nag screens, of course...after all, you do own the original, so why not back it up without the garbage), there is no way I'd be happy having that movie on a single-layer disc on my TV. Sure, if you have a 19" TV then you'd be foolish to ever use a dual-layer disc, you won't see the softness or edge problems anyway.
Right now I'm still at the point where I only use a dual-layer disc about 10 - 20% of the time, but I'm sure that percentage will grow as the price of the discs drops.
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puds1970
Newbie
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29. October 2005 @ 22:54 |
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Cheers for all the input in reply to mrchub
I was thinking of doing the long detailed films with the DL discs as I have a 36" Sony and Denon DVD & amp with some decent Kef speakers I want to make the experience complete (until and if HDDVD comes out).
On a different issue Ive just found some discs with the media ID of LONGTEN 001 on it from the Longten CORP, now Ive had them a while and assume there not exactly top notch if you know what I mean.
Now Ive read the great guide to media ID but can anyone please enlighten me on how bad these discs are and please dont pull any punches I can take it, Ive got broad shoulders.
Thanks
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AfterDawn Addict
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29. October 2005 @ 23:15 |
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puds,
buddy, those are SOME OF THE WORST EVER~!! makes memosux CMC MAG appear GOOD~ :) no joke, and i'm NOT kidding~ :)
docTY~
LOL
it's not Halloween until Monday, so...this is NOT a pre-emptive "trick or treat"...those Longtens are definitely NOT a treat~ :)
Recommended Media:
Taiyo Yuden 4x dvd-r TYGO1/ 8x dvd-r TYGO2/ 8x dvd+r YUDEN000T02/ 16x dvd+r YUDEN000T03
Verbatim 8x dvd+r MCC003
Verbatim dvd+r DL (MKM001)= flawless no compression backups
"Do Yourself A Favor, Use The Good Stuff
TY & Verbs 4 Life~ :)" ~docTY~
"Its better to be quiet and appear stupid, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
I am always prepared to recognize that there can be two points of view - mine and one that is probably wrong - John Gorton
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aabbccdd
Suspended permanently
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29. October 2005 @ 23:24 |
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puds1970
Newbie
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29. October 2005 @ 23:48 |
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Cheers guys , dont pull any punches will you LOL, I thought they were pants no great loss there were only 4 in the bottom of the cupboard just enough for a set to put on the dining table for each place setting the Coffee cups will look just fine on em me thinks.
Thanks.
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AfterDawn Addict
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29. October 2005 @ 23:50 |
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me thinks so too~ :)
docTY~
Recommended Media:
Taiyo Yuden 4x dvd-r TYGO1/ 8x dvd-r TYGO2/ 8x dvd+r YUDEN000T02/ 16x dvd+r YUDEN000T03
Verbatim 8x dvd+r MCC003
Verbatim dvd+r DL (MKM001)= flawless no compression backups
"Do Yourself A Favor, Use The Good Stuff
TY & Verbs 4 Life~ :)" ~docTY~
"Its better to be quiet and appear stupid, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
I am always prepared to recognize that there can be two points of view - mine and one that is probably wrong - John Gorton
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aabbccdd
Suspended permanently
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30. October 2005 @ 01:08 |
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congrats on the "After Dawn Addict" there Doctor seems like you aways have been anyway way to go
BTW i got the envolope you sent me and yours will be sent out first thing monday ,Thanks so much
and glad you got the point there puds lol
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puds1970
Newbie
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30. October 2005 @ 06:01 |
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Ive decided to order some dual layer R+ verbatims (MKM001) from Bigpockets and 100 Taiyo Yudens (single layer) from SVP Im hoping you guys tell me that Ive made a reasonably wise choice.
Oh and a thousand Logten 001, only kidding LOL
Thanks
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30. October 2005 @ 06:02
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Moderator
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30. October 2005 @ 06:21 |
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@puds1970 - cool, another svp user, they sell some great stuff but like any company they sell some rubbish. but unlike most sites you know what you're getting up front, ie they st the Media Codes for every type of media they sell. And if there's a type of disc that has differing manufacturers, they'll tell you so, and will aso advise that they can't guarantee which of the different manufacturers you'll receive. It's all about being informed, and from me they get top marks in that dept.
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules *** |
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puds1970
Newbie
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30. October 2005 @ 07:01 |
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Hi Creaky, Good to hear positive feedback regarding a potential purchase (SVP) due to recommendations from Kivory (who will be hold solely responsible if they turn out to be duds) LOL only joking chap.
But you fully expect them to be the real Mcoy from that site Creaky?, and are you from the UK excuse my ignorance ive not read your profile yet also if you are where else do you get your blank media from.
Thanks
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Moderator
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30. October 2005 @ 07:06 |
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yup, i'm in UKtoo. svp are the only place i know of who sell genuine TY. how about these as an alternative to normal TY for single layer discs - i am burning up a storm with these, i've bought about 1000 so far since svp started using them but i just can't make them last LOL.
- http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/1/229523
i just got paid so methinks it's time for some more Verb TY (yum!)
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30. October 2005 @ 07:09
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RobertSB
Junior Member
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30. October 2005 @ 12:47 |
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I too figured I'd give the DL's a try. I used Memorex 2.4X DVD+R DL media. I know Memorex doesn't make many people's list ( TY user here) but they have worked flawlessly for me. Perhaps with no compression there is less demand on the media quality. I found them on the web for $2.00 each/25pack. My 5-year-old Panasonic DVD player hiccupped and wouldn?t display disc menu properly. New Sony DVD player worked fine. At easily 4X the price of DVD-R media it? still not cost efficient but I?ll still use it under certain circumstances.
Shuttle SB75G2, P4 3.0(OC'd to 3.5Ghz) 1 Gig 3200DDR, 80G Samsung, 250G Hitachi SATA Drive, 250G Hitachi IDE, Pioneer A08XL
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AfterDawn Addict
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30. October 2005 @ 15:42 |
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i have a feeling those memorex DLs you are using are actually manufactured by Ritek robertsb~ :) i actually use the Ritek Ridata DL media with much success~ so, that could be a reason for your success on the DLs you got there~ :)
if the Memorex you got are actually Ritek manufactured, the media ID will be identical to the one in my sig...run it through a dvd identifier program if you have time, i'm curious to see if you got Riteks or the DREADED/CRAPPY Philips made ones~ LOL :)
good luck puds, creaky will know what to get from SVP, as i'm here in the U.S., but the two things you were planning on buying, you got the thumbs up from me~ :) if they turn out to be "duds", blame creaky..as he's closer to you than i am~ LOL j/k~!
aabbccdd, glad to hear you received my package, thanks for the congrats :) thanks for letting me know~
docTY~
p.s. Robert, i too am a "TY USER" as well, in case you don't know as of yet~ welcome to AD~ LOL
Recommended Media:
Taiyo Yuden 4x dvd-r TYGO1/ 8x dvd-r TYGO2/ 8x dvd+r YUDEN000T02/ 16x dvd+r YUDEN000T03
Verbatim 8x dvd+r MCC003
Verbatim dvd+r DL (MKM001)= flawless no compression backups
"Do Yourself A Favor, Use The Good Stuff
TY & Verbs 4 Life~ :)" ~docTY~
"Its better to be quiet and appear stupid, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
I am always prepared to recognize that there can be two points of view - mine and one that is probably wrong - John Gorton
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30. October 2005 @ 15:43
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puds1970
Newbie
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31. October 2005 @ 01:59 |
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Now all I have to do is do the discs justice I suppose.
would you say running an anti virus or simialar products in the background will hinder the burning process?, Ive has 1 or 2 failures in the past but that maybe down to the crap discs though.
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