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AVI to DVD encoders: Preferences?
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Member
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2. January 2006 @ 15:25 |
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Hey folks,
New at this, but not completely new. I'm using TMPGEnc to convert from avi to mpeg and am curious at to your opinions on what encoders you use and why. I'd like to know which give the best quality as well as ease of use. Any input you have would be great. Cheers and Happy New Year!
* Inescapable *
  
Born to compute. Born to engineer!
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BuyHoney8
Newbie
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2. January 2006 @ 15:39 |
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I'd be interested in reading the responses to this discussion, as I am also very interested in finding out what other, better informed people are doing.
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Minion
AfterDawn Addict
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3. January 2006 @ 14:18 |
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For me there are only a small Handfull of Encoders that produce quality that is up to my standards and most of these are considered Professinal quality Encoders....
These are them:
Tmpgenc Pluss/Express
Lots of Features and Fairly easy to use and Good quality but encodeing is very slow..
MainConcept Encoder v1.5
Very Good Quality ,very fast and Fairly easy to use but Lacking in some Features like Filters....
Canopus Procoder v2.0
Extremely Good Quality ,Lots of Features and Fairly easy to use but the Encodeing is Very slow....
CinemaCraft Encoder SP v2.70
Awesome Mpeg-2 encodeing Quality and Super Fast and the Only encoder that can do up to 9 Pass VBR encodeing but Very Difficult and Complicated to use and the Lack of File Type Support means Frameserveing is essential to use it to it"s Full Potential, Only recomemded for those with a advanced knowlege of Encodeing and Frameserveing.....
I have Tried Literally Hundreds of different encoders and Most all of them do not compare to these ones, (Most actually Sucked)...
I use CinemaCraft Encoder SP v2.70 with AVISynth for frameserveing and for Filtering and resizeing ect and I get awesome results at very Low Bitrates useing a Custom Quantize Matrix I came up with that allows me to get Near DVD Quality Encodes with an average bitrate of only about 3000kbs so I can get over 3 Hours of Full D1(720x480) Video on a 4.38gb DVD-R and 5 hours of Half D1 (352x480) Video on a DVD-R.....
Cheers
P-4 2.6ghz (Overclocked to 3.2ghz)
Abit IS7
1gb Dual Chanell DDR 400mhz
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XFX Gforce 6600GT 128mb GDDR3 (500/1000)
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AfterDawn Addict
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3. January 2006 @ 20:38 |
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I have used TMPGEnc Plus, Canopus Procoder v2 as well as many others and have settled on MainConcept v1.5. The quality is excellent (I'm picky about that); a touch better than TMPGEnc (I think) and on par with Canopus but at least 2 - 3x as fast as those, although I didn't use Canopus long. Just too slow; as slow or slower than TMPGEnc. I have heard that CinemaCraft is very fast and gives excellent quality but that it is very complicated to use and you should use AviSynth to get best results with it. BTW, I didn't find MC that easy to set up but that may be just me. For a quick encode with good quality, VSO DivX to DVD (I think it's called) impressed me, but I also only used it a few times many months ago.
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Member
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4. January 2006 @ 08:27 |
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Minion,
Looking around I haven't found much on a good 'users guide' to CCE. Any chance you'd be willing to divulge details on how you put your dvd's together? If it's complicated...meh...I'll learn ;)
Ry
* Inescapable *
Born to compute. Born to engineer!
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Minion
AfterDawn Addict
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4. January 2006 @ 12:59 |
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Yes, the Method I use is Very Complicated, Too Complicated to Teach someone in a Reasonable ammount of time because it also entails you haveing to Understand Concepts and terminology that most poeple would have a hard Time Understanding also you have to know what the properties of your Files are and how you would go about properly encodeing the Files based on there Properties...
You also have to know how to resize resolutions while keeping the source aspect ratio and you have to know what file need to be encode with 3:2/2:3 pulldown and you have to know if your File is interlaced or Progressive and It"s Field order and you have to select the Correct scanning Pattern Based on the Type of Video and you have to Know if your source File uses a drop frame Time code or not, and these are things you have to know Just to Load your File into CCE there are still a Whole Bunch of other settings that have to be adjusted....
Then you also have to know how to use AVISynth which is very hard for most Poeple because there is No Interface or GUI to the Program and all of it"s Functions have to be Written in a Form of Code called "Script" and each Plugin or Filter has it"s own set of Commands which you have to learn to use the Plugins or filters....
I was actually Writeing a guide on How to Convert PAL to NTSC useing AVISynth and CCE but the PDF File ended up over 300mb and I wasn"t even half done so I scrapped the Idea because No one will want to download a Guide that is allmost a Gigabyte in Size and over 50 pages Long.....
Cheers
P-4 2.6ghz (Overclocked to 3.2ghz)
Abit IS7
1gb Dual Chanell DDR 400mhz
Zalman CNPS7000-CU Cooler(Modded with 50cfm Fan)
XFX Gforce 6600GT 128mb GDDR3 (500/1000)
Pinnacle DV500 ADVC Editing Card
RaidMax Scorpio ATX Case + 5 Led
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Member
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4. January 2006 @ 13:45 |
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Who says I'm not willing? I'm sure that I can handle whatever you throw at me and if I don't know, I'll learn. Not saying I know everything, but I do have a background in engineering so I am able to learn. How be you fire me over a text copy of that file you were putting together and I'll see what I can do.
I'm not necessarily looking for perfection in the way I encode things, but I am curious as to the methods involved if I want to get the very best from the files I have.
Cheers mate,
Ry
* Inescapable *
Born to compute. Born to engineer!
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BuyHoney8
Newbie
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4. January 2006 @ 18:07 |
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Inescap, you may also consider the value of Minion's time. Deconstructed, what he really said was he doesn't have the time, which really doesn't have much to do with anyone's ability to learn.
However, I too seem to consistantly find myself if situations similar to yours. (Such as now.) Having a natural ability to learn is necessary, but being persistant is more important. Take as much as is given from as many was will give it, plus a healthy amount of "hands on" trial and error experience and generally the learning will happen of it's own accord.
Minion, my simple goal at this point is to convert 2 XviD files to a single .VOB file with as high a quality of video & audio as possible.
Based on your commenst, I downloaded and installed the TMPGEnc software and ran the 2 XviD files through it. But discovered that Source Creator and Express output the XviD as .MPG only.
Now I have been after this for several weeks now, and I am constantly seeing that people are referring the .MPG output as "DVD", such as converting .AVI to DVD really means converting to .MPG instead of a directory named "VIDEO_TS" with files like ".VOB", etc...
This is very frustrating, this lack of clarity of language.
(Rant ends...)
Anyways, does TMPGEnc output a "straight", "normal", "usual", "playable on my Mom's DVD Player" in any way ?
If so, how can I do this ?
Thanks in advance,
BH
PS
Okay, I'm an idiot. I tried 2 of the 3 programs, didn't try the 3rd (DVD Author). Just tried it (after posting this) and discovered it specifically describes the "VIDEO_TS" folder that will have the files that will play on Mom's DVD player.
Leaving this here for the next person...
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. January 2006 @ 18:14
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BuyHoney8
Newbie
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4. January 2006 @ 19:22 |
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Bah !
TMPGEnc DOES have the ability to output .VOB files,
BUT
It will only use .MPG files for it's input.
:<
So it looks like you convert the DivX to .MPG, then convert that to VOB.
Seems to me that all this converting would cause a loss of quality.
??
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AfterDawn Addict
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4. January 2006 @ 20:12 |
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Once you have converted a file to mpg, that will be all the encoding necessary. To play on your standalone "Mom's DVD player", just author and burn the mpg. TMPGEnc can even join your mpg files for you, removing any overlap. In fact, it's all I ever use. Encoding twice will cause quality loss and is not necessary. There also won't be any VIDEO_TS or AUDIO_TS folders with mpg's in case you're looking for them.
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AfterDawn Addict
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4. January 2006 @ 20:18 |
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BuyHoney8
Newbie
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5. January 2006 @ 04:00 |
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Mistycat,
Are you saying that standalone DVD players will run .mpg files ? Or that TMPGEnc will convert them to .VOB for DVD players?
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AfterDawn Addict
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5. January 2006 @ 07:04 |
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Pretty much all I ever watch on my standalone are mpg that are authored and burnt to DVD.
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AfterDawn Addict
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5. January 2006 @ 07:38 |
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Firstly, you are all confused by terminology.
Secondly, "converting" an mpg to .VOB is not converting, it's authoring, and should only involve remuxing, not any encoding.
Tmpgenc (the free one) will only encode to VCD mpeg-1.
Tmpgenc Plus will encode to VCD, SVCD, and DVD mpeg-2.
Tmpgenc DVD Author will take the encoded mpeg, and author it to vobs in the VIDEO_TS folder.
Tmpgenc (plus) does NOT output a VIDEO_TS folder with vobs. TMPGEnc DVD Author does.
There are distinct steps and programs used to create a playable DVD.
If you're using tmpgenc's stuff, you first encode, then author, then burn, as they don't have any all-in-one tools like Nerovision or VSO.
Tmpgenc is slow, and can be confusing.
Mainconcept is easier for a beginner, and blazingly fast.
Canopus gives better quality (under some conditions, depending on source), but can be relatively slow.
CCE has an extremely crappy interface/GUI, but is fast. It also needs avisynth to get the best results.
There are other options, but for the best quality mpeg, these 4 will do the job, with the right settings.
How you choose to author it, can make, or ruin an otherwise perfect encode.
Black holes are where God divided by zero...
Cheers, Jim
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AfterDawn Addict
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5. January 2006 @ 08:10 |
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Thankyou rebootjim. Terminology has never been my strong point.
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BuyHoney8
Newbie
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5. January 2006 @ 16:34 |
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Thanks for the reply, the clarification of the language and the explanation as to which parts of TMPGEnc does and does not do.
Please see this thread:
Re: my question regarding the use of TMPGEnc.
Thanks again,
BH
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Minion
AfterDawn Addict
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5. January 2006 @ 16:47 |
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Most Programs that Convert Directly from AVI to a "Video_TS" folder are very Basic programs that generally do not have any Support for Menu"s or Chapters and don"t have encoders Built into them that produce the Type of Quality you can get from a Good Dedicated Standalone Mpeg encoder....
There are So many different Features in the DVD format that these porograms do not Utilize which makes your DVD Options very Limited which is another Good reason to Use a good standalone encoder and a DVD authoring program as Opposed to a Once Click AVI to DVD program....
Cheers
PS:"Inescapbl" I would explain My Method to you but "BuyHoney8" Is Right I do not have the Time, well at least Not right now but you can get Simular Results useing TMPGEnc or MainConcept and a DVD authoring program Like "MediaChance DVDLab Pro"....
P-4 2.6ghz (Overclocked to 3.2ghz)
Abit IS7
1gb Dual Chanell DDR 400mhz
Zalman CNPS7000-CU Cooler(Modded with 50cfm Fan)
XFX Gforce 6600GT 128mb GDDR3 (500/1000)
Pinnacle DV500 ADVC Editing Card
RaidMax Scorpio ATX Case + 5 Led
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AfterDawn Addict
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6. January 2006 @ 06:48 |
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@ BuyHoney8
Quote:
I downloaded and installed the TMPGEnc software and ran the 2 XviD files through it. But discovered that Source Creator and Express output the XviD as .MPG only.
That's exactly what it's supposed to do. Create a dvd compliant mpeg, containing video and audio. It creates a DVD Source file, thus it's name.
Quote:
I am constantly seeing that people are referring the .MPG output as "DVD", such as converting .AVI to DVD really means converting to .MPG instead of a directory named "VIDEO_TS" with files like ".VOB", etc...
These people are referring to all-in-one tools like VSO that don't produce the quality, nor have the options that standalone tools do. AVI to DVD is a multi-step process, and should be done with elementary streams, not a muxed mpg.
Quote:
Anyways, does TMPGEnc output a "straight", "normal", "usual", "playable on my Mom's DVD Player" in any way ?
No. The mpeg created is (should be) totally DVD compliant, but still needs to be authored.
If you want to do it the "right" way, have tmpgenc output elementary streams, that is, separate audio and video files...actually, one should only use tmpgenc to encode video, and not touch the audio. Other tools are designed to encode xvid audio to dvd compliant audio.
Authoring is the process of taking an mpg, splitting it into it's component parts of video and audio, adding menus, chapters, etc., then remuxing the audio and video into vobs of 1 gigabyte each, with their associated ifo and bup files in a VIDEO_TS folder on your hard drive.
Authoring ranges from simple autoplay, to commercial DVD-like menus and structure.
ReJig will author a simple autoplay DVD. If you want something a little more interactive, Tmpgenc DVD Author will do a fair job, as will Ulead DVD movie factory (and a whole bunch of other shoddy software). If you truly want a professional looking DVD, you'll need software such as DVDLab Pro or Sonic Scenearist.
HTH
[rant]What amazes me are the constant posts about the "fastest" way to get someting on DVD. If you want fast, go buy a standalone DVD recorder. Plug the output of your video card into it, and hit record.
Crap crap crap, but as fast as you'll ever get.
If you want any quality, and want some control over the quality, you must use the proper tools, with the right settings.
Take any PAL xvid with VBR MP3 audio, and try making a GOOD NTSC DVD from it. I dare you! Use any software you like. DVD Santa, VSO, tmpgenc, mainconcept, whatever.
Unless you know the procedure, and use the right tools, all you're going to get is crap.
Take the time to use the right tools, learn how to use them properly, and you'll be able to take (just about) any downloaded video, in any format, and make a decent DVD from it.
[/rant]
Black holes are where God divided by zero...
Cheers, Jim
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. January 2006 @ 06:54
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BuyHoney8
Newbie
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7. January 2006 @ 05:36 |
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Quote:
Take any PAL XviD with VBR MP3 audio, and try making a GOOD NTSC DVD from it. I dare you! Use any software you like. DVD Santa, VSO, TMPGEnc, mainconcept, whatever.
Unless you know the procedure, and use the right tools, all you're going to get is crap.
Take the time to use the right tools, learn how to use them properly, and you'll be able to take (just about) any downloaded video, in any format, and make a decent DVD from it.
Several questions. First, can it be assumed from the above that re-encoding data can recover data/resolution/quality that has been "lost" be previous encoding/compression ? I have noticed that encoding/converting from one format to another can cause dramatic changes in file size.
Also, how does one go about (paraphrased) "learning how to use the right tools properly", given that: 1. There are so many of them, 2. There are so many options/settings to learn for each of them and 3. There are so many different ways in which they can be used ?
Thanks in advance,,
BH
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AfterDawn Addict
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9. January 2006 @ 07:42 |
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Quote:
First, can it be assumed from the above that re-encoding data can recover data/resolution/quality that has been "lost" be previous encoding/compression ?
No. You cannot recover what's not there.
Quote:
I have noticed that encoding/converting from one format to another can cause dramatic changes in file size.
Different formats have different compression factors. This is normal, and a 500 meg avi has NOTHING to do with the filesize of the same avi once encoded to mpeg-2.
Quote:
Also, how does one go about (paraphrased) "learning how to use the right tools properly", given that: 1. There are so many of them, 2. There are so many options/settings to learn for each of them and 3. There are so many different ways in which they can be used ?
1) Find tools that YOU like, that do the job properly. Read the guides. Try the demo's.
2) Different tools have different options. Tmpgenc is popular, but slow, and has a multitude of settings, but it's quality can be exceptional. Mainconcept is easier to use (for a beginner), but also has more settings than tmpgenc if you want to use them.
3) Not really. Specific tools do a specific job.
Find and use a good encoder. It's sole purpose is to make mpeg-2's. Learn how to use it to get the best output possible. Learn how to work with elementary streams.
Tmpgenc
Mainconcept
Canopus Procoder (express)
CCE (basic)
Find and use a good editor. It's purpose is to cut, edit, add effects, brighten, darken, contrast, and all other video manipulation.
Too many to list.
Find and use a good authoring app. It's purpose is to make the mpeg-2 into a DVD. That's all it should do, not encode, not cut, not edit, not insert fades, not "render".
DVDLab (Pro)
Tmpgenc DVD Author
About 500 more that don't do half of what these two can do.
Find and use a good burning program. It's sole purpose is to burn the fully edited and authored dvd to a disk. That's all it does.
Find and use other "necessary" toosl that help with all the above.
PVAStrumento for demuxing.
GSpot for file information.
Virtualdubmod and Avisynth for frameserving.
DGPulldown for framerate conversion.
Ffmpeggui for .wav to .mp2/.ac3 audio encoding.
Black holes are where God divided by zero...
Cheers, Jim
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9. January 2006 @ 07:47
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