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9-11 Conspiracy
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aabbccdd
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9. July 2006 @ 09:47 |
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flip218 , i saw something about this on fox news channel a while back ,the Conspiracy theroy is from a bunch of left wing nuts and has no value to it at all ,btw is was trying to bre funny in the first post lol in this thread
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9. July 2006 @ 10:39
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ricer007
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22. July 2006 @ 10:15 |
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I just kind of surfed the internet for 9/11 conspiracy theory and landed on this site. I couldn't get on the link but I assume it is eerily familar (if not the same) as a video called Loose Change: 2nd Edition. It would be in everyone's interest to watch it. It is a documentary by "us" left-wing nuts. The funny thing about a scenario like this if the government did do this, us nuts are actually true.
The reason I am posting is not that I have any expert knowledge of 9/11 or why or who did it but think of these facts.
If a plane did crash into the Pentagon (a boeing 757) wouldn't there be more debris. Someone brought up the Florida Everglade crash. That plane sunk into murky water. It's hard to see shit that's in the bottom of a swamp. Secondly, if the jet fuel was hot enough to melt beams in the WTC then why was the fuecilage (sp?) completely unburned or even cover in soot? Also, there is a gas station within spitting distance of the Pentagon but FBI and NSA placed gag orders on all employees working in the station plus confiscated all surveillance video of the crash into the Pentagon. Why would the US government not release such video to dissuade us conspiracy theorists? (Oh btw, they did release 2 seconds of video showing a massive fireball but no plane).
As for the WTC attacks, yes terrorist probably hit the buildings. The government with all its wisdom probably knew and did nothing. Did it casue the collapse? I don't know. From the video and LIVE news coverage on 9/11 many news reporters described the collapse like a "coordinated demolision". Also, you know who was security director for the WTC? A cousin of Pres. Bush. Why would he take all security off of the WTC the week of the attacks when they were running strict exercises up to 2 weeks prior to the planes crashing. Also, no bomb dogs were present in the week up to 9/11 at the WTC though they were prior to the week before. That would give undercover demolision crews plenty of time to wire the building to drop. Plus if the building was bending and buckling, wouldn't one surmise that the building would have toppled over and landed on adjacent buildings? Also, the owner of the WTC took out a 3.3 billion dollar insurance policy specifically in case of a terrorist attack via planes into the WTC. Or how about the FEMA booklet for preparation of terrorist attacks that show crosshairs on the WTC?
I am not here to push my views on people but I also distrust the government. They have become Big Brother. Illegal wiretaps on everyday citizens, vetoes to bills to increase the minimum wage to the middle class. Why does everyone assume government is for the people. Google Bayer and see what the FDA and US government allowed Bayer to do with HIV infected hemophiliac drugs (dispose of them? no they allowed the company to unload it on foreign countries - France, Spain and Japan). Yet there has been no investgation of wrongdoing by the government or FDA into Bayer.
If everyone believes what is told to them then why try to think outside the box. Government has become one that uses fear to hold power. How many people belive the war in Iraq is to get the terrorists taht attacked us on 9/11 or to build a democractic Irawq?
All I ask is that people take a look at alternatives before bashing people that do look at discrepancies in the storeis told to us by corporate media or the government.
Someone also said we all saw it and read it, so it must be true. Excuse me but if I can take an elephant and make it disappear does that make me the next Messiah? I don't think so. It's called look at this evidence and believe it. It is highly plausible that the government had a hand in these "attacks" since most people that died wree everyday hardworking Americans and the middle class is the one that government needs to keep them in office. Plus if you keep them in fear, many people will say "please protect us" which is what the government wants. No checks and balances, just the ability to do what they want at our expense.
Last and no least. Do we really feel safer after 9/11 and what our foreign policy is doing for us. Most people around the world think we are arrogant. Look at North Korea and Iran. What a fun time we live in
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ddp
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22. July 2006 @ 15:47 |
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ricer007, the depth of the swamp was about chest level. the jet fuel did not melt the steel i-beams but helped fuel the fires that caused the beams to sag & pop off from the wall brackets.
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ricer007
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22. July 2006 @ 16:25 |
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Ok I'm sorry about the Florida Everglades but found this interesting....
http://www.cnn.com/US/9605/17/valujet.search/index.html
Says divers were called in to "feel" for wreckage. I still stand that though the plane left a "crater" in the Everglades, 1. it was still recovered and 2. it sunk to a point where divers had to feel since it sank into the slug that makes up the bottom of the everglades.
As for the fires causing major structural problems....
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/compare/fires.html
Though people will say but a plane hit the buildings which in turn led to fires which in turn caused there collapse. I would have to disagree. The buildings were building to Class A specifications which means that they were built to withstand high intensity fires and also planes crashing into them.
http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-6.pdf
An actual look into the WTC and planes and fires. Though I admit that I didn't completely read the article (400+ pages) some things were of merit.
Also, if the planes hit the buildings, caused the fires taht brought down the buildings then why was WTC2 the first to go?. The first was hit with a more solid impact and burned for 30 minutes or some foolishness while the second fell with minutes of being hit.
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ricer007
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22. July 2006 @ 16:33 |
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Sorry, upon further review the WTC1 stood for 102 minutes after impact while the second stood for 56 minutes after impact. Sorry about the false information.
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aabbccdd
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22. July 2006 @ 16:59 |
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we were hit by terriost plain and simple there was NO conspiracy and noones trying to hide anything!!!!
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ddp
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22. July 2006 @ 17:01 |
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aabbccdd, reduce your sig to 50k or get banned, your choice!
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gerry1
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22. July 2006 @ 17:37 |
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While I don't believe the conspiracy theories, I'm sometimes facinated reading them. The plots and twists and turns some people can engineer are unbelievable as are the ways they tie them together. If I had that sort of imagination, I'd be the best damned spy/mystery novelist around rather than waste my time on that junk.
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ricer007
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22. July 2006 @ 20:39 |
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All I'm saying is that you look at the facts and any video of a particular event (JFK assassination, 9/11) and get alternative view points. Take what you want and leave what you want.
Until one can look at both sides of an issue can one understand where the other is coming from.
It can be far fetched to believe but in my beliefs, I distrust out government. I feel that it is not outside the scope of their powers to either sit back and let it happen, to fabricate it themselves, or to be completely ignorant that something would happen.
Our government is no longer for the people. It's for large corporations that give money to senators and representatives. The middle class is getting <expletively deleted> by the government (House and Senate voted against a minimum wage increase yet vote to increase their salaries).
In the end, I guess all I'm trying to say is you believe what you want believe
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. July 2006 @ 03:17 |
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ricer007, you have made some salient & pertinent points. I am with you on this one. The videos I have seen have raised serious unanswered points.
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gerry1
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23. July 2006 @ 11:40 |
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Oh, I'm not belittling your opinion ricer007, my apologies if it seems that way. Its just that there is verys strong evidence against those who did commit the act and it's been tried before. Frankly, I'm surprised that it didn't happen decades ago.
As for the JFK assination, I don't think there are many people who DO believe the warren commission and the ol' magic bullet theory. There is more to that than meets the eye and I think most people agree. I wonder if the truth will ever come out.
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ricer007
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23. July 2006 @ 13:11 |
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thanks gerry. I'm just saying that 1. the peole the witnesses 9/11 will never know the truth. plus though Osama said he orchestrated 9/11 the video that shows him saying he did it is grainy and also he is wearing a wedding ring on his right hand while writing right handed. Osama is left handed and I don't know for sure but I think he isn't married.
I'm just trying to say that I don't like when people who have a different opinion than what the government tells us as "anti-American" or left-wing nuts. I just have a strong distaste for the government knowing that they care nothing for average joe public. In the government's eyes were expendable. If a tobacco exec is willing to kill people with his product (cigarettes & chew) than I don't put it past our government to allow or even kill buildings full of people.
Just say that the government had a hand in 9/11. What did they get out of it... the President was given more or less martial law (used it to start up Homeland Security which doesn't really do anything, supposedly gave him the authority to wiretap Americans, gave him the go-ahead to attakc Afghanistan [we put a lovely pipeline through the country after we ousted the Taliban and Al-Quada], gave him the ability to go to war with Iraq, and going to war allow cheney to profit with Halliburton's no-bid contracts). Though looking at 9/11 seems to point at Al-Quada since Osama admitted it, we also have the technology to fake it. Supposedly Los Alamos national Labrabtroy can synthesize an exact voice given only 20 secs of sound.
Things don't all fit in a cookie-cutter box. Plus we never recovered the voice recordered (black-boxes) from the WTCs. Yet one of the terroritsts passports we easily found int he rubble. I'm sure that a box that is made of titanium and tungsten or whatever material would outlast a paper passport.
I just look at the event in horror from what happened. Innocent Americans lost their lives and at whose hands? Al-Quada or the US government. If it was Al-Quada than yes they should all die but if it was the US government than same on us as Americans for allowing them to do it to us and to not have a united voice against them.
Nowadays government is too big. I just don't think that all the facts are present.
My own personal theory is this....
Terrorists planned on attacking America. The govenrment had knowledge of it but knew that allowing it to happen would give them the authority and power to do wht they wanted. They sat back and watched it unfold (remember when Bush was sitting in kindergarten reading the goat book - either he's really dumb and didn't know what to do or didn't care what was happening). The public was frightened about how they could allow this to happen. Reps and Senators not knowing what dto do authorized martial law to the White House. Now they had more power and started setting up shit like the Patriot Act. They used their power to tell the public that "look Al-Quada attacked us and we have knowledge that Saddam has weapons of mass destruction". Naysayers were discredits (Plame) and we went to war. We sent 100 billion dollars into Iraw that mysteriously disappeared. This could be far-fetched but I don't believe that 19 mid eastern guys could orchestrate such an attack scot-free. Hell the FBI picked up 7 peolpe in Florida that were going to attack the Sears Building in Chicago. They picked up men ready to bomb train statiosn in NY. People will say it's because of shit in place after 9/11. We used to be as a nation the most advanced, highly evolved (in terms of intelligence) to find credible threats and neutralize them. We beat the Nazis in WWII and held off the Russians during the Cold war. How could we defeat two of the alrgest threats in the world yet we get to 2001 and have no knowledge of threats on US soil.
Sorry abvout the rant, I just wanted to put my thoughts down on why I don't just blindly accept what the government tells me. I'd rather view all information possible and come up with my own conclusions than have Big Brother say that well it was because of this and that. Also say that the WTCs were taken down by planes, why did WTC7 collapse when nothing hit it? Why did the owner of the WTC take out such a large policy prior to 9/11? Why was all the debris removed from Ground Zero by FEMA (a federal agency) before experts could actually inspect it and come up with a logical explanation? Also please don't say that it was because of aspestos that it was a health problem. Hell we didn't even start seeing it's affects until years afterwards. Or tell me taht we cleared the debris to get ready for the memorial (it's 5 years later and we are stil figuring out what we;ll put there). Also supposedly the WTC held over 100 billion dollars of foreign gold yet when we were clearing away the debris the total was more int he millions than billions. And last but not least, why didthe janitor that was working in the WTC subbasement hear mulitple explosions prior to the building collapse?
Stuff just doesn't add up to just teorrists in a plane hit the building and the fire caused it to collapse. But as I said I'm a left-wing conspiracy theory nut who is writing a nice mystery novel (just kidding gerry - thought that line was pretty funny :P)
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aabbccdd
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23. July 2006 @ 14:19 |
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,remember one thing everything posted is opinion and not fact based .anyone can dream up a Conspiracy and looks like some people have bought into it for whatever reason ,the videos speak for themselfs. noones anwsered why,what,how etc.they think this was faked. i see it as just a way for everyone to bash the current people in charge.which is a copout.
1. blaming the tobacco exec for killing people is like saying guns get up by there selfs and kill people. its there choice to smoke everyone knows the effects its not the tobacco exec fault .bottom line people shouldnt smoke . dont blame others for your bad choices in life
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. July 2006 @ 14:21
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. July 2006 @ 14:35 |
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Hmm, this could end up the way, many of these discussions have gone. There are far too many anomalies for it too be made up by "left wing nutters". Much of what rice007 says is not just his opinion. It is the opinion of many good American citizens.
I repeat, there are far to many unanswered questions for it to be brushed under the table. To question "why would anyone fake this?" is a rather naive way of viewing the situation, rather a "cop out" way of explaining your way out of the situation, answering a question with another (like a politician does), whilst cunningly avoiding the original question.
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23. July 2006 @ 14:39 |
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only Conspiracy i have today to think about is the 723 dinner Conspiracy who gets the last piece of Kentucky fried chicken in the tub...
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. July 2006 @ 15:10 |
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Hmmm, Kentucky fried chicken....
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ricer007
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23. July 2006 @ 15:10 |
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you're right abcd. Let me give more examples. Bayer Aspirin makes a HIV infect hemophiliac drug and sells it overseas to not take a loss. No government investigation into wrongdoing. Vioxxx is FDA approved only to be found to cause heart anomalies in its users (due to the fact that Merck fudged their results - no investigations into wrongdoing). Ritalin and Adderol are shown to cause heart attacks in children, yet it's the most widely prescribed drug for ADHD. Uranium rounds that we have been using in Iraq have been shown to cause microscopic radioactive dust that is causing problems in returning veterans. No one is looking into any medical problems. Ground Zero has shown asbestos problems yet no one is getting medical help or money for the problems it is creating. The point is this... people put into a position of trust exploit it. Sure tobacco is bad for you. I smoke cigarettes and shouldn't. But that is adrop in the hat. Sure it is a bad example but plz try to explain away the Bayer one. I'm sure u can't. So the execs of Bayer knew that they had a tainted product and were given the go ahead by the FDA to unload it overseas on our allies (Japan). No investigation. Still think it's a cop out that people in power that lust for money wouldn't kill you or me to get more of it? I think not.
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gerry1
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23. July 2006 @ 17:44 |
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I wasn't aware of the Bayer matter you spoke of but I'll sure agree that human life means squat when pitted against the bottom line ... money. I was one of the many in Florida who was a victim of the Humana HMO scandals in the early 1990s; unlike so many, I was lucky in that my life wasn't endangered by their greed.
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ricer007
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23. July 2006 @ 19:11 |
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radar01
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4. August 2006 @ 09:20 |
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Ireland, you seem to be the only one here with a head on his/her?? shoulders. I also lost friends on 9/11 and happened to be looking up at the Twin Towers when the 2nd plane hit. If you want to see an excellent and unbiased discussion of this "alledged" conspiracy get a copy of Penn & Tellers television show (called B$$$-S***). They had one episode devoted to Conspiracy Theories. Google 'penn & teller conspiacy theories'.
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gerry1
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4. August 2006 @ 10:21 |
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I love a good conspiracy theory; I've seen a couple (not about 9/11) I even agree with to one degree or another, e.g., I've never been much of a supporter of the warren commission's magic bullet theory.
My favorite conspiracy delt with bush 1&2, dick c , clinton and a number or others all being in on it as members of the "illuminati". I just checked my favorite conspiracy site that had pages and pages about it and all sorts of video but something seems wrong with it; maybe they're working on it; check it our maybe in a day or two http://www.toodumbtobepresident.com
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. August 2006 @ 10:23
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LexZ
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4. August 2006 @ 10:26 |
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this is a VERY bad conspiracy alright so a missle hit the pentagon where did the plane go where did the ppl go? it makes no sense bombs were planted in the pentagon nobody saw ppl bringing in massive truck loads of dynomite? it makes no sense
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Auslander
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4. August 2006 @ 16:25 |
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where do things vanish to all the time? it's extremely easy to make people and equipment disappear without a trace, especially when you have trillions of dollars and millions of people working for you. dynomite wouldn't have been needed. there are many more efficient, effective explosives out there; a few hundred ground-off rivets and well-placed plastic explosives, and the building comes down.
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LexZ
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5. August 2006 @ 05:12 |
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@ auslander so youre telling me that people were planting hundreds of plastic explosives all around the world trade center and out of everyone that works in the world trade center nobody realized the guy in the corner planting explosives? or nobody saw any explosives?
my creation!
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Auslander
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5. August 2006 @ 09:16 |
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i'm not necessarily saying explosives were planted at all, but i am saying that no one ever suspects the repairman (or really notices him) and i wouldn't put it past any authority anywhere. it would have been easy enough to do; nothing would have been out in the open--we're talking behind walls, in elevator shafts, possibly ductwork, and only in areas of structural importance. no one would have found a brick of C4 on their desk.
absolute power corrupts absolutely.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. August 2006 @ 09:18
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