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DON'T USE CHEAP BLANKS!
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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30. August 2006 @ 15:31 |
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CMC still makes most of the Verbatim MCC-coded discs. MBI makes many of the other ones. Checking factory production rates (see Understanding & Solutions or MMIS data if you can find it) will confirm the numbers. Mitsubishi simply does not have the factory capacity to produce the number of discs they sell. They make very few of their own discs although they supply dye and stampers to factories contracted to produce for them.
The digitalfaq information is erroneous, out of date, and full of misinformation. It is of some value in terms of the chronology of firmware releases in general, but it lacking in any understanding of optical technology or test methodology.
The test method for projection of environmental life does not match the new specifications for testing. It is unlikely that any DVD recordable disc can reach 100 years of expected life despite anyone's claims. It's the humidity that is the killer. (The data support the older 2.4X and 4X discs; faster speed discs are tending to deteriorate at faster rates than the slower speed discs. These tests take 9 to 10 months to complete properly.)
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Senior Member
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30. August 2006 @ 20:38 |
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Flame war?
But seriously folks, use what works best for you.
Read the forums and find out who is burning what with what.
Personally I hate CMC-MAGs, but if they work for you, then use them.
My advice, listen to what others use and have success with
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/296925
Read this, long but well worth it.
Cheap Media?
I've had great luck with the latest 16X from Ritek AKA Office Depot 16X +R disks, on sale from time to time for $19.99.
Sony Disks, both MIJ and MIT, Verbs and Taiyo Yuden are great when they are on sale.
Peace.
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aabbccdd
Suspended permanently
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30. August 2006 @ 21:43 |
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it FACT NOT opinion that CMC mag products (memorex) is low grade media !!!
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AfterDawn Addict
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31. August 2006 @ 02:28 |
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Sorry for 3x post,
(internet error)...lol
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 31. August 2006 @ 02:29
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AfterDawn Addict
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31. August 2006 @ 02:28 |
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sorry
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 31. August 2006 @ 02:29
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AfterDawn Addict
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31. August 2006 @ 02:28 |
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@ JoeRyan,
You sir are some piece of work,
Please stop spreading false information,
Or AT LEAST post CURRENT links to support your 'opinons'.
Quote:
Verbatim became infamous by switching from high-quality MCC to ultra-cheap CMC (CMC Magnetics) media, although they have since returned to using MCC. Companies like Memorex, Fuji and Imation all outsource to media vendors.
From: http://www.supermediastore.com/what-dvd-media-buy.html
http://www.ourmedia.org/node/148608
Submitted by digitaldispatch... on January 25, 2006 - 1:14am
Lets put these 'rumors' to rest so people know the truth.
Verbatim NO LONGER uses CMC magnetics.
Memorex is 4th class material (Garbage at best).
It seems EVERY dvd media guide I read says the same,
If need be I can post more links as well.
Possunt Quia Posse Videntur. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 31. August 2006 @ 02:37
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Senior Member
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31. August 2006 @ 03:27 |
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I really gave up trying to warn people about CMC-Mag cancer, anyone remember the Yugo car? I rest my case, they will buy it and think it is good stuff regardless of what we tell them, one week later they will be posting in other forums that they have burning problems, their movies live in Lego Land, and they are unplayable.
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Moderator
1 product review
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31. August 2006 @ 03:33 |
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Moderator
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31. August 2006 @ 03:47 |
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i also rarely say much about troublesome media nowadays, we're supposed to believe media such as this doesn't work for the majority of people due to our firmware not being properly equipped for CMC media (for instance; a very strange claim especially as CMC are supposed to be the biggest producer of discs). So i'll just go and reach over for my 'Verbatim TY' or my MCC003 discs, or even my old 8x -R Taiwanese MCC02RG20 discs.
P.S. i last night had an old Optodisc disc (i know i know, they were bought me as a gift) develop skipping symptoms at beginning of movie; Kids wanted to watch a movie last night that they've watched before off this backup and it's gone to crap (can see a smudge in the dye underneath at the beginning of disc but don't know or care about how the dye works, i know what i think when i see a splodge of discolouration). Am now backing up from original to ... an MCC02RG20 disc :)
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 31. August 2006 @ 04:01
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Member
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31. August 2006 @ 04:23 |
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I don't care what Joe says. STAY AWAY from anything manufactured by CMC. Period. Once I get burned, I don't touch it again to see if it is still hot.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 31. August 2006 @ 04:25
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Emzaid
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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31. August 2006 @ 04:56 |
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yea true verbatims are good media but recently i got some memorex that werent cmc junk they were Ricojpn and under manufacturer name it said Ricoh Co. Ltd. did memorex change from junk to okay media??
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31. August 2006 @ 05:01 |
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Memorex and similar companies use a widely varying range in disc manufacturers, you wouldn't know whose discs you'd end up with just by looking at a tub of Memorex; see my sig..
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
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daman1
Senior Member
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31. August 2006 @ 05:02 |
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^^ i agree,,thats why it's not worth buying memosux,you just
don't know!!!
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Member
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31. August 2006 @ 05:11 |
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They (Memorex) must be sucking in a lot of people, I see their media in all the stores. We here at afterdawn, who have been here awhile, know what to buy and what not to buy. We are only a small percentage of the world population so Memorex probably will survive. Wish we could get the word to everyone, then maybe all media would be manufactured to an excellant qaulity. CMC wouldn't want any AD'ers in their Qaulity Control department.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 31. August 2006 @ 10:39
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daman1
Senior Member
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31. August 2006 @ 05:27 |
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@little155,
LMAO!!!....good post,,true!!!
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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31. August 2006 @ 06:54 |
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Fact: CMC's Lin-Kuo Factory II and III make Verbatim discs in Taiwan.
Fact: CMC uses Mitsubishi stampers "MCC" and Mitsubishi dye.
Conclusion: 1) either everything CMC makes is not garbage, or 2) Verbatim is garbage. I think only #1 can be supported. (That would indicate that it truly is an opinion, not a logical conclusion, that CMC products are low-grade media.
Fact: Mitsubishi has no disc factory in Taiwan.
Fact: RicohJPN is made in Taiwan by Ritek.
I see from the postings that no one bothered to look up Understanding & Solutions' analysis of factory output and market share. Someone did look up a store's claim. Very impressive. I don't suppose anyone looked up exports of granular dyes. (You do know that the dyes are granular, of course. This export information is difficult to find, but it is fact.)
I leave false claims and rumors to the stores and digitalfaq. The information I work with comes from the suppliers of manufacturing equipment, test equipment, industry analysts, and government agencies.
"CMC would want any AD'ers in their Qaulity Control department." Ironic.
Afterdawn people are passionate about their hobby. Passion can be misleading unless tempered by some logic and factual information. The loudness of the shouting is no indication of the accuracy of the shouts. It is fine and accurate to say that Taiyo Yuden and Verbatim are excellent media and to recommend them to users because of the quality and the compatibility of the discs. It's also nice to support one's religion. But to condemn all others to hell is neither nice nor theologically sound. I don't want to change anyone's mind about TY or Verbatim, but the non-technical and incorrect attacks on other brands is troubling. Shouting about TY's and Verbatim's quality is a good thing. Shouting down other brands and the people who have had good experiences with them is not.
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daman1
Senior Member
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31. August 2006 @ 07:00 |
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All i know Ryan is memosux sux!!!,you know the proof i have,mine
and thats all i need OR care about!!!
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Moderator
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31. August 2006 @ 07:07 |
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Joe - i've said it over and over and over again; the majority of members here are not the same as the same as at (for instance) cdfreaks site; they over there revel in trying out all manner of discs and quality scanning like it's going out of fashion; plus analysing hub codes to verify what company/factory made certain discs etc. All very good stuff and certainly if i myself want to backtrack a hubcode to see who really made the discs i go mooching on cdfreaks. However we (in the main) over here are just out to get people burning, and burning consistently. I don't think anyone here claims to be a fraction as expert as (for instance) cdfreaks when it comes to the ins and out of discs. We just point people in the direction of consistent discs (that we prefer to use ourselves, after using lesser stuff ourselves also). We're not here to care or wory about the profits/reputation of whatever company/brand - we're not actually advertising for or against the companies - we couldn't care less about the companies themselves, we just want to use the companies products
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 31. August 2006 @ 07:09
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Senior Member
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31. August 2006 @ 07:50 |
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[bad southern baptist accent] Amen brother Creaky, you have shown us the light, Begone the demon of bad burning, Begone the demon of pixelation. I command you CMC demon back to the bowels of hell from where you came. Never darken our burner trays with possesed spawn of Satan disks.[bad southern baptist accent]
'nuff said.
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aabbccdd
Suspended permanently
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31. August 2006 @ 10:15 |
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wheres Kivory666 when you need him lol. he would set our buddy joe straight lol. hopefully creaky got though to him
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Senior Member
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31. August 2006 @ 10:24 |
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Nope, Joe and I go a long way back, Doc has spoken to him as well, To each his/her own.
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Member
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31. August 2006 @ 10:48 |
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Joe, post me some of thosed links with the facts you talk about. I not so narrow minded that I won't look at your facts. If you can show me where I've errored, I'll stand corrected. Back up your facts with the links to them.
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Member
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1. September 2006 @ 14:58 |
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Quote:
DON'T USE CHEAP BLANKS!
We know.
When evolution selects its agents, it does so at a cost, makes demands in exchange for singularity, and you may be asked to do something against your very nature. This force, evolution, is not sentimental. Like the Earth itself, it knows only the hard facts of life's struggle with death. All you can do is hope and trust that when you have served its needs faithfully, there may still remain some glimmer of the life you once knew.
Dell GX240 P4 1.8ghz, 768mb PC133
Western Digital 250gb 7200rpm
Western Digital 250gb 7200rpm
Visiontek 9600xt 256mb
BenQ DW1640 (BSOB), LITEON LTD163 (GH5S-D)
Sony 8x DVD+R (YUDEN000T02)
Verbatim 8x DVD+R (MCC 003}
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. September 2006 @ 14:58
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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1. September 2006 @ 19:31 |
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For all those who want to burn consistently on almost every drive, Verbatim and Taiyo Yuden are the best choice. For those who want to condemn CMC or any other manufacturer/brand on the basis of logic or "facts," you must get the premises correct or your conclusions will be wrong.
For anyone interested in data, here is some production information:
DVD production in 2005 (all types)
CMC 408 million
Ritek 378 million
Taiyo Yuden 320
MBI 200
Optodisc 200
Prodisc 192
Princo 180
Daxon Tech 156
Hitachi Maxell 130
TDK 79
Anyan Feiying 55
Gigastorage 50
Production figures in 2006 will be in the same order and higher except that Jiling Qingda in China is expected to be #10 with 85 million.
Production by country: (9,146 million units total in 2005)
54% in Taiwan (22 factories)
10% in Japan (7 factories)
32% rest of Asia (30 in China; more than 17 in Hong Kong; 3 in Thailand; 6 in India; 3 in Korea; 4 in Singapore; 3 in Malaysia; 1 in Macau)
3% in Western Europe (5 active factories; 13 closed and not producing)
1% in rest of world (more than 6 in S. America; 2 in Middle East; 3 in Eastern Europe; 1 in USA) Not one of these factories is listed under Mitsubishi Kagaku Media, Verbatim, or Mitsubishi subsidiaries.
Source: http://www.uands.com/ This report may or may not be available to non-subscribers. For those who do want marketing information for the entire storage industry, there are two sources in addition to Understanding & Solutions--Santa Clara Consulting and Magnetic Media Information Services. The website for Santa Clara Consulting is being rebuilt, but DVD Tracker is their report detailing market shares and projections for optical discs and drives/recorders.
http://www.mmislueck.com/ is the link for MMIS, a knowledgeable source of information on magnetic as well as optical storage with lots of market data and production information.
For information about test equipment, testing standards, and how to determine QUALITY, check out:
http://www.audiodev.com/ Audio Development produces the test equipment used by virtually every manufacturer capable of making a good disc or a drive. It is the world standard. (Although NIST's Fred Byers has told me that even their equipment does vary a bit, and work in the OSTA group is beginning to determine how much variation is considered serious. The head of the Santa Clara Group is the president of OSTA.)
http://www.mscience.com/ A great site explaining quality parameters. Jerry Hartke's contention is that there are two major causes of disc problems often ignored--file corruption and recording at too great a speed (pit morphology problems.)
For information concerning optical discs:
http://www.memorex.com/downloads/whitepa...Media_Jun06.pdf This is downloadable pdf file. Forget that it's from Memorex--this file is must reading for anyone who wants to know about optical media instead of rumors. The best written, most accurate, most comprehensive information from MiniDiscs to Blu-ray (and no commercials).
http://www.osta.org/technology/dvdqa/ An excellent primer on optical discs. This is shorter and less comprehensive than the Memorex reference file, but it is worth reading for anyone interested in learning accurate information.
http://eta-optik.com/fix/index-company.htm Some heavy reading from one of the major producers of manufacturing equipment. This may be too deep for non-engineers; but if you read through the Memorex reference file first, these papers will make sense.
To summarize my point all along: just because a disc does not work on a drive does not mean either one of them is defective. Other factors may be and usually are involved. If CMC makes Verbatim discs (it does) and if Verbatim discs are good (they are), CMC can make good discs. If CMC's discs do not work on a person's drive, one cannot claim there is anything defective about the disc until one identifies the cause of the problem from one of the following:
-compatibility issues with the drive
-file issues
-differences in dyes (not all CMC lines use MKK or azo-cyanine dye, but the Imation, TDK, Memorex discs do, and I believe that also applies to Philips and HP. Fuji discs use Fuji's Oxonol dye.)
-differences in groove geometry in the stampers
-differences in the vacuum chamber targets
-differences in the processes (from manufacturing equipment, mold and curing times, personnel(manufacturing and packaging), clean room conditions, and materials such as lacquers
Since there are people who experience few to no problems with CMC or CMC-derived discs, there is some evidence that the cause of the problems may lie in conditions other than the discs unless one can define what is out of specification or physically flawed on the disc. (The links to Audio Development, Media Sciences, and Steag Optik are good sources of information on what to look for even if you don't have test equipment. Their papers describe the symptoms.) If you have problems with CMC, Ritek, TDK, or other brands/manufacturers, switch to Verbatim and/or TY. Those who love TY and Verbatim ought to keep on recommending them to others--they will work for just about everyone (once TY works out some kinks in the new 16X DVD+R). But please don't accuse any disc of poor quality unless you can define what is wrong and eliminate compatibility as the cause. (I personally don't care about any particular company's product, but I do dislike the way certain brands are intentionally made to look bad by some drive manufacturers who play politics at consumers' expense.) People can read and learn in order to draw better, more knowledgeable conclusions; or they can howl with the horde. I hope these links will help the passionate AfterDawn readers move away from name calling.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. September 2006 @ 21:02
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Member
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1. September 2006 @ 19:44 |
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That's excellent information, JoeRyan. Many thanks.
When evolution selects its agents, it does so at a cost, makes demands in exchange for singularity, and you may be asked to do something against your very nature. This force, evolution, is not sentimental. Like the Earth itself, it knows only the hard facts of life's struggle with death. All you can do is hope and trust that when you have served its needs faithfully, there may still remain some glimmer of the life you once knew.
Dell GX240 P4 1.8ghz, 768mb PC133
Western Digital 250gb 7200rpm
Western Digital 250gb 7200rpm
Visiontek 9600xt 256mb
BenQ DW1640 (BSOB), LITEON LTD163 (GH5S-D)
Sony 8x DVD+R (YUDEN000T02)
Verbatim 8x DVD+R (MCC 003}
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