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Booktyping
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shabi-ul
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6. March 2007 @ 12:48 |
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I just wanted to no if there is any way possible to booktype DVD-R discs with Nero or any other burning software?
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Member
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6. March 2007 @ 14:18 |
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Booktyping applies to DVD+Rs.
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Senior Member
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6. March 2007 @ 15:08 |
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shabi-ul- In a word ! No ! my understanding is that the area that the Booktyping ( code ? , Data , or Signal)Goes That tells your Drive That Your DVD+R is a DVD-Rom ( Booktyped to DVD-Rom ) does not exist or is already filled with data that cannot be erased or deleted on DVD-R media So There is no place to put that signal ( booktype) In reality Though Booktyping is a Good thing But if your not having compatability issues ! with DVD-R I would'nt worry about it ? Compatableness go about Like this - On Non -booktyped media DVD-R is most Compatable ! Followed Closely By DVD+R ! Booktyped DVD+R however is most Compatable of all Other Than Commercially Pressed DVD-Roms ( DVD movies ,Software ect... ) If your Players are Less Than 2 years or so old you should'nt have issues at all with most media DVD+R or DVD-R Most fairly recently made players will play Both equally well! Or as one member Once said " it'll play a Cheese Pizza provided the cheese ain't to thick " ! Or In other words DVD-R good media Very Compatabl! Cheaper on-line in Bulk Than DVD+R ! DVD+R Also Good media ( Slightly less Compatable than DVD-R = Mostly in Older Players when not Booktyped ) More Expensive when you buy in Bulk Online ( Like Taiyo Yuden's DVD+R's for example !) But is most compatible of all when booktyped as said above ! There now that I've thoroughly Confused you shabi-ul LOL!! ? The Final Decision is Yours ! good Luck My friend!
FeetZ Up ! Head Down !
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shabi-ul
Member
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7. March 2007 @ 14:17 |
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why can you booktype CD-R disc but not DVD-R discs!!
by the way i read somewhere that there are some new dvd drives which are able to booktype DVD-Rs, but i cant remember where i read it!
ill try and find it and get bak 2 u
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AfterDawn Addict
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7. March 2007 @ 15:58 |
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It is possible to booktype dash format media to dvd-rom,but not feasable because the plus format can already change the booktype.
You also have to have a booktyping capable drive. if not,there may be a hacked firmware to booktype- Pioneer/NEC
I haven't heard of booktying cd-r.
HP a1118x-b/athlon 64-3300+/BenQ 1650 BCDC/LG 8163B/Modded Wii/Epson-R300 and Ty Watershields!!! |
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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7. March 2007 @ 16:20 |
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CD-Rs conform to red, yellow, or orange book specs. There is no point in changing the book spec because the file structure determines that.
DVD-R media conform to the book specification established by the DVD Forum, which also wrote the book specs for DVD-ROM. There is no point in changing the book specification.
DVD+R media conform to the book specification established by Philips. Some players, notably early Panasonic models, intentionally prevented DVD+R media from playing in them because they "violated" the DVD Forum spec for recordable DVD; so it became possible to play a different version of the "violation game" by having the DVD+R discs lie about themselves and claim they were DVD-ROM discs with the DVD Forum approved book typ bit setting. That allowed DVD+R media to be played in Panasonic DVD players and many others, and that is how compatibility is increased.
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shabi-ul
Member
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8. March 2007 @ 15:19 |
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you can booktype CD-R discs cant you? because when i burn with Nero, it automatically make it into a CD-ROM?
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Senior Member
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8. March 2007 @ 19:01 |
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shabi-ul- Commercially made CD's Be they Music , games,or Computer programs Or perhaps even VCD's =Video CD's are Pressed /stamped Somewhat Similar To Vinyl records ! Anything you make on your computer optical media-wise is Not a CD-Rom Or a DVD-Rom what your are doing Is Burning a DVDR disc either DVD+R or DVD-R or you are Burning a CDR or one of the erasable disc in any of the optical Disc Formats ! Your not making a CD Technically anymore Than you are Making a DVd- when you burn a dvd Blank disc ! and the Bitsetting thing aside as long as your Cdr's or DVDR burns play or run on your computer , dvd Player or Game Console depending on if its a game , movie or software ! it's a moot point ! But as you seem fixated on Booktyping here is my advice " if you want to booktype The best single layer Dvd Media Buy Taiyo Yuden & or Verbatim DVD+R media - iF you want to Booktype the best DVD+R DL media Then Buy some Verbatim DVD+R DL media and be done with it ! Assuming your Burner allows Booktyping ? if It does'nt Then other than offering you information this reply ,your Post and the other members post trying to help you !won't add up to much ! Regardless though shabi-ul I wish you well in your endeavors ! good luck !
FeetZ Up ! Head Down !
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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9. March 2007 @ 07:14 |
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"Book type" refers to the specifications contained in one of a series of books published by Philips for compact discs or DVD+R/+RW media or the DVD Forum for DVD-R/-RW/-RAM. CD-ROM means "Compact Disc Read Only Memory." That means the file structure conforms to the Philips Red Book if the disc is audio or another color book if the disc fits a different format.
There is a lot of confusion regarding the meaning of book types. The only way anyone would want to alter a book type format is to change the identity of a recordable DVD+R disc to that of an unrecordable disc commonly described as "DVD-ROM" using the format used by pressed DVDs. There is no need to change any other book type because the odds are that the disc will not play at all.
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Member
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14. March 2007 @ 14:08 |
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IMHO i wonder if booktyping even really necessary? I burned about 6 bad dvd-r's in a row, was looking for info on what was going on, came across the booktyping issue and decided to go to the DVD+R and book type them to dvdrom, but the dvd+r's played fine without any booktyping involved.
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AfterDawn Addict
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14. March 2007 @ 14:27 |
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It all depends on the drives you play your backups on. They decide which format they'll play,and they may even not play any format from certain drives. Every stand alone player is different,just like every burner is different.
You've got Plus and Dash. The older drives were single format only. Dual format= more flexibility on finding the correct format to use. Booktyping,gives you even greater flexibility in the world of trying to play dvd backups on stand alone players.
Quote:
I burned about 6 bad dvd-r's in a row,
I'd have to burn 3000+ backups to get 6 bad ones.Oh yes,burner quality helps out immensely.There's some crap drives out there and their stand alone compatability rate drops significantly.
Everyone has their own opinion about a bad disc,also called coaster.Here's some definitions of a coaster:
1) Playback issues-skipping/pixellation/freezing/jumping-usually media/burn speed/sticker label/multitasking/or a crappy burner or a dirty laser lens of a stand alone player. Test them on other drives.
2) No disc error,usually pertaining to a format issue-test on other drives
3) Burn errors: Shutting down during the actual burning process-rendering a disc as ruined.Use quality media,burn half the rated speed of media.
5 or so actual burn errors in a row and windows may revert the transfer mode from DMA/UDMA to Pio mode for safety purposes.If getting a couple burn errors a row,look at the bottom of the media for any visual defects-so get a very bright light. Skip that area of spindle and try some near the bottom of spindle.
4) Burn error during the lead-in phase. Burn log says burn failed but no actual burn took place,so this disc is still good.Look at the bottom of the disc for discoloration of where it was burned. Usually a firmware update fixes that issue. Lots of people have thrown those so called coasters away when they were still good.
HP a1118x-b/athlon 64-3300+/BenQ 1650 BCDC/LG 8163B/Modded Wii/Epson-R300 and Ty Watershields!!!
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Member
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15. March 2007 @ 02:56 |
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The bad dvd's i made were actually not coasters but would not play on the dvd player i wanted them to. Only one in my house and on the computer. Once i switched to DVD+R they played on all the dvd players i tried. Is this just an issue of DVD+R being more compatable than dash?
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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15. March 2007 @ 06:16 |
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It could be several things: 1) your drive is producing better recordings on the DVD+R you are using than on the DVD-R discs (switching to another brand might even reverse that situation of that brand's discs fit differently with your drive; 2) your DVD player simply has a problem reading the DVD-R discs you make. The second situation is possible if your DVD player is very old or a Magnavox/RCA/Philips model. DVD players are all supposed to conform to the DVD Forum standards, and that means conforming to the DVD-R specifications. However, there is enough variability with circuitry (push-pull, for example) and diode alignment that tolerances can be within the specifications for both player and disc but be on the opposite ends of the specification enough to eliminate each other. The DVD+R disc is such a different design (no pre-pit information, for example) that your DVD player may able to read them.
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AfterDawn Addict
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15. March 2007 @ 12:16 |
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missing30: Some drives are set up to automatically booktype + format media-benq 1650A. Some drives-Benq 1620- DVD Shrink can set the booktype. They may be already be booktyped and you may not even know it.
Try this free program:
http://www.afterdawn.com/software/video_..._identifier.cfm
Insert one of those + format backup discs into the DVD-RW drive.
Open up dvdidentifier.
Select the drive that has that backup disc
Click Identify
Click the clipboard
Paste it back onto your next post so we can see if they are still DVD+R or Dvd-rom.
It'll look just like this:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD+R:RITEK-R04-001]
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Disc & Book Type : [DVD+R] - [DVD-ROM]
Manufacturer Name : [Ritek Corp.]
Manufacturer ID : [RITEK]
Media Type ID : [R04]
Product Revision : [001]
Blank Disc Capacity : [2,295,104 Sectors = 4.70 GB (4.38 GiB)]
Recording Speeds : [1x-2.4x , 4x , 6x-8x , 6x-16x]
------------------------------------------------------------------
HP a1118x-b/athlon 64-3300+/BenQ 1650 BCDC/LG 8163B/Modded Wii/Epson-R300 and Ty Watershields!!!
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Member
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15. March 2007 @ 12:37 |
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From DVD Identifier
------------------------------------------------------------------
Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD+R:MCC-004-000]
------------------------------------------------------------------
Disc & Book Type : [DVD+R] - [DVD-ROM]
Manufacturer Name : [Mitsubishi Chemical Corp.]
Manufacturer ID : [MCC]
Media Type ID : [004]
Product Revision : [Not Specified]
Blank Disc Capacity : [2,295,104 Sectors = 4.70 GB (4.38 GiB)]
Recording Speeds : [1x-2.4x , 4x , 6x-8x ,6x-16x}
------------------------------------------------------------------
Disc & book type contains DVD-ROM, so it must be automatically setting the book type? No wonder i was so happy with these DVD+R's.
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AfterDawn Addict
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15. March 2007 @ 13:20 |
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Another member who has confirmed that Plus format kicks the crap out of the dash format,after booktyping them!!!!
That booktyping will really pay off when you booktype the +RW and +R DL backups.Those can be even trickier for stand alone players.
BTW: That's some very good media. Use caution if you're burning them slow. Those need at least an 8x burn.
Slower the better isn't always true when you're talking about quality drives and quality verbatim media.
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Member
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15. March 2007 @ 13:25 |
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I've never heard that slower isn't always better, will keep that in mind considering they're rated at 16x.
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AfterDawn Addict
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15. March 2007 @ 13:49 |
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What's the brand name and model # of your burner?
When it comes to Verbatim/Maxell hitachi's/and Taiyo Yuden,I keep the burn at 8x. 12x burning is ok,but my Nero disc quality scans score best at 8x.
Ricoh/Ritek/Sony- I'll keep them at 4x,especially the Ritek-R04 which didn't score very good at an 8x burn. I had a 70 score with an 8x burn,but a 97 score at 4x.
When I burned MCC-004 at 2.4x,those crc errors popped up so those backups were un-rippable. If I can't re-rip my backups,then they are of no use to me. My best scores were at 8x. 12x was pretty decent,then the scored dropped when going to 4x and 2.4x.
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Member
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15. March 2007 @ 14:11 |
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My burner is a Lite-on SOHW-1633s. About 1.5 years old, just did a firmware upgrade last week.
So you recognize the disk by the info from the info from dvd-identifier, specifically the line
Quote:
Unique Disc Identifier : [DVD+R:MCC-004-000]
not by who has put the label on it?
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AfterDawn Addict
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15. March 2007 @ 15:14 |
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That code usually gives the media away. MCC is Mitsubishi Chemical Corp which is main supplier of Verbatim. That code can also be on some other brands like a few memorex and someone got them on some staple's Teon brand. There's even verbatim out there made by Taiyo Yuden.
Get the verbatim or Genuine Taiyo Yuden. It's a gamble with other brand names. Cmags and Prodisc are said to be lower quality manufacturers,but they make verbatim media media.They have to use mitsubishi's Advanced Metal AZO dye and strict quality control specifications.
There's even a way to tell the prodisc verbs from the cmag verbs by looking at the top clear part of the spindle for the arrows on the Lock and Open. Bold letters equal prodisc,Slightly itallic letters equal cmag verbatims-which are suppose to be slightly better. I just heard that yesterday, so I'll keep an eye on those verbatim spindles.
The MID code can also be faked,which Taiyo Yuden is the most common media that has counterfiets. There's a batch number on genuine Taiyo Media to better clear up if they are real or counterfeit.Order these from reputatable sites,or you can get lucky and find the +8x sony/fuji that say Made in Japan. Also -16x sony,made in japan.Check the labels out for country they were manufactured in and try to get the ones from japan.
The rest of the brands of media can have a lot of different MID codes even on the identical format and speed rate,even the exact same spindle/case pk quantity:
+8X MADE IN TAIWAN: RITEK-R03
+8X MADE IN JAPAN: MAXELL-002-00
+8X MADE IN JAPAN FULL HUB PRINTABLE: MAXELL-002-00
+8x MADE IN TAIWAN FULL HUB PRINTABLE: Prodisc
+8X MADE IN TAIWAN: Cmags
So you can have 5 different MID codes on the Maxell +8x. Same for the maxell -8x. Someone may be burning and playing perfectly when using the Japanese Hitachi maxells in the white full hubs,and get a hold of another spindle of +8x white full hubs,but made in Taiwan and get the Prodiscs which is a huge quality difference.
HP/Fuji/Sony/TDK/Staples/Phillips and just about every brand name.
Take +8x Ritek-R03: Maxell uses some,Office Depot uses them,Memorex,Ridata,and probably more brand names.
By looking at the spindles for the Made in Japan spindles,you can get the same price for maxell hitachi or the maxell cmags or riteks.
I have no burning issues with any of those manufacturers,but stand alone players may have trouble with the lower quality manufacturers-poor playback.
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Member
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15. March 2007 @ 15:40 |
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Wow
That is a ton of info. I really must have lucked out in finding the 100 pack of maxells for 25 bucks at the office depot.
Now, am i correct in assuiming that there is not alot of info on packaging, prodisk verbs and cmag verbs aside, it's just luck of the draw?
EDITWhat about within the same package, those should all be the same, no?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 15. March 2007 @ 15:46
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AfterDawn Addict
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15. March 2007 @ 23:45 |
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In spindles,what 1 disc codes is what the rest should be. There's been few instances this isn't so:
1 Someone taking media back to the store and they resell that spindle after taping it shut and maybe getting media mixed up.
2) I've heard of Office Depot having the 75 dvd/25 cd sale and MID codes changed on the dvds.
Most brand name media you gotta be cautious with. Same goes for store brand name like staples/compusa/etc. There's 1 exception to that. Office Depot uses some pretty good manufacturers: Ritek/Ricoh. Their big sales,you can get them for 20 cents each. So you can get 20 cent ritek-R03 or get the 25-30 cent Maxell Ritek-R03. Same exact media,different brand name and big price difference.
Next time I get to the big city,I'll give that verbatim cmag/prodisc theory a test. The only spindle I have is in bold, non-itallic so according to digital dolphin,they should be the prodisc verbs.
Ligitimate prodisc? I got some in the fuji and they give some rather poor quality scores.
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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16. March 2007 @ 04:36 |
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A drive's firmware determines the power settings to be applied to a disc during recording. (Firmware does a lot of other things, too, but I'll just talk about MID recognition and power band settings.) The power settings are the amount of power and the shape of the power pulse--long, short, long, long, short, and so forth. Some dyes, such as phthalocyanine dyes used in most CD-Rs, are quick to react to the laser pulse and use what is known as a "short write strategy." This works well at high-speed recording, not so well at speeds slower than 8X for CD-Rs. Cyanine is just the reverse: it uses a long write strategy and works very well at the slow speeds.
DVD dyes must react to a different wavelength of laser light; so they are different types from those used for CD-Rs. Each is tuned to a particular speed rating, but often the tolerance can be wide enough to accommodate multiple speeds. This is important for a 16X rated disc to be used in a video recorder at 1X. (The tolerance band for phase change rewritable discs is very narrow. That's why there are incompatible standard, high-speed, and ultra-speed CD-RWs.)
If the Verbatim 16X media are producing high errors at 2.4X, it is likely because the drive firmware is applying too much power at the slower speed. A faster speed is more suitable for the dye. However, a DVD video recorder would probably record those same discs at 1X with acceptable results because its firmare is tuned best for "very slow" real-time speeds. It all depends on how well the firmware engineers designed the power application for the different discs. For video recorders, it's easy: 1X. For drives, it's more difficult: six formats (+-R/+-RW and DL+-), multiple speeds from 4X to 16X or more, and scores of different MID codes. When retail prices of drives drop below $40, firmware engineering takes a hit; and the designs get sloppy. (Note in Nero how seldom new drives offer multiple speeds anymore. They're 6X, 8X, maybe 12X, and 16X. 1X, 2X, 2.4X, and 4X are gone.)
Saugmon is correct about your drive--it appears to automatically convert the DVD+R to a DVD-ROM type. I think this started with Pioneer's DL drives that did the same thing because so many older DVD players were not programmed to understand that a DL disc could also be a recordable disc. Such things were not possible when they were "born." DVD-R DL has not been as successful, perhaps because DVD Forum rules limit them to "proper" self-identification.
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