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Modded Xbox 360s banned from XBL
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The following comments relate to this news article:
article published on 18 May, 2007
As many Afterdawn users found out the hard way this week, Microsoft has begun banning modified Xbox 360 consoles from being able to access Xbox Live. A Microsoft spokesperson described the move as "an important part of our efforts to try and maintain a fair gaming environment for the large majority of gamers that play by the rules".
Microsoft also said it was banning by unit rather than ... [ read the full article ]
Please read the original article before posting your comments.
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samuels
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24. May 2007 @ 15:25 |
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Quote:
[quote]so this can be very questionable in a court of law,as all live subcribers are playing legit(even with a modded console)they are still paying for a service.
You go right on ahead and keep thinking that. I'm tired of talking past you.[/quote]you are the one having difficulties my friend...i'm also getting tired of discussing it with you as well.
do a hunt round,you will come up with something i'm sure,there is supposedly a fix,coming to the way of the modded box, this weekend,keep an eye out,not that it worries me,as i don't play live.
i have been informed that several people here in oz land have been disabled from live,due to a flashed drive,they are making enquiries with M$ today,so they have stirred up some trouble all round,they have just shot themselves in the foot....accept it,M$ have stuffed up,also accept that a fix is on the way.
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robtwilk
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24. May 2007 @ 15:26 |
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This is seems pretty straight forward to me, but I'm no lawyer:
An EULA is a legal contract between the manufacturer and/or the author and the end user of an application (service). The EULA details how the software (service) can and cannot be used and any restrictions that the manufacturer imposes.
Not every EULA is the same. In all instances, the user has the option of not accepting the EULA, subsequently surrendering the rights and ability to use the software (service).
As in typical legal contracts, the EULA protects both parties from liability if the software (service) is used in a way not intended by the manufacturer or author.
M$'s agreement is pretty clear how they feel about modified consoles. Would it be better if M$ banned all Live users from countries that had laws that would invalidate the contract? At least in this case, users with non-modded boxes can use the service.
I'm not M$ fan by any means... But I think they have a valid arguement against modified consoles.
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samuels
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24. May 2007 @ 15:35 |
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Originally posted by ZIppyDSM:
so this can be very questionable in a court of law,as all live subcribers are playing legit(even with a modded console)they are still paying for a service.
Not really you break the rules of the EULA and you can be tossed ,ever play wow? they are nazistic on abuse warnings and temp ban people for days just because of reports.
you can lose a months worth of play time just for ticking off some people,I do not know if its better now adays but...meh.
this is the point,how many people ARE REALLY abusing people,stalking them,sure it happens,and as stated before,this should not be tolerated,and a ban should be placed,also from what i hear,most people play online with friends,rarely playing with complete strangers over the other side of the world,but thats not the issue here,M$ says it is,but it's not,you know it and i know it,it's all about,because someone worked out how to hack their supposed unbreakeable code to play back-ups.
it has been reported that a well known hacker, has found out(high possibility) of how they are doing it,it has nothing to do with drive flashing.
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samuels
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24. May 2007 @ 15:42 |
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Originally posted by robtwilk:
This is seems pretty straight forward to me, but I'm no lawyer:
An EULA is a legal contract between the manufacturer and/or the author and the end user of an application (service). The EULA details how the software (service) can and cannot be used and any restrictions that the manufacturer imposes.
Not every EULA is the same. In all instances, the user has the option of not accepting the EULA, subsequently surrendering the rights and ability to use the software (service).
As in typical legal contracts, the EULA protects both parties from liability if the software (service) is used in a way not intended by the manufacturer or author.
M$'s agreement is pretty clear how they feel about modified consoles. Would it be better if M$ banned all Live users from countries that had laws that would invalidate the contract? At least in this case, users with non-modded boxes can use the service.
I'm not M$ fan by any means... But I think they have a valid arguement against modified consoles.
sure in your country....the way backups are made today,are exact replicas of the original,with all the security sectors in the same place as the original disc,M$ signed codes as well,etc.
they don't have valid arguments in countries that allow modded consoles
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gormly
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1. June 2007 @ 04:27 |
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Samuels
It is very obvious that you ( and many others here) do not understand:
1. The Law (of most every country including yours and the country of origin USA)
2. Agreements between parties. (Like an EULA)
The EULA spells it out pretty clearly and by purchasing the XBOX360 and subscribing to live you agree to the policies in the EULA, you are not forced to use the Live service and it is not required for a good experience with the 360 itself.
It is YOUR choice to use the Live service.
You lose nothing in value if you cannot access the Live service.
You may be free to mod a 360 to your hearts content in your country (or any country for that matter) but that has nothing to do with the case at hand.
MS is not stopping you from modding your hardware, they are stopping you from using a modified console to access their network. This is clearly defined in the EULA.
I do not understand how you keep missing this point.
Your argument is like a temper tantrum.. "but I wannaaaaaa...."
You seem to want to hide behind.. "well how can they cheat" "and backups are ok" "so what if someone is cheating" and "its my money I paid.." kind of like many 12 year old thought patterns, and you keep completely missing the crux of the isssue.
MS$ could give two craps if you use backups or you "cheat", they care about the integrety of their Live Network.
THAT IS ALL!
Other arguments here are better describing the WHY they care about their network and you completely glossed over them, so I wont't rehash here, but reread a few of eandtc posts and you'll maybe start to grasp it.
You use hardware that may compromise that network and that hardware is no longer wanted on the network.. simple.
None of your rights have been violated.
You also seem to be under the assumption that by banning some "innocent" users that MS opens themselves to a lawsuit, you are clearly not knowledgeable of the laws in your own country.
Your argument amounts to a preteen being punished and a subsequent lashout.
oh and one more thing... learn how to quote correctly eh?
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samuels
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1. June 2007 @ 04:35 |
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Originally posted by gormly:
Samuels
It is very obvious that you ( and many others here) do not understand:
1. The Law (of most every country including yours and the country of origin USA)
2. Agreements between parties. (Like an EULA)
The EULA spells it out pretty clearly and by purchasing the XBOX360 and subscribing to live you agree to the policies in the EULA, you are not forced to use the Live service and it is not required for a good experience with the 360 itself.
It is YOUR choice to use the Live service.
You lose nothing in value if you cannot access the Live service.
You may be free to mod a 360 to your hearts content in your country (or any country for that matter) but that has nothing to do with the case at hand.
MS is not stopping you from modding your hardware, they are stopping you from using a modified console to access their network. This is clearly defined in the EULA.
I do not understand how you keep missing this point.
Your argument is like a temper tantrum.. "but I wannaaaaaa...."
You seem to want to hide behind.. "well how can they cheat" "and backups are ok" "so what if someone is cheating" and "its my money I paid.." kind of like many 12 year old thought patterns, and you keep completely missing the crux of the isssue.
MS$ could give two craps if you use backups or you "cheat", they care about the integrety of their Live Network.
THAT IS ALL!
Other arguments here are better describing the WHY they care about their network and you completely glossed over them, so I wont't rehash here, but reread a few of eandtc posts and you'll maybe start to grasp it.
You use hardware that may compromise that network and that hardware is no longer wanted on the network.. simple.
None of your rights have been violated.
You also seem to be under the assumption that by banning some "innocent" users that MS opens themselves to a lawsuit, you are clearly not knowledgeable of the laws in your own country.
Your argument amounts to a preteen being punished and a subsequent lashout.
oh and one more thing... learn how to quote correctly eh?
now you say we whinge,some may some don't...me personally i don't give a flying razoo about XBL my point was that we are allowed to do as we see fit with our consoles,I.E mod them,to play original imports,but those days are long gone....
i did this out of curiousty,i have been on XBL since last posting on here,so,something is not right at M$'s end
so to reitterate,i made it a point that it was not only modded boxes getting banned,it was legit ones as well,i also stated that i am not into XBL.furthermore if you were reffering to me how to learn to quote,you learn how to read the complete forum....booowhoooo about quoting.
PS,,,i'm not literate about my laws in my country eh....you should never ever say something like that,unless you can back it up!!
also you seem to think M$ is immune to lawsuits for a failure of service to the innocent,i think you had better wake up and move on out of fantasy land my friend,it's just like someone suing you for a service you neglect to a customer...what ever it maybe.
and furthermore you are "lashing" out.
if i was an xbox live subscriber and i was banned for no reason what so ever,i think my rights have been violated,as i (if i was subscribed-but i'm not,like stated previously) my rights would have been violated.it's just like me pulling you up in a vehicle,take a look at you and the vehicle,come to a conclusion,ask for your licence,not give it back,inform you that your licence is now effectively suspended,until you get what ever i wrote you up for.....i bet you'd cry ...hey you can't do that,thats violating my rights/civil liberties,because you didn't do anything wrong.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. June 2007 @ 04:46
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morguex
Account closed as per user's own request
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1. June 2007 @ 04:53 |
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Thanks you Gormly
It seems no matter how clear you make things to some people, they just don't get it.
Nothing personal Samuels, but when your wrong your just plain old wrong.
Anyway I think this issue has been beaten to death.
Let it rest in peace.
Peace all
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davidrose
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1. June 2007 @ 07:47 |
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Originally posted by morguex:
Thanks you Gormly
It seems no matter how clear you make things to some people, they just don't get it.
Nothing personal Samuels, but when your wrong your just plain old wrong.
Anyway I think this issue has been beaten to death.
Let it rest in peace.
Peace all
Exactly right... The nerve of some not to see it ?MY WAY? lol, funny I believe in (Freedom) so much in that I fought killed and was willing to die for this, The Right for everyone to believe the way they wish, Doesn?t mean I have to agree or approve just the freedom to do so, it is very precious that blood is being spilt and lives lost.
On Topic:
I think my 5.3 is still online I only played my backups 4 or 5 months ago will wait awhile to try it if I get banned I will get another 360 and play that one online with orginals.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. June 2007 @ 07:55
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samuels
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1. June 2007 @ 13:51 |
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Originally posted by morguex:
Thanks you Gormly
It seems no matter how clear you make things to some people, they just don't get it.
Nothing personal Samuels, but when your wrong your just plain old wrong.
Anyway I think this issue has been beaten to death.
Let it rest in peace.
Peace all
OK tell me where i am wrong..in law,fair enough about the EULA,even though ours is worded slightly different than the USA's(from memory)but it still implies the same thing,i was talking about the "innocent people getting banned from XBL,thats where my issues came in about M$ liable for a lawsuit,good on you if you can get away with a flashed drive without M$ detecting it,i also stated i was not into XBL.i understood everyones post,but not one reffered to the innocent users,and why did they get banned?you can make up any exscuses you want,but M$ stuffed up big time.you want it rested,fine by me,but i believe that at least i'm not ignorant to the fact at hand for the terms of service for the innocent,and there has been quite a few banned...care to elaborate on this issue?
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Senior Member
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1. June 2007 @ 14:11 |
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If you did not mod your 360 and got banned, that's a different story. Microsoft needs to be responsible for restoring their service. Though, it's up to each individual to contact xbl service. It's not enough to say microsoft should allow all modded xbox on, because they mistakenly banned 1 or 2 un-modded ones
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samuels
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1. June 2007 @ 14:21 |
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Originally posted by blackvamp:
If you did not mod your 360 and got banned, that's a different story. Microsoft needs to be responsible for restoring their service. Though, it's up to each individual to contact xbl service. It's not enough to say microsoft should allow all modded xbox on, because they mistakenly banned 1 or 2 un-modded ones
they have contacted microsoft,sent in their consoles,have had them returned,some to find that they had been given back a modded xbox 360,and the ban still in place...wheres the justice in that?they have to just chance it and hope like buggery that they can get unbanned sometime down the track,or at least keep sending their consoles back in until they get one that will connect,(not as rare as some people may think-this issue)
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Senior Member
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1. June 2007 @ 14:35 |
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they have contacted microsoft,sent in their consoles,have had them returned,some to find that they had been given back a modded xbox 360,and the ban still in place...
Wow. I found that highly unbelievable. Have you/your close friend personally experienced it? Or is it one of those "I've read/heard it from someone's friend's friend" deal? I mean think about it, why would ms do that? If you really sent in an un-modded xbox in, why wouldn't they just unlock it from banned list rather than go through all the trouble of modding it for you? Swapping your good xbox with a defective one and claiming it's the one you had, is considered fraud. It just doesn't make sense to them to do that.
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samuels
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1. June 2007 @ 14:38 |
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[quote]they have contacted microsoft,sent in their consoles,have had them returned,some to find that they had been given back a modded xbox 360,and the ban still in place...
Wow. I found that highly unbelievable. Have you/your close friend personally experienced it? Or is it one of those "I've read/heard it from someone's friend's friend" deal? I mean think about it, why would ms do that? If you really sent in an un-modded xbox in, why wouldn't they just unlock it from banned list rather than go through all the trouble of modding it for you? Swapping your good xbox with a defective one and claiming it's the one you had, is considered fraud. It just doesn't make sense to them to do that.[/quote]
do a search on this forum you will find it,i knew i would get a response like this....do a search on afterdawn and you will find it :)
have a read through this...PM the chappy that made the statement,he may well be able to shed some more light on this matter for you.
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/29/509709#3118590
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. June 2007 @ 14:41
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davidrose
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1. June 2007 @ 14:42 |
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I have read a few posts in a few forums here and there, of some buying second hand and not realizing they where in jeopardy, also some insisting they hadn?t modded and switched to the original too late they already caught them when it was modded. Not at all a M$ fanboy but people do tell tales out of school.
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Messaline
Newbie
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1. June 2007 @ 14:51 |
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I think the issue with receiving a modded xbox back, in return for an unmodded one is that microsloth(sp) recons exisiting XBs for exchange, they don't send new.
In all probability, some modded ones are slipping into the exchange pool, passing QC and going back out as intact.
not having experienced it first hand on an XB product, but from other manufacturers , this is of course a hypothesis
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morguex
Account closed as per user's own request
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1. June 2007 @ 14:53 |
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Samuels maybe in Australia you are allowed to mod your 360, thats all well and good for you.
Now maybe I'm wrong about this next part, but MS is based in the U.S. and i assume you are accessing there servers through the U.S. which means you have to abide by the EULA rules in the U.S.
Which means when you sign up for XBL, you have agreed to the rules and regulations of EULA in the U.S.(if i'm totaly wrong skip first paragraph and go to 2nd paragraph) ;-)
But if you really wanna get annoyed at anyone, maybe you should get annoyed at the people who mod their 360's and then try and access the XBL network and then bitch and whine that they got banned, because they are the true reason why all this crap is happening in the first place.
As for the people with legit 360's getting banned, let them prove it first and if they did get banned then they have a legit beef with MS and should follow through with getting there 360's allowed back on the network.
Anyway I've had enough of this discussion.
Peace all
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eandtc
Newbie
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1. June 2007 @ 14:56 |
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do a search on this forum you will find it,i knew i would get a response like this....do a search on afterdawn and you will find it :)
have a read through this...PM the chappy that made the statement,he may well be able to shed some more light on this matter for you.
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dont tell them anything, they usually dont scan them for firmwares or anything they just check to see if its been opened and they may not check to see, just send it to them and if they contact you telling you that you have to pay to fix it then tell them you want it back unrepaired.
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Just so you know this before you move on. If you send in your Xbox to MS for repair there is a good chance that you will not even get the same 360 back. They are know for just sending you out one that they have already refurbished. So you may get another modded system and you may not. There is really no telling what you will get back.
LOL...the guy is just making up a scenario, and you are taking it as a factual event. The biggest concern I see in that thread is someone sending in their modded box, and having it returned "fixed", which is understandable, but there's nothing in your link to support your case at all.
[EDIT]
Decided to look on the next page, and found this:
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Heck people with unmodded consoles have been banned. (or at least they thought it was unmodded which could be faulse if they bought it used somewhere like Ebay)
Yet ANOTHER plausible scenario to explain these supposed "innocent bannings". It's looking worse for you. XD
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. June 2007 @ 15:06
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samuels
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1. June 2007 @ 15:31 |
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[quote]do a search on this forum you will find it,i knew i would get a response like this....do a search on afterdawn and you will find it :)
have a read through this...PM the chappy that made the statement,he may well be able to shed some more light on this matter for you.
Quote:
dont tell them anything, they usually dont scan them for firmwares or anything they just check to see if its been opened and they may not check to see, just send it to them and if they contact you telling you that you have to pay to fix it then tell them you want it back unrepaired.
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Just so you know this before you move on. If you send in your Xbox to MS for repair there is a good chance that you will not even get the same 360 back. They are know for just sending you out one that they have already refurbished. So you may get another modded system and you may not. There is really no telling what you will get back.
LOL...the guy is just making up a scenario, and you are taking it as a factual event. The biggest concern I see in that thread is someone sending in their modded box, and having it returned "fixed", which is understandable, but there's nothing in your link to support your case at all.
[EDIT]
Decided to look on the next page, and found this:
Quote:
Heck people with unmodded consoles have been banned. (or at least they thought it was unmodded which could be faulse if they bought it used somewhere like Ebay)
Yet ANOTHER plausible scenario to explain these supposed "innocent bannings". It's looking worse for you. XD[/quote]
did you ask him if it was a scenario?sure iv'e heard it on the net,but surely not everyone lies,check all the forums,check out maxconsole,here(afterdawn),xboxscene,etc,etc,
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eandtc
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1. June 2007 @ 15:44 |
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"did you ask him if it was a scenario?"
Uhm, this is YOUR proof. YOU ask him before citing his comments as FACT.
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sure iv'e heard it on the net,but surely not everyone lies
Your weak attempt at making a truism still is not proof. Get your own facts straight before attempting to tell everyone else what's what. Seems a simple concept to me.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. June 2007 @ 15:44
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AfterDawn Addict
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1. June 2007 @ 16:26 |
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Looks like I have missed absolutely nothing in this thread, how fun :)
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samuels
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1. June 2007 @ 16:30 |
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[quote]"did you ask him if it was a scenario?"
Uhm, this is YOUR proof. YOU ask him before citing his comments as FACT.
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sure iv'e heard it on the net,but surely not everyone lies
Your weak attempt at making a truism still is not proof. Get your own facts straight before attempting to tell everyone else what's what. Seems a simple concept to me.[/quote]
no it's a link....by no means is it my proof,you want to know,ask him/her yourself....i have several friends that have had their 360's replaced with refurbished ones,whether it was returned flashed,i cannot say,reason, i never asked.as for me getting my facts straight,you find them yourself...i have nothing to prove in this scenario....the way you are coming accross is that you are implying all internet users liars!!
PS...i would have to ask him for permission before i cited the said poster for it to be fact,to place in this section,something to which i am not going to do,you want to know...bottom line is do a search,make up your own mind,before calling me a liar or me trying to back up my claims...
so just get over it,so what if i'm wrong,so what if your wrong,are we not allowed to express an opinion on a forum without turning it into a slanging match?who cares who's right or wrong,most of us have done searches on this topic,and we have all come up with different answers...
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. June 2007 @ 16:38
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eandtc
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2. June 2007 @ 04:22 |
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"you are implying all internet users liars!!
No.
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calling me a liar
Yes.
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so just get over it,so what if i'm wrong,so what if your wrong,are we not allowed to express an opinion on a forum without turning it into a slanging match?who cares who's right or wrong,most of us have done searches on this topic,and we have all come up with different answers...
Quote:
Ladies and gentlemen, I'll be brief. The issue here is not whether we broke a few rules, or took a few liberties with our female party guests - we did. But you can't hold a whole fraternity responsible for the behavior of a few, sick twisted individuals. For if you do, then shouldn't we blame the whole fraternity system? And if the whole fraternity system is guilty, then isn't this an indictment of our educational institutions in general? I put it to you, Greg - isn't this an indictment of our entire American society? Well, you can do whatever you want to us, but I for one am not going to stand here and listen to you badmouth the United States of America. Gentlemen!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 2. June 2007 @ 04:30
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samuels
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2. June 2007 @ 04:30 |
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[quote]"you are implying all internet users liars!!
No.
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calling me a liar
Yes.[/quote]
so your lying too then...point made
i believe you to be a liar too,why should i believe a word you say,another point made...so 2 of us are lying,so that means the rest of the world is lying....
you may find some interesting reading here,at least they aren't bitching,and accept what each other has to say,and accept the fact that they have been banned,also states what i have mentioned about refurbished 360's sent back already flashed....go figure huh....they must be lying too.
http://www.xbox360fanboy.com/2007/05/18/...anned-from-live
http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?s...=330&p=3996481&
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 2. June 2007 @ 04:39
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davidrose
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2. June 2007 @ 16:25 |
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Originally posted by svtstang:
Looks like I have missed absolutely nothing in this thread, how fun :)
Wish all this was constructive in some way..
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Advertisement
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samuels
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2. June 2007 @ 16:27 |
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Quote:
Originally posted by svtstang:
Looks like I have missed absolutely nothing in this thread, how fun :)
Wish all this was constructive in some way..
well learn how to comprehend :)
nothing in this world is ever really constructive,as no-one ever believes anyone,they just like to spit and spatter....thats life
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