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US Government goes after console mod chip makers
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The following comments relate to this news article:
article published on 1 August, 2007
This morning, the US Government announced it has executed 32 search warrants in 16 different states in an effort to crackdown on console mod chip makers, claiming the chips cause the video game industry billions of dollars in lost revenue each year.
The warrants were out for companies that produce mod chips, which effectively bypass any copyright protection, allowing gamers to play downloaded ... [ read the full article ]
Please read the original article before posting your comments.
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AfterDawn Addict
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5. August 2007 @ 11:31 |
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Originally posted by zedro:
Then it just goes to who decides what's ok and what's not. Open modding will work until someone wants to do something that M$ says no to. Opening the door to emulation and homebrew games could, maybe, in some way hurt the bottom line in the future. The way I see it, monitored & controlled homebrew/modding defeats the purpose.
And Steam is just the begging of the end of privacy. Steam is about forced monitoring. What if they want to force you to watch commercials in between levels sometime in the future? Or have Steam randomly scan your computer for programs, files or websites that MAY be used for piracy. Or maybe the full price of a game only gets you six months of play before have to fork over more money. Requiring registration (information that they can sell to any number of companies) and having an internet connection for playing a single play game is only for them to get their meat hooks in you slow and steady so the can really screw you later on. Same goes for M$ and Sony online system. Once the systems in place, they can change it to whatever they want and in the end they can force you to do pretty much anything they want. And if you don?t like it, you won?t be allowed to play anything on their systems.
Ya I hate steam with every other fiber of my being because it prevents you from fully owning a game,however to using a system like it to enable home brews/cheats on a console is not a bad idea,I would put up with it if they let me cheat in SP games and play backups...I tend to not get a game I cant cheat on anyway LOL.
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plazma247
Member
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5. August 2007 @ 12:41 |
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Agreed if its a single player game zippy, however on the online games ... one of the sad fact remains that the guys who normally do the best in what ever game normally do so by running some sort of a mod.
Dont get me wrong or flame me this is not always the case but its sooo common place.
However i think mods are a good things, mod trainers especially apart from being lots of fun they teach you how to play the game more effectivly without them.
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AfterDawn Addict
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5. August 2007 @ 12:55 |
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Originally posted by plazma247:
Agreed if its a single player game zippy, however on the online games ... one of the sad fact remains that the guys who normally do the best in what ever game normally do so by running some sort of a mod.
Dont get me wrong or flame me this is not always the case but its sooo common place.
However i think mods are a good things, mod trainers especially apart from being lots of fun they teach you how to play the game more effectivly without them.
thats why you have a DRM style system in place to protect online and statical gathering to find and prevent abuse.
I think console makers need to have the cheat device makers a bit closer to them so they can work together to make cheating profitable but at the same time protect online.
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plazma247
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5. August 2007 @ 12:59 |
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Haowwwdy Zipps :> long time no c.... anyway i agree something like punk buster would be idea... however dont get me wrong that been by-passed at times in the past but has always been upgraded.
Microsoft did try locking modded consoles from xbox live (home) a while back but then someone released a patch for that as well, hehe.
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AfterDawn Addict
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5. August 2007 @ 14:04 |
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Originally posted by plazma247:
Haowwwdy Zipps :> long time no c.... anyway i agree something like punk buster would be idea... however dont get me wrong that been by-passed at times in the past but has always been upgraded.
Microsoft did try locking modded consoles from xbox live (home) a while back but then someone released a patch for that as well, hehe.
Well if tis somethign you buy with a one time fee for your live account then MS would watch over it more and ban the accounts as needed,no matter what they do things are goign to get hacked but offering the people a choice with a small fee they then can watch over it more closely,big brother is not bad when you know where he is ^^
again I prefer a middle ground hell prehaps MS should make a kit sale it for 50 and people can have their home brew and cheats of coarse it would disable online, of coarse anythign is almost better than "zomg call of the black boots".
I still think MS should take the lead with its own cheat system, alas its all wishful thinking...
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plazma247
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5. August 2007 @ 14:57 |
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I hope you werent pointing at me :-p
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AfterDawn Addict
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5. August 2007 @ 15:27 |
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Originally posted by plazma247:
I hope you werent pointing at me :-p
Yes,I am saying I would be happy with big brother as long as he keeps his hands to himself :P
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zedro
Newbie
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5. August 2007 @ 16:38 |
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Originally posted by ZIppyDSM:
Yes,I am saying I would be happy with big brother as long as he keeps his hands to himself :P
That's wishfull thinking, my friend. ;)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. August 2007 @ 16:39
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AfterDawn Addict
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5. August 2007 @ 17:05 |
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Quote:
Originally posted by ZIppyDSM:
Yes,I am saying I would be happy with big brother as long as he keeps his hands to himself :P
That's wishfull thinking, my friend. ;)
yes yes its true big brother can not keep his hands off 0-o
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blompod
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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6. August 2007 @ 02:31 |
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Here in Australia there was a court case a few years back in which the Judge ruled in favor of mod-chips and modders. What he (the Judge) basiclly said went something along the lines....that Region Encoding (locking) was a means by which the console manufacturers (he mentioned Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo by name) and the software industry could lock-in different makets and essentially "price-fix" those markets. He said Australian consumers had "the right" to purchase and use Software from anywhere in the world. Consumer's also had the right to make leagal backups of expensive software that they had leagaly purchased. He also said that the hardware (consoles) once bought and paid for by the consumer was their property do to with as they pleased.
What's NOT legal of course is the "aqusisition" and use of software that breaches any form of copyright.
So a long stoy short - "chipping" and modding consoles is perfectly leagal in Australia as it should be in all free countries...
Regards
Mark
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Senior Member
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6. August 2007 @ 03:16 |
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Originally posted by blompod:
as it should be in all free countries...
Are you referring to the US? Our freedom left us when the DMCA came into effect, so I fail to see how this comment is relevant to the news article... :P
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plazma247
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6. August 2007 @ 03:22 |
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I think it was mate, as it does make a good example of how 1 country, ie australia saw in favour of the modchip manufactures. Where as a country which had a console maker in its borders saw infavour of the manufactures.
I think his freedom comment was a moot point at the end mate... but never the less it wasnt a bad one.
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blompod
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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6. August 2007 @ 04:35 |
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Yeah, by "all free countries"...I wasn't singling out the US in particualr...perhaps "all free market economies" would have been better.
It has always been a sticking point for Aussies how our software (particularly games) prices are substantially higher than elsewhere especially when compared to US prices. For example FFXII retails here for $99AU (approx.$85US). I did some investigation into this discrepancy some time ago and there appears to be absoultly no reason for it other than "that's what the industry believes the market will bare here" - that's an exact quote from an Australian distributor.
My point is - that's how Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo et.al. facilitate these discrpancies is by "locking-in" various markets via region encoding. Forcing some smaller markets to essentially subsidise the larger ones. If they'd open up the market and make everything "region free" - thus lowering prices - there'd be be a lot less people bothering to mod their consoles and therefor (hopefully?) less piracy.
Another point - I'm an ardent RPG fan and the number of great Japanese RPG's (english versions) that are released only in NTSC format (Persona, Odin Sphere etc.) almost necessitates a modded console and importing. It would be ridiculous and unfair to prosecute people for this.
Sorry for waffling on...but these are very sore points with me and have been for some time....
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Senior Member
13 product reviews
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6. August 2007 @ 12:11 |
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My last post was simply a witty comment, though to a large extent true, I'm not contesting what you're saying at all.
I am a bit more than upset by what's going on on this end, but the prices for you guy's is nuts, I wasn't aware they were that much higher there... Importing really isn't that much of an issue for me, but to not be able to run backups... Not good, not good at all...
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blompod
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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6. August 2007 @ 12:42 |
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That's cool nintenut - I know where you're comming from.
I've been a 'lurker' here on AD for quite a while but this issues got me riled enough to sign up and start posting. I just hate the way the industry heavyweights like to take the "high moral ground" when their own morals are seriously in question on these issues.
I believe they are largely responsible for the current situation regarding piracy with their highly questionable so called "marketing stratagies".
On prices here again - PS3 and Xbox 360 games hit the shelves here at $120AU (over $100US) and we just 'cop it sweet' - why?. I think that was one of the points the Judge in the court case I mentioned saw. He noted that pricing discrepancy also.
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AfterDawn Addict
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6. August 2007 @ 12:58 |
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the US and Jp get price breaks for being preferred,while other places get highjacked by 30-60% ontop of what we get in the US,even if taxes are part of that 30-60% it still dose not add up.
As always I am disgusted with corporate greed, for me its simple,profit is ok profiteering (making more than 2X profit) is bad for capitalism and the world.
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Member
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7. August 2007 @ 14:11 |
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BULL****! This entire thing is about money, money, money! They can't stand that they're losing money. They spend 2.5 million at most for a huge hit, make 2.5 billion off of it and ***** about a couple million dollars worth of illegal copies! Corporate Communists!!!!!
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AfterDawn Addict
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7. August 2007 @ 14:35 |
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Originally posted by Crazykid3:
BULL****! This entire thing is about money, money, money! They can't stand that they're losing money. They spend 2.5 million at most for a huge hit, make 2.5 billion off of it and ***** about a couple million dollars worth of illegal copies! Corporate Communists!!!!!
Fascist would be more correct,Communist is give everything to the people but take away their rights.
What they are doing is stifling innovation and consuemrs rights,once they are removed from capitalism you have a stagnant climate where the current industry is protected at the cost of meaningful growth and consumer rights.
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zedro
Newbie
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7. August 2007 @ 16:31 |
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I shutter to think what?s next. If they somehow got control of the ?piracy? and region control and locked it completely, which at it current state is not possible, but if they could, people would be at the mercy of the companies. They price games in a way people don?t ?really? feel there getting ripped off. They say prices they charge now are high because of piracy (And I think they classify bypassing region control as piracy or else they wouldn?t lock it). But if they got rid of it completely, do you really think the price would go down? If anything, it would go up because no one would be able to get it any where else.
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AfterDawn Addict
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9. August 2007 @ 08:57 |
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Well what can one say,its all bad
Sites are dropping like flies
Teammodders is down (a site of which i was there at the beginning),team Xecuter is no longer supplying,and now i here norcalmods is closed
thats probaly the tip of the iceberg
Having said that,i have never copied anything in my life,so at least i'm safe here in the u.k (for now)
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ss6phil
Member
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9. August 2007 @ 12:42 |
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but to be honest this isnt going to stop this at all, when companies announce that their console cannot be chipped and that is when hackers step in and prove them wrong. the thing is locking the regions have created this problem in that since im living in the uk it is hard to get hold of games like for example chrono trigger on the ps1 just because they decided they wont release it over here and the only solution is to import and make sure the console is able to play it really. to play games which other countries cant get hold of but being told that the game is good is annoying to players all across the world since they wont have the experience of the game. i agree with modding in that case just to make your console multi regional.
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AfterDawn Addict
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10. August 2007 @ 00:13 |
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I agree that consoles/games should be region free,but that,in my opinion is not the reason why most user's mod there consoles
The main reason,plain and simple,is so they can boot copied games
Theres no getting away from that fact,no matter what anybody says.
Yes,some say they want to preserve there original,and my dads the pope,....but lets get real....
We all knew this would come one day,and we hope it will blow over,because losing teammodders was a blow to me and a lot of other members there who have been there from the beginning,even before the TM site
People have just got to hold tight,and remember one thing
Piracy will never be stopped
It may be tamed,and they may think it will be under control to a certain extent.
But it will never cease,there is just too much money involved.
Regards
Hursty
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Senior Member
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12. August 2007 @ 19:47 |
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Thats bullocks that Teammodders.com got taken down, along with all the other sites. I've heard that TM was a great forum too, just never got around to registering there, though I wish I had.
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AfterDawn Addict
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13. August 2007 @ 06:45 |
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Just for the record tho TM was taken offline by choice
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Senior Member
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13. August 2007 @ 12:36 |
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Oh ok, so they weren't forced then.
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