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Wii Softmod: We're So Damn Close
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seethewii
Newbie
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9. February 2008 @ 10:48 |
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I believe we're so very close to a wii softmod being released. I mean, see how far we've come:
- Several Modchips have been released
- ISOs have been easily made
- a LAN adapter has become available
- external harddrives can be used on the wii as well as SD cards
- A serial port dongle mod has been released
- It's been found that Elliptic Curve Cryptography Is used For Saves with the NIST B 233 bit elliptic curve (identified as as sect233r1 in openssl)
- and Wii game keys have been found and working wii discs have been proved possible to run homebrew code
Quote:
The guys over at 24C3 just demoed a Wii hack that is set to provide native Wii
homebrew in the near future (not running in GC mode, and with full access to all the Wii hardware!)
They were able to find encryption and decryption keys by doing full memory
dumps at runtime over a custom serial interface. Using these keys, they were
able to create a Wii ?game? that ran their own code (their demo happened to show live sensor/Wiimote information, amongst a few other things).
For more information of the current state of the wii, visit wiibrew
The future holds endless possibilities.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 10. February 2008 @ 14:16
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Oxadillia
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9. February 2008 @ 11:44 |
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We may well be very close, but also bear in mind that the Wii hack at this point is very primitive and basic. It will probably be a while before any kind of softmod can be made, but it does seem likely to happen (also taking into account the other factors you mentioned)
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juniR
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10. February 2008 @ 12:38 |
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Modchipless backups is a "dunno" according to Bushing (24C3 member). I would hope in time that Wii homebrew is well and truly up and away because like other things there is so much potential in the Wii. I expect tho that depending on how it goes, Nintendo won't sit still. If it contributes to increased piracy they will do what Sony did with the PSP and go tit for tat in an effort to stop ppl.
Maybe it's close but maybe not. I've not read anything to suggest either but if someone makes a post claiming it is, and others read it, then of course they go and tell others and post elsewere etc. Ppl start asking about a softmod and even saying they know it's possible cos they read somewhere that someone has done it. LOL
All the supporting links and talk about the number of modchips out there, the fact that Isos can be made or that you can serial link your PC and run backups (effectively making your PC a big modchip btw lol) don't add any weight to the claim that a softmod is close - it's all irrelevant and nothing to do with getting into the Wii's firmware and OS itself.
Let's hope that a softmod comes but I personally never take enthusiastic claims seriously when they don't come from the horses mouth.
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Oxadillia
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10. February 2008 @ 13:02 |
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Bearing in mind though, that a large percentage won't be pirates, and they will generate income as more people will buy the console (though other areas will loose money)
I guess we just have to wait again and see what happens.
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juniR
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10. February 2008 @ 13:37 |
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Originally posted by Oxadillia:
Bearing in mind though, that a large percentage won't be pirates, and they will generate income as more people will buy the console (though other areas will loose money)
I guess we just have to wait again and see what happens.
If a softmod was to enable the use of backups without a modchip the vast majority of ppl would be pirates as are the vast majority of modchip owners. Whether or not you are against piracy or you yourself use pirated software is irrelevant - it's just a fact. So actually a small percentage of users won't be pirates. If a softmod will only enable homebrew then it will depend on what effect it has. For example I use my PSP mainly for homebrew so Sony don't make any money from me. That is a negative thing for them. They only want you to have what they want you to have - they only just got around to adding the internet radio (and it's not as good as the homebrew equivalent either). All things have knock on effects but basically it's mainly down to wanting to control the consumer and make 'em spend ;)
As far as profits from console sales is concerned - the cost of any console does not reflect good economy for the manufacturer if it isn't supported by software sales. If consoles were marketted without the expectation of these extra sales then the price of the actual console in the store would actually be greater. It's not simply down to the cost of the physical equipment itself. Research and development of existing technology and the next generation of consoles has to be funded somehow and on top of that business is driven by good profits. Nintendo will be watching closely what happens just as they have with modchips. If they can do anything to try and combat ppl running backups they will do.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 10. February 2008 @ 13:38
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Oxadillia
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10. February 2008 @ 13:42 |
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Originally posted by juniR:
Originally posted by Oxadillia:
Bearing in mind though, that a large percentage won't be pirates, and they will generate income as more people will buy the console (though other areas will loose money)
I guess we just have to wait again and see what happens.
If a softmod was to enable the use of backups without a modchip the vast majority of ppl would be pirates as are the vast majority of modchip owners. Whether or not you are against piracy or you yourself use pirated software is irrelevant - it's just a fact. So actually a small percentage of users won't be pirates. If a softmod will only enable homebrew then it will depend on what effect it has. For example I use my PSP mainly for homebrew so Sony don't make any money from me. That is a negative thing for them. They only want you to have what they want you to have - they only just got around to adding the internet radio (and it's not as good as the homebrew equivalent either). All things have knock on effects but basically it's mainly down to wanting to control the consumer and make 'em spend ;)
As far as profits from console sales is concerned - the cost of any console does not reflect good economy for the manufacturer if it isn't supported by software sales. If consoles were marketted without the expectation of these extra sales then the price of the actual console in the store would actually be greater. It's not simply down to the cost of the physical equipment itself. Research and development of existing technology and the next generation of consoles has to be funded somehow and on top of that business is driven by good profits. Nintendo will be watching closely what happens just as they have with modchips. If they can do anything to try and combat ppl running backups they will do.
If that is the case why haven't they stopped modchips?
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juniR
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10. February 2008 @ 13:59 |
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Originally posted by Oxadillia:
If that is the case why haven't they stopped modchips?
LOL - are you serious? Why did they start cutting the pins on D2B drives? Why do they bring out updates that stopped some games running until the Wiikey was updated? Why did they bring out the D2C drive? How many chips are starting to struggle with newer games cos they are struggling to get updates? How many are practically a none starter now? Dear oh dear - look at all the problems ppl have with modchips & updates etc- many ppl could do a wiikey, far fewer can do a D2Ckey and the cost of getting it done by a pro is actually putting some ppl off.
Just cos they haven't stopped modchipping totally doesn't mean to say they aren't trying. That is obvious surely? They are defo involved in a tit for tat with modchip developers and I doubt they're gonna stick with the D2C drive as it is now either.
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Oxadillia
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10. February 2008 @ 14:46 |
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Originally posted by juniR:
Originally posted by Oxadillia:
If that is the case why haven't they stopped modchips?
LOL - are you serious? Why did they start cutting the pins on D2B drives? Why do they bring out updates that stopped some games running until the Wiikey was updated? Why did they bring out the D2C drive? How many chips are starting to struggle with newer games cos they are struggling to get updates? How many are practically a none starter now? Dear oh dear - look at all the problems ppl have with modchips & updates etc- many ppl could do a wiikey, far fewer can do a D2Ckey and the cost of getting it done by a pro is actually putting some ppl off.
Just cos they haven't stopped modchipping totally doesn't mean to say they aren't trying. That is obvious surely? They are defo involved in a tit for tat with modchip developers and I doubt they're gonna stick with the D2C drive as it is now either.
Actually board revisions such as the D2C chip happen all the time in all consoles.
Nintendo and other console developers only really start to make their money when they figure out how to build their console cheaply or more efficiently...thus resulting in the D2C board revision. If you look around newer Wiis with older ones, there are loads of revisions. I would have thought that they may have got lucky, or tried some feeble attempt to stop modchips to promote anti-piracy. If they wanted to have stopped it they would have.
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juniR
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10. February 2008 @ 15:44 |
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Originally posted by Oxadillia:
Actually board revisions such as the D2C chip happen all the time in all consoles.
Nintendo and other console developers only really start to make their money when they figure out how to build their console cheaply or more efficiently...thus resulting in the D2C board revision. If you look around newer Wiis with older ones, there are loads of revisions. I would have thought that they may have got lucky, or tried some feeble attempt to stop modchips to promote anti-piracy. If they wanted to have stopped it they would have.
Nah they really start to make money regardless of revisions and efficiency - that's a small part - they have a good product that ppl want and there are games that ppl want - revisions might make some differences long term but they are definitely making money off the bat.
Once the console is sold they don't stop and think it's all over... They wanna sell games to ppl regardless of the revision of the console and they make more money on games sales than actual console sales That has always been a fact. If someone buys a just a dozen games for the Wii in the time they own it then Nintendo make more than double on the games what they do on the actual console.
And the D2C drive is definitely also to stop ppl from being able to mod their consoles with a very easy to fit Wiikey regardles of whatever other benefit it might have. Or are you claiming that they only make revisions that improve the Wii itself and don't make revisions to increase their security? Prolly just coincidenece eh? And the other questions I asked are irrelevant as well I suppose cos they were all just "revisions" like the deliberately cut drive pins - just economic and nothing to do with making the fitting a lil trickier until they thought of a better fix?
You think they aren't trying to make it tough for modchip fitters and owners? So why don't they see the potential and make money doing it themselves cos that kinda "revision" would definitely sell more consoles lol? In fact they would be able to do it so cheaply cos they just do away with the need for a modchip at all. :)
Why has Nintendo taken legal action against modchip suppliers and manufacturers whenever they can? Or is that a token gesture cos they aren't really bothered?
Any console manufacturer, whether it be Sony, Nintendo or Microsoft, will actively try to do everything they can to stop any modding of their consoles which circumvents the security. They all do on a legal front and in their own research labs. It's an ongoing fight with hackers and modchip developers. To think they don't have ppl working on anti-piracy solutions such as anti-modchip fitting ones is, imho, ridiculous.
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Oxadillia
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10. February 2008 @ 17:22 |
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Originally posted by juniR:
Originally posted by Oxadillia:
Actually board revisions such as the D2C chip happen all the time in all consoles.
Nintendo and other console developers only really start to make their money when they figure out how to build their console cheaply or more efficiently...thus resulting in the D2C board revision. If you look around newer Wiis with older ones, there are loads of revisions. I would have thought that they may have got lucky, or tried some feeble attempt to stop modchips to promote anti-piracy. If they wanted to have stopped it they would have.
Nah they really start to make money regardless of revisions and efficiency - that's a small part - they have a good product that ppl want and there are games that ppl want - revisions might make some differences long term but they are definitely making money off the bat.
Once the console is sold they don't stop and think it's all over... They wanna sell games to ppl regardless of the revision of the console and they make more money on games sales than actual console sales That has always been a fact. If someone buys a just a dozen games for the Wii in the time they own it then Nintendo make more than double on the games what they do on the actual console.
And the D2C drive is definitely also to stop ppl from being able to mod their consoles with a very easy to fit Wiikey regardles of whatever other benefit it might have. Or are you claiming that they only make revisions that improve the Wii itself and don't make revisions to increase their security? Prolly just coincidenece eh? And the other questions I asked are irrelevant as well I suppose cos they were all just "revisions" like the deliberately cut drive pins - just economic and nothing to do with making the fitting a lil trickier until they thought of a better fix?
You think they aren't trying to make it tough for modchip fitters and owners? So why don't they see the potential and make money doing it themselves cos that kinda "revision" would definitely sell more consoles lol? In fact they would be able to do it so cheaply cos they just do away with the need for a modchip at all. :)
Why has Nintendo taken legal action against modchip suppliers and manufacturers whenever they can? Or is that a token gesture cos they aren't really bothered?
Any console manufacturer, whether it be Sony, Nintendo or Microsoft, will actively try to do everything they can to stop any modding of their consoles which circumvents the security. They all do on a legal front and in their own research labs. It's an ongoing fight with hackers and modchip developers. To think they don't have ppl working on anti-piracy solutions such as anti-modchip fitting ones is, imho, ridiculous.
I'm not saying that they ignore security, I am just stating that their main priority is the more efficient and cost effective means of producing a console. Security is not as key as this when developing consoles.
And if they have taken legal action, not much has come about it. In the entire modding community, I have heard no cases of Nintendo successfully shutting down a modding company or something...mainly because its legal (in some areas).
As for cut pins, if this really was a security attempt, it has to be the most feeble of them all. I don't think that cutting 3 pins so you have to resolder them is really that big an issue to most people. If it was intended for security, they would have tried harder.
Furthermore, if you look at how modders accessed the Wii, they needed a password to gain access to some component. Do you not find it odd that the password was exactly the same as the previously cracked gamecube password, with a few capital letters. Seems like dodgy security to me...
And its because games are cheaper that they need to make consoles cheaper, to supply the demand.
Nintendo don't need extra time to think of a "better fix." I think that the techs at Nintendo might be a little bit smarter on their own console than that of a team of modders.
And as for microsoft to stop modchips, I know for a fact that it is perfectly in their power to disable them. Read around and you will find that they have ways to find this out. The question is of course, have they acted? no.
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juniR
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10. February 2008 @ 18:45 |
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http://www.google.com/search?q=nintendo+...ie7&rlz=1I7SKPB
Yeah yeah of course - the guys at Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft are extremely clever. They know their stuff inside out and never accidentally or unknowingly and especially not stupidly (cough PSP) leave any doors open...
I'm out - you are right - we'll all be soft-modded very soon and Ninty won't do a thing about it like they ain't done a thing about modchips. I give up :)
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ward646
Junior Member
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11. February 2008 @ 01:44 |
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When did this ::
"- external harddrives can be used on the wii as well as SD cards "
Happen?
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penguin98
AfterDawn Addict
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11. February 2008 @ 03:12 |
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Originally posted by ward646:
When did this ::
"- external harddrives can be used on the wii as well as SD cards "
Happen?
I heard rumors about that happening months ago but never saw it confirmed.
And I think a working softmod is several months off at least. Sure they've discovered the wii game keys but they havent actually done anything with them yet.
Softmodding is going to be difficult on a console that has regular firmware updates. Sure the PSP homebrew teams have done it, but thats a totally different situtation. Sony really dropped the ball on that peice of hardware.
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juniR
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11. February 2008 @ 08:24 |
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http://wii.qj.net/Twilight-Hack-v0-1-Alp...g/49/aid/113464
The state of play as of today. A bit like the GTA/Lumines hacks for the PSP but in the case of the PSP they pretty much knew how to downgrade the firmware and do what they wanted with it once they were able to run code as it was virtually open source lol.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 11. February 2008 @ 08:26
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Oxadillia
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11. February 2008 @ 11:44 |
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Originally posted by juniR:
http://www.google.com/search?q=nintendo+legal+action+modchips&rls=com.microsoft:en-gb:IE-SearchBox&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sourceid=ie7&rlz=1I7SKPB
Yeah yeah of course - the guys at Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft are extremely clever. They know their stuff inside out and never accidentally or unknowingly and especially not stupidly (cough PSP) leave any doors open...
I'm out - you are right - we'll all be soft-modded very soon and Ninty won't do a thing about it like they ain't done a thing about modchips. I give up :)
Haha no don't give up! You raise some really good points that I can't explain (in fact I can't explain half the stuff I said above, it makes no sense) and the only real way that we can find out is to actually be making those decisions. I guess all we can do at this time is hazard a guess (like we've been doing) as to what's going on.
(The link by the way is very interesting - thanks for letting me know)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 11. February 2008 @ 11:46
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Member
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25. February 2008 @ 21:41 |
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Hello I made a new thread about a hack that is supose to be out in about have yall heard of this,Hear is a copy and paste of the story.
1 The recently-revealed Twilight Princess exploit allows all sorts of unsigned code to run natively on the Wii. Homebrew developers are already starting to take advantage, releasing a bunch of interesting and/or useful unauthorized programs for Nintendo's little white box. Among them are Linux for Wii, MP3 player, SNES emulator, and Wii Tetris (read the full article for links to details and downloads.)
Nintendo has not reacted to the exploit. However, given their recent aggressive pursuit of game pirates, you can expect a PSP-style
battle of the firmwares to start any day now.
Just thought id share this with yall and if it's in hear already I'm sorry for posting it twice.But if not where do i sign up to learn this.
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Oxadillia
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26. February 2008 @ 15:55 |
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Originally posted by yzrider22:
Hello I made a new thread about a hack that is supose to be out in about have yall heard of this,Hear is a copy and paste of the story.
1 The recently-revealed Twilight Princess exploit allows all sorts of unsigned code to run natively on the Wii. Homebrew developers are already starting to take advantage, releasing a bunch of interesting and/or useful unauthorized programs for Nintendo's little white box. Among them are Linux for Wii, MP3 player, SNES emulator, and Wii Tetris (read the full article for links to details and downloads.)
Nintendo has not reacted to the exploit. However, given their recent aggressive pursuit of game pirates, you can expect a PSP-style
battle of the firmwares to start any day now.
Just thought id share this with yall and if it's in hear already I'm sorry for posting it twice.But if not where do i sign up to learn this.
This is very interesting and will almost inevitably lead to a softmod but it may be a while... and the actual process of installing the softmod may be difficult...
Guess we have to wait and see!
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Member
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26. February 2008 @ 16:24 |
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I am wondering if the update yesturday patches the hole, seem how the update came just hours after this story was posted.Im not updateing my wii for awhile seem how this is a def weak spot.Like you said tho wait and see.
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Oxadillia
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26. February 2008 @ 16:27 |
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Originally posted by yzrider22:
I am wondering if the update yesturday patches the hole, seem how the update came just hours after this story was posted.Im not updateing my wii for awhile seem how this is a def weak spot.Like you said tho wait and see.
I've read somewhere that Nintendo have made no initial reaction to the softmod, but its in such early stages I don't think there's much they can do...still keeping your Wii without updates is probably the best option.
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netdata
Junior Member
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17. April 2008 @ 06:43 |
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There is a Wii "format" version of the SD LOADER code,
so theoretically if the same was done for GCOS
half of the wiis original mod "abilities" will be achieved.
"It is the mark of a good programmer that they do not stop once they have found a way to make something work. Instead, the conscientious programmer sets about finding every way that their solution might not work, and then writes some code to cover those situations." -Vince Barnes
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gttdi
Member
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17. April 2008 @ 09:27 |
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but also bear in mind that the Wii hack at this point is very primitive and basic. It will probably be a while before any kind of softmod can be made, but it does seem likely to happen (also taking into account the other factors you mentioned)
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