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Three strikes law for internet piracy to be proposed in Britain
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The following comments relate to this news article:
article published on 12 February, 2008
It appears like British officials are looking to follow French President Nicolas Sarkozy's lead and consider putting illegal downloaders on warning with a "three strikes" law. The proposed law would result in a warning via email if suspected of illegally downloading movies or music, a temporary suspension of their internet service if a second violation is detected, and termination of their ... [ read the full article ]
Please read the original article before posting your comments.
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manrod
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12. February 2008 @ 02:23 |
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I hope to God this never happens, we're getting more and more Americanised by the day, but taking ideas from Frogs? GTFO.
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windsong
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12. February 2008 @ 02:26 |
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Well us Americans are not too fond of being 'Britain-ized" with cams everywhere either.
Pot to Kettle: You're Black!
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Newbie
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12. February 2008 @ 02:34 |
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Internet service providers will not do it because it will hurt their income.
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varnull
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12. February 2008 @ 02:45 |
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There is a problem with these proposals..
You can't punish somebody under UK law without actual PROOF that will stand up in court..an allegation by some media company isn't going to stand up very well when anybody with a small brain can spoof IP details and get a good solicitor to throw that in their faces.. The government are having enough of a rough ride at the moment over sleaze..this is really what they need.., and we do still have the right to freedom of communication, so how are they going to catch anybody?? entrapment??? and the British are not so "lay down and settle" as the Americans.. I hope they are ready to fill every court in the land from here too doomsday with petty "downloaded one song" cases. Everybody has the right to legal defence, and everybody has the right to legal representation.. I hope the government has extremely big pockets and lots of time to bolster the US media companies.. Last time the law got oppressive like this there was a huge riot that trashed central London.. and we won that one!! They seem to have forgotten that the British public WILL explode occasionally.
there is another huge problem.. a lot of UK subscribers have never ever used their isp provided email accounts.. because of fears of spying.. so just how do they propose to warn me? If they send me a printed letter I will just scrub all evidence from my hardware and tell them to see me in court as I will sue them for false accusations and use of illegal electronic surveillance methods.. hahahahaha
Hope they are ready for the kind of ass kicking they haven't had in a very long time.
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eiamhere
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12. February 2008 @ 04:01 |
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Very true. Sending an email is not proof of receipt. Although this statment protects the large companies, I wouldn't hold our breath now that the British government has shown publicly that they are corrupt/"sponsored" by these firms.
This country is a joke.
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Senior Member
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12. February 2008 @ 04:04 |
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They should put all there efforts on clapping down on the dodgy dealers at car boot sales not the average Joe who downloads a movie, MP3, now and again for personal use I?ve been to many a car boot sale where you?ve got severally stalls well you cant call them stalls usually a sheet of tarpaulin laid on the grass selling films, Xbox games, audio cd?s, makes you wonder how they get away with it another dodgy dealer they should channel they energy into is dodgy Dave down at the market stall makes you laugh.
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LeeFields
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12. February 2008 @ 04:15 |
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I think you are missing the point in this news article. Firstly, no one will ever see court unless it is an extreme case or the music associations use it as a route to do what has been happening in the states for the last 5 years. This is because the Gov doesn?t like putting laws in play that will cost them money to enforce. This brings up the 'voluntary' side for ISP's which would be seen as the best way forward for the Gov. They don?t have to spend money enforcing it and the mere threat that you could loose your connection is seen as a deterrent. The underlying issue though is enforcement and the data protection act, neither of which bode well for this type of law change. The UK Government is great at introducing new laws to get the headlines, but is extremely inept at enforcing them. I watch in interest, it could take over 2 years before this could reach the statute books.
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varnull
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12. February 2008 @ 04:50 |
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And in the meantime lots and lots of ISP's go bankrupt as we all move to the "darknet" of stolen wifi and direct satellite uplinks etc...
they always forget some of us were phreaking (stealing) international phoneline connections long before the internet existed, and as I have tested recently a lot of those old tricks still work admirably...
Plus nobody seems to be interested in all the old dialup accounts that are still floating around long abandoned by users and fully active.. hehehehe..
I'm not worried in the slightest about this proposed new law, because UK isp's are all trying to force people to use wireless hardware while not ensuring they know how to secure it.. Makes it real easy to steal somebodys 8mb connection and do all your piracy through that while staying totally removed from the scene of the crime.. that's without getting into remote shell trickery and grabbing yourself some of the botnet action with exploits ;)
They should leave well alone, otherwise they will create a far worse situation than they can imagine.. I know how to install the hardware and buy satellite uptime/bandwidth which I can sell cheaply, effectively and totally unmonitored to my neighbours.. Ever wanted to be an unlicensed darknet ISP??
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nobrainer
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12. February 2008 @ 05:59 |
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Lovely, deep packet inspection ahoy, and its all about piracy, paedophiles and terrorists isn't it, the new world order.
its an excuse to spy on the mass populous as it is easily circumvented by ppl that know how and will soon be common knowledge driving downloading further underground and creating thousands more dark nets and such like.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. February 2008 @ 06:05
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tomkinson
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12. February 2008 @ 06:28 |
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Can't people just block their usage information through PeerGuardian? Don't programs like Azureus just block usage stats anyway? Could we get round something like this this way? Too many questions??!?!
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AfterDawn Addict
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12. February 2008 @ 08:15 |
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Originally posted by area_51:
Internet service providers will not do it because it will hurt their income.
Hurt them how? They'd be banning people who use use up most of the bandwith.
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Moderator
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12. February 2008 @ 10:15 |
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*waits for first strike*
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varnull
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12. February 2008 @ 10:27 |
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Heres an intereting point..
It is illegal to attempt to crack/break encryption.. even to attempt to do so.. Correct??
So we all encrypt every packet sha-1 or similar.. then where do they stand in any case where the first thing they have done to spy on people is willfully and maliciously break that encryption.. catch 22
I still turn encryption on with p2p even though it's not coming through my connection.. to protect others.
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RichieTD
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12. February 2008 @ 12:58 |
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If this goes through then whats the point in having the data protection act?
I think it's wrong to punish users that can freely download material. If they want to do something about it then target the uploaders.
I also think that personally downloading content stops the pirates from profiteering to fund bigger criminal activity.
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hughjars
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12. February 2008 @ 13:47 |
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More lamely 'thought' out, unworkable King Canute BS.
Why not just tear up all our privacy & freedoms & oput us all in prison now, eh?
That'll completely ensure no-one ever deprives big business of all of our money, ever.
All hail the music, movie corps & the CE corps.
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hughjars
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12. February 2008 @ 13:48 |
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wow, multiple posts, sorry.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. February 2008 @ 13:49
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hughjars
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12. February 2008 @ 13:49 |
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wow, multiple posts, sorry.
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nobrainer
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12. February 2008 @ 14:00 |
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Originally posted by tomkinson:
Can't people just block their usage information through PeerGuardian? Don't programs like Azureus just block usage stats anyway? Could we get round something like this this way? Too many questions??!?!
peerguardian 2 blocks the known ip addresses of anti piracy groups and other organisations so they cannot connect to your pc so they cannot get screen captures of your shared files ect but they constantly use different IP's but any block is better than none. What the government want is ISP's to start deep packet inspections, spying on all traffic.
most bittorrent clients Azureus/uTorrent come with encryption turned on as default, and this is enough to bypass deep packet filtering to the files contained but it is still recognisable as p2p protocol and you could go a step further and use an encrypted tunnel (proxy) like the free tor network and simply direct all bittorrent traffic through the proxy server, or a vpn.
but this is about spying on the general public because they know encryption thwarts their efforts to view any pirated material, every email, every web page visited, every post onj a forum, every message in you msn messenger or any irc will be inspected and gathered using piracy as the scare tactic so there isn't a huge uproar from the general public, just as they use the fear of paedophiles to keep kids off the net and afraid of freedom of speech and the fear of terrorists to justify spying and torture!
ars has a article worth reading as it also points out that in the uk deep packet inspection is illegal because of UK data protection laws but hey its about time we lost our rights to privacy just as has happened in the usa so continues the uk's decent into a fascist police state.
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/200...come-to-uk.html
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. February 2008 @ 16:31
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Member
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12. February 2008 @ 14:28 |
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This will not work.
what about people using other peoples wireless network.
the owner will now get done.
you say"well make sure you put a password on".
most people dont know how to.
also the companies will lose a lot of money, so they wont be in a rush to cancel there broadband.
also this is a scare tactic , there only targing big pirates users not the person downloading 3 or 4 songs a week.
if they do target everyone , half of britain will have no internet.
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12. February 2008 @ 15:33 |
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I thought the Nazi's were destroyed in 1945? Damn I forgot, the communists are still alive. I have never ever read 1984 by George Orwell, but i have a jist of what the book is about. To me this is Big Brother watching what you do, when you do and how you do. they will want full logs of your internet history in times to come, just to see that you are not visiting any sights that may not be in the pubic interest.
This country is going down the toilet faster than a toilet duck on full flush. The MPAA, RIAA IFPI, BPI and all the rest need to wise the f**k up, revisit there business models and only then, when they are able to supply quality products at a price that may deter all but the most determined downloaders, can they start on this road of bulls**t.
Why the f**k would I want to pay £15 for a DVD? I can wait 3 months and it is then in the bargain bucket. Why not release the damn thing at the bargain bucket price, they would certainly sell a lot more and still turn a profit.
The same applies to music. 90% of the s**t that is in the "charts" is as musical as my arse after an Indian, so again, why would I want to even DL it, never mind pay for it. I still buy the music that I want to listen to, and pay to see live shows (where the bands make most of their money anyway).
Scare tactics do not work with me.
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Member
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12. February 2008 @ 16:06 |
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The person above is 100% right.
England going down the drain.
im hoping to move asap.
Having we got bigger problems..
Petrol has risen to over £1 per litre.
food up, raw materials up.
houses up.
china taking up everything.
also in the UK the speed is crap. i pay for 8MB download , i only get abour 1MB not even that.
so downloading one movie takes 8/9 hours , i have to leave it all night just to download one movie.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. February 2008 @ 16:11
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badkrma
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12. February 2008 @ 16:32 |
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and because it's free (to a point) and fun, companies and government want to take it away from us.... the net is the last real bastion of free speech and free sharing with a hint of attitude and our control freaks I mentioned can't stand that...
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Craftybox
Inactive
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12. February 2008 @ 16:36 |
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Do you close the internet to keep the libraries open?
No, times have moved on the sooner they accept it the easyier this be.
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Junior Member
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12. February 2008 @ 17:40 |
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Originally posted by Craftybox:
Do you close the internet to keep the libraries open?
No, times have moved on the sooner they accept it the easyier this be.
qft
i'm in the states, but this sort of thing going on in the uk and france gets me worried. more angry than worried, but makes me think the same thing could happen here at any time.
hopefully both of these plans will fail quickly and we won't have to worry about it over here. i say quickly because the plan stands no chance whatsoever of actually working.
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Efreedom
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12. February 2008 @ 18:53 |
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A Declaration of the Independence of Cyberspace
by John Perry Barlow <barlow-at-eff-dot-org>
Governments of the Industrial World, you weary giants of flesh and steel, I come from Cyberspace, the new home of Mind. On behalf of the future, I ask you of the past to leave us alone. You are not welcome among us. You have no sovereignty where we gather.
We have no elected government, nor are we likely to have one, so I address you with no greater authority than that with which liberty itself always speaks. I declare the global social space we are building to be naturally independent of the tyrannies you seek to impose on us. You have no moral right to rule us nor do you possess any methods of enforcement we have true reason to fear.
Governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed. You have neither solicited nor received ours. We did not invite you. You do not know us, nor do you know our world. Cyberspace does not lie within your borders. Do not think that you can build it, as though it were a public construction project. You cannot. It is an act of nature and it grows itself through our collective actions.
You have not engaged in our great and gathering conversation, nor did you create the wealth of our marketplaces. You do not know our culture, our ethics, or the unwritten codes that already provide our society more order than could be obtained by any of your impositions.
You claim there are problems among us that you need to solve. You use this claim as an excuse to invade our precincts. Many of these problems don't exist. Where there are real conflicts, where there are wrongs, we will identify them and address them by our means. We are forming our own Social Contract . This governance will arise according to the conditions of our world, not yours. Our world is different.
Cyberspace consists of transactions, relationships, and thought itself, arrayed like a standing wave in the web of our communications. Ours is a world that is both everywhere and nowhere, but it is not where bodies live.
We are creating a world that all may enter without privilege or prejudice accorded by race, economic power, military force, or station of birth.
We are creating a world where anyone, anywhere may express his or her beliefs, no matter how singular, without fear of being coerced into silence or conformity.
Your legal concepts of property, expression, identity, movement, and context do not apply to us. They are all based on matter, and there is no matter here.
Our identities have no bodies, so, unlike you, we cannot obtain order by physical coercion. We believe that from ethics, enlightened self-interest, and the commonweal, our governance will emerge . Our identities may be distributed across many of your jurisdictions. The only law that all our constituent cultures would generally recognize is the Golden Rule. We hope we will be able to build our particular solutions on that basis. But we cannot accept the solutions you are attempting to impose.
In the United States, you have today created a law, the Telecommunications Reform Act, which repudiates your own Constitution and insults the dreams of Jefferson, Washington, Mill, Madison, DeToqueville, and Brandeis. These dreams must now be born anew in us.
You are terrified of your own children, since they are natives in a world where you will always be immigrants. Because you fear them, you entrust your bureaucracies with the parental responsibilities you are too cowardly to confront yourselves. In our world, all the sentiments and expressions of humanity, from the debasing to the angelic, are parts of a seamless whole, the global conversation of bits. We cannot separate the air that chokes from the air upon which wings beat.
In China, Germany, France, Russia, Singapore, Italy and the United States, you are trying to ward off the virus of liberty by erecting guard posts at the frontiers of Cyberspace. These may keep out the contagion for a small time, but they will not work in a world that will soon be blanketed in bit-bearing media.
Your increasingly obsolete information industries would perpetuate themselves by proposing laws, in America and elsewhere, that claim to own speech itself throughout the world. These laws would declare ideas to be another industrial product, no more noble than pig iron. In our world, whatever the human mind may create can be reproduced and distributed infinitely at no cost. The global conveyance of thought no longer requires your factories to accomplish.
These increasingly hostile and colonial measures place us in the same position as those previous lovers of freedom and self-determination who had to reject the authorities of distant, uninformed powers. We must declare our virtual selves immune to your sovereignty, even as we continue to consent to your rule over our bodies. We will spread ourselves across the Planet so that no one can arrest our thoughts.
We will create a civilization of the Mind in Cyberspace. May it be more humane and fair than the world your governments have made before.
Davos, Switzerland
February 8, 1996
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