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Next-gen format war is officially over
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The following comments relate to this news article:
article published on 16 February, 2008
First reported by the Japanese public broadcaster NHK and later confirmed by Toshiba itself, the next-gen format war between HD DVD and Blu-ray is finally over, with Toshiba planning on stopping production of HD DVD players.
The battle, which has raged on for the last couple of years, has often been compared to the Betamax-VHS battle of the MID 1980's and has slowed down the development ... [ read the full article ]
Please read the original article before posting your comments.
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djeazyg
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16. February 2008 @ 18:23 |
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Nice to see hughjars loyal to the end. May your last paycheck be a large one. If I was you I would jump on the side for Digital Downloads next because that is where the future lies. And I would be willing to bet that reality is a lot closer than you think. Probably before Blu-Ray has a chance to become standard. The only thing slowing it down is Piracy. Too easy to steal a Digital Download. This will be fun to watch.
This was really over before it began. If Microsoft had included HD-DVD into the 360 Blu-Ray would have never stood a chance. Including Blu-Ray into the PS3 was the smartest move Sony could have made to win this battle. Also it will hopefully generate more interest to create exclusive games for the PS3.
You can cry.... Quote:
MPAA Pro DRM lobby backed, anti consumer laden blu-ray
all you want. You would be saying the same thing about HD-DVD if HD-DVD had won this battle. They would have just included it after the war was over. Anybody that thinks any different is a fool.
If I'm not mistaken this is the first format war Sony won? First out of 3 or 4 or whatever. Not a good track record but it makes me happy.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 16. February 2008 @ 18:24
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PetahG
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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16. February 2008 @ 18:56 |
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Originally posted by ZoSoIV:
the wrong format won again screw Sony!
Took the words out of my mouth
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pomelo
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1 product review
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16. February 2008 @ 19:24 |
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I hope Blu Ray does a combo pack like HD-DVD. You know Blu-Ray on one side the DVD version on the other side.
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error5
Senior Member
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16. February 2008 @ 19:31 |
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Toshiba have no one else to blame but themselves.
The BluRay group just outplayed and outwitted them throughout the game. They had the better strategy and made all the right moves at the right time.
A couple of factors that I see here were crucial:
1. The right industry connections.
You can argue about payoffs and bribes all day long but whether or not these happened is beside the point. The BluRay group reached out to the right studios and the right retailers. They did what it took to keep the right players on their side.
2. Marketing
The Toshiba "source" could not have said it any better:
Quote:
"Marketing was a weak point for Toshiba. We learned a lot from HD DVD. Strengthening marketing will continue to be an issue for us going forward," the source said.
http://www.reuters.com/article/businessN...ndChannel=10010
Business and management students will study the events of the format war and will learn a lesson on how not to lose with a superior product.
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robmill
Junior Member
1 product review
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16. February 2008 @ 19:35 |
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Format wars, when will these companies learn, WHY CANT WE ALL JUST LEARN HOW TO GET ALONG.
Beta/VHS Winner VHS
CD replaced Cassette so its not a format war
CD/MD Winner CD Sony should have released MD sooner
SACD/DVD-A Tie
BlueRay/HDDVD Winner BlueRay
I am rather happy about whats happening. The Toshiba Players are great players which up convert nicely at a good price, 130 is not a lot to spend on a player with the capabilites it has, as a matter of fact, we just bought two more after this announcement.
This may sound weird, but has anybody thought of this as the reason for BlueRay coming up the winner.
BLUERAY - just sounds so cool, We have DVDs and Toshiba releases something called HD-DVD, hohum, but BLUERAY, sounds impressive, and from a marketing standpoint it makes sense.
Think of it, VHS versus Beta, no one had any idea what VHS was, Sony had this format called Beta, isn't Beta the SECOND letter, Alpha Beta etc etc,,,,,,,,,so does that mean Beta was second to VHS. Lets face it Beta was the better format, smaller, better picture quality, better sound quality.
CD was light years ahead of Cassette, DIGITAL, but then Sony releases MD, which really exactly what it is MINI DISC, and its in its own little case, smaller, protected, now we have HDMD 1gb discs, for those of us still using the format, WOW, 1 gb of music on a 3 dollar disc.
No point just rambling thoughts.
Like I have always said, unless the general public can buy it at Walmart or KMart it won't be anything more than a niche.
Robert
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pomelo
Newbie
1 product review
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16. February 2008 @ 19:41 |
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I brought a HD-DVD in Dec. and still haven't got my 7 fre movies yet. I got a total of 13 HD-DVD movies if I get the 7 free one's I'll have 20.
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redux79
Member
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16. February 2008 @ 19:43 |
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Well at least now we can all stop bickering over what?s better and why. I myself made several posts defending my position and questioning others... which inevitably lead nowhere. Blu-ray won so now maybe we can all come together and discuss a common enemy BD+.
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hughjars
Suspended permanently
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16. February 2008 @ 19:48 |
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Originally posted by pomelo:
I hope Blu Ray does a combo pack like HD-DVD. You know Blu-Ray on one side the DVD version on the other side.
- This is just another missing piece of the puzzle Blu-ray can never have.
They have no rights to DVD & so they can't release their own version of the Twin disc or combo disc with anything 'DVD'.
There is no technical obstacle for them doing this but -
unless the BDA paid off the DVD Forum a stunningly vast amount of money - they cannot.
IIRC they have developed prototypes but can't do anything with the tech.
This is due to - get the irony of this - the ownership & intellectual property rights to DVD that the DVD Forum holds!
I have no doubt that the BDA would love to be able to do this
(cos it is a huge key part of the high def formats going mass-market IMO)
but after the stunts they just pulled on the DVD Forium's baby (HD DVD) I think it's much more likely we'll all live to see hell freezing over 1st.
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domie
Member
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16. February 2008 @ 20:16 |
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Quote:
Originally posted by pomelo:
I hope Blu Ray does a combo pack like HD-DVD. You know Blu-Ray on one side the DVD version on the other side.
but after the stunts they just pulled on the DVD Forium's baby (HD DVD) I think it's much more likely we'll all live to see hell freezing over 1st.
what you say is true but I really can't see the DVD Forum cutting off their own nose to spit their face just because Blu Ray was chosen over their own HD-DVD baby. it seems unlikely they will let childish pride stop them from joining up with blu ray to expand their profit making potential... money talks.
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error5
Senior Member
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16. February 2008 @ 20:23 |
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Originally posted by pomelo:
I hope Blu Ray does a combo pack like HD-DVD. You know Blu-Ray on one side the DVD version on the other side.
Combo releases have a tendency of bringing out the worst in my HD DVD players - skipping, stuttering and other more severe playback problems requiring firmware updates. I'd rather not have the same experience on BluRay.
Instead of a combo I prefer a "digital copy" like what they have on the upcoming BluRay release of Hitman:
http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/news/sho...gital_Copy/1395
The second disc contains a standard def digital copy of the movie that you can play in your PC, laptop, iPod or iPhone.
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Senior Member
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16. February 2008 @ 20:32 |
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too many times i read posts stating "sony + format = failure, etc"
people never fully understood the strategic implementation of what has become the "playstation effect."
people can continue to complain and make absurd comments about the format being that of a gaming niche, but unfortunately those comments come from individuals who have consistently made FALSE assumptions/predictions. a person having substantial knowledge on a particular subject does not necessarily mean that said person is intelligent. the DOTS never quite lined up for some. oh well.
The "cheap" chinese players never came, there was no HUGE ANNOUNCEMENT at CES for HD-DVD, the constant price drops did little, the Disney vote (again did nothing), the 51gg disc never factored into anything, the proclaimed SuperBowl AD was MIA in different areas (also nothing worthy but w/e) and the list goes on.
im sorry but for those who still think blu-ray will be a gamers format are simply in denial. Warner/Disney/Fox/Sony/LionsGate/Pioneer/ ETC. all feel the format is something MORE than just a niche product, but hey lets take JOE BLOWs ASSumptions instead. hahaha.
argue all you want but the writing is on the wall and it sure doesn't spell out the crap that is going around on here.
Toshiba will make a very nice Blu-ray player.
relax, take a few deep breaths and come back to reality. no one really wants to call the WAMBULANCE. its OVER.
it'll be interesting to see how many people jump on the downloads bandwagon.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 16. February 2008 @ 20:35
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casemodd
Newbie
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16. February 2008 @ 20:37 |
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Does this mean the movie "Transformers" will finally come out on bluray?
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Senior Member
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16. February 2008 @ 20:48 |
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Originally posted by casemodd:
Does this mean the movie "Transformers" will finally come out on bluray?
there are already reports of a CircuitCity employee leak about Transformers on Blu-ray. nothing is OFFICIAL YET, but i feel pretty confident in saying Transformers will be out on Blu
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casemodd
Newbie
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16. February 2008 @ 20:58 |
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That would really be great :) Looks like i will wait for the profile 2.0 for bluray. I don't want my new shiny blu disks being bricked.
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Senior Member
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16. February 2008 @ 21:12 |
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Mark my words: We will all rue this day! When BR+ is fully implemented and we can no longer back-up, copy, or steal these movies (whatever context you want to put it in) we will be very disappointed! I certainly am.
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Member
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16. February 2008 @ 21:50 |
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Quote:
hughjars
edited...do it again and take a break from AD
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 16. February 2008 @ 23:05
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Member
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16. February 2008 @ 22:14 |
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Quote:
hughjars
Btw... Bow to your master(sony)!!!
You where warned ~ Oner
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 17. February 2008 @ 01:42
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Newbie
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16. February 2008 @ 22:17 |
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LMAO hurrah for sony and the ps3 fanboys . So now I have to buy yet 1 more device for the stack . But at no TIME will I BUY a thing That says SONY on the LABEL .
After Their VP Said that copying my store bought cd to my computer
was stealing . i vote with my wallet and sony gets nothing.
BTW I am a 46 y.o. adult , the first game system i ever bought was pong. The first Computer system i ever used was a keyboard with a built in modem . I have seen the changes in the digital world from the beginning of the age to the present.
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Member
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16. February 2008 @ 22:48 |
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Originally posted by ChiknLitl:
Mark my words: We will all rue this day! When BR+ is fully implemented and we can no longer back-up, copy, or steal these movies (whatever context you want to put it in) we will be very disappointed! I certainly am.
What possible need do you have to backup a BD disc now? With the protective coating that comes on BD.There isn't any need to back them up.Plus disc owner's need to be more responsible taking care of there disc.
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Newbie
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16. February 2008 @ 23:02 |
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gee how silly of me to want to be able to back up my own property.
i must remember that if i let the dogs eat the disc , then i must run out and give sony more money
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Moderator
16 product reviews
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16. February 2008 @ 23:12 |
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dela:
Consumers lost!
They lost by choosing and expressing their preference ?
No matter how many claims, counterclaims, arguments, rumours of insider deals etc , at the end of the day - from Warner to Netflix to Target to Wal-Mart, all clearly stated ( and could prove it with sales figures ) that they went for blu ray because that is what the majority of the people buyng these discs wanted. Even in the states more blu ray discs were sold than HD-DVD despite the price of hardware and number of HD_DVD machines shifted. 81 % of all High Def discs sold in Europe have been blu ray since the beginning and it is over 90 % in Japan and Asia.
I think what you mean to say is that HD-DVD supporters lost, if they didn't sell enough discs to keep the retailers interested whose fault is that ?
If the consumer lost then the consumer chose to lose and that doesn't make sense to me and neither do I believe it.
Excellent post. Sorry Dela ;), I happen to agree as I have thought about it that way for the longest too.
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Moderator
16 product reviews
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16. February 2008 @ 23:19 |
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Originally posted by ZoSoIV:
the wrong format won again screw Sony!
If you are referring to Beta vs VHS and VHS winning being the wrong format, you are contradicting yourself. You do realize that Sony backed Beta and if the wrong format won this time around that means by your words Sony should have won both times around.
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error5
Senior Member
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16. February 2008 @ 23:24 |
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Originally posted by carp624:
But at no TIME will I BUY a thing That says SONY on the LABEL .
How about a Panasonic or a Denon? Or even a Pioneer, Sharp, Philips, and Harman Kardon?
The Panasonic DMP-BD30 1.1 profile model is, for me the best bang for the buck BD player right now. However, the upcoming Panasonic DMP-BD50 2.0 model is what I'm on the lookout for.
If you have the funds though, the Denons or the Pioneer Elite are very attractive.
There is even a possibility that Toshiba will be manufacturing a BluRay player in the future. I mean they should seriously consider making one if they don't want to be left behind especially in the Japanese market.
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gee how silly of me to want to be able to back up my own property.i must remember that if i let the dogs eat the disc , then i must run out and give sony more money
Consider first the price of a BluRay burner. The cheapest I have seen so far is the $350 Lite On from newegg. There may be cheaper ones but they are still nowhere near regular DVD burner prices.
Consider also the price of blank media. A dual layer 50Gig BD recordable blank disc is $25 - $30. It's cheaper at this point in time to just get a new copy of the movie.
...and I assume you were kidding when you said you let your dog play with your high def media right?
Just some friendly suggestions.
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viny1313
Newbie
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16. February 2008 @ 23:27 |
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Quote:
Quote:
Originally posted by Dela:
Consumers lost!
They lost by choosing and expressing their preference ?
No matter how many claims, counterclaims, arguments, rumours of insider deals etc , at the end of the day - from Warner to Netflix to Target to Wal-Mart, all clearly stated ( and could prove it with sales figures ) that they went for blu ray because that is what the majority of the people buyng these discs wanted. Even in the states more blu ray discs were sold than HD-DVD despite the price of hardware and number of HD_DVD machines shifted. 81 % of all High Def discs sold in Europe have been blu ray since the beginning and it is over 90 % in Japan and Asia.
I think what you mean to say is that HD-DVD supporters lost, if they didn't sell enough discs to keep the retailers interested whose fault is that ?
If the consumer lost then the consumer chose to lose and that doesn't make sense to me and neither do I believe it.
Excellent post. Sorry Dela ;), I happen to agree as I have thought about it that way for the longest too.
I too agree and have always... It's not like Sony forced people to buy their format... That's completely impossible seeing that my money is not theirs and I can do whatever I want with it. They can influence the decision, but they can't make it for you.Maybe if HD-DVD were to make at least 1 ad then hey might have lived... Kinda stupid of them... Their marketing campaign was worse then the PS3's, and I only say that because at least it had commercials (even though they were really weird).
Sorry, I had to post something, I couldn't wait any longer :(
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CaLiMaCk
Junior Member
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17. February 2008 @ 00:09 |
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hughjars better find a new job. its been a rough year buddy, but in the end you and your bosses lost, i would say GG but you were fighting a losing fight from the jump lol!
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