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Virgin Media gives pirates three strikes and your out alternative
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The following comments relate to this news article:
article published on 31 March, 2008
After last month's "three strikes and you're off the Internet" announcement in the UK was made official, it seems the large ISP Virgin Media will be the first to implement the plan.
Although record labels have been pushing for a plan like this for years, it is not even known yet whether the actual measures are legal. The government is expected to have a meeting on that very subject sometime ... [ read the full article ]
Please read the original article before posting your comments.
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Senior Member
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31. March 2008 @ 16:04 |
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why would anyone join this voluntarily?
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AfterDawn Addict
3 product reviews
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31. March 2008 @ 16:14 |
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Wonder how many personal rights and privacy laws they can bend to achieve this?
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Junior Member
3 product reviews
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31. March 2008 @ 17:01 |
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Well at least they're fair and warn if you've been spotted. Of course Virgin joined cause it has a quite large record label.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 31. March 2008 @ 17:02
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AfterDawn Addict
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31. March 2008 @ 17:30 |
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I live in the US.
Q1) What happened to habeas corpus ( trial and judgement of guilt prior to punishment)
Q2) If any of the media companies have been found guilty of some sort of wrong doing 3 times, should they be banned from selling goods and services forever? Tit for tat and equality of law.
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Senior Member
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31. March 2008 @ 17:58 |
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@iluvendo, this is in the UK, not the US so this shouldn't effect you. I believe this is only effective in the UK.
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domie
Member
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31. March 2008 @ 18:12 |
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it is only applicable in the UK - they are my ISP - used to be called telewest then blueyonder then they merged with ntl and were then bought by Virgin - they are cable operators offering phone tv and internet - they actully have the fastest available download speed in the UK with 20 mb connections and no limits so i suppose they are natural first targets for the authorities.
of course it all depends on how many people are dumb enough to still use p2p programs where you can be tracked and caught with your IP details trousers down around your ankles.
hasn't everyone with 2 brain cells switched to encrypted newz servers by now ?
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Senior Member
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31. March 2008 @ 18:56 |
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This will probably work until Virgin Media loses too many customers. Imagine if all of their customers were to get booted, sure Virgin wouldn't have to worry about any more pirates, but they wouldn't have to worry about running an ISP any more either. Obviously this is extreme and wouldn't happen, but at what point does disconnecting customers start to hurt their business?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 31. March 2008 @ 18:58
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domie
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31. March 2008 @ 19:42 |
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I think all ISPs know that if they crack down on downloading hey will lose over half their customers
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 31. March 2008 @ 19:46
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AfterDawn Addict
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31. March 2008 @ 19:53 |
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Originally posted by Pop_Smith:
@iluvendo, this is in the UK, not the US so this shouldn't effect you. I believe this is only effective in the UK.
Sounds like the beginnings of totalitarianism to me!
"The flimsier the product,the higher the price"
Ferengi 82nd rule of aqusition
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varnull
Suspended permanently
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31. March 2008 @ 19:54 |
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Virgin suck.. they have already broken their contract with me. If they accuse me of anything they better have damn good lawyers and very very solid proof..
I wouldn't go anywhere near the news servers in this locality after a child porn ring was busted using the newsgroups. 30 pedophiles caught all downloading and sharing over newsgroups within 20 miles of here.. and they are safe these newsgroups eh? BS.. the packets still go to your IP and it is easier to pick them out due to the "one at a time" nature of the traffic... How do you know you aren't downloading direct from the content provider anyways? at least on the huge public trackers you have the "safety in numbers" defence that animals have used for millions of years to confuse enemies. On a tracker they have to unequivocally PROVE that something came to my IP and not to something that was spoofed.
This attempted new law is totalitarism, and it signifies the end of the last vestiges of freedom of speech, action or movement in the UK.. which is not a democracy anyway. We have less freedoms now than were in evidence in East Germany when I visited there in the mid 80's
Remember a society that removes freedoms and rights in the name of so called security deserves neither. I would lend my support to any organisation which was planning to overthrow the corrupt system in the UK.. by fair means or foul. I'm going to say that openly now.. while I still can, because when this law IS passed (we the people have no say.. we are not represented) I will not be able to express my dislike of the state, or my desire to see it's ending and replacement with something truly democratic and fair.
I have a big list saved over time of lots of virgin/ntl/blueyonder upstream machines IP's. It's quite easy to organise a rDDos attack using the isp's own machines to dos the others. Wait and see.. Russia and China had a go at each other last weekend using just these tactics. The infrastructure virgin are relying on is mostly antiquated 10+ year old cable tv switching network hardware. It is just soooo easy to take down.
Today it turns up that they are ILLEGALLY blocking certain websites. This is directly breaking the UK freedom of information laws. The three strikes law hasn't been passed yet, it is still in the green paper "consultation" stage where the public DO NOT have the right to see what they are planing. There is a revolution coming, with the invasions of privacy in this surveillance state we have allowed them to create.
Vive la Revolution.. It is coming and it will smash this corrupt system for all time.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 31. March 2008 @ 20:12
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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31. March 2008 @ 19:59 |
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Evil exists only when good people do nothing.
"The flimsier the product,the higher the price"
Ferengi 82nd rule of aqusition
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Member
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31. March 2008 @ 22:27 |
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Originally posted by domie:
I think all ISPs know that if they crack down on downloading hey will lose over half their customers
It's true they will lose customers, but what happens when it become Mandatory for ever ISP to crack down. Sooner or later the government will make it a rule to monitor and report illegal downloading. This is the country where all the popular music and movies are made. No one cares about illegally downloading Bosnian music, etc. It's all about the big moneymakers.
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B33rdrnkr
Newbie
2 product reviews
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31. March 2008 @ 23:32 |
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Originally posted by domie:
I think all ISPs know that if they crack down on downloading hey will lose over half their customers
But they will be saving on bandwidth used..
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FreqNasty
Newbie
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31. March 2008 @ 23:34 |
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Why doesn't the train wreck that the UK is do something useful like stopping all the illegal immigrants coming in. You wonder why you have such have high taxes there? All those immigrants get spoon fed with welfare, health care, housing.
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B33rdrnkr
Newbie
2 product reviews
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31. March 2008 @ 23:36 |
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Originally posted by varnull:
Virgin suck.. they have already broken their contract with me. If they accuse me of anything they better have damn good lawyers and very very solid proof..
I wouldn't go anywhere near the news servers in this locality after a child porn ring was busted using the newsgroups. 30 pedophiles caught all downloading and sharing over newsgroups within 20 miles of here.. and they are safe these newsgroups eh? BS.. the packets still go to your IP and it is easier to pick them out due to the "one at a time" nature of the traffic... How do you know you aren't downloading direct from the content provider anyways? at least on the huge public trackers you have the "safety in numbers" defence that animals have used for millions of years to confuse enemies. On a tracker they have to unequivocally PROVE that something came to my IP and not to something that was spoofed.
This attempted new law is totalitarism, and it signifies the end of the last vestiges of freedom of speech, action or movement in the UK.. which is not a democracy anyway. We have less freedoms now than were in evidence in East Germany when I visited there in the mid 80's
Remember a society that removes freedoms and rights in the name of so called security deserves neither. I would lend my support to any organisation which was planning to overthrow the corrupt system in the UK.. by fair means or foul. I'm going to say that openly now.. while I still can, because when this law IS passed (we the people have no say.. we are not represented) I will not be able to express my dislike of the state, or my desire to see it's ending and replacement with something truly democratic and fair.
I have a big list saved over time of lots of virgin/ntl/blueyonder upstream machines IP's. It's quite easy to organise a rDDos attack using the isp's own machines to dos the others. Wait and see.. Russia and China had a go at each other last weekend using just these tactics. The infrastructure virgin are relying on is mostly antiquated 10+ year old cable tv switching network hardware. It is just soooo easy to take down.
Today it turns up that they are ILLEGALLY blocking certain websites. This is directly breaking the UK freedom of information laws. The three strikes law hasn't been passed yet, it is still in the green paper "consultation" stage where the public DO NOT have the right to see what they are planing. There is a revolution coming, with the invasions of privacy in this surveillance state we have allowed them to create.
Vive la Revolution.. It is coming and it will smash this corrupt system for all time.
makes me think of the movie "V for Vendetta"
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Senior Member
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31. March 2008 @ 23:41 |
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Originally posted by domie:
I think all ISPs know that if they crack down on downloading hey will lose over half their customers
They tried to pull shit like this in canada.. Privacy laws stopped them :).
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nobrainer
Suspended permanently
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1. April 2008 @ 00:18 |
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Originally posted by krj15489:
why would anyone join this voluntarily?
because bandwidth cost money and virgin are one the the isp's that say you can purchase our product but don't use the bandwidth.
virgin on are one of the worst uk isp's throttling all p2p traffic. they are comparable to pipex(tiscali) tiscali and eclipse internet (tiscali network)
http://www.thinkbroadband.com/isp/compar...&commit=Compare
@ iluvendo
we lost our right to habeas corpus under new terrorism laws
http://video.google.co.uk/url?docid=-335...hXoEGld6d7_8Ing
@ domie
virgin are not the fastest isp (click top link) and fall into the list of the worst performing isp in the uk, many isp's including BE unlimited and o2 that offer upto 24mbps with NO p2p traffic management but this may be about to change if virgin ever get their act together with the rumoured 40mbps service.
There may be one redeeming factor for virgin:
Originally posted by above hyperlink:
However, all might not be lost for the file-sharer at Virgin Media, especially those who want to max-out their new bandwidth offering. The ISP will be rolling out a new newsgroup service for its subscribers which should be ready in the next couple of months. Using the Highwinds server banks, the service will offer 7 days retention on the all important binary newsgroups. A Virgin spokesman said: ?We?re delighted to be working with Highwinds to build out our newsgroup service. Our expanded access to newsgroups will give our customers a free news feed to newsgroups with exceptional retention, providing one of the best free newsgroup services in the UK.?
Not to mention super high speed access to all the movies, music and software anyone could ever need, with no fear that the BPI, RIAA or IFPI can snoop on the transfers.
The Newsgroups Intro (Slyck Guide)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. April 2008 @ 01:04
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Senior Member
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1. April 2008 @ 01:23 |
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im not an expert on this, but i thought thats why tor was created. to protect u from prying eyes.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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1. April 2008 @ 03:16 |
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Originally posted by iluvendo:
I live in the US.
Q1) What happened to habeas corpus ( trial and judgement of guilt prior to punishment)
Q2) If any of the media companies have been found guilty of some sort of wrong doing 3 times, should they be banned from selling goods and services forever? Tit for tat and equality of law.
Patriot act took away habeas corpus, ah aint it grand what the government is doing to protect us from the unseen?
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Member
1 product review
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1. April 2008 @ 04:27 |
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I've been with Virgin Media now for a number of years (since July 2003, back when it was Blueyonder/Virgin Media) and never had an issue with it. It's a good job we are moving house soon to an area without cable (well maybe not, our ADSL networks are very busy and slow).
Anyone in the UK reccomend a good ISP that offers good speeds and uses ADSL2+. I was looking at https://www.bethere.co.uk/
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cd250481
Junior Member
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1. April 2008 @ 05:20 |
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Originally posted by FreqNasty:
Why doesn't the train wreck that the UK is do something useful like stopping all the illegal immigrants coming in. You wonder why you have such have high taxes there? All those immigrants get spoon fed with welfare, health care, housing.
Why words exactly!!
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Senior Member
5 product reviews
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1. April 2008 @ 07:22 |
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The way this works doesn't violate any privacy laws at all. I have already received one of these warnings. I live in Australia though, so this 3 strike policy isn't enforced at this point. However, the warning I got stated that if I continued to download such media, my account may be closed.
The copyright enforcement groups can identify what IP address is downloading their intellectual property through a tracker, from there they submit a report to your internet provider. Your internet provider then forwards on the warning and if your ISP is co-operative enough with the 3 strike rule then they may cancel your account.
This method breaks no privacy laws at all. If your ISP handed over your details, now that would be a different matter altogether. Let's hope that they never obtain the rights to do such things.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. April 2008 @ 09:26
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DjDanio
Newbie
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1. April 2008 @ 08:57 |
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People who say that newsgroups are safe etc etc are so gullible.
Nearly as gullible as those music/movie execs who are told that their DRM will stop people copying their work.
If some hacker can get past their millions of pounds worth of drm, why can't they find a way to track down these so called untraceable file sharers.
Also, as far as i am aware virgin media is not linked to virgin records. It was sold off years ago to EMI.
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xempler
Newbie
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1. April 2008 @ 09:53 |
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Hey I have a better idea. Why not just let the music industry surgically implant a chip in our bodies and track everything we do.
I mean we pretty much allow them to do anything they want these days anyways.
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windsong
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1. April 2008 @ 14:30 |
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Originally posted by varnull:
Virgin suck.. they have already broken their contract with me. If they accuse me of anything they better have damn good lawyers and very very solid proof..
I wouldn't go anywhere near the news servers in this locality after a child porn ring was busted using the newsgroups. 30 pedophiles caught all downloading and sharing over newsgroups within 20 miles of here.. and they are safe these newsgroups eh? BS..
Actually nothing was posted out in the open. With that particular group (45 members) they were exchanging material via PGP and had to do timed tests (identifying cp) to get into the private trading group. There was some heated discussion in alt.privacy about it. I dont have any pity for those guys..but I bet that in 5 yrs you'll see "mp3" busts, or "iso" busts all the same.
http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2007/s2181361.htm
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