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BACKUPS on LIVE and getting BANNED
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AfterDawn Addict
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4. April 2008 @ 15:47 |
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Hey guys, there have been quite a few threads lately asking the general question, "Will playing my 360/Xbox 1 backups on LIVE get me banned?". So I figured I'd make an easy to understand thread which explains that, yes, the chances are great that you will get banned using your backups on LIVE.
Now, lets get this out of the way first... yes, there is a ton of people playing on LIVE with backups every day. You'll hear people tell you to not worry about it, it's safe, MS is too stupid to catch us, yada yada yada. These are also the same people who, once they do get banned, will rant on saying it's not fair, MS just screwed me over, I'll teach MS a lesson and cancel my LIVE subscription, etc. Just know, you have no one to blame but yourself if you get caught. Be a man and accept it.
So, with that out of the way, lets move on. None of us here know exactly how MS works with their detection. Some say they can detect the backup and some say they can detect the firmware. It's my opinion that it seems more likely that, as it stands right now, they can only detect the backup. It just makes more sence... if MS could detect the firmware, then everyone who's using modded firmware would already be banned.
Alright, let's talk about backups. It is impossible to have a perfect backup of your original. This is because the security information, seen as a bar code in the picture below, can be copied BUT CAN NOT be burnt to that same location on recordable media. When a backup is made, what happens is that the security information will be moved to a different location on the backup. And on a side note... how your modified firmware works is it'll read the inner hub of the disc, and if it doesn't find the info there, it'll check the other location on the disc. Once it finds the info, it'll boot the game. Pretty simple, huh?
And I've seen it asked before... no, you can't buy recordable media which already has the bar code.
As for making backups, there are two ways. You can make your own or download them. Either way has the potential of ending up with a bad backup. While this backup may still play in your 360, it may also set off a flag at MS. And if you set off enough flags, MS will ban you.
The most popular way of making your own backups is to use a specific Samsung pc drive which has been flashed with Kreon firmware. But it has been found that using the Samsung/Kreon combo will, on occasion, make a bad backup. I won't go into detail about that, as there's already a pretty good thread about it. http://forums.xbox-scene.com/index.php?showtopic=633097 .
The best drive to use is a Samsung drive out of a 360 and flash it with the 0800 firmware. When this drive is flashed, it can be used with all the popular ripping programs. This is the safest (but never guaranteed) drive to make your backups with.
It is also possible to have a backup you made yourself to be missing some of the security information. And if you're running older firmware, your 360 will allow this backup to play. If your backup is missing info, for example we'll say the pfi, MS can detect it and you will get banned. Some people will try to repair a backup which is missing info by downloading that missing info, patching the iso, then reburning the game.
The problem with that is there are many different versions of what you may be missing. Again, we'll say you're missing the pfi. So you go on the web, download it and insert it in your iso. You then use one of your ripping programs to verify if the iso is now stealth. Your program will say it is stealth, but the fact is MS may be able to determine that the pfi doesn't match up with the other security info.
Your best option is to rerip your original with the latest ripping program. But... you're still not guaranteed to not get banned.
And you guys that have Xbox 1 backups which you made with your Xbox... forget it. They won't work. They are missing the necessary security info needed to work with the newest firmware.
As for downloading... well, you're just asking to be banned. Other than the fact that, even if you own the original, it is illegal to download a game, you don't know what kind of a hack job the person did ripping the game. You can have missing or mismatched info. It's also a possibility that some games are released with specific info which MS may use to ban people with.
You could download a region free game which may have been ripped in another region other than where you are. While it is region free, MS may see from the dmi/pfi that it doesn't belong where it's being played from. And that may set off a flag. Yes, you may have easily ordered an original, region free game from an international site and it's that original which you are playing. And there's nothing wrong with that. MS surely won't ban you solely based on what region your games are coming from, but it'd be easy to assume that it will set off a flag and they will take notice.
And the more flags you set off with MS, the quicker they ban you.
So... think you may have been banned and you're wondering how you can tell? I've included some pictures for you to follow.
The easiest way to know is when you try to log on and you get the "XboxLIVE Failed" error. You'll get a "W", "X", "Y", and "Z" status codes. The code you want to look at is the "Z" code. If it reads "8015 - 190D" then you're banned.
And if you don't believe you're banned, then you can check for yourself.
First, scroll over to your "System" tab and select "Network Settings".
Second, select "Test Xbox LIVE Connection".
Next, run the test and when it gets to "XBOXLIVE" it'll say "Failed". So select "More Info" (these pics are of my connection, and I'm not banned, so they will be a little different).
Finally, you'll get the Banned Welcome screen (this pic is not mine, it was uploaded to X-S).
Alright, so let's sum this all up. In a nutshell, even if you are using the newest firmware and ripping from an original with the latest programs, you're still not guaranteed to be safe on LIVE. PERIOD.
You want a guarantee... there is one and ONLY one. Get a second console, leave it unmodded, and use it to play your originals online.
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Senior Member
1 product review
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4. April 2008 @ 16:14 |
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Yes i agree playing backup on LIVE is stupid, you will get banned eventually. But the bar-code on the disc isn't security information, it's just a bar code with information about the pressing of the disc. 1 layer disc has 1 bar code and double layer has 2 bar codes. (How to tell if a pressed disc is DL). It's also on any pressed DVD not just xbox games.
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AfterDawn Addict
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4. April 2008 @ 16:27 |
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Right, it has the dmi and pfi info. That's why I didn't say "ss" and just left it at "security info".
I didn't want to get too technical so the thread wouldn't stray off on to "what is this and what does it do?". I figured, seeing how the dmi and pfi are part of the security needed for a game to be as stealth as it can be, I'd just simply say "security info" and leave it at that.
I just wanted the focus to be on the inner part of the hub which has important info and can't be burnt to on recordable media.
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Moderator
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4. April 2008 @ 16:45 |
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Great & well written post bhetrick!!
Stickied
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Moderator
1 product review
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5. April 2008 @ 01:36 |
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Excellent thread bhetrick, keep up the good work.
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jd254
Newbie
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6. April 2008 @ 04:37 |
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wow, that answered every single question I had about 360 modding and live. But just I'm clear with no misunderstanding, the following is true:
As of today, April 6, 2008, there is no way to play a backup on LIVE without the possibility of getting banned, but if you have the original, you can play on your modded xbox 360, with no chance of getting banned. The only time you should play a backup is when you aren't on LIVE.
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AfterDawn Addict
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6. April 2008 @ 10:17 |
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Originally posted by jd254:
As of today, April 6, 2008, there is no way to play a backup on LIVE without the possibility of getting banned,
Correct. There is no way to play without the possibility of being detected.
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but if you have the original, you can play on your modded xbox 360, with no chance of getting banned. The only time you should play a backup is when you aren't on LIVE.
Well, we can't say "no chance". When you use an original, the modded firmware works just like the original. It is believed by C4E, Opa, and some others (these guys developed the modded firmware, so they'd know best) that MS is not able to read the drive firmware due to how the hardware was developed.
And that seems pretty feasible. If they could detect the firmware, everyone would be banned. But then again, no one knows what MS is working on now towards future detection.
So as it stands, if you have only one console and it has modded firmware, your safest way to play on LIVE is to use your originals.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. April 2009 @ 13:39
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donrafa7
Newbie
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6. April 2008 @ 11:43 |
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Is it safe to only play backups offline and originals online with a modded firmware. I will usually turn off modem when playing backups offline
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baron1804
Newbie
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7. April 2008 @ 00:06 |
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if u burn the games right then youll be right... you have to burn the games with the security info and data and the same place as the original..
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AfterDawn Addict
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7. April 2008 @ 09:14 |
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But that's the point of this thread. You CAN NOT burn the necessary info in the same place as the original.
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baron1804
Newbie
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7. April 2008 @ 12:33 |
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are u sure why not...im pretty sure u can
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dave_a
Junior Member
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8. April 2008 @ 15:56 |
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i got banned and i never lpayed backups on live, i think its because when i was playing my back ups i was still signed into live, would this still ban me?
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AfterDawn Addict
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8. April 2008 @ 16:05 |
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Originally posted by baron1804:
are u sure why not...im pretty sure u can
I'm 100% positive. The very first picture in the very first post and the paragraph above that picture explained why a perfect backup can never be made. If we could make a perfect back, there would be no need for any type of mod in order to play backups.
Originally posted by dave_a:
i got banned and i never lpayed backups on live, i think its because when i was playing my back ups i was still signed into live, would this still ban me?
Yes it would. It doesn't matter if your gamertag is logged on to LIVE or not. As long as that network cable is plugged in, info gets transfered to MS.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. April 2008 @ 16:08
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Senior Member
3 product reviews
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8. April 2008 @ 18:40 |
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figured i'd contribute here but first things first
bhetrick great post on the security info on the disc and all that. I never attempted to flash the firmware but i have had like 6 xbox 360's. I will pass your thread around to different people that don't know how dangerous playing backups can be.
Anyway...
Two of my xbox 360's were stolen, not having the serial number i called up microsoft, talked to some lower customer service rep then the supervisor. The supervisor asked me for the date i owned this 360. After i told him he gave me my serial number. He said that everytime you log in with xbox live it records all your data stored on the bios of the 360. I can only imagine what it contains, i would guess firmware version, serial number, any stored error codes, dash version.
Right now there's no possible way to cheat the system. When the 360's dash can be replaced like the first xbox then it will be worth it. As for now don't take your chances, don't cross your fingers and pray. It's better to have a stock 360 then a modded one at this point in time.
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Member
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12. April 2008 @ 19:22 |
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There's nothing in this threat about the threat other than "OOoOOOOOo you might get banned," and yet everyone already seems to know this.
I mean hell, everyone I know who plays with backups have yet to be banned, that's about 20, all of whom burn their own games now, because downloads BECAME very unreliable after a console update.
I'm willing to bet it's only a matter of time (though it should have only taken a few days) before uploaders start with straight rips again.
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AfterDawn Addict
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13. April 2008 @ 00:22 |
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Originally posted by Kamahl:
There's nothing in this threat about the threat other than "OOoOOOOOo you might get banned,"
Really? I could have swore that there's some detail as to why no backup is perfect, how the modded firmware works, about making your own backups and downloading. Guess I must be mistaken. Sorry I can't give the exact info as to MS's methods for detection. I don't work for MS. Can you give us some links from MS employees? It'd sure be helpful.
Quote:
and yet everyone already seems to know this.
That's odd... because it got to the point where we needed a sticky. Almost daily someone new would post "will I get banned playing on LIVE?". People were too lazy to do a search.
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rob&keri
Member
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13. April 2008 @ 09:51 |
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hope I'm not out of order and I'm not trying to hijack the post but can I play and original game on live with a chipped or modded console?
Rob
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AfterDawn Addict
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13. April 2008 @ 10:53 |
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ya you can, but you still run the chance of being banned since its modded.
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Moderator
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13. April 2008 @ 13:43 |
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@Kamahl
I guess you don't come around here much - this question is asked a zillion times. Oh and do a google and see how many hits you get - a ton.
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cd3838
Newbie
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13. April 2008 @ 21:09 |
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So, if you do as recommended, and have two xboxs; one xbox for backups, and the other for originals on xbox live.. How do achievements work?
If you leave the "backup" xbox disconnected from the network when you play games, will it still tally your gamerscore? Then if you remove ny disc and plug it into the network, will it sync the updated scores with your gamertag? I know this is a trivial issue, but it is one that I am curious about!
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AfterDawn Addict
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13. April 2008 @ 22:02 |
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Just use the same hard drive for both machines. You'll still keep everything you've earned from both machines.
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cd3838
Newbie
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13. April 2008 @ 22:17 |
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Originally posted by bhetrick:
Just use the same hard drive for both machines. You'll still keep everything you've earned from both machines.
cool. thanks.
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cd3838
Newbie
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13. April 2008 @ 23:46 |
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Originally posted by bhetrick:
Just use the same hard drive for both machines. You'll still keep everything you've earned from both machines.
I also assume that downloadable content works the same way? Download it to the hard drive with the live-xbox then move the hard drive to the modded one, and the games can access it?
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tripplite
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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13. April 2008 @ 23:52 |
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Quote:
I also assume that downloadable content works the same way? Download it to the hard drive with the live-xbox then move the hard drive to the modded one, and the games can access it?
yup yup! somethings like downloaded movie and shows will be blocked unless a xboxlive connection is made, but otherwise anything downloaded or any game saves will be moved over with the switch of HDDs
-tripplite
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Senior Member
2 product reviews
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15. April 2008 @ 15:45 |
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I'm new to all this and I want to get my facts Straight.
1- I'f I play backups that are 'stealthed' with the two files mentioned, I will be able to play on Live, but will most probably get banned after some time.
2-I'm broke so even if I save my money, I can only buy one 360, and I am planning on modding it. Will this mean that even if I make an xbox live gamertag, for achievements and so on, and play backups, I'm still very likely to get banned.
3-The only way to play backups without getting banned is not to use a gamertag/xbox live in any way ??? :(
Thanks You have answered many of the questions of 14 year old in the desert, new to the 360 scene
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