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Modchipfitters busted?!?!?!
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juniR
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13. April 2008 @ 09:45 |
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Some of the stuff in this report is absolute tosh and definitely designed to promote fear and uncertainty among the modding fraternity so take your time if you aren't the cynic I am ;)
http://gaming.monstersandcritics.com/wii...factory_busted!
All the info given is actually vague and whilst they don't say, "illegal" modchips, it's clear there is a major effort to imply this. They use the word, "counterfeit" and talk about "console chips" which is not the same as saying "illegal modchip" (cos they can't as that would be a lie).
"...an industrial unit to churn out rogue console chips. At least two people have so far been arrested for their part in the ?fraud factory?. More than 2,000 counterfeit chips, were recovered from the raid."
This to me suggests that it's not the fact that they are supplying and fitting modchips, but that they are suspected of perhaps selling clones as the real thing and that would be fraud. That would be where the legal side of things kicks in (nothing to do with modchips per se or piracy) but the supposed ppl behind the "sting" don't waste time trying to milk the issue.
The "Nintendo insider" quotes are merely hearsay - and actually amusing to me personally ..."Chip it and you brick it, as we say around the office" - Yeah, I can imagine them saying that regularly and winking at each other LOL., ...definitely designed to encourage paranoia. Whoever came up with that line is one silly ****. There is a risk with any modification but it's more likely to be the quivering hand of a noob with a soldering iron than Nintendo that bricks a console.
The report has been constructed in such a way as to try and control ppls thoughts in quite a misleading and melodramatic way.
Supplying and/or fitting a modchip to a console is not illegal in the UK and just because it can be used to circumvent protection and enable you to use pirated software does not mean that's all you will do with it. I find the wording of this report not only insults my intelligence but really tries to manipulate those who aren't as informed.
What I personally find most disturbing in all of this, is that ppl actually get paid money to come up with this crap.
Disclaimer: Modchipfitters aren't mentioned in the report but their location being Coalville, they might know something about it as it would be big news to them if a neighbour was in trouble. It may well be that they have nothing to do with this issue and ppl should not assume anything, including that they are guilty of any illegal activity.
I know of a member who was having problems with his modchipped Wii and has been trying unsuccessfully to contact modchipfitters over the last couple of days and I dare say there are more. I hope this doesn't affect those ppl too much but anyone needing to contact them might try this page cos their front page is down.
http://www.modchipfitters.com/index.php?main_page=contact_us
Wii 3.2E w/ Wiikey 1.9s :: PSP 3.90 M33-3 :: NDS w/ R4DS :: Nokia N95
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. April 2008 @ 10:00
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Rucku5
Junior Member
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13. April 2008 @ 10:55 |
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Just posted a comment on that report! see how long the leave it up..
Freedom of speech and all that LOL.
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juniR
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13. April 2008 @ 11:14 |
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The same report is posted elsewhere - I seen it about 3/4 places, word for word, and on QJ there's a paraphrased version which doesn't contain all the flan but is still misleading cos all it talks about is piracy.
Like I've said - the legal issue seems to be fraud but there are quite dishonest ppl and/or organisations who have decided to put spin on it on order to deceive and cause stress to as many as possible. They have no right to the moral high ground. If they have to lie then it undermines their credibility and invalidates anything they say so why should anybody take them seriously? They are pathetic tbh and should get a proper job LOL.
Wii 3.2E w/ Wiikey 1.9s :: PSP 3.90 M33-3 :: NDS w/ R4DS :: Nokia N95
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varnull
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13. April 2008 @ 12:02 |
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Not sure why bashing the repoters is fair.. They are only quoting the facts as they stand under various laws.
Quote:
On Wednesday Mr Justice Laddie ruled that Ball had breached the Regulations by selling the mod chips. He then upped the ante by ruling that the use or advertising of mod chips, knowing that they circumvent TPMs, is also unlawful.
source :: http://www.out-law.com/page-4733
That ruling saw a massive shutdown of UK online chip sellers. It can be applied to any device or method for getting around TPM.. So a flashed 360 or a drive specifically modified to do the same also falls under the same ruling.
http://www.out-law.com/page-2325
http://www.out-law.com/page-4030
Quote:
Under today's changes, rightholders can take action against those individuals who circumvent what the law calls Technological Protection Measures, or TPMs to make unauthorised use of copyrighted works. Action, including criminal action, can also be taken against those who make and distribute equipment designed to circumvent TPMs.
While you might feel it is unjust and unfair.. it's your equipment after all, so you should be able to do whatever you want with it.. That is where the UK law stands so instead of just shouting about it why not put pressure on your MP. Obviously a modification to have any chance of being allowed must provide "added interoperability" and not just a way to avoid paying for copyrighted content.. You have to argue that the PRIMARY use of a mod is to allow use of imported games from different regions. If the UK game is identical to the releases from other regions it falls apart, and as the PS3 has region free games that will not stand up if and when chips appear. (wondering why sony support linux on the PS3?.. think no more.. it is another deterrent to modchip developers as it takes away the "interoperability and added function" claim)
That's why the xbox modchips haven't been subjected to this ruling (M$ learned a lot from the linux community and haven't ever enforced a crackdown on xbox modchip sellers because the "fair use" and "added function" was proved) whereas the PS1/2, Wii and 360 chips have.
Even so, you are taking a risk importing a modchip for any console and fitting them for anybody but yourself now.
I closed my chip and softmod installing business a while ago for just this reason. I'm not going to jail or losing my business for the sake of some kids being able to avoid paying for games.
I will still hardware mod an old xbox for somebody who wants to use it for a different function, say a media centre, small tv based pc or NAS.. but I won't do them for the purpose of playing games.. I disable that feature though it can be re-enabled by the user AFTER it has left my workshop. That's up to them, and they have to modify the software to do it.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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13. April 2008 @ 12:34 |
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Originally posted by varnull:
Not sure why bashing the repoters is fair.. They are only quoting the facts as they stand under various laws.
Quote:
On Wednesday Mr Justice Laddie ruled that Ball had breached the Regulations by selling the mod chips. He then upped the ante by ruling that the use or advertising of mod chips, knowing that they circumvent TPMs, is also unlawful.
source :: http://www.out-law.com/page-4733
That ruling saw a massive shutdown of UK online chip sellers. It can be applied to any device or method for getting around TPM.. So a flashed 360 or a drive specifically modified to do the same also falls under the same ruling.
http://www.out-law.com/page-2325
http://www.out-law.com/page-4030
Quote:
Under today's changes, rightholders can take action against those individuals who circumvent what the law calls Technological Protection Measures, or TPMs to make unauthorised use of copyrighted works. Action, including criminal action, can also be taken against those who make and distribute equipment designed to circumvent TPMs.
While you might feel it is unjust and unfair.. it's your equipment after all, so you should be able to do whatever you want with it.. That is where the UK law stands so instead of just shouting about it why not put pressure on your MP. Obviously a modification to have any chance of being allowed must provide "added interoperability" and not just a way to avoid paying for copyrighted content.. You have to argue that the PRIMARY use of a mod is to allow use of imported games from different regions. If the UK game is identical to the releases from other regions it falls apart, and as the PS3 has region free games that will not stand up if and when chips appear. (wondering why sony support linux on the PS3?.. think no more.. it is another deterrent to modchip developers as it takes away the "interoperability and added function" claim)
That's why the xbox modchips haven't been subjected to this ruling (M$ learned a lot from the linux community and haven't ever enforced a crackdown on xbox modchip sellers because the "fair use" and "added function" was proved) whereas the PS1/2, Wii and 360 chips have.
Even so, you are taking a risk importing a modchip for any console and fitting them for anybody but yourself now.
I closed my chip and softmod installing business a while ago for just this reason. I'm not going to jail or losing my business for the sake of some kids being able to avoid paying for games.
I will still hardware mod an old xbox for somebody who wants to use it for a different function, say a media centre, small tv based pc or NAS.. but I won't do them for the purpose of playing games.. I disable that feature though it can be re-enabled by the user AFTER it has left my workshop. That's up to them, and they have to modify the software to do it.
Whats the diff in modding a PS2 to play multi region discs,its not illegal yet to import DVDs... they are over reaching by insulting the intelligence of the consuemr by saying mod chips have no fair use value.
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.
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varnull
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13. April 2008 @ 12:43 |
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Unfortunately since that landmark ruling it is illegal to own, import or fit a modchip in the UK.
At the end of the day the content owners have more influence than the very few "fair users" out there.
It may not be illegal to import dvd's, but it is illegal to fit a machine with a device which allows the stripping of protection from those same discs. Also it is illegal to offer to fit, offer for sale so modified items, or the means to do the same, whether by hardware device or software modification (flashed firmware etc).
As you can tell a large part of my business was fitting modchips and softmodding. I took legal advice because this directly impacted on my legal business activities (xbox repairs) and the advice was clear..
"If you don't want to do the time, don't do the crime"
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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13. April 2008 @ 12:47 |
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freaking multi post....
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. April 2008 @ 13:08
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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13. April 2008 @ 12:51 |
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Originally posted by varnull:
Unfortunately since that landmark ruling it is illegal to own, import or fit a modchip in the UK.
At the end of the day the content owners have more influence than the very few "fair users" out there.
It may not be illegal to import dvd's, but it is illegal to fit a machine with a device which allows the stripping of protection from those same discs. Also it is illegal to offer to fit, offer for sale so modified items, or the means to do the same, whether by hardware device or software modification (flashed firmware etc).
As you can tell a large part of my business was fitting modchips and softmodding. I took legal advice because this directly impacted on my legal business activities (xbox repairs) and the advice was clear..
"If you don't want to do the time, don't do the crime"
Its true once there is precedent that its a crime its fcked up to bypass in any reasonable sense, gotta love socialistic mentalities, question not the government in action or jest. *rolls eyes*
Its not like the US is better they have layers of laws that conflict with each other 0-o
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.
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AfterDawn Addict
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13. April 2008 @ 12:54 |
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freaking multi post....
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. April 2008 @ 13:09
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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13. April 2008 @ 13:00 |
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freaking multi post....
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. April 2008 @ 13:20
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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13. April 2008 @ 13:03 |
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freaking multi post....
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. April 2008 @ 13:10
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juniR
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13. April 2008 @ 13:16 |
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Originally posted by varnull:
Not sure why bashing the repoters is fair.. They are only quoting the facts as they stand under various laws.
I'm not bashing any reporters - I'm referring to the comments made by ELSPA and the supposed "Nintendo insiders," when I talk about credibility.
You clearly miss the point. The raid is nothing to do with piracy but to do with the manufacture of counterfeit chips and fraud. That's why in the very first line of my opening post I said "take your time." If you rush headlong through the post as you seem to have done, you miss the fact that the vast majority has nothing to do with the issue and why the raid took place and as I said it's all spin - and you've started to concern yourself with the very issue of piracy just like they wanted you to.
I'm not talking about what's unfair - I don't give a hoot about it. I'm not shouting about anything - I'm just explaining the facts of this individual case where the report is deliberately designed to con and mislead ppl.
Read it again and tell me where they have raided this place in connection with piracy issues. You can't cos they haven't - it's a smokescreen and they are exploiting one legal issue to highlight something which is connected only by coincidence. Yes they may well have used this infringement of the law to try and get at this establishment because they are trying to combat modchip distrubution and piracy but it's like Al Capone - they couldn't get him on what they wanted so they nabbed him for tax evasion.
In laymens' terms they are manufacturing fake modchips and selling them as the real thing and that's why they get nicked. Personally I'm not unhappy about that.
Wii 3.2E w/ Wiikey 1.9s :: PSP 3.90 M33-3 :: NDS w/ R4DS :: Nokia N95
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varnull
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13. April 2008 @ 13:40 |
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Having timeout problems zippy?
I still think it's funny that the laws will seek to protect consumers from being ripped off by "fake" illegal devices. Nice irony.
I know somebody who was caught selling so called "drugs" at a music festival... They were vitamins. They got busted under the trades descriptions act and fined £5000.. the penalty if they had been the "real stuff" would have been a maximum of £600 for a first offence.
What they have been making... now don't you see the possibility that the people caught are claiming the devices are counterfeit because the possible consequences are less than the penalties for manufacturing the "real thing"
It's something I would do in the same situation, because a fake device is fraud, but a real device is certainly illegal. Theey may also be trying something which I would do.. Questioning the legality of the search. If the search was for "illegal modchips and/or fitting illegal chips, and they have turned up counterfeit goods instead or vice versa then a good lawyer could have lots and lots of fun, probably at our expense on legal aid..
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AfterDawn Addict
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13. April 2008 @ 13:47 |
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Originally posted by varnull:
Having timeout problems zippy?
I still think it's funny that the laws will seek to protect consumers from being ripped off by "fake" illegal devices. Nice irony.
I know somebody who was caught selling so called "drugs" at a music festival... They were vitamins. They got busted under the trades descriptions act and fined £5000.. the penalty if they had been the "real stuff" would have been a maximum of £600 for a first offence.
What they have been making... now don't you see the possibility that the people caught are claiming the devices are counterfeit because the possible consequences are less than the penalties for manufacturing the "real thing"
It's something I would do in the same situation, because a fake device is fraud, but a real device is certainly illegal. Theey may also be trying something which I would do.. Questioning the legality of the search. If the search was for "illegal modchips and/or fitting illegal chips, and they have turned up counterfeit goods instead or vice versa then a good lawyer could have lots and lots of fun, probably at our expense on legal aid..
blue dragon connection errors more like.
I swears its bad when business need to be protected from bad business praticies and infringe on the rights of the consumer.... this is why I rail agisnt over priced medicore products, I am surprised they do nto tax used media as another way to protect the poor corporations from monetary losses....
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.
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juniR
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13. April 2008 @ 14:02 |
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Originally posted by varnull:
I still think it's funny that the laws will seek to protect consumers from being ripped off by "fake" illegal devices. Nice irony...
LOL - yeah I want to be protected! - I don't want to be ripped off with a cheap clone that packs in everytime I play the latest game I just downloaded off freestuffforever.com :P
Wii 3.2E w/ Wiikey 1.9s :: PSP 3.90 M33-3 :: NDS w/ R4DS :: Nokia N95
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juniR
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13. April 2008 @ 20:43 |
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By the way varnull - I hear what you say regarding all the technicalities of TPM. I don't dispute that you have taken advice and made your own personal decision to avoid any problems accordingly, but I'm sure all these other traders have taken advice as well. They'd be foolish not to. The links you give relate to cases from years ago and that suggests that because of changes in representation and interpretation, prosecution for modchip supply or fitting isn't quite as simple as saying, "it's illegal full stop." I really don't see how it can be because they'd have all been taken down ages ago if it was. It's not like any of these ppl are hiding either - they advertise freely and can be located without any problem. The technicalities of law therefore must protect these traders and only through some side issue can they be got at - as in this case. That is logical to me. I don't know that manufacture is absolutely illegal either. The same points of law would apply if you ask me.
If anybody persitently and in full view of everybody broke the law when there are actually agencies trying to do their best to bring prosecution or at least and end to their activities then it makes no sense at all that they haven't been prosecuted if the law is that simple. QED
The only cases I've heard of in recent years where modchip fitters/suppliers or suppliers of pre-modded consoles have been prosecuted, until reading this report, has been in cases where they've been supplying pirated software and disks as well - the little cottage industry types that frequent car boot sales and such generally.
If in the coming weeks I read of all the other well known traders suffering the same fate as these guys in Coalville then I'll know you were right on the money and what you say here is absolute but I'd be surprised that it's taken so many years to get round to it.
Originally posted by varnull:
Unfortunately since that landmark ruling it is illegal to own, import or fit a modchip in the UK.
Wii 3.2E w/ Wiikey 1.9s :: PSP 3.90 M33-3 :: NDS w/ R4DS :: Nokia N95
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GlynM
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14. April 2008 @ 16:36 |
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bugger. I just had my wii done and it didn't work (would reckonise any game) so I sent it back to them although to a different address. Not heard anything from since or been able to get hold of modchipfitters.com.
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goodswipe
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14. April 2008 @ 16:43 |
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Originally posted by ZippyDSM:
freaking multi post....
HEH, looks like you encountered the crazy timeout errors everyone has been seeing!
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GlynM
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15. April 2008 @ 01:59 |
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I don't know what to do? should i contact trading standards to see if I can get my console back? Any ideas? I should be able to get the cost of the chip best from the credit card company but that still means I have lost a console.
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gperryman
Newbie
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15. April 2008 @ 09:27 |
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I also sent in a console last week and now it looks like I might loose it!
I think its true that 'modchipfitters' have been busted in some manner.
Does anyone have any advise on how to get our consoles back. I belive it was Leicestershire Trading Standards who were behind the bust, maybee we should contact them.
Has any one heard from 'Joe'. He is one of the owners and he has posted on this site before when they ran into problems last summer.
Any advise would be most welcome!
G Perryman
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mmclean24
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15. April 2008 @ 13:37 |
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I also sent in a console last week and now it looks like I might loose it!
I think its true that 'modchipfitters' have been busted in some manner.
Does anyone have any advise on how to get our consoles back. I belive it was Leicestershire Trading Standards who were behind the bust, maybee we should contact them.
Hi Perryman,
I have spoken to a chap named mark from leicestershire trading standards, i can confirm that it was modchipfitters (both home address and business address) that was raided on the 09/04/08. I too sent my wii off to be chipped. All consoles that were confiscated from these addresses are currently being held by the ELSPA. Consoles that HAVE NOT been chipped can be returned but you will need to contact ELSPA (you will need to contact Leicestershire County Council in order to do this). Consoles that HAVE been chipped will not be returned because there is a breach of the softwares act 2007. To find out whether or not your console has been chipped you will also need to contact ELSPA.
Hope this helps.
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mmclean24
Newbie
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15. April 2008 @ 14:17 |
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cont: My wii wasnt chipped, and as a result, i will be getting mine back.... was told it will take up to 4 months!
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GlynM
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15. April 2008 @ 15:22 |
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what is this software act 2007? I have never heard of this and can't find anything about this by searching through Google! I got hold of someone today on a different number but they didn't say much or anything about the bust when I questioned her. I can't find any article on bbc news for leicestershire about the bust which you would have thought there would be one. Was thinking of phoning leicester trading standards and asking them. Although it sounds like I will not see my wii again.
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gperryman
Newbie
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16. April 2008 @ 11:29 |
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Thanks for the info 'mmclean24'. Of all the crap luck. The place got busted the very next day after I sent my console, still, at least that means they wouldnt have had time to chip it I can therefore get it back (have to buy another one in the meantime though).
Do you have any specific contact details for this guy at Leicester Trading standards or anyone you have spoken to at Nazi headquaters....sorry I mean ELSPA.
As for the guys at Modchipfitters, sorry to here of your troubles, seems like the bastards are cracking down hard, you have our full support and best wishes.
G Perryman
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mmclean24
Newbie
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16. April 2008 @ 12:05 |
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I need to clear one thing up! its leicestershire trading standards and not leicester trading standards(two diff departments), i spoke to Mark and his number is 0116232323, he will take ur details and pass it on to a guy named John, he works in london for the police( computer and console forensics) and this John will phone you, and he is the man that can tell you if your getting your wii back or not!
gerryman.... did you posted your wii to modchipfitters on the 9th or 10th april? if so did you use parcelforce 48? if yes have you check to see if every arrived? use your consignment number on the PFU11 receipt form the parcelforce gave you when they collected it and go to there website and track it...
hope this helps
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