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Modchipfitters busted?!?!?!
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Rucku5
Junior Member
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16. April 2008 @ 12:23 |
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Do Any of the current Wii chips contain any intellectual property of Nintendo or any of the parts manufacturers?
I know that the chips for the original Xbox contained hacked MS bios code and therefore stepped over the legal line but i didnt think the chips used on the DVD drives contained any stolen IP.
am I wrong?
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varnull
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16. April 2008 @ 13:15 |
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^^ not actually the point.. They allow the circumvention of TPM's.. are designed to do that in fact and therefore they are illegal per se.
To JuniR
Correct, they relate to the big purge a couple of years ago. Unfortunately every bust since has been accompanied with a fine and gagging order instead of jailtime.
There have been busts but they have not been reported because of the gagging and a media smokescreen. I'm sure a really good search of local newspaper archives in the "other local news" sections will pull up some of the smaller stuff that never makes it on to the papers websites.
Some kid in his bedroom with one or two chips isn't exactly worth the time and effort of going after.. just like the bloke who brings in a few pouches of tobacco in his suitcase to sell on to his friends.. up to his legally allowed limit of course. He can still et busted at the point of resale, but it really isn't worth the time, money and effort to go after him.. they always go for the big guys.. and modchipstore seem to have been in that league.
The big push in the last few years has been counterfeit goods, clothing and dvd's. Maybe Leicester trading standards had a slow week and decided to have a go at something they have known about for a long time?.. These state organisations are like that.. sometimes they sit and watch until they have enough evidence to take action. Possibly an unhappy customer (somebody whose Wii didn't work.. like one of the previous posters.. complained to Leicester trading standards after opening his machine and finding something other than that which had been paid for?? (shock-horror.. I not only know where Coalville is.. I have been unfortunate enough to go there on more than one occasion. Free beer in the Railway pub was nice tho)
My town is the same.. Illegal trading goes on, and they know about some of it. Only when complaints start coming in do they take action.. It's like as long as you provide a good service and don't rock the boat or impact local businesses they turn a blind eye to the legalities.
Also don't forget.. there may have been other things ongoing, like benefit fraud investigations or irregular import behaviour (I know people who have bought from them and the packages have come from the far east directly.. which is a way for a business to avoid import restrictions/duties and an importers license) which also brought this to the attention of the authorities.
Ask bald-bouncer why he stopped trading (not busted but left the trade) and why it is almost impossible to source modchips in the UK. I'm sure he will be in a similar position regarding them as I am.
It's sad for the people who have lost money and consoles.. but it IS an illegal trade and dealing with unlawful businesses always carries a risk of loss.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 16. April 2008 @ 13:25
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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16. April 2008 @ 13:46 |
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Originally posted by varnull:
^^ not actually the point.. They allow the circumvention of TPM's.. are designed to do that in fact and therefore they are illegal per se.
To JuniR
Correct, they relate to the big purge a couple of years ago. Unfortunately every bust since has been accompanied with a fine and gagging order instead of jailtime.
There have been busts but they have not been reported because of the gagging and a media smokescreen. I'm sure a really good search of local newspaper archives in the "other local news" sections will pull up some of the smaller stuff that never makes it on to the papers websites.
Some kid in his bedroom with one or two chips isn't exactly worth the time and effort of going after.. just like the bloke who brings in a few pouches of tobacco in his suitcase to sell on to his friends.. up to his legally allowed limit of course. He can still et busted at the point of resale, but it really isn't worth the time, money and effort to go after him.. they always go for the big guys.. and modchipstore seem to have been in that league.
The big push in the last few years has been counterfeit goods, clothing and dvd's. Maybe Leicester trading standards had a slow week and decided to have a go at something they have known about for a long time?.. These state organisations are like that.. sometimes they sit and watch until they have enough evidence to take action. Possibly an unhappy customer (somebody whose Wii didn't work.. like one of the previous posters.. complained to Leicester trading standards after opening his machine and finding something other than that which had been paid for?? (shock-horror.. I not only know where Coalville is.. I have been unfortunate enough to go there on more than one occasion. Free beer in the Railway pub was nice tho)
My town is the same.. Illegal trading goes on, and they know about some of it. Only when complaints start coming in do they take action.. It's like as long as you provide a good service and don't rock the boat or impact local businesses they turn a blind eye to the legalities.
Also don't forget.. there may have been other things ongoing, like benefit fraud investigations or irregular import behaviour (I know people who have bought from them and the packages have come from the far east directly.. which is a way for a business to avoid import restrictions/duties and an importers license) which also brought this to the attention of the authorities.
Ask bald-bouncer why he stopped trading (not busted but left the trade) and why it is almost impossible to source modchips in the UK. I'm sure he will be in a similar position regarding them as I am.
It's sad for the people who have lost money and consoles.. but it IS an illegal trade and dealing with unlawful businesses always carries a risk of loss.
Its only illisct because the industry bought the laws, its only a "unlawful businesses" when its not mainstream and bonded, you ave as much if not more theft and descriptives business practices with fincail help and home repair stuff than you do with local based chippers....
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.
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varnull
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16. April 2008 @ 13:52 |
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Yeah zippy.. but there are legalized criminals.. banks, estate agents, landlords, tesco.plc, mpaa/riaa/bpi and governments..
and unlegalized criminals- modchip fitters and back street tobacco/alcohol/dvd traders.
That's how it stands.. and there is nothing we can do about it.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 16. April 2008 @ 13:55
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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16. April 2008 @ 14:14 |
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Originally posted by varnull:
Yeah zippy.. but there are legalized criminals.. banks, estate agents, landlords, tesco.plc, mpaa/riaa/bpi and governments..
and unlegalized criminals- modchip fitters and back street tobacco/alcohol/dvd traders.
That's how it stands.. and there is nothing we can do about it.
You can not buy new, boyycott the mainstream system, import, stay away from retail chains, go to non mainstream establishments, and fight via voting and what not to slow or reverse the damage the rich are imposing on the poor via blockage of fair use iedals.
staying away from "new" products alone will save you a lot of money.
edited for zippy speak.
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 16. April 2008 @ 14:39
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juniR
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16. April 2008 @ 14:51 |
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Varnull - I agree with what your are saying regarding bringing attention to the authorities - I know for a fact that modchipfitters have had ppl complain to trading standards cos I've read about them and the stuff I've read would indicate that they were asking for trouble by irritating customers with genuine grievances. Make enough ppl unhappy and you will certainly go down one way or another.
And when I said I read of stuff about other busts - I did actually read archives from local sources - But you said yourself that there aren't mainstream reports and then you are saying that local papers can report stuff the main ones can't thru gagging? And what is a "media smokescreen?" I really don't get that. Also you go further to say there may have been other "goings on" - Isn't that what I have claimed has been the cause of the "bust" and not implicitly modchips?
ELSPA can identify a good number of sites very easily and report them to the relevant authorities who can see with their own eyes that modchip fitting and supply is happening - it's blatant. Now this isn't on the scale of small time operators with modchipfitters being the only "big fish" either. There are a few well established traders out there and I don't subscribe to the theory that they were waiting until they had enough evidence of modchip fitting. I'm saying that the modchip fitting issue wasn't strong enough legally and they were gathering evidence on other stuff.
You seem to like analogies - Consider this, if you phone the police and report a child stealing a chocolate bar from a shop then they are obliged to do something about it. They may well not charge the kid but they will certainly issue a caution to the child and/or parent(s) and any persistence would force them to take the matter further. They don't turn round and say - we won't look at it because it's not bank robbery. Now commercial modchip fitting is way more than that if you are correct and it is indeed totally illegal.
If I'm right you are saying they got busted for supply and fitting of illegal modchips and I'm saying that if it was an absolute then why the hell didn't they use that term in their constructed report because I've seen the term used all over in reports of other cases?
Also - I've googled and I don't seem to find sites for back street tobacco/alcohol/dvd traders advertising freely and accepting major credit cards.
Another analogy - If you phone a gas fitter and ask how easy it is to fit a gas cooker and can you do it yourself - he will almost certainly tell you it has to be done by a registered Corgi gas fitter as that is the law. That's why they are gas fitters and not lawyers - it's not illegal to do it yourself as long as you are competent. So what defines competence? It doesn't matter does it? - You already booked the fitter cos he's the expert on all matters concerning gas.
I said in the opening post that I am a cynic. I fitted my own cooker. :)
EDIT - Good Luck to all you customers having to go thru this... you have my sympathy - it's bad luck :( - Me I'd buy another, get it chipped elsewhere and sell the other one when you get it back but you have to go with what you think's best yourself...
Wii 3.2E w/ Wiikey 1.9s :: PSP 3.90 M33-3 :: NDS w/ R4DS :: Nokia N95
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 16. April 2008 @ 14:59
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varnull
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16. April 2008 @ 15:11 |
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I get where you are coming from.. unfortunately as somebody recently working in retail I know the other side of the coin. The police don't give a damn about a kid stealing a chocolate bar. In fact they don't even consider it a crime unless some arbitrary value is reached (£500 by reports).. So retailers are on their own and have to use other means.. private prosecution and/or ban from stores.
As for a media smokescreen.. report some womans cat being rescued from a tree.. but don't publish anything that might tip off modders to actions going on in their locality... This one is probably the "lets make an example of em" bust.. and the "counterfeit chips" claims are to allay the fears of people who fit real chips so that they carry on business as usual. apart from the other point of letting the general public know the simple fact.. you buy some device yet don't have the right to do whatever the hell you want with it.. The paper with the report doesn't have any talkback or comments system so I can't go raising the issues there.
Also worth considering is this.. When they bust a business like this they want the top men, not just the lowly guys with soldering irons and the stock. A lot of these chipping businesses seem to be owned from overseas, making busting them pretty pointless.. they will just set up somewhere else a few weeks later.
In Wigan people have been selling dangerous methanol as vodka and putting people in hospital.. A news report that could have saved a lot of people going to hospital was held back because there was an ongoing criminal investigation.. The police can gag the press.
I bet all the small time chippers in Leicestershire have shut up shop for the time being. There may be another big purge underway.. The chippers who operate at a large computer fair near me have been notable by their absence the last 2 weekends. I'm going to watch the few businesses I know who do this and see what they do.
As for the law.. It's clear cut on the matter.
Oh and your gas cooker.. Guess what.. If there is a leak which destroys property and/or causes injuries/takes life YOU are liable. A Bolton landlord back when I was a student was jailed for 9 years for illegally fitting a gas cooker which caused an explosion and killed 2 of the tenants.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 16. April 2008 @ 15:18
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juniR
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16. April 2008 @ 16:41 |
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LOL - It wasn't a real chocolate bar and there's not the need to debate that m8. Substitute teenager and £500 handheld media player for kid with chocolate bar if it doesn't make sense to you. It's still not bank robbery and not as much of a "loss making" crime as fitting 10 modchips might cause if we assume each punter grabs 5 naughty games each - effectively £1500 - and you and I both know it's much much more than that. But in any case I'm more concerned with facts rather than conjecture.
And last time I spoke to my police inspector brother-in-law they weren't doing everything undercover either.
"This one is probably the "lets make an example of em" bust.. and the "counterfeit chips" claims are to allay the fears of people who fit real chips so that they carry on business as usual."
... Isn't that contradictory? Let ppl know they can take down the big boys but try and reassure them with the subtle use of carefully chosen dialogue when they boast of the bust just so they can sneak up on ppl? You'd think they'd be more subtle LOL. You think the news isn't out and all the other traders are just whistling away in blissful ignorance? Or do they all know but are fronting it out in a show of solidarity? But computer fair, car boot ppl are the first to hit the toilets when any s-h-1-t is going down - for the same reasons as has been mentioned - many are doing something illegal and they know it.
Whilst it's feasible that chip shops are actually owned by the Chinese (pardon the pun but I couldn't resist) it's also feasible they aren't. Again it makes no sense to wait and see if they can sort things in the far east when there's crime to combat at home. They don't just tie everything in red tape - mistakes are made but ppl get caught as well - especially blatant criminals and I can't believe that advertising is ignored full stop. Crime is about statistics but sometimes you can't get away with using the calculator if enough ppl complain.
Saying the law is clear cut doesn't actually mean you are correct. You may be but I'm not convinced. It's not cos I don't want modchips to be illegal - it's because I haven't read anything solidly telling me that it is and in fact everything I see and read, including the things I see on trader websites and this latest report, and how it's worded, contradicts the suggestion that modchips are illegal.
It doesn't matter that ppl have been convicted in the past specifically for modchips - Laws change - even landmark cases can be superceded, regulation and "use for purposes" mean that ppl have recourse to use modchips legitimately and I believe at this time that is enough to protect traders and customers.
Someone wanna point me to the statute books? I was able to find out very easily what was illegal about gas - this stuff is way harder to track down properly. LOL
Wii 3.2E w/ Wiikey 1.9s :: PSP 3.90 M33-3 :: NDS w/ R4DS :: Nokia N95
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VoodoYak
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16. April 2008 @ 17:19 |
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Originally posted by gperryman:
Thanks for the info 'mmclean24'. Of all the crap luck. The place got busted the very next day after I sent my console, still, at least that means they wouldnt have had time to chip it I can therefore get it back (have to buy another one in the meantime though).
Do you have any specific contact details for this guy at Leicester Trading standards or anyone you have spoken to at Nazi headquaters....sorry I mean ELSPA.
As for the guys at Modchipfitters, sorry to here of your troubles, seems like the bastards are cracking down hard, you have our full support and best wishes.
G Perryman
I spoke to Mark at Trading standards earlier today and in turn was contacted by John from ELSPA.
He confirmed that only the consoles (as well as modchips etc) on the business premises on the day of the raid (9th April)were seized.
My console was sent to Modchipfitters on the 9th and according to track and trace was received on the 11th and according to ELSPA they DONT have my console and it should still be in Modchipfitters possesion, only problem is that Modchipfitters are now not responding to correspondence.
He advised that the 'missing' console should be reported as stolen to Leicestershire police, and the crime number issued should aid in a possible insurance claim.
Im giving them a day to respond before I report it as I really dont want to add to their problems.
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gperryman
Newbie
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17. April 2008 @ 05:22 |
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Hey 'VoodoYak', im in exactly the same situation. My console was sent on the 8th but according to 'John' from ELSPA they do not have my console. According to the Parcel Force tracking system it was delivered on the 11th (but to who?). Parcel Force should have only delivered to the specified address which was the UNIT 10 delivery address and as the company was closed down at this point and the unit was closed off Parcel Force should have returned the console to the sender. As the console was insured under the P&P that we paid for I am putting in a claim for wrongfull delivery. It will then be up to Parcel Force to find and claim back the money/consoles that they have lost. Suggest that you do the same. Hopefully we will at least get some compensation out of this.
Regards,
G Perryman
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VoodoYak
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17. April 2008 @ 05:58 |
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gperryman- Hi, Ive since been in touch with Leicestershire police, and they advised that a criminal offence has not taken place, if the company have the consoles it is a matter for civil action.
He advised to go through Citizens Advice,although what good that will do, I dont know.
They also advised that we may be covered on household insurance, as the company is classed as going bust, worth a call to the insurers I suppose.
I dont know where your console ended up, but from the track and trace mine ended up at LE67 4JP.
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gperryman
Newbie
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17. April 2008 @ 06:40 |
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To 'VoodoYak'
It looks like your console ended up at the company address after all which means there must be someone still there in the workshop signing for delivery of our consoles. They will ever return them to us or sell them and do a runner. Either way, in order to do things legally you need to write a formal letter demanding the return of the console (and the money you lost if you like) within 28 days or you will be forced to file a claim through civil court. To be on the safe side send it to both the workshop address and the home address.
Workshop address is Modchipfitters Ltd, Unit 10 The Courtyard, Whitwick Business Park, Stenson Road, Coalville, LE67 4JP.
Home address is Modchip Fitters, 59 Forest Road, Coalville, Leicestershire, LE67 3SN
Hopefully they will do the right thing and return the consoles quickly. If not then it's best to have issued the formal warning early.
Good Luck.
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stuvspec
Newbie
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18. April 2008 @ 03:26 |
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Hi there,
With regard to the modchippers debate I recently had the NME chip installed by them (took them 3 weeks from collection to return) it worked fine for a few days but now comes up with the E64 error and lockes the drive shut. Leave it for a few hours and it works again for 1/2 hour and then same again. I tried to contact them before they got busted but no reply :( Looks like I am stuck with a brand new box that don't work!!!! As an aside to the people whos boxes are still missing mine was delivered to an NG21 address which is in Mansfield.
Stu
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gperryman
Newbie
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18. April 2008 @ 04:23 |
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After compaining to Royal Mail about the mis-delivery of my Wii, guess what, its suddenly turned up!!! I got an e-mail from them last night saying that it would be delivered back to me today. Unbelivebly chuffed I am!!!
I recommend that anyone who had thier console delivered after the 9th check with Parcel Force because even though the tracker says Delivered it may have in fact been returned to the depot.
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mmclean24
Newbie
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18. April 2008 @ 07:40 |
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Originally posted by gperryman:
After compaining to Royal Mail about the mis-delivery of my Wii, guess what, its suddenly turned up!!! I got an e-mail from them last night saying that it would be delivered back to me today. Unbelivebly chuffed I am!!!
I recommend that anyone who had thier console delivered after the 9th check with Parcel Force because even though the tracker says Delivered it may have in fact been returned to the depot.
Well done gperryman! my Wii is being checked to make sure its not been chipped, if its not been chipped i will get back next month!
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xmccool
Newbie
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26. April 2008 @ 18:07 |
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On the related thread http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/652765
GlynM wrote
Quote:
I was wondering if anyone had any idea what has happened to Modchipfitters.com? I have my wii done, it didn't work (wouldn't reckonise any disk) so I had to return it. Since returning it the website in continually under maintence and the phone number goes straight to the answer phone.
Well, we now know that they got busted, BUT - I have a friend in the same position. Received Wii back just before the bust, but it won't recognize any [non-official] disk - does anyone have a suggested fix?
Tried with setup disks [and game backup, of course] burned to many different types of dvd-r and dvd+r and none are recognized. [Haven't tried Maxell -r yet, though]. Anybody got any suggestions?
The Wii works as normal, but I suppose my friend can now forget about the ModChipFitters warranty sticker and take a peek inside... but what to do then??
Any help would be appreciated.
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GlynM
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27. April 2008 @ 03:23 |
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they have replied to an email (modchipfitters) and letter I sent to them request for my wii back in 14 days. they reckon it will be back this week in working order. Not sure if that will be the case tho?
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odieuk
Newbie
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28. April 2008 @ 07:17 |
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All
I also had my 360 seized by ELSPA from Modchip Fitters on 9-04-08 and so far got the following infor that may help others in my position - as long as your console was not moded prior to being seized.
The contact at ELSPA is John Hingham - 07770 588 354 - He has around 90 consoles and will require either the Serial No. or Modchip's Ticket Ref + any stickers etc. that will help id your console.
He will get back to you if he has it then you will need to arrange for collection / postage
If like me, you are trying to get money back from Modchippers - Who have ignored my request on ALL emails received from them
I was informed by John Hingham that I should contact Mark Kelly - Leicestershire trading standards - 0116 305 8000 and talk to him.
Odieuk
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Newbie
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30. April 2008 @ 14:54 |
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can anyone who is trying to get a refund please email sales@modchipfitters.co.uk so we can look into the matter and get them processed thanks
please note you must include your order number for us to be able to find your payment
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 30. April 2008 @ 14:56
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varnull
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30. April 2008 @ 14:59 |
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Thanks modfitter.. why not make a profile page so people can contact/ask through the shoutbox function and we can direct people there.
Hope you guys are ok.. scary times eh?
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panic2001
Newbie
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1. May 2008 @ 14:35 |
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hi, i need some help please, you know for "NEW! Pre-modded Xbox 360 PREMIUM" on the modchipfitters website, my friend bought one from them about 4-5months ago and basicly i was wondering if anyone had any websites for where my friend could download torrents of games, and how do actually do it, because my friend is bugging me all the time and i havent got a clue, thanks alot, much appreciated!!
oh and by the way, has anyone else bought one from them and know if its PAL version you have to download...
thanks in advance!
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stu1618
Newbie
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11. May 2008 @ 16:56 |
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Hello,First Post.
I'm in the same boat as Glyn. I got a mail from the on the 20th Apr saying that my machine was not taken by elspa and I'll get it back in working order in a weeks time. Over two weeks later, they are not replying to mails again. I don't know what to do, I feel I've given them enough time, I sent it to them on the 9th of March, 2 months ago. I sent them my wii, and paid them £170 through my credit card. I've never been in this situation before, so I may have to phone the credit card company to see where I stand.
Modchip, let me know whats happening, do I need to go out and by a new wii? Just tell us the truth.
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GlynM
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11. May 2008 @ 18:35 |
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I have bought a new one (although my brother will buy it off me if I get the other one back.) I just want the one back from modchipfitters so I can at least try and get it fixed elsewhere. did you sent it to the returns department stu?
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stu1618
Newbie
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12. May 2008 @ 17:44 |
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I tried to install the chip myself and messed up,wrong wire basically. I paid the £100 for the repair service and sent it to them on the 9th of March. I heard nothing from them after the conformation of recieved. I phone them on the 8th of April, they tell me it came back from the unit the week before, I should of got an email. I didn't.
They tell me the DVD drive board is beyond repair, I paid an extra £70 for a new drive, they said they'll install the modchip I sent them on the new drive board, install into my wii, and sent it back. Next day they get busted. I tried to contact them twice a week until the mail I got same as you. Now I here nothing.
If I don't here anything by end of week I'll contact ELSPA to see if they have it and Modchip are lying. I'll also contact my credit card, but modchip have taken so long I don't know if card co will do anything. Anyway I'm of to ebay for a new wii, girlfriend is going nuts since it was a present to her from me. Good luck Glyn, I feel like driving up there and demanding it back.
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odieuk
Newbie
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16. May 2008 @ 05:05 |
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Originally posted by modfitter:
can anyone who is trying to get a refund please email sales@modchipfitters.co.uk so we can look into the matter and get them processed thanks
please note you must include your order number for us to be able to find your payment
Has anyone emailed Modchip Fitters and got a reply for a refund
I have tried twice with out any reply.
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