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The Pirate Bay is under fire again
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The following comments relate to this news article:
article published on 6 September, 2008
The infamous torrent tracker The Pirate Bay is back in the news today, this time for refusing to take down a user-uploaded torrent that includes autopsy pictures of two toddlers that were murdered in Arboga earlier this year.
The photos are part of a larger collection of material that came from a police investigation into the case.
Niklas Jangestig, the father of the murdered children, ... [ read the full article ]
Please read the original article before posting your comments.
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Senior Member
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7. September 2008 @ 00:30 |
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The only thing that I really agree with is that there are too many missing facts in this story. Most significantly, how did the documents get out in the open in the first place? Second of all, who in the world shared them? I find it odd that with all the press this story has received, not once have I seen even an alias for the user who actually uploaded the torrent in the first place.
I don't think it's right for things like this to be spread, but it seems like people are using this as an excuse to point a finger at TPB, while completely ignoring the person(s) actually responsible for violating this family's privacy in the first place. Why aren't authorities taking down all of the IP addresses in that torrent's swarm and going after the real sickos?
Finally, even if TPB complies and takes down the offensive material, what's to stop the sick people who shared it from doing so again - perhaps in an even more grotesque manner? Until the people who are ultimately responsible are stopped, it would seem that TPB is just a means to an end for them.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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7. September 2008 @ 00:31 |
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I for one will never use TPB again because of this. I have lost all respect for them.
I see it the other way around. I loss faith in the tastleless human who didn't see the problem in uploading this to a public website. The Pirate Bay has always said the won't remove this/blah blah and yes this is something that should be removed but with lawsuits looming I don't think it's the best time to change there stance of torrent removal.
"Some people have no damn sense." - Nephilim, March 27 2007 @ 18:08 This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. September 2008 @ 00:53
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craftyzan
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7. September 2008 @ 01:20 |
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I sent the Bay a letter.
The Pirate Bay:
I am concerned about a user-uploaded torrent that includes autopsy pictures of two toddlers that were murdered in Arboga earlier this year that I heard about on http://www.afterdawn.com/news/.
The photos can be considered depictions of child abuse post mortem.
Removal of the photographs of the dead children would be in the best interests of the Pirate bay and in good taste.
Anonymous
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slickwill
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7. September 2008 @ 02:12 |
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One really negative effect of making this incident wide spread is that people who didn't know about the pictures being posted on TPB might become curious and download them.
So in retrospect, this article may have the opposite effect from what the parent's want. (opposite as in more people downloading/viewing the photos).
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. September 2008 @ 02:13
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varnull
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7. September 2008 @ 02:35 |
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What a load of crap there is in this topic.. Nothing is wrong in posting information.. just because YOU may not like it doesn't mean others should be censored to fall into line with your personal choices.
There is more to this than just some pictures, and child abuse post mortem.. what garbage. An autopsy is completely legal procedure carried out by professionals working for the authorities to ascertain the actual cause of death.. remember this.. you can't abuse the dead, because the dead have no feelings.
The content is legally available and public domain in Sweden. I suggest people get clued up on the facts before they continue with this hysterical "protect children" ranting which just proves how media brainwashed you are.
Originally posted by illunatic:
TPB is all of us. Don't you guys get that? TPB is not a person or group that is "allowing" these files to be shared. TPB is an impartial tool which is allowing humanity to operate without interfering; despite the flaws we continue to exhibit through our actions.
TPB is merely a tool. It is up to us as *individuals* to accept the responsibility for how we use this tool. To expect that everyone will use it the same way you do will inevitably bring you more disappointment because it won't end with these pictures. Remove them and something else will appear that will piss you off. It will only be a matter of time before you are the one who is pissing others off and the lynch mob comes for you.
http://suprbay.org/showthread.php?p=197087
There it is.. YOU may not like the fact that this information is available.. but YOU don't have the right to say it shouldn't be available. Information is just that.. information. It is impartial.
Demanding the removal of information of any kind is against the principles of freedom of information which I'm sure we all hold very dear. Those rights bring with them responsibilities which we have to accept and learn to deal with. If you don't like this sort of thing then DON'T LOOK AT IT, but don't tell me that I can't.
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gsuscrazy
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7. September 2008 @ 02:56 |
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There is more to this than just some pictures, and child abuse post mortem.. what garbage. An autopsy is completely legal procedure carried out by professionals working for the authorities to ascertain the actual cause of death.. remember this.. you can't abuse the dead, because the dead have no feelings.
well if i dug up your recently deceased grandmother or aunt, and had sexual intercourse with her, im commiting a post mortem crime, so there can be forms of criminal abuse. so do not talk of things you do not know.
varnell, you seem to think that this is some sort of legal battle we are declaring, its not, its about taste, and lack thereof, think of it like this..
say you are a mildly conservative person, with religious beliefs, and
your favorite show decides to turn everyone gay, and have every episode focus on darwinism and evolution, you are going to protest what they are doing, and boycott them...
and that is what we are doing...we do not condone their actions, so in turn, we are abandoning them, and informing them, and others of that action.
go ahead, stand up for them, be their cheerleader, im glad you support showing someones child being cut up, im glad you endorse all the sickos high fiving each other, and laughing at the corpses of these poor children being cut up, when a father asks to remove the torrent of his childrens autopsy, and you are so shallow as to deny him that right, then your scum, and frankly those that defend the sites right to refuse a grieving father is also scum IMHO
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. September 2008 @ 02:58
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varnull
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7. September 2008 @ 03:17 |
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well if i dug up your recently deceased grandmother or aunt, and had sexual intercourse with her, im commiting a post mortem crime, so there can be forms of criminal abuse. so do not talk of things you do not know.
And if you did that it would just show how sick you are.. It wouldn't offend the dead person because they would have no opinion!
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go ahead, stand up for them, be their cheerleader, im glad you support showing someones child being cut up, im glad you endorse all the sickos high fiving each other, and laughing at the corpses of these poor children being cut up, when a father asks to remove the torrent of his childrens autopsy, and you are so shallow as to deny him that right, then your scum, and frankly those that defend the sites right to refuse a grieving father is also scum IMHO
You miss the point completely.. take your religious and moralistic BS somewhere else where you might get your half baked ideas listened to.
Whether I agree or disagree with this content is irrelevant. I haven't even said what I personally think about the actual content.. so you are making assumptions abut me based on YOUR prejudice and ingrained morals (usually sign of a hypocrite hahaha)
So you are saying because YOU don't like it it should be taken down.. Hi mr censor.. Who made YOU the guardian of my sense of decency.. next you will be saying "I don't like xxxxxx because it is offensive to MY SENSE of decency, so nobody else should be allowed to see it either.. You represent the tyranny of evil men, whether you like it or not. YOU are the cheerleader for the mob. YOU are the person who will accuse and abuse unfairly. I just defend the right to information. Whether that information is seen by people like you as offensive I care not, that isn't the point and idiots like YOU had better get used to it!!
TPB have a very good point.. As long as the content is not illegal there are no grounds for removal. This content may not be to everybody's tastes, but it is not illegal and must stay. NOBODY is forcing anybody too look (unlike the German people who were forced to look at the death camps in 1945 to see the extent of their crime)
FYI.. before any other retarded f--k starts ranting at me.. I am a parent, and IF this was about my children I may not like it being posted, but I would not be demanding that it be taken down as it is publicly available information which has been legally obtained. As such I would defend the rights of the person posting it to share the information in the common public good.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. September 2008 @ 03:20
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Solo_Tek
Junior Member
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7. September 2008 @ 04:08 |
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Quote varnull
?An autopsy is completely legal procedure carried out by professionals working for the authorities to ascertain the actual cause of death.. remember this.. you can't abuse the dead, because the dead have no feelings.?
Your opinions on the dead not having feelings is something that is your belief and your opinion and you want to tear ours down and say that you are correct and that we should all fall in line with you or leave.
You are saying we should.
?mean others should be censored to fall into line with your personal choices. ?
If you can use and convey your beliefs,views and opinions then others should have the same right as you and not be talked down to in a harsh manner.
Quote varnull
?An autopsy is completely legal procedure carried out by professionals working for the authorities to ascertain the actual cause of death.?
Hence the word professionals
The content is legally available and public domain in Sweden?
Prove it
You posted this link where only a handful of people agreed with what you say. And there is nothing within this link to back up anything you have claimed in this post. So you want to continue to force your views and be little and talk down to people.
http://suprbay.org/showthread.php?p=197087
Quote varnull
?Demanding the removal of information of any kind is against the principles of freedom of information which I'm sure we all hold very dear.?
I suggest you read the first paragraph of the information provided in this link:
http://www.socialstyrelsen.se/en/about/e...information.htm
?In general, person identified information can be collected and stored only after the explicit informed consent of the individual.?
Further in the outline
?There are limitations on how and when the data can be used, and there are rules about which authorities, organisations and/or individuals that can get access to the data. According to these rules, person identified health data can only be used for
1.research,
2.statistics, and
3.follow-up of health care.
The principles of public disclosure and confidentiality?
If we all hold them so dear ? principles of freedom of information? then look at our HIPPA laws as well.
Do what you want but don't come here and put down people and call people names and force your views and belief's and opinions upon people and tell them that the only ones that matter are yours. If you cant accept to read and argue in a civil manner with other peoples belief's and views and opinions in a calm and intelligent manner as others have before you then maybe you need to leave this specific forum and return when you can act intelligent and carry and intelligent conversation with other human begins.
P.S. Learn to support and back up your facts before you act in this manner.
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jetyi83
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7. September 2008 @ 04:20 |
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wow i didnt read one comment backing tpb. I dont want to see the pics of this guys dead children, but im all for pirate bays decision.
stay out of it unless forced by law. let people share what they want. More respect for pirate bay, much more than before even.
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Member
1 product review
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7. September 2008 @ 04:22 |
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I really do like some of TPB previous antics. Bashing the MPAA and watnot but I really do think they should take it down. Maybe the Swedish have different views on whats acceptable or not but I don't think it's right for them to basically tell him to sod off. They could have delt with it a little better.
Although I am guessing there is far worst content out there on the net.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. September 2008 @ 04:25
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KKM
Junior Member
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7. September 2008 @ 05:05 |
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Originally posted by lxfactor:
first of all if your children are dead.. you did something wrong as a parent.. second of all it isn't about material.. if it was a closed zip file and renamed.. no body would know S**T.. so some nut posted it.. pirate bay has removed zero torrents... from request from anyone.. why start now?.. and why are you looking up things on pirate websites anyways.. don't you have funerals to plan and attend.. im not trying to be a jerk.. but whoever downloads it is sick.. but thats not on us to judge.. it might have been wise to remove it.. but it might have seem as a sign of weakness in the eyes of MPAA/RIAA if it were the first torrent removed.
I really don't like you. If this site allowed, I'd call you immature names.
You should grow up and do some living in the world.
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Member
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7. September 2008 @ 05:29 |
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This has nothing to do with censorship but taste......This is totally classless on TP part.
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varnull
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7. September 2008 @ 05:38 |
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Quote:
P.S. Learn to support and back up your facts before you act in this manner.
I have prick.. I have sought out the Sewdish laws and quotes on TPB (where I am a member BTW.. unlike 99% of the other people posting in this topic.
ALL this information is available from the Swedish authorities for a small fee to cover printing and postage. All that is happening here is the information is being distributed in a more accessible way.
Now about your irrelevant misquoting of laws.. Those only apply to THE LIVING who may be harmed by disclosure of information. The dead have no such rights.
You think we should allow a free for all abuse session?.. I suggest "junior member" YOU check your facts before you try to correct and censor your elders and seniors!
Whay about the videos there of American soldiers being beheaded, or saddam hussiens execution?? not a whimper.. some pictures and an autopsy report and all hell breaks lose.. get some perspective n00bs.. this is the real world and it may not be what you like it to be.. but it is what we have.
According to certain people only the views THEY hold are valid.. any other opinion brands somebody a sicko.. Enjoy your big brother religion/bigot/politician/newspaper/mob and big business run world you are creating.. You don't own me f--kers.. and you aren't going to change my opinions by abusing me.. I will report the next dickhead who tries to make things personal.
YOU DON'T LIKE THE CONTENT THEN DON'T LOOK AT IT... end of story.. This stuff mey not be tasteful, but it is not illegal. TPB are perfectly right to keep it up there.. censor one legal thing and where next.. everything that MAY offend somebody?
You can stick your USA laws right where the sun don't shine, because they are not relevant in a global context.. They are not relevant when it comes to this subject. USA does not own the internet or the world just yet!! asnd we are so glad it doesn't because we would only get sanitised church approves crap if it did!
A little point about true freedom..
Freedom means the right to make your own choices
Freedom means the right to make your own dicisions
freedom means the right to hold your own views
Freedom means the right to speak your mind without the fear of reprisals from do gooders and repressive bigots who come touting laws and restrictions.
Freedom means the right to look at, or not look at anything you choose.
Freedom means the right to access the information you want to make those choices and form those opinions.
Freedom involves responsibility and understanding that you will see things you may not like along with the things you do.
Freedom means you do not have the right to say what should and should not be available. It means that you treat people with the respect you would hope to receive as a free thinking adult capable of making your own decisions.
This is about a lot more than a few pictures.. it is a sign of the general decline into sheep that is being fostered by the state controlled media across the world.. You people need to learn to think for yourselves before shouting down and attacking people who understand the responsibilities which come with freedom.
Remember this.. Under the laws of every country I know it is impossible to invade the privacy of, slander or libel the dead.
I will support TPB over any kid trying to sound big on afterdawn because they are a force for freedom, whereas the censors and the "take it down" ranters are a force for compliance with those who would restrict and refuse access to public domain information..
You people make me sick. You are the same mob who don't like to hear your soldiers are getting their asses kicked in Afghanistan because of inadequate leadership and equipment. Would you like that information suppressed too? How about taking all the names off war memorials while we are at it..
You can find out all about the dead.. some countries try to make money out of information about the deceased since 1970.. but really as information about the dead from before that date is freely available that also is wrong. Public documents are public documents.. live with it.
This is my last comment on the matter.. I will leave it to you ranters and censors to carry on with your wailing and head holding now....
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. September 2008 @ 05:42
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Efreedom
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7. September 2008 @ 06:06 |
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Many people comment. Only a few make valid arguments.
What is the point of ANY material? Who gets to play judge and jury demanding there be a point to information? That information be justified to a criteria that is acceptable to.... who? You?
The point of the material is beside the point.
You may need to find a site that has a moral code it follows that suits the code you like. One that censors material unless it meets your needs for material being *acceptable.*
Where does it STOP? Piratebay already has a stopping point.... the point at which it becomes illegal. You're demanding it go beyond that. I ask you again, why THIS particular instance above all others?
I'm sorry you feel the principle of freedom of information is so worthless, but thankful that how you feel about it doesn't matter.
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sgtwesker
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7. September 2008 @ 06:37 |
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i also belive that piratebay.org is wrong for not removing the pics. i have a child due to be born soon, and if somthing ever happened to it i shure as hell wouldnt want any pics of any kind on the internet for people to see.
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13thHouR
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7. September 2008 @ 07:06 |
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Good for the Pirate Bay, freedom of speech is every humans right and what we should be fighting for, removing these images would be censorship. BTW child porn is ALWAYS removed for The Pirate Bay.
i know this is a touchy subject but ppl have the choice NOT to look.
see i used to visit www.Ogrish.com until the powers that be shut it down because too many american soldiers being killed were uploaded to the site.
now you are just redirected to propaganda machine LiveLeak.com which is moderated to happy none american upsetting material.
This is life, nannying adults is control and not acceptable
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. September 2008 @ 07:08
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Rosetta
Newbie
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7. September 2008 @ 07:21 |
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There are two sides to my thinking there, one is they really should remove that content out of human decency. Its not about picking and choosing what is morally right or not, its about being decent human beings. I love the pirate bay but am looking at them in a different light. if its not all about money and they have a real love for torrents and the people who use then they should remove the content.
the other is that this is illegal downloading and who is anyone to try and take the higher ground. I am leaning towards the former
You have a good point varnel, if you dont like the content then you have the freedom of choice not to look. But people also have the freedom to express their opinions on the topic without being attacked by you, and before you attack me also I am just exercising my freedom of opinion and have not said a bad word against you (as tempting as it was lol). I personally dont think that people (in general) are smart enough to exercise all these rights you got so excited and talked about. they need rules and guidelines to keep them in check, this is not a perfect world. I think the pirate bay needs to vet certain content, not all as that would be ridiculous but just things which are a cause for concern with people such as this. ofc with torrents there will be content people don't agree with but if you give total freedom to people they it will be taken to far and when will it stop, there are sick people out there (some of whom have commented on this very topic from what I have read) when will we say stop, when it is to late I guess.
Its just a little hard to not think that tbh have just washed their hands of a touchy subject to shake the responsibility of it. However they aren't in control of what people upload so it isn't really their fault, not directly anyway.
this kind of thing may not bother those who aren't particularly religious hence the differences in opinions. I am not a strict and devout Christian but i was brought up on Christian morals and values which is a definite influence on the opinion I have expressed here.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. September 2008 @ 08:01
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advent
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7. September 2008 @ 09:37 |
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Regardless of all the arguments, for or against , the decent thing to have done would have been to remove the article.
As for TPB itself, i have'nt used it for ages-there are far better trackers out there.
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varnull
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7. September 2008 @ 10:25 |
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Hi Rosetta.. but.. people are not making a valid point, they are screaming and ranting like the herd they have been trained to be "Censor..remove.. ban"
The Pirate Bay is the embodiment of a philosophy. If information is legal then it is in the common interest to share it. It doesn't matter what the information is. In that they are in line with the more progressive parts of society which say you shouldn't necessarily turn your eyes from what is shocking or offends you, that you should look and learn from it.
There is no "decent" thing to do.. removing the link is against the philosophy of free and open access to information. To demand it is removed is the indecent thing as it requires censorship of information. It doesn't matter why people have decided to download this information, that is up to them. I will not judge people who chose to access this kind of material. Also I will draw no opinion about why the person who sourced and shared it did so, again that is a matter for them alone not for us. we know nothing about them, or what their motives are for sharing this content.
I'm pleased to see that you have thought about the subject and come to your conclusions based on what you believe, but you must understand that it is not for us to say what is right or wrong or what should or should not be available. Once you start using the "decency" and "offensive" excuses then the floodgates are open for every other group of extremists to start demanding content be removed.. and all because they don't like it, not because it is illegal or harming or invasive.
This is a good torrent.. it has raised a subject normally buried and shown lots of people for the censors and ranters for the "common good" that they really are.
They don't speak for me, I hope they don't speak for you, and I'm so glad that from the view of TPB owners they don't speak for or influence them either.
It doesn't matter what we think, because TPB admins have already spoken on the matter.. and it stays.
As a member of EFF I agree with them and support the decision not to remove the link, and I don't care what assumptions anybody here wants to make about me from that statement.
I think this subject has run it's course.. there is nothing to be learned or gained here, except an insight into people who believe they have the right by demanding things be removed to speak for us and to "protect" us from things they don't like.
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Junior Member
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7. September 2008 @ 10:27 |
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Where do you draw the line if you start having one or two people filtering? I see on TV all the time of real dead people, usually blurring out their faces, but still just as bad. But, Pirate Bay is an organization that believes all information should be freely available, and I would say on the top of their list is ESPECIALLY any info coming out of a government agency such as police files. So if they aren't filtering info that could be potentially "owned" or copyrighted, they certainly shouldn't start filtering info that's probably in or going to be in or should be in public records.
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triple1
Newbie
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7. September 2008 @ 10:53 |
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I understand everyone's frustration at the content and the right to post. WHat if it were a different subject matter that we all were offended by? A picture of a toddler's cleft surgery gone awry? Pictures of the unibomber's aftermath of all the small children blasted to pieces? The victims jumping for their lives at the WTC?
What i am trying to say is that it really doesn't matter what the topic, picture or discussion is posted about. The fact of the matter is that it is posted and life goes on.Some will get pissed, hurt and some will like it or some could give a shit. The Pirate bay is just one of the many outlets that allow us to send this info up for the whole world to see. If it were at a different P2P site we would be all over them. Don't knock the collecter, look at the user. The collecter is there for all of us and we use it as we need and never complain. As a parent my heart goes out to this man and his family. Can't say that i feel your pain, an i hope i never have to feel that type of pain. However, content that we do not want to see nor hear is simply dealt with by clicking that thing that use use daily to surf the net! it's that simple.
Enjoy life!
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7. September 2008 @ 10:57 |
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This really all boils down to who thinks of this either logically or emotionally. Logically, there is no reason to take them down. The pictures are part of an overall investigation and serve its purpose in that way. While emotionally/morally, it can be seen as wrong. To post pictures of a fathers young children being opened up is really messed up, especially after he pleaded to have them taken down.
Really, TPB is not responsible for what users post. But they should step in and take it down. I'm all for trying to prove a point, but in cases like these, where it is a father and his children, I don't think your point can really justify the means.
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varnull
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7. September 2008 @ 11:07 |
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Originally posted by 2IQ:
TPB is not responsible for what users post. But they should step in and take it down.
Way to go.. one for my "how to contradict yourself in one sentence" award.
They have no responsibility for the content posted.. by the same token they have no responsibility to take it down.
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Senior Member
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7. September 2008 @ 11:16 |
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That's why I said I think they should. But if they don't, so be it. Since they aren't responsible, they don't have to listen to anyone's opinions. And they don't, which is fine.
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Member
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7. September 2008 @ 11:33 |
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WOW seems to be alot of anger on this topic. I wanted to tune in on it a little bit, but not for anger reasons. I for one am proud of Pirate Bay for not taking these pictures away. Now before you post your anger for me please read the entire post....
I believe for the pictures to be out in the openn is totally wrong. And the people that are looking at them and downloading them are rather twisted. I for one will not be searching for these.
But yet there are rotten tomatoes out the that post pictures of autopsys' all the time. Thats the base of several websites.
If Pirate Bay were to take these pictures down it would go against what they are popular for, Standing up against authorities, wheter it be the RIAA, MPAA, some father that is upset cause his kids died and somebody leaked his childrens photos to the masses.
If P.B. were to take these down it would prove that people can stop them from allowing the puplic information. Although these were and should be kept private, some idiot released them.
Do I believe these pictues are wrong...yes
Do I believe that P.B. should take these away from people...no
It would be censorship.
Theres a talk show host (shock Jock) here that has had a great quote, which he probly stole from an other.
"If you don't like what I talk about, change the channel"
If you don't like the pictures, don't download them. Don't censor the sick folk that wanna see them.(at least sick in my opinion)
I hope this all make sense.
LD
* new edit below
If you want censorship, go to a country that is run under communism.
You want morals, join a church (ok well jaded morals)
This is the world, this is reality.
The facts are 2 toddlers died, and had a autopsy some to find the reasons behind their untimely death, pictures were taken, those pictures were released to the internet, people downloaded those pictures.
Who are we to tell people "no those are wrong to look at"
Just because we "view" this as wrong doesn't mean we should keep others from viewing them.
Little of topic, but if history serves me correct.....
It used to be "wrong"
for nudity to be on TV
for murder to be on tv
for porno graphic images to be taken
for certain types of religion to be practiced
for people other then caucasian to do any thing
for presidents to cheat get hummers from ladies other then their wives
for people to smoke
for people to drink
for women to vote
in some countries women still aren't "supposed" to show their faces
These are all things that were at one point "wrong" and socially unacceptable. I truly hope that these pictures never become socially acceptable, but who am I to not "allow" these things.
I mean comon now, theres a store down the road where I can buy salvia, water bongs, glass pipes, and rolling paper. Next door to that I can buy whips, chains, handcuffs, sexual pleaseing devices, lotians, and provacative clothing.
Now years ago (less then 10) this store would have never been allowed, and in some cities it still isn't.
How does this relate??????
CENSORSHIP
Don't allow it and will not support any sort of censorship.
What about the kids you ask.
As a parent I am in full control of what my daughter does, and see's.
She only watches T.V. in the family room.
I know all of her friends and have personally visited every one of the houses she ever goes to.
So don't try to use that excuss either.
It's our job as parents to watch and care for OUR children.
Not everybody elses
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. September 2008 @ 11:53
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