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The Pirate Bay is under fire again
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The following comments relate to this news article:
article published on 6 September, 2008
The infamous torrent tracker The Pirate Bay is back in the news today, this time for refusing to take down a user-uploaded torrent that includes autopsy pictures of two toddlers that were murdered in Arboga earlier this year.
The photos are part of a larger collection of material that came from a police investigation into the case.
Niklas Jangestig, the father of the murdered children, ... [ read the full article ]
Please read the original article before posting your comments.
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Senior Member
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7. September 2008 @ 12:51 |
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Why would anyone upload those kinds of pics to a torrent tracker anyway?
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AfterDawn Addict
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7. September 2008 @ 13:07 |
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They have no responsibility for the content posted.. by the same token they have no responsibility to take it down.
Then why do they remove child porn?
You know, I'm not going to read everything that people have had to say, but in my opinion, this is not a matter of censorship, legality, nor a conflict with TPB's policy of not removing content (when it suits them), but a matter of respect which the whole e-party involved has not shown.
The documents involved, including the photos, are freely available via Swedish police, as set down by Swedish law (or so I understand it). For them to be openly available on one of [if not the] largest public trackers is another matter completely, showing a complete lack of respect for those involved outside of the geared up "free the internet, content sharing FTW" junkies. Furthermore, for Sunde to show such stubbornness, not even replying with a sense of courtesy and explaining their stance on the situation (bar the disgruntled statement issued on their blog), he has lost all credibility where I am concerned. And after all, this is the internet; it's not like if I don't look hard enough I couldn't find the files elsewhere by now.
On the other side of the e-coin, and how a friend of mine so lovingly put it, we do not live in a cotton wool covered world and sh@t like this happens every day (and most likely on a larger scale too) so my personal feelings towards the individuals involved are null and void, I just think that the complete lack of compassion shown by parties involved is below par, on this particular occasion.
Feel free to rip me a new one!
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I will report the next dickhead who tries to make things personal.
*Ducks for cover!* :D
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. September 2008 @ 13:31
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Solo_Tek
Junior Member
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7. September 2008 @ 13:25 |
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Still not proven in any way.
Just more name calling and unintelligent babble.
Prove your point.
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P.S. Learn to support and back up your facts before you act in this manner.
I have prick.. I have sought out the Sewdish laws and quotes on TPB (where I am a member BTW.. unlike 99% of the other people posting in this topic.
ALL this information is available from the Swedish authorities for a small fee to cover printing and postage. All that is happening here is the information is being distributed in a more accessible way.
Now about your irrelevant misquoting of laws.. Those only apply to THE LIVING who may be harmed by disclosure of information. The dead have no such rights.
You think we should allow a free for all abuse session?.. I suggest "junior member" YOU check your facts before you try to correct and censor your elders and seniors!
Whay about the videos there of American soldiers being beheaded, or saddam hussiens execution?? not a whimper.. some pictures and an autopsy report and all hell breaks lose.. get some perspective n00bs.. this is the real world and it may not be what you like it to be.. but it is what we have.
According to certain people only the views THEY hold are valid.. any other opinion brands somebody a sicko.. Enjoy your big brother religion/bigot/politician/newspaper/mob and big business run world you are creating.. You don't own me f--kers.. and you aren't going to change my opinions by abusing me.. I will report the next dickhead who tries to make things personal.
YOU DON'T LIKE THE CONTENT THEN DON'T LOOK AT IT... end of story.. This stuff mey not be tasteful, but it is not illegal. TPB are perfectly right to keep it up there.. censor one legal thing and where next.. everything that MAY offend somebody?
You can stick your USA laws right where the sun don't shine, because they are not relevant in a global context.. They are not relevant when it comes to this subject. USA does not own the internet or the world just yet!! asnd we are so glad it doesn't because we would only get sanitised church approves crap if it did!
A little point about true freedom..
Freedom means the right to make your own choices
Freedom means the right to make your own dicisions
freedom means the right to hold your own views
Freedom means the right to speak your mind without the fear of reprisals from do gooders and repressive bigots who come touting laws and restrictions.
Freedom means the right to look at, or not look at anything you choose.
Freedom means the right to access the information you want to make those choices and form those opinions.
Freedom involves responsibility and understanding that you will see things you may not like along with the things you do.
Freedom means you do not have the right to say what should and should not be available. It means that you treat people with the respect you would hope to receive as a free thinking adult capable of making your own decisions.
This is about a lot more than a few pictures.. it is a sign of the general decline into sheep that is being fostered by the state controlled media across the world.. You people need to learn to think for yourselves before shouting down and attacking people who understand the responsibilities which come with freedom.
Remember this.. Under the laws of every country I know it is impossible to invade the privacy of, slander or libel the dead.
I will support TPB over any kid trying to sound big on afterdawn because they are a force for freedom, whereas the censors and the "take it down" ranters are a force for compliance with those who would restrict and refuse access to public domain information..
You people make me sick. You are the same mob who don't like to hear your soldiers are getting their asses kicked in Afghanistan because of inadequate leadership and equipment. Would you like that information suppressed too? How about taking all the names off war memorials while we are at it..
You can find out all about the dead.. some countries try to make money out of information about the deceased since 1970.. but really as information about the dead from before that date is freely available that also is wrong. Public documents are public documents.. live with it.
This is my last comment on the matter.. I will leave it to you ranters and censors to carry on with your wailing and head holding now....
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AfterDawn Addict
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7. September 2008 @ 13:37 |
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Still not proven in any way.
Just more name calling and unintelligent babble.
Prove your point.
It's posts like this that have nothing to add; stop bouncing off other people!
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H08
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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7. September 2008 @ 14:30 |
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you know im getting really tired of viewing articles about the MPAA or The Pirate Bay Because I know varmull will be there posting some comment on how Its Great That The Pirate Bay Allows Pictures Of Dead Kids on There Site or How Bad The MPAA IS For Suing Somebody.
Varmull Please Stop, your Reminding Me Of The Guy who Went Crazy on blu-ray and Sony Articles and got suspended from doing it.
Ohh And Any Human Being That Has A Heart Would Understandd Why The Pics Shouldnt Be Up, I Dont Know Why You Would Want To See Some Dead Kids Anyway
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Solo_Tek
Junior Member
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7. September 2008 @ 15:17 |
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Why don't you read all the post and see that I was going back and forth with this person who posted.
So why don't you stop with your BS and read all the post and give some form of input that has to do with the topic.
See no one person in here can prove that the dead do not have these rights in Sweden. Only mindless babble and complaints.
I on the other hand provided viable information from Sweden and an official website.
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Still not proven in any way.
Just more name calling and unintelligent babble.
Prove your point.
It's posts like this that have nothing to add; stop bouncing off other people!
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AfterDawn Addict
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7. September 2008 @ 15:31 |
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Sure thing Jackass! Or, why don't you try reading my post and see which side of the fence I'm on?
I guess that won't change the fact that I'm anti post-tards.
~ Typo Edit ~
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. September 2008 @ 15:32
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Solo_Tek
Junior Member
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7. September 2008 @ 15:50 |
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Is it me our an I dealing with the most unintelligent person in the world.
Name calling, WoW , I feel like I am back on the play ground in grade school.
Speaking of school why don't you go back and learn something and how to support your answers and have arguments and discussions in an intelligent manner.
So I bid you a good day sir/madame and hope that some day you grow out of the childish name calling and can talk in a civil manner.
Originally posted by Ripper:
Sure thing Jackass! Or, why don't you try reading my post and see which side of the fence I'm on?
I guess that won't change the fact that I'm anti post-tards.
~ Typo Edit ~
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. September 2008 @ 15:52
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AfterDawn Addict
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7. September 2008 @ 16:03 |
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Are you kidding me?
Was I wrong to presume that because you were arguing with varnull that you had conflicting views with her? And that my views may coincide with yours, hence my suggesting you should re-read my post before you accuse me of getting on your back?
Speaking of intelligence, your manner of posting doesn't suggest to me that you are of any superiority over my good self in that area whatsoever.
You really need to find somewhere else to take your insecurities!
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AfterDawn Addict
6 product reviews
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7. September 2008 @ 17:16 |
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ok usually i am all for TPB and its causes but on this matter i tend to agree with the other side. I feel its the pirate bays responsibility to at least police their own internet traffic in a way that they know what gets uploaded to their site and if its appropraite. In my book child porn and murdered pics and things along those lines are truely not what we want to have access to.
Torrent sites are yes for pic files and vids and music etc... but it has to be at least classified as the govt classifys what we see or choose to see with ratings soo we can make an informed choice.
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Member
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7. September 2008 @ 21:12 |
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I ain't no mod.....but....
Lets settle it down. I'd hate to see people get their hands slapped for open discussions. Let's be adult about this.
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Bozobub
Senior Member
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7. September 2008 @ 21:39 |
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By the laws of the country they're in (and in fact, just about every country), THE DAMN TORRENT IS LEGAL.
If you don't like the fact, and you live in Sweden (or whereever TPB has their servers now - lol), then either get on your government's collective asses to change the laws or shut the hell up!
I also think it's tasteless to post the damn autopsies on TPB. So what? I also think Barry Manilow is tasteless, yet I support peoples' rights to listen to his crappy music. "Tasteless" does not equal "illegal".
There are far, far too many torrents posted every day on TPB for anyone to truly vet, even if they wanted to. Now, if someone complains about a specific torrent, and it is shown to be illegal (by their country's laws), guess what? TPB removes the damn torrent! This is why kiddie porn, which is illegal in nearly every country, IS removed, on request and also by the staff when they notice it.
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DRokKer
Newbie
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7. September 2008 @ 22:00 |
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i choose Freedom!
If you dont like it then go back to your cages!
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mfgnet
Newbie
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7. September 2008 @ 22:00 |
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TPB are a bunch of hypocrites. Their shtick on defying the corporate media companies seemed to be their primary cause. But now they are totally defying the wishes of a private citizen which makes TPB a bunch of scum. I wonder whose privacy are TPB going to invade next. I wonder if those pedophiles at TPB are masturbating to those photos. TPB will be irrelevant and three years.
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Bozobub
Senior Member
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7. September 2008 @ 22:14 |
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Um, mfgnet, how does "defying the wishes of a private citizen" make TPB "scum"..? If some "private citizen" wants you to stick your wanker in a meat grinder, are you scum for defying them? They're just applying their principles uniformly, whether it involves public or private entities. Sounds rather impartial and non-hypocritical to me!
As for them being pedophiles, how exactly do you derive that? They remove kiddie porn when notified; can YOU vet thousands upon thousands of torrents each day, especially considering (since they do NOT host the actual data) they'd have to d/l each damn torrent themselves? The answer, in case you're an idiot, is "no".
Apparently you're also not aware that these very same images are publicly available,, for a small fee to cover costs, from the government itself. In other words, it's already in the public domain, AND is legal. If you don't like that, I reiterate: either get active in politics and change the laws in the country it's hosted in, or shut the hell up.
I found your post offensive, but I also am completely commited to your right to both make that post, AND ignore anything I have to say about it; after all, you broke no laws by posting it. Can you say the same? Will you give a crap when the stormtroopers come to MY door because I said or did something uncomplimentary, but legal, about/to the government?! I sincerely doubt it, and governments all over the world LOVE sheeple who are exactly that way.
Edit --> Damn space bar ;p
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. September 2008 @ 22:16
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gsuscrazy
Member
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7. September 2008 @ 22:27 |
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to Varnull
this is my last post on the subject as well, further communication on the matter should be done via private messages., DO NOT misconstrue someones request to take down an item as censorship, and DO NOT misconstrue my statements of comparison as my personal beliefs, I was showing you COMPARATIVE SCENARIOS, you can Google the term if you do not understand it, you have sat here ranting and raving about whats right and wrong, and how everyone opposed to this decision is a Censor and so on, its a point of view, about decency..and if you read what i typed you would have understood my views, and that we are simply not going to support TPB, this is a very common view it seems, so deal with it, the world wont bend to your opinionated argument, it doesn't mean that the earth will stop spinning.
I remember when dinosaurs roamed the land
I remember when thinkin the earth is flat was cool...
but most of all...i remember when the Apple ruled the schools...GO NUMBER MUNCHERS!!!
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fionah
Newbie
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8. September 2008 @ 01:00 |
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how sickening and insensitive. they were CHILDREN, robbed of their innocent lives, which are now being gawped at by idiots who for some reason think it's ok to look at pictures of somebody else's dead children.
sod freedom of speech and all that other immature anarchistic rebel tripe, they are pictures of somebody's DEAD CHILDREN.
grow up and stop living in a dream world.
take the pictures OFF.
i used to think the pirate bay guys were ok and wished the best for them when they got in a fix, but i will boycott the site full stop, and if they get busted, they deserve it for this one.
if that was MY children being distributed via pb, i'd track the idiots down myself and post 'entertaining and informative' pictures of THEIR fate on pb... it wouldn't be pretty...
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. September 2008 @ 01:02
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fionah
Newbie
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8. September 2008 @ 01:07 |
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don't you think the parents have suffered enough??
we cannot comprehend unless we have been there...
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Bozobub
Senior Member
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8. September 2008 @ 01:38 |
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Again, those pictures are already in the public domain, and can be acquired for a nominal fee to cover postage/copying of the material directly from the Swedish government. If you don't believe me, fine. I actually called the Swedish embassy (I live not far from Washington, D.C., so it was a local call), and they verified this FACT for me. You can do the same damn thing, so scream all you like, it's still quite true.
Your rage is wasted; even the Swedish government, apparently, thinks so. In fact, in the US, you can get exactly the same type of information (yes, pictures and all) about most police cases and autopsies, unless they're under intentional media blackout, which happens a lot with cases still under active investigation.
You may find freedom of speech to be "immature anarchistic rebel tripe", and, in fact, you're free to do so. You can thank the Founding Fathers of the US (assuming you're FROM the US - lol; thank whomever if not)for your freedom to do so. They sure as hell didn't seem to find the subject to be "immature" at all!
So, it's not ok for future doctors/police/coroners/etc. - you have NO IDEA who downloads the damn torrent - to look at these pictures, eh? So, it's only ok for them to view the fresh corpses..? You know, by your exact logic, it was irresponsible and immature to show the world pictures of the Nazi atrocities at Buchenwald and Auschwitz, or of the Oklahoma City bombing (yup, they showed pictures of dead children; GASP)! Plenty of dead, innocent babies there, as well; where's your outrage for that?! A little Googling will find ALL of that (and a lot more =/ ), and guess what? It's LEGAL.
I rarely take so much pleasure in throwing a BS line back in someone's face: Grow up and stop living in a dream world.
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susieqbbb
Suspended permanently
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8. September 2008 @ 01:41 |
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Here is what i find funny..
These pictures Are apart of a investigation right. And in police hands right. So then i take it the police would have had to upload the images.
Right???
Stupid Really stupid..
If the cops where the only ones with the images then the police uploaded them.
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Bozobub
Senior Member
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8. September 2008 @ 01:47 |
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Well, actually, the cops (as part of the government in Sweden in general) will give out this information, as required by Swedish law, to ANYONE who pays the required fee(s). It takes a direct court order for them to be allowed to do otherwise!
The logic behind this (assuming the low-level embassy staffer I spoke with wasn't full of poo) is that crimes that are kept secret:
- Are more likely to be repeated, because the public isn't aware of them.
- Tend to hinder police investigations.
- Cost MONEY to keep secret.
The main exception is cases of "national security". It's a bit easier (but not very much so) to stop distribution of similar material in the US...
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fionah
Newbie
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8. September 2008 @ 02:43 |
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ok bozobub, many fair points there; fine, you've obviously put a lot of energy and research into this subject, thank you for taking the time.
as a female with some at least compassion i see it more as a personal case from the parent's point of view, so unfortunately much of what you say is irrelevant to my comment: who downloads this stuff, if it's legal, other places i can get it, that freedom of speech is a very big deal (of course...............). i don't care about that, jesus, i just got home from a ten hour day.
this is not rage. what i feel is disgust at pb's sunde's refusal to the father's plea. and i find it, YES!- immature, anarchistic and childish for him to base that refusal on 'it's not for me to judge what's right or wrong, we stand for freedom of speech'. oh come off it!
i did not mean that freedom of speech is childish anarchaic immature tripe- i wrote those words in a context, quite easy to see. there are trials going on right now in the adult entertainment industry which completely defy 'freedom of speech' etc which i *strongly disagree* with. so i'm all for freedom of 'speech' etc, so long as it doesn't involve a father asking for a torrent of photos of his dead kids to be modified on a site and some dude who is in a position to do that replying 'no, no, and again, no'.
again- if that was my child/ren it would be painful to know that there are many 'idiots'(they come in all walks of life, you know)/'who-e-ver and for whatever reason' looking at pictures of their dead bodies, possibly for decades to come. very creepy, do you NOT think?
but as you say; shock horror! pictures of dead children have existed for a long time already. so it's OK!
as i said, grow up and take the picture/s OFF.
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Bozobub
Senior Member
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8. September 2008 @ 03:12 |
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No, I don't say it's "ok", not in the way you mean. I also do say that you, and in fact NOONE, has the right to say it's NOT "ok" for TPB to follow the law in their own country. Again, you might as well rail at the Swedish government, or the US government, for that matter, for allowing exposure of this type of material to their respective public(s). You won't get anywhere; this is a very old argument, indeed.
Don't you see? It's those very photos of Nazi evil, the Oklahoma City bombing, the victims of Hiroshima/Nagasaki, and so on ad nauseam that MUST be seen! Hell, no, the events they show aren't ok, but showing the world what happened is not only "ok", it's damn well necessary. Similar arguments, in fact, have been raised against exposure of all of my examples: "It's too painful for the victims and/or their families", or "Only perverts/sadists/fill-in-the-psychosis-here would look at this material", and just about all the other arguments against the pictures' distribution I've seen here.
Ignoring evil never, ever, EVER makes it go away, but people always seem to insist on trying. You have to learn from it, so it doesn't happen again!
As for the father's pain, well, damn, that's got to be well-nigh unbearable. But guess what? I've also seen parents who WANTED this type of material to be seen - MADD is a great example - to hopefully teach the public-at-large more about their pain, and possibly to get them to avoid it themselves. Are THEY wrong for doing so? Were they perverts or evil sadists, to show me those rather sickening photos of dead children, mangled in car wrecks..? I may question their methods (I sure did at the time o.o ) but I do NOT question their motives.
In response to an earlier post: I wouldn't LIKE seeing pictures of my dead children, parents, or any other relative(s) posted in such a way at all, but I also put my money where my mouth is: I WILL NOT ABRIDGE LEGAL SPEECH, PERIOD, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT CAN POSSIBLY SERVE A USEFUL PURPOSE FOR SOCIETY. If a picture of my mom after an autopsy helps ONE other person, it's damn well worth it. If some other creepy f*ck gets off on it at the same time, well, there's people who get off on mud, poo, animals, shoes, dead people, and just about everything else known to Man... That doesn't make the information itself "evil" or "bad". If it IS bad, then SHOES are bad, and mud, and so on. It's not the information, it's what you do with it.
And how the hell would you know someone viewing the content was so perverse anyway? Worrying about the mere possibility is pretty damn futile. It's also possible I might be hit in the head by a meteor in the next 5 minutes! Nothing I can do about that either. >.>
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Solo_Tek
Junior Member
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8. September 2008 @ 03:54 |
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This just came to mind.
It have been proven to me now that it is legal to obtain this information. And it must be obtained with a small fee and through the proper government channels. So I am now dumbfounded at how this information is not being removed since it would be illegal for anyone to now download those pictures and posses them without going through the proper government channels to obtain them.
So now we have a different situation.
Someone has bought the photos through the proper channel and has now posted them in a torrent for others to download and not properly pay for the photos through the correct government channels. Deeming the photos being downloaded Illegal.
Am I wrong?
Am I right?
A whole new set of issues.
"for a small fee to cover costs, from the government itself. "
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Bozobub
Senior Member
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8. September 2008 @ 04:13 |
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*Snort* Completely wrong. The information, again, is in the public domain. The fee the Swedish government charges is merely to cover copying and postage, nothing more. You ARE NOT "buying" the information, just the service that supplies it.
A good comparison is the procedure every city/town hall in the US uses: For all information they contain, they charge a small fee - to cover administrative expenses - to supply you a copy, even though it ALL is in the public domain. This is true of real estate information (who owns which plat, and suchlike), utility runs for construction companies (so they don't dig up a water line, say), copies of books from the city's law library (to determine municipal code) and so on. Re-publishing such information on your own dime is quite legal, hence the term "public domain". You can't copyright arrest records, land plats, utility runs, census data, or anything of the sort, for many excellent reasons.
In fact, just about everything produced by the US government - in this case, I'm reasonably certain but not sure Swedish law is completely congruent, I didn't ask this question specifically - that isn't labelled "Secret" or above, under executive privelege, or certain other very specific cases, is public domain. That's exactly what the Freedom of Information Act is all about (for the US)! This is more or less true of most reasonably democratic societies around the world.
Need another example? The Congressional Record is not only gigantic and unwieldy (and expensive as hell), it's also completely legal to re-publish any or all of it in whatever format you desire. If it wasn't it would be illegal to retransmit anything any Congresscritter said while in session, considering it's recorded in the Congressional Record!
Edit --> Rogue "is" - lol.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. September 2008 @ 04:41
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