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Blu-ray is a bag of hurt, says Apple
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The following comments relate to this news article:
article published on 15 October, 2008
Apple CEO Steve Jobs has confirmed that the company will not be bringing Blu-ray drives to its Mac laptops any time soon, or at least until "things settle down."
"Blu-ray is just a bag of hurt," stated Jobs. "It's great to watch the movies, but the licensing of the tech is so complex, we're waiting till things settle down and Blu-ray takes off in the marketplace."
Because the licenses ... [ read the full article ]
Please read the original article before posting your comments.
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Mez
AfterDawn Addict
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17. October 2008 @ 07:29 |
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It is the same old game. Apple did not get the deal they wanted because they were too small. Sony is trying to fire up interest, and force Apple do do it the Sony way. Apple is fighting back claiming their lawyers are retards. I agree with Apple. Their users will believe Apple HD technology is better/more cool than Sony's. Apple users are believers they really do not want to think.
I could only hope a war starts up between those two arrogant low lifes.
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uruz7
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21. October 2008 @ 01:59 |
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That's OK!But take a closer look following link,It's great to DVD and PSP converter
spam removed
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 21. October 2008 @ 08:28
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ematrix
Junior Member
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22. October 2008 @ 04:02 |
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I hope this has thought Apple to think twice before supporting anything developed (or co-developed) by Sony... I mean, if indeed Apple had any interest in incorporating Blu-ray on their products, at least Sony should have given them a good deal, as appreation for their loyalty and support during the HD format war; in the other hand maybe Apple thinks that BD isn't worth it after all.
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Mez
AfterDawn Addict
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22. October 2008 @ 08:35 |
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ematrix, I believe your view is pretty naive. That is true if you think Apple was taken advantage of by big evil Sony. Apple was playing the field they were supporting both platforms. I am sure they can do OK without Blu-Ray otherwise they would not be dragging their feet. Sony has figured that out but they don?t want to give them a deal they would like. They want Apple to eat a little dirt for not supporting them from the beginning. Apple doesn?t see it that way.
It is just a pissing match between two unethical weasel companies.
It is just business as usual.
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varnull
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22. October 2008 @ 10:42 |
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Just a quick FYI.. os-x or leopard or whatever they are calling it isn't linux.. It;s closed source proprietary unix.. more closely related to BSD than linux.. apple could have the technology to adopt the format, but they just greedy as per.. Same as the others in this "4 years left on the format" disk system.
Apple don't support open source and open standards.. like M$ they want to sell you their product and make it damn hard to use anything they don't "approve of" with it.. to the exclusion of everybody who doesn't pay to be in the club..
blu-ray will fizzle out into the corner with dvd-audio.. apple will continue to nibble away at the M$ user base by selling an alternative to M$ "cool" lifestyle to those who can afford it, and the rest of us will carry on in open source world not giving two damns about any of it unless it infringes on our rights.. and then we will bite.
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Mez
AfterDawn Addict
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22. October 2008 @ 14:02 |
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varnull, I heard from an unrelyable source that Vista used a monfied linux kernal. Is there any truth to that?
Vista has done more for the Mac than anything Apple has done. For me if I was to make the plunge, I would go all the way instead of trusting some hacked code.
I am happy with Open Office. That takes care of many concerns with most of my day to day issues. For my simple needs, I find it far superior to Office 2007. Unfortunatly, my main source of income runs only on a M$ platform. However, my normal day to day activities can work under Linux.
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varnull
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22. October 2008 @ 14:25 |
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I feel that.. I'm lucky that my work can all be done on linux/unix.
Vista doesn't use linux.. it's an NT 6.0.6000 or 6001 kernel depending on service pack. Nothing new there then. Monolithic architecture where the future path of everything else seems to be going modular microkernel architecture. Same old NT flaws and bugs.. As usual M$ are about 5 years behind the chase.. and wouldn't know how to cut to it if we put a bomb under them.. I think people see vista as linux like is because of the messed up permissions they seem to have blatantly stolen (and messed up) from OpenBSD.. Again.. nothing new there. I don't think M$ have ever actually had an original idea.. It all existed before you see it as a "new" feature of some M$ software. I remember a GUI desktop system when I was at school.. Xerox office system or something.. had a mouse and drop down menus and icons.. Like cbm/amiga. Even had the little engine animation when something was happening...
I love OO.. especially Impress (and boy does it impress when you use it after powerpoint).. add a couple more things.. like scribus and abiword and the need for M$ starts to fade.
I set up machines running xp for people now containing completely open source freeware.. and very rarely do they "need" a lump of M$ software..
Fista has been great for us so far.. average fista hardware will run linux heavies like sabayon without a flutter.. as long as the hardware manufacturers haven't been "got at" to lock the bios to fista.. as we are starting to see with some laptops.. expect class action lawsuits from the fsf sometime in the future over that little bombshell.
It's about education.. I install a new linux machine for somebody and the first thing I tell them is.. "This is a computer.. here is the on button".. and ten point out that the first time they saw a computer it was probably running windows nursemaid and it was all strange and unfamiliar.. It's only a habit using windows and finding it easy.. as you know.. it's actually the other way round.. linux is easy and sleek and windows is slow clunky, feels like something from the 90's (which of course it is) and really hard work.
Actually vista really reminds me of the early os2 ..like BeOS in the 80's.. GUI implementations.. all over the place and buggy .. not forgetting it was also a permissions nightmare.. I don't know why anybody would buy it.. It's not good enough for a free OS.. If it was open source freeware it would probably have about 50 hardcore experimentalists using it... rather like Kororaa, Feather and SkyOS.. It certainly wouldn't be seen as good enough by the larger open source community and would fail.
Whatever.. all these M$ machines keep me in a job, so I mustn't complain too much or everybody will be using linux and not needing my services. There isn't enough work in the unix server world to keep food on the table with all the businesses folding around here. Lost another regular this month.. waremart.. I wanted their database server..
a tasty real sun systems 8 cpu solaris machine.. but the bailiffs had it.. drat.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 22. October 2008 @ 14:40
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ematrix
Junior Member
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22. October 2008 @ 14:35 |
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Originally posted by Mez:
ematrix, I believe your view is pretty naive. That is true if you think Apple was taken advantage of by big evil Sony. Apple was playing the field they were supporting both platforms. I am sure they can do OK without Blu-Ray otherwise they would not be dragging their feet. Sony has figured that out but they don?t want to give them a deal they would like. They want Apple to eat a little dirt for not supporting them from the beginning. Apple doesn?t see it that way.
It is just a pissing match between two unethical weasel companies.
It is just business as usual.
Apple was playing the field they were supporting both platforms?Apple should eat a little dirt for not supporting Blu-ray from the beginning? Now that's wrong, when in fact Apple did supported only Blu-ray since 2005; and since then they're part of the BDA and did participate in the promotion and marketing of the format.
Maybe Apple's initial commitment meant to eventually replace SuperDrives with Blu-Ray drives, and that Mac OS X?s optical media support would include Blu-Ray but not HD-DVD, etc. But either Apple at one point thought that BD wasn't worth it after all and rather support their own products, or Sony didn't offered them a good deal to begin with; either way no Blu-ray for Apple, thanks.
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varnull
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22. October 2008 @ 14:43 |
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Maybe they think by the time they tool up and buy the licenses for the software and drm it will be an obsolete format anyway?
That would make sense. I'm pretty sure apple have a better insight into what's coming next than we do.
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pmshah
Member
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22. October 2008 @ 14:47 |
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Originally posted by varnull:
Just a quick FYI.. os-x or leopard or whatever they are calling it isn't linux.. It;s closed source proprietary unix.. more closely related to BSD than linux.. apple could have the technology to adopt the format, but they just greedy as per.. Same as the others in this "4 years left on the format" disk system.
Apple don't support open source and open standards.. like M$ they want to sell you their product and make it damn hard to use anything they don't "approve of" with it.. to the exclusion of everybody who doesn't pay to be in the club..
blu-ray will fizzle out into the corner with dvd-audio.. apple will continue to nibble away at the M$ user base by selling an alternative to M$ "cool" lifestyle to those who can afford it, and the rest of us will carry on in open source world not giving two damns about any of it unless it infringes on our rights.. and then we will bite.
In my view they have gone the BSD way simply because there is o requirement to make the derivatives Open Source also as in Linux. It is BSD - not sure Open or Free - with their own GUI. I have seen n number of magazine articles aimed at die hard Mac users on how to fix the glitches in the initial release of OS X with command line usage.
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Senior Member
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23. October 2008 @ 05:59 |
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Originally posted by varnull:
Maybe they think by the time they tool up and buy the licenses for the software and drm it will be an obsolete format anyway?
That would make sense. I'm pretty sure apple have a better insight into what's coming next than we do.
Maybe Apple do- I've always had the impression that they are great at hype more than anything else nowadays.
Varnull, I must say your posts are always excellent. I must admit I personally haven't found Linux necessarily "easy and sleek" as I have to use peculiar command line interfacing on a regular basis like the DOS days. It seems like you have to be a bit of a boffin to get the best out of it. I could learn it but I just can't be stuffed. Consequently I've stuck with tweaked XP which runs my software, tv tunercard, Nvidia GFx card, games etc. ok. Can you recommend a version of Linux to experiment with- I've heard some are as top-heavy as tweaked XP anyway. Questions- will Linux run OO and Gimp faster? Can I find a program to run my HDTV tuner card on Linux?
Back on subject, a lot of this DRM stuff that's talked about confuses me. I recently built a comp with a BluRay/HD-DVD drive and HDMI out to a 1080p setup. Using tweaked XP it seems to be working fine, by the judicious use of four programs I'm even able to play recorded HD movies off of the raid array. Is some invisible switch gonna be thrown in the future which will cause all this (and the HDTV card) to come crashing down? (I know I'm a big noob :P ).
Its a lot easier being righteous than right.
DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. October 2008 @ 10:31
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error5
Senior Member
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23. October 2008 @ 08:18 |
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Originally posted by Jemborg:
Back on subject, a lot of this DRM stuff that's talked about confuses me. I recently built a comp with a BluRay/HD-DVD drive and HDMI out to a 1080p setup. Using tweaked XP it seems to be working fine, by the judicious use of four programs I'm even able to play recorded HD movies off of the raid array. Is some invisible switch gonna be thrown in the future which will cause all this (and the HDTV card) to come crashing down? (I know I'm a big noob :P ).
I have a similar setup with a BD writer/HD DVD reader. As long as you have a certain well-known program from Slysoft and you keep it updated you should have no worries.
I think Apple's problem lies with HDCP. None of their hardware - graphics cards and apple cinema displays - have any HDCP certification. It's HDCP that they don't want to implement in their Macs.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. October 2008 @ 08:40
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Senior Member
4 product reviews
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23. October 2008 @ 10:58 |
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If Its HDCP. good I hate that BS of an Intel Trick.
Dumbest mistake ever on Intel's part.
Powered By
 This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. October 2008 @ 11:04
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Senior Member
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23. October 2008 @ 15:00 |
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Originally posted by error5:
Originally posted by Jemborg:
Back on subject, a lot of this DRM stuff that's talked about confuses me. I recently built a comp with a BluRay/HD-DVD drive and HDMI out to a 1080p setup. Using tweaked XP it seems to be working fine, by the judicious use of four programs I'm even able to play recorded HD movies off of the raid array. Is some invisible switch gonna be thrown in the future which will cause all this (and the HDTV card) to come crashing down? (I know I'm a big noob :P ).
I have a similar setup with a BD writer/HD DVD reader. As long as you have a certain well-known program from Slysoft and you keep it updated you should have no worries.
I think Apple's problem lies with HDCP. None of their hardware - graphics cards and apple cinema displays - have any HDCP certification. It's HDCP that they don't want to implement in their Macs.
Thanks error5, I know what you referring to. Well, I guess that's some sort of relief. Nice to have a burner, I'm waiting till the whole shebang- units and blanks- get cheaper myself. After referencing your second paragraph I'm glad I got a HDMI out card.
Cheers.
Its a lot easier being righteous than right.
DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD
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juankerr
Member
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23. October 2008 @ 15:24 |
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Originally posted by error5:
I have a similar setup with a BD writer/HD DVD reader. As long as you have a certain well-known program from Slysoft and you keep it updated you should have no worries.
I think Apple's problem lies with HDCP. None of their hardware - graphics cards and apple cinema displays - have any HDCP certification. It's HDCP that they don't want to implement in their Macs.
...and without HDCP there is no BluRay playback. Therein lies the problem.
There is a workaround though as a friend of mine demonstrated recently:
He runs the aforementioned Slysoft application in BootCamp. He can play BD movies using Power DVD off an external BD drive hooked up to his Mac Pro.
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Senior Member
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23. October 2008 @ 17:02 |
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Originally posted by Jemborg:
Originally posted by error5:
Originally posted by Jemborg:
Back on subject, a lot of this DRM stuff that's talked about confuses me. I recently built a comp with a BluRay/HD-DVD drive and HDMI out to a 1080p setup. Using tweaked XP it seems to be working fine, by the judicious use of four programs I'm even able to play recorded HD movies off of the raid array. Is some invisible switch gonna be thrown in the future which will cause all this (and the HDTV card) to come crashing down? (I know I'm a big noob :P ).
I have a similar setup with a BD writer/HD DVD reader. As long as you have a certain well-known program from Slysoft and you keep it updated you should have no worries.
I think Apple's problem lies with HDCP. None of their hardware - graphics cards and apple cinema displays - have any HDCP certification. It's HDCP that they don't want to implement in their Macs.
Thanks error5, I know what you referring to. Well, I guess that's some sort of relief. Nice to have a burner, I'm waiting till the whole shebang- units and blanks- get cheaper myself. After referencing your second paragraph I'm glad I got a HDMI out card.
Cheers.
!!!!! HANG ON !!!!!
I built my above rig using the reliable Gigabyte GA-G33M-DS2R mATX. Is it possible that the onboard sound is not HDCP certified ??
Does this explain why I was only able to get DD ProLogicII out of the coax into the amp when playing HD movies ?? (Admittedly it seems to be better quality than DVD PLII)
The above mentioned SlySoft application seemed fix this. I've got DTS now on "Jumper"- it auto selected. Would this be what happened?
Please, if you know the answer let me know- I would be in your debt.
Its a lot easier being righteous than right.
DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD
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error5
Senior Member
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23. October 2008 @ 20:54 |
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Originally posted by Jemborg:
!!!!! HANG ON !!!!!
I built my above rig using the reliable Gigabyte GA-G33M-DS2R mATX. Is it possible that the onboard sound is not HDCP certified ??
Does this explain why I was only able to get DD ProLogicII out of the coax into the amp when playing HD movies ?? (Admittedly it seems to be better quality than DVD PLII)
The above mentioned SlySoft application seemed fix this. I've got DTS now on "Jumper"- it auto selected. Would this be what happened?
Please, if you know the answer let me know- I would be in your debt.
The reason why you got the Jumper DTS soundtrack (instead of DD) on the coax connection is this: the Jumper BluRay release doesn't have an English Dolby Digital/DD+/DD True HD soundtrack. It has a DTS HD Master Audio soundtrack. You got the "Core" DTS track that's embedded in the DTS HD MA track.
Sorry but it had nothing to do with Slysoft or bypassing HDCP.
In order to get the high-def advanced audio on a PC setup your choices are very limited at this time. Remember that you will need an HDMI connection to your receiver to get Dolby True HD or DTS HD Master Audio. You won't get these from a digital coax or SPDIF connection.
According to anandtech.com no GPU released this year will support advanced audio. The only way is an HDMI sound card like the Auzentech X-Tension. Basically you connect the HDMI output from your video card to the HDMI input of the X-Tension. The HDMI output of the X-Tension carries both 1080p video and advanced audio to your receiver. The anandtech article explains this very well.
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3411
A card with one single HDMI output that has both advanced audio on a Protected Audio Path and HDCP 1080p video will be the last piece of the HD HTPC puzzle.
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Senior Member
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24. October 2008 @ 06:01 |
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Many many thanks error5, just a quick reply for now as I'm tired atm and only just had a chance to skim the info.
I only have a 5.1 receiver and am not really prepared for the expense of the whole 7.1 extra speakers new receiver blah blah blah and I have been really quite happy with my setup as it is.
I would be happy to stay with 5.1 but I'm not too keen on having to default to DD PrologicII.
The Gigabyte GA-G33M-DS2R mATX onboard's sound is a Realtek High Definition Audio device (capable of 7.1), on the box it claims "Blu-ray/HD-DVD Full Rate Lossless Audio". So in conjunction with Cyberlink software I might just go analogue to the receiver. it has an excellent s/n ratio as it is. Chatting to my nephew a while ago, who works in audio chip design, this seems to be a quite reasonable proposition- he just said I might be better off using the analogue outputs (now I suspect why).
Please let me know what you reckon- I'll keep you informed of what transpires if you want.
Thanks again , regards.
Its a lot easier being righteous than right.
DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 24. October 2008 @ 06:02
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error5
Senior Member
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24. October 2008 @ 09:12 |
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Originally posted by Jemborg:
The Gigabyte GA-G33M-DS2R mATX onboard's sound is a Realtek High Definition Audio device (capable of 7.1), on the box it claims "Blu-ray/HD-DVD Full Rate Lossless Audio". So in conjunction with Cyberlink software I might just go analogue to the receiver. it has an excellent s/n ratio as it is. Chatting to my nephew a while ago, who works in audio chip design, this seems to be a quite reasonable proposition- he just said I might be better off using the analogue outputs (now I suspect why).
Please let me know what you reckon- I'll keep you informed of what transpires if you want.
Thanks again , regards.
From what I've read the analog connections should do just fine but the audio is downsampled to 16-bit/48KHz (from the full bitrate ~ 24-bit/192KHz). I would check with Realtek and to see if they've fixed the downsampling issue with new firmware.
In the end it may not even matter as the downsampled audio can sound really good depending on your setup.
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Senior Member
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24. October 2008 @ 17:42 |
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Cheers error5, that's good news- and advice.
Gigabyte is good with updates but only had the R2.00 ver, the Realtek site had R2.07 ver- only 2 weeks old.
Both are very recent and I wonder if it connects with this at all:
http://www.cyberlink.com/eng/press_room/view_1725.html
and:
http://www.cyberlink.com/eng/press_room/view_1746.html
Not quite sure if it will translate to the analogue audio outputs...yet. Hopefully.
With a pair of decent comp speakers added for the sides I may achieve 7.1 after all! And at a tiny fraction of the cost the cartel expects me to pay for it. LOL.
Well, I have to go off and make/buy some cables now. It's a busy week in many respects. I hope you get email notification as I will post the results here in the next week or so.
Regards.
Its a lot easier being righteous than right.
DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD
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Senior Member
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27. October 2008 @ 11:14 |
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So the invisible switch thrown. Even updating Power DVD, using a rented movie and Cyberlink's own check program saying everything is in the green... some new movies are failing to run. This seems because the whole HDCP DRM system is stuffed and even they can't get it to work properly.
That Slysoft app has to be used regardless I've found.
Still... WITH a Blu-ray in the drive run PowerDVD, load movie, go to configuration, under audio tab select "SPDIF", then under that select "DTS remix" (or 5.1) - hey presto DTS out the coax, regardless of whether it's recorded in HD Dolby or whatever.
Audio is coming out at 48Khz. But sounds great. Receiver doesn't seem to decode any higher rate anyway.
Its a lot easier being righteous than right.
DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. October 2008 @ 11:15
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juankerr
Member
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27. October 2008 @ 11:35 |
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Originally posted by Jemborg:
So the invisible switch thrown. Even updating Power DVD, using a rented movie and Cyberlink's own check program saying everything is in the green... some new movies are failing to run. This seems because the whole HDCP DRM system is stuffed and even they can't get it to work properly.
That Slysoft app has to be used regardless I've found.
Still... WITH a Blu-ray in the drive run PowerDVD, load movie, go to configuration, under audio tab select "SPDIF", then under that select "DTS remix" (or 5.1) - hey presto DTS out the coax, regardless of whether it's recorded in HD Dolby or whatever.
Audio is coming out at 48Khz. But sounds great. Receiver doesn't seem to decode any higher rate anyway.
I know of some people who have totally abandoned Cyberlink in favor of ArcSoft's Total Media Theater:
http://www.arcsoft.com/products/totalmediatheatre/
Read the HTPC/BD Playback threads on avsforums.com.
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27. October 2008 @ 12:01 |
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Thanks man !!
I was wondering about the alternatives.
Its a lot easier being righteous than right.
DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. October 2008 @ 12:07
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varnull
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27. October 2008 @ 13:41 |
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The switches are there in fista and xp sp3 just waiting for the nod from Hollywood. Some OEM releases have had the switches thrown already..I suspect to see if the customers notice and make a fuss.
Particularly watch for topics about fista suddenly stopping doing things it was totally happy to do before a manufacturers/retailers update. SP1 doesn't seem to be the culprit.. To my knowledge (machines I have set up before update then had to roll back afterwards) so far HP and Acer have applied the switch .. hp it seems across the board, and acer only on certain laptop models..( I only have a total of about 12 fista machines to go on.. I don't support the $hit!) Watch them.. DRM applied after purchase is a disgrace.
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juankerr
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27. October 2008 @ 14:01 |
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The playback issues on HTPC's are usually related to player software bugs. From the posts on avsforums I get the impression that there are much less playback issues with ArcSoft TMT (compared to Cyberlink PDVD). As long as you have SlySoft running in the background most people using TMT report very few problems playing actual discs, rips and ISO's. Plus TMT integrates seamlessly into MCE 5.
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