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The truth about RIAA lawsuits: a look at the Joel Tenenbaum case
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The following comments relate to this news article:
article published on 24 January, 2009
In 2007 Joel Tenenbaum joined tens of thousands of defendants accused by the RIAA of violating their members' copyrights by sharing files using a P2P file sharing service. But unlike the vast majority of the defendants in these cases he chose to fight rather than settle. Even more remarkably he opted to represent himself in court against an entire team of high priced lawyers.
Sometimes ... [ read the full article ]
Please read the original article before posting your comments.
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gerbs
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25. January 2009 @ 19:25 |
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Well, I must admit that most of what you say about or society is true. However, I do not believe that humanity has evolved to the point where anarchism will succeed. Same problem as communism. The forces of greed are too strong and until this is purged there will always be struggle. Revolution-YES! Viva Che!
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Moderator
16 product reviews
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25. January 2009 @ 19:44 |
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Vurbal is right here people. This topic and others may have SOME form of political tie in but keep it clean and not OPINIONATED in it's base about something directly (if understood in it's meaning). Just read rule #15 if you have any questions
Quote:
This has been stated many, many times, but lets repeat it in a sticky, so no more people will get banned for not understanding.
15. Political threads, as long as they don't relate to digital multimedia or legislation related to the IT world, are not allowed on this forum. The world is full of political forums where you can vent your opinions, we don't want them here. I rather prefer that this is a forum where a person from country X can ask a question and get an answer to it from a person from country Y, whether the country X and Y are in war or not.
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AfterDawn Addict
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25. January 2009 @ 19:51 |
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Originally posted by gerbs:
Well, I must admit that most of what you say about or society is true. However, I do not believe that humanity has evolved to the point where anarchism will succeed. Same problem as communism. The forces of greed are too strong and until this is purged there will always be struggle. Revolution-YES! Viva Che!
Anarchism is just a mid point between standardized points of society, communism will never work in large scale settings because it always falls into authoritative states that tend to be abusive and stagnate.
Capitalism merely uses the masses own ignorance,arrogance and own self interest to further noble classes once humanity matures more we will have a more egalitarian society based on skill first and foremost who owns the most secondly.
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.
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25. January 2009 @ 19:53 |
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Originally posted by conebob:
Well down here in Australia the Record industry idiots want the goverment to bring in one of two laws.
(1) All ISP's to charge $10 a month to all users to cover illegal downloads.."Not fair on the people who dont download"
(2) All ISP's to block music or movie downloads unless from a paid site.."Even more stupid..censorship at its best"
It wont happen the ISP's know what side their breads buttered on.
What really gets me is you have a movie company that makes a big movie. On the first week of release it makes 4 times the production cost. Then after a few months it goes to DVD for which we pay $24/$30 here in Australia. Now apart from being a year old by the time it hits the shelf here, why would I pay $30 just to watch a picture one time? If I go to hire it, it still costs $7.00 for a new release where I live. Music CD's sell for $25.00 here as well.
Yet I can download a movie from the net "For my own viewing pleasure" before it even gets to the cinema here in Aus for only the cost of my internet conection.
Do I feel sorry for the actors who are not getting my money? NO!
Do I feel sorry for all the middle men who are not getting my money?..NO!
Why? Because they are overpriced..Sell DVD's for $10.00 and Music CD's for $5.00 and I may start buying them again.
Cheers
Especially when CD's & DVD blanks are as cheap as chips ie 50c - $1.00AUD and the big companies produce copies in such large volumes the cost would be nowhere near $30.00 each for a DVD Movie unless the people with the Movie rights are extorting royalties from the big manufacturers of these DVD's - CD's, so who is reaping the rewards because we know who is paying.
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AfterDawn Addict
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25. January 2009 @ 20:00 |
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Originally posted by subyroo:
Originally posted by conebob:
Well down here in Australia the Record industry idiots want the goverment to bring in one of two laws.
(1) All ISP's to charge $10 a month to all users to cover illegal downloads.."Not fair on the people who dont download"
(2) All ISP's to block music or movie downloads unless from a paid site.."Even more stupid..censorship at its best"
It wont happen the ISP's know what side their breads buttered on.
What really gets me is you have a movie company that makes a big movie. On the first week of release it makes 4 times the production cost. Then after a few months it goes to DVD for which we pay $24/$30 here in Australia. Now apart from being a year old by the time it hits the shelf here, why would I pay $30 just to watch a picture one time? If I go to hire it, it still costs $7.00 for a new release where I live. Music CD's sell for $25.00 here as well.
Yet I can download a movie from the net "For my own viewing pleasure" before it even gets to the cinema here in Aus for only the cost of my internet conection.
Do I feel sorry for the actors who are not getting my money? NO!
Do I feel sorry for all the middle men who are not getting my money?..NO!
Why? Because they are overpriced..Sell DVD's for $10.00 and Music CD's for $5.00 and I may start buying them again.
Cheers
Especially when CD's & DVD blanks are as cheap as chips ie 50c - $1.00AUD and the big companies produce copies in such large volumes the cost would be nowhere near $30.00 each for a DVD Movie unless the people with the Movie rights are extorting royalties from the big manufacturers of these DVD's - CD's, so who is reaping the rewards because we know who is paying.
All the more reason for the media mafia to focus on profits and let retailers and the end seller sale not the physical medium but the data, by running a simple license system that gets X amount of the sale price they could roll in the money via volume sales by focusing on the sale of the data. Unfortunately the media mafia dose not like change or innovation.
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 25. January 2009 @ 20:07
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lott
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25. January 2009 @ 21:50 |
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“The media mafia dose not like change or innovation”.
Why would they, it is better for to intimidate all us in to a totalitarian regiment in there be half.
By using the law and claiming that they are right with no justification to any one but them selfs.
Like I said in the past, I stop buying media when they started enforcing there so call rights.
How many artist are being payed so called royalties like lets say Janis Joplin, or Carly Simon or Bob Seger, moody blues, and so on.
it is like in this country they claim that when you open a place or bar that you have to pay for royalty rights when you have music playing on a radio or from your personal disk collection, they come every month to charge there doose, and it just happen that we invited to old friends who where composer and they where autographing some album for the customers, and there music was playing at that time well they almost closed the doors of the establishment, because I said well this is a benefit for them.
Because you have not payed them in more them 17 years royalties.
We had to pay fine, it never when to court or a hearing, and the what happen to the so called royalties, well that was 10 years ago.
They are still waiting for those so called royalties.
And to top it off one of them passed away, it was news on the TV lots of people came to the funeral and his widow could not pay for the funeral.
People and I mean his fans payed for the funeral and what was left over was given to the widow.
“Where was the the so called royalties”.
I know some of the artist that I have listed are dead, but even if they are alive they do not get dose so call royalties.
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zenarrrow
Senior Member
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25. January 2009 @ 22:04 |
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Please help me to understand something please? If I went to Walmart and stole a cd, why would I not be charged $150,000. I don't get it one bit??? Never again will I buy a commercial cd. But I am too scared to download as well. They ruined the record business in more than one way.
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davidrose
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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25. January 2009 @ 22:27 |
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This is the RIAA we're talking about, after all. The past few days has seen a sudden influx of blogs getting shut down after the RIAA harasses their hosting providers. Are blogs the next target for the RIAA lawyerbots? Is there a logical reason for them to be doing this? There's been a kind of unspoken truce between the RIAA and bloggers for a long time, one that says that as long as you only post one or two songs and are writing about the artists, it's OK. Why the sudden change of heart? What, suing students doesn't make you seem like big enough dicks, so you've decided to go after the biggest fans of your music? Keep it up dudes, there are still more stupid moves you can make to further alienate potential customers.
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wingco
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26. January 2009 @ 04:53 |
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Let's just put this whole thing into perspective, both the music industry and in the main, the record companies and the film studios have for many years run their businesses on the basis that they enjoyed a virtual monopoly, this enabled vast sums of money to be made without any real need to pay too much attention to their customers' needs, they called the shots and they charged what they liked and put out what they deemed to be appropriate product, save for the fear of persecution during the McCarthy era and the might of companies with large advertising budgets who could influence what was played on radio and television, they were pretty free to act as they wished. The effect of all this was to allow them to run their businesses without the skill and efficiency that would have been necessary had they not had their monopolies, as a result there do not seem to be many case studies on an academic level which show how well these businesses have been run, for the simple reason that they have been run as virtual monopolies, you either had to come to them or you didn't get the films and music you required.
Most industries would have been able to forsee the digital revolution and the implications it would have on their respective industries, particularly if they would have been run by skilled and efficient management.
What we now have is a bunch of guys running around like headless chickens not knowing how to deal with a situation that many people saw coming.
The response has been predictable, threats litigation, underhand manipulation of the legal system, all the last resort of poor management and a complete lack of foresight.
By downloading films and music people have the opportunity to say to these companies that have been percieved to have been ripping them off for years, it's our turn, why do we have to pay you when we can get this stuff for nothing, there are so many of us doing this that you simply do not have the resources both in terms of time and money to go after us all.
Instead of dealing with the situation sensibly they still try to rip the public off.
In the days when you had video tapes and vinyl records and even when CD duplication technology was in its infancy ( therefore expensive equipment was needed to be able to reproduce these media) you still had to buy a tape or a record or a CD to be able to duplicate the content.
In those days the costs could at least be justified by showing the need to A, record the material, B, reproduce copies, C, Store the copies, D, distribute the copies, E, market and advertise the product all of which added huge cost to the process.
With downloads none of these costs have to be borne, save for the initial creation of the material, yet the amounts charged by legal download sites equate to the same price as buying the content in its original form, that is why so many people illegally download this sort of material. If the tracks were available from the legal sites at a price that reflected the true cost, then most people would prefer to stay on the right side of the law, if music tracks cost 10c and films cost a dollar or two, most people would take that option and the film and record companies would see a huge rise in income, which they are currently losing. They must act quickly or it will be too late to even use this strategy and heavy-handed threats will only alienate their whole market.
Adopt a proper business approach in line with the market AS IT NOW IS or lose out permanently!
The question really is whether the management in these industries is capable of running businesses now that there is a way for millions of consumers to circumvent their virtual monopolies. Only time and their share prices will tell, the recession of course only adds impetus to the situation.
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ericb
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26. January 2009 @ 07:31 |
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Now that is a sensible and worthwhile post! thankyou!
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conebob
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26. January 2009 @ 08:02 |
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I agree 100% wingco.
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Mez
AfterDawn Addict
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26. January 2009 @ 08:26 |
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Hugolove, you have it kinda wrong. If politicians were honest and did not take bribes things would be different. I blame them more than the persons doing the bribing.
davidrose, interesting, I did not know they stooped so low but I am not surprised, they are truly evil.
Wingco, those are my sentiments exactly. A $1 a tune is an insult to intelligence. They are like serial murderers. They have raped the public for so long that is the only why they like it now. Selling music for a fair price probably revolts them. However, their evil schemes will not give them as much profits as selling for a fair price.
s1vrbllt6, P2P isn't a crime in most countries but that will change when they change the laws. Note I stated when they change the laws not if they change the laws.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. January 2009 @ 08:28
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RTShaw
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26. January 2009 @ 10:34 |
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lost most control of my fingers & eyes water/spasm 24/7,so pleaqe bear with me, it hurts like hell 2 type.
this is great discussion another reason i love freedom & Democracy there are some very intelligent folks posting nd i'm proud of tem andthis site!
thank u everyone
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housebrke
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26. January 2009 @ 14:53 |
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How ironic that the 'students' who were fervently in favor of Obama now have to live with his choice for asst att general who is RIAA associate lawyer. I smile every time I read it. A wolf in sheep skin.
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AfterDawn Addict
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26. January 2009 @ 14:58 |
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Originally posted by housebrke:
How ironic that the 'students' who were fervently in favor of Obama now have to live with his choice for asst att general who is RIAA associate lawyer. I smile every time I read it. A wolf in sheep skin.
So Obama is a lawyer? McCain was a old foggy with no clue of stuff outside of army stuff and a couple other things...they both are a step up from Bush.co...
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Senior Member
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26. January 2009 @ 19:39 |
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Hot Damn Zippy, did you hit the nail on the head with that one lol.
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conebob
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26. January 2009 @ 20:17 |
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What the Music/Movie/Software industries need to understand is that if they produce a product that can be easily uploaded/downloaded from the internet with vertualy no additional software needed by the end user to copy or use the said product, It is their fault.
We (You/Me) can not be held responsible for buying a computer and using it to its full extent, thats what we do!
They will never be able to stop people sharing Files/Data.
They can only change or encode their products so they can not be copied or shared. Until they do that they are pushing @#$% up hill.
Cheers
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AfterDawn Addict
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26. January 2009 @ 22:09 |
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Originally posted by FredBun:
Hot Damn Zippy, did you hit the nail on the head with that one lol.
I mean lets face it Obama at least has half a brain weather it fully works or not we shall see... I mean he is still a politician, He is at least a basic intellectual and that's never a bad thing considering we had the complete opposite in there for the last 8.... but frankly boil it down the new king is the same as the old kind, long live the king and all that jive hes pretty much a status quo type as are 90% of our leaders.
McCain is different than bush.co and if he did not let the neo cons run his campaign I could have voted for him but frankly the neo cons sucked out whatever life/charm the reapers had, now the dims get to replace Nero fiddling on the roof with soemone who can at least fool you into believe the fire is not hot....if just a bit...and frankly I like to half believe what the fork toung politicians say...it beats complete dismissing them and making fun of them not being able to talk/say words correctly....
I only have 1 real hope with Obama who I voted for because there were no other options(would have voted for Ron Paul if they dared ran him), I only hope we as a collective herd are fcked with less by our leaders...but looking at how the left is shaping up to be more hardcore fascists than the right ever could was I have my doubts.
Moving slightly more back to topic both are going to support what the industry wants some less some more, we all know the media mafia's current ways are incompatible with the future and since our leaders are like a dinos brain its going to take awhile before they wake up and realize they can not continue to support their racket without giving them the powers of the FBI.....
In order big content to survive the government is going to have to say the only thing they can legally whine about is for profit distribution.
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Senior Member
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26. January 2009 @ 23:00 |
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Now I've had a bit of a chance to think on this and it does bother me that Obama has given such a top job to such a guy.
Oh, I know lawyers will get into bed with anyone and idealists are far and few between in that profession, but Obama is meant to be a professor of constitutional law himself.
Shouldn't it have been obvious to him that this business was unconstitutional in a punitive sense? Surely there are other precedents?
If it's a push to make this stuff actually criminal rather than civil...? (Think of the public money wasted in the pursuit of citizens? Think marijuana related laws- I'm not arguing that pot is harmless just on par with alcohol at the most.)
Ok. in Australia there is a benighted push to prevent P2P etc. all in the name of stopping kiddy porn, although really to stop file sharing in general. If they can get away with it it will be exported globally. Just another example imho.
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26. January 2009 @ 23:03 |
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Jemborg
It could be a good thing having soemone that once worked with the RIAA to know thier mindsets to be able to find a better common ground with the industry and the consumer, a pipe dream I know but stranger things have happened.
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27. January 2009 @ 04:08 |
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Quote:
For Joel Tenenbaum that would mean paying less than $50 for all seven songs he's accused of distributing.
What i cant belive is the fact that all this case against this guy is only for 7 songs. What a joke.
but reading this article shows me that how complicated and well full of loop holes it is. What i do like is the fact that some one actually took the initative to use their brain and the law against the riaa. Which goes to show you how important being educated is.
Alot of people and friends i know have issues and get stuck in red tape is due to the fact that they are not well informed about the legal system and only takes in what the TV portrays.
To all young people still in school education is the key to your future.
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Senior Member
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27. January 2009 @ 07:17 |
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@borhan9 ? Good point and what a joke it is. As to being informed, most people do believe what they see on TV or even the lies our government feeds them, there must be comfort in this because I don?t understand it myself. What is even more funny is that most people acknowledge the media lies to them or misrepresents things to them but they still watch and believe what they see. It reminds me of some of my friends who love professional wrestling and say they know it is fake but when it really comes down to it they fully believe it is real, WOW. If you can control information you can control the masses.
Unfortunately the Joel Tenenbaum?s of the world won?t matter in the long term as we have found with previous cases that are similar. The RIAA has plenty of power and money to continue their crusade until they get the legal system in their favor. Why is it that they can loose the same type of case many times over, like this one, but once they have won this type of case it becomes a president in law, what a legal system we have.
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Mez
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27. January 2009 @ 08:46 |
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Housebroke, students are always extremely naive. Obama has to reward those that got him into office. He out spent McCain massively so he has plenty of ?debt?.
I bet Obama sees ?music stealing? as not good for the economy. It is moronic to believe just because you voted for him he is not going to hurt you in some way. His job is to make things right as he sees it. In fact he promised to create hardships so in his acceptance speech. He worded it as helping the US. I laughed at the morons who felt honored to help us dig out. They will scream betrayal when he raises taxes. What did they think he was talking about enviting them to the White House to get their opinion.
I agree with the other moderates. Obama can?t do worse than Bush. He and his team see many of the problems facing the US as I do. I can?t believe Bush stopped CA from enacting a law that would have demanded better fuel economy than the US car makers wanted. Hell, those morons were creating Hummers and perfecting gas guzzlers while the rest of the world here perfecting fuel efficient cars. Now, they are bawling like babies wanting the tax payers to bail them out. Still they want to continue with the gas guzzlers. They really need to clean out the top 5 layers on management before they get any tax payers money.
Just because he was charged with 7 tunes does not mean Tenenbaum wasn?t sharing thousands. The RIAA wants the public to feel uneasy with sharing 7 files.
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