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Consumers still not sold on Blu-ray
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The following comments relate to this news article:
article published on 25 June, 2009
The results of a new survey by Harris Interactive show that despite winning the hi-def format war Blu-ray isn't showing any real signs it will become a mainstream success. In fact they indicate more people own standalone HD DVD players (11%) than Blu-ray players (7%).
When you factor in PS3 game consoles and the Xbox 360 add on HD DVD drive the numbers shift to favor Blu-ray, but it's ... [ read the full article ]
Please read the original article before posting your comments.
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erjl
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25. June 2009 @ 20:51 |
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I just went to Walmarts website. they have 11 BluRay players ranging in price from $169 to $499. They had 15 DVD players under $50. duh
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HDNow
Junior Member
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25. June 2009 @ 20:53 |
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According to engadgetHD something's very fishy about the Harris poll:
Harris Poll concerning Blu-ray and HD DVD penetration is way off
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We had a feeling something was up with the results of the recent Harris Poll and it looks like we had good reason. No one is trying to say that the folks that conducted the poll had a Red agenda or anything, it is just like Adams research puts it when talking about consumer polls in general, "you can't trust the average survey respondent to correctly identify the high-tech devices in their homes." You can say that again. The funny thing is that the results of the poll even look screwy when compared to the HDDVD Promotion group's numbers which reported that even after a few months following the format war, only 1 million stand-alone HDDVD players were sold. This is nowhere near the 10 million that it would take to make up 9 percent of the 111 million US households the poll reports. And in case you care, analysts project -- you know, the ones actually based on retail sales instead of a consumer survey -- that 14.8 percent of US households will have some way to play a Blu-ray Disc by the end of 2009, which is almost double what it was at the end of 2008.
The key statement there is this:
you can't trust the average survey respondent to correctly identify the high-tech devices in their homes.
People surveyed thought their upconverting SDDVD players were HDDVD players.
This alone invalidates the whole survey.
In addition: Toshiba is dropping hints that they could finally make BluRay products:
Toshiba Chief Hints At Launching Blu-Ray Disc Ops
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President Atsutoshi Nishida did not rule out the possibility of selling DVD recorders using the Blu-ray Disc format when addressing shareholders at the firm's general meeting here Wednesday.
"It makes no sense to decide not to enter the Blu-Ray market simply because we lost the DVD-format war. We cannot change the fact that we lost, but we would like to keep our options open," he said.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 25. June 2009 @ 21:02
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Toshibot
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25. June 2009 @ 21:12 |
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Originally posted by HDNow:
According to engadgetHD something's very fishy about the Harris poll
The Harris poll numbers don't jive with actual shipping and sales data from Adams Media Research:
BDA, Adams Dispute Harris Survey on Blu-ray
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The Blu-ray Disc Association is challenging the accuracy of a June 18 Harris Poll, which says that as of April, more Americans owned an HD DVD player (11%) than a Blu-ray Disc player (7%).
The BDA on June 25 said the Harris survey doesn?t mesh with actual shipping and sales numbers for Blu-ray, pointing to Adams Media Research data that puts the numbers closer to nearly 8% for Blu-ray and less than 1% for HDDVD. Calling the Harris data ?grossly inaccurate,? the news release states that by the end of 2009, Blu-ray players will be in nearly 15% of American TV homes.
Tom Adams, president of Adams Media Research, blamed the survey findings on consumers? inability to identify what exactly is next to their TVs.
"Some people believe a DVD player on an HDTV is high-def. There's just so much confusion out there," Adams said. "Everybody makes mistakes" he said of the Harris survey "but we have models that show those numbers just can't be true."
I'd rather look at actual sales numbers than surveys from people who can't identify the machine sitting next to their TV.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 25. June 2009 @ 21:13
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Senior Member
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25. June 2009 @ 22:29 |
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Perhaps I should elaborate further to clarify my points made.
1. There is a visual difference between Bluray and DVD.
2. There is a difference between DVD and VHS.
3. The technological leap from VHS to DVD was greater than the technological leap from DVD to Bluray. DVD disks do not demagnetize nor strip off as magnetic tapes do. Kids may scratch the surface of a DVD or sit on it and crack it, but the DVD doesn't get eaten by the player which hasn't been cleaned or has a poor tape fed into it, nor have the kids pulled a tape out and mangled the tape itself or broken the tape housing. You don't have to rewind a DVD. They require much less room to store in quantity.
4. To take full advantage of Bluray one must purchase or already own a high definition TV. Most of the consumers out there do not.
5. The majority of people are not willing to shell out the required money to enjoy a sharper picture at this point in time.
6. Sony is the company that around here is pushing Bluray harder than anyother in my opinion. Go into a Blockbuster and look at their displays.
7. Didn't plan on getting into a flame war, just wanted to voice my 2¢ worth on why I won't be purchasing a Bluray/HDTV soon.
Eventually as the price of HD TV comes down as more and more people replace their older models which stop working, then perhaps Bluray will take over DVD in terms of unit sales, but for the majority of consumers out there right now, why spend several hundred dollars for a better picture?
Quote:
I just went to Walmarts website. they have 11 BluRay players ranging in price from $169 to $499. They had 15 DVD players under $50. duh
I own 2 Sony units purchased on sale for $29.99 USD, one from Wallyworld, the other from HHGreg. Great picture and also play all varieties of burned DVD+/-R and DL disks.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 25. June 2009 @ 22:37
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llongtheD
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26. June 2009 @ 00:29 |
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At some point sony is going to have to drop these ridiculous copy protection schemes, and firmware upgrades to play new titles if they want this thing to take off. If you think joe sixpack doesn't have a clue about the difference between the two formats, what do you think he does when he puts in a new disc, and has to do a firmware upgrade for the movie to play when he's already nine beers sh*tty. There is an old saying, "Keep it simple stupid." The media companies are going to have to realize this if they want to sell to the masses.
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pphoenix
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26. June 2009 @ 05:04 |
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Originally posted by oner:
1) SONY is not the only company in the BD association, funny how you call only a specific one out though for some reason...
2) "The gap between DVD and BlueRay/HD is not as great" ~ Exhibit A & B + some direct ones
DVD - BD
DVD - BD
DVD & BD
If those don't show a "gap" then there is no point of me saying anything further...
have i miss read something? no body is saying that blu-ray and DVD are the same in this forum, it's obvious people know that more pixels equals a better picture, what the report says & what customers are saying to me is they "don't care". imho the picture benefits are minimal on a small (<40) screen at the normal 13 foot viewing distance. until the studios inevitably force the exodus to blu-ray by releasing blu-ray only blockbusters ppl will be happy with what they have.
he 9is being a bit hard on sony but they are a very bad company that constantly dogs on it's customers & are pushing for very restrictive DRM to block off the analogue hole which in turn benefits them as they also sell TV's. so is he right to single out a company, probably yes, bad companies need to be named & shamed, & why should you care exactly?
tbh buddy i think you need to take a chill pill.
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26. June 2009 @ 08:56 |
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Originally posted by pphoenix:
Originally posted by oner:
1) SONY is not the only company in the BD association, funny how you call only a specific one out though for some reason...
2) "The gap between DVD and BlueRay/HD is not as great" ~ Exhibit A & B + some direct ones
DVD - BD
DVD - BD
DVD & BD
If those don't show a "gap" then there is no point of me saying anything further...
have i miss read something? no body is saying that blu-ray and DVD are the same in this forum, it's obvious people know that more pixels equals a better picture, what the report says & what customers are saying to me is they "don't care". imho the picture benefits are minimal on a small (<40) screen at the normal 13 foot viewing distance. until the studios inevitably force the exodus to blu-ray by releasing blu-ray only blockbusters ppl will be happy with what they have.
he 9is being a bit hard on sony but they are a very bad company that constantly dogs on it's customers & are pushing for very restrictive DRM to block off the analogue hole which in turn benefits them as they also sell TV's. so is he right to single out a company, probably yes, bad companies need to be named & shamed, & why should you care exactly?
tbh buddy i think you need to take a chill pill.
You ask if you miss read something but yet you didn't quote my whole comment of which explains/shows why I posted what I did. So TBH I could care less for what you "think" since you took my comment out of context to make an invalid point right from the start. So I would strongly suggest you going back and READING to know where you missed out to see where you're wrong.
Originally posted by blivetNC:
Perhaps I should elaborate further to clarify my points made.
1. There is a visual difference between Bluray and DVD.
2. There is a difference between DVD and VHS.
3. The technological leap from VHS to DVD was greater than the technological leap from DVD to Bluray. DVD disks do not demagnetize nor strip off as magnetic tapes do. Kids may scratch the surface of a DVD or sit on it and crack it, but the DVD doesn't get eaten by the player which hasn't been cleaned or has a poor tape fed into it, nor have the kids pulled a tape out and mangled the tape itself or broken the tape housing. You don't have to rewind a DVD. They require much less room to store in quantity.
4. To take full advantage of Bluray one must purchase or already own a high definition TV. Most of the consumers out there do not.
5. The majority of people are not willing to shell out the required money to enjoy a sharper picture at this point in time.
6. Sony is the company that around here is pushing Bluray harder than anyother in my opinion. Go into a Blockbuster and look at their displays.
7. Didn't plan on getting into a flame war, just wanted to voice my 2¢ worth on why I won't be purchasing a Bluray/HDTV soon.
Eventually as the price of HD TV comes down as more and more people replace their older models which stop working, then perhaps Bluray will take over DVD in terms of unit sales, but for the majority of consumers out there right now, why spend several hundred dollars for a better picture?
Quote:
I just went to Walmarts website. they have 11 BluRay players ranging in price from $169 to $499. They had 15 DVD players under $50. duh
I own 2 Sony units purchased on sale for $29.99 USD, one from Wallyworld, the other from HHGreg. Great picture and also play all varieties of burned DVD+/-R and DL disks.
I do apologize blivetNC if what I said came out a bit strong but it is definitely not meant as a "flamewar". It's just that I found it odd you only called out 1 specific company out of quite a few that have a vested interest in a product they ALL support and had a hand in developing in one way or another.
But I absolutely understand what you mean about cost of investment vs return on experience etc. My point was mainly just that for you to say there is no gap was incorrect but you addressed that a bit more, so it is understood what you tried to say earlier. Though I do not exactly agree with these 2 items
Quote:
5. The majority of people are not willing to shell out the required money to enjoy a sharper picture at this point in time.
6. Sony is the company that around here is pushing Bluray harder than anyother in my opinion. Go into a Blockbuster and look at their displays.
Sales of HDTV's over the last few years 100% disprove #5 and using Blockbuster for #6 as a main reference to how Sony is "pushing" BD is a bit outlandish, BUT that is not to say Sony isn't "pushing" BD, because they absolutely are...but that just goes back to my earlier comment of companies having a vested interest in a product they offer and want to succeed.
People always complain about DRM this or that but to those who it REALLY affects it really doesn't mean a damned thing because if they want to bypass it they'll find out how to ;)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. June 2009 @ 09:03
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IguanaC64
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26. June 2009 @ 09:20 |
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I bought a 42" HD TV because it was cheaper than the 36" CRT TV it replaced that broke down...not because it had a better picture. It was also a HELL of a lot lighter...
The difference in cost between players+movies just doesn't make this worth it. Esp when I look at the roughly $3000 dollar price tag to replace my DVD collection at current prices.
@Mr.JoeSixPackCommenter - I'm hardly Joe Sixpack, either...I have more geek shit in my house than you will ever have. I just have a family to feed and more important priorities in my life than repurchasing what I already own for a relatively minor bump in visual quality. Eventually I'll do it, but only when I see players in the sub-$50 range and movies are in the $10-$15 range.
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26. June 2009 @ 09:44 |
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Iguana I think realistically that is probably how alot of people feel in general, and the fact is no one is asking/telling/making anyone repurchase their entire DVD collection. When someone finally makes the transition into BD they can use their DVD @ an upscaled resolution and then purchase their new movies on BD...honestly it's no big deal that some try to make it out to be.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. June 2009 @ 09:45
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26. June 2009 @ 09:59 |
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I finally bought an LG burner to make 'backups.' The freakin thing has been collecting dust for 2 months. There's no way I'm going to pay $40 to $50 for a pack of 15 disks.
When prices go from the ridiculous to normal, that's when people will latch on to Blu-ray.
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vizo
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26. June 2009 @ 11:05 |
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I think in order to realy see the differance between blue-ray and DVD is when the LCD panels become real HD 1600p or greater with built in upscailing. Just look at the 30 inch top end PC LCD's, now thats real HD. In addition to this, remember that as you get larger LCD tv's those dam pixels also get bigger.
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nervuli
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26. June 2009 @ 11:34 |
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Yes oner there is a difference but is it enough? Apparently not says the people.
Not to mention that in your home watching movie you don't compare which of the two is better. You're happy what you have and concentrate enjoying the movie. Or else you are a super nerd if you watch the whole movie in pain knowing there is a better quality out there.
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jdurden
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26. June 2009 @ 11:35 |
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It's bull shit that Sony has the monopoly on HD format DVDs. I can't believe that they were able to get away with that, it's unamerican. I will be boycotting blue-rays till further notice. I have always been a fan of Sony products till this BS.
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26. June 2009 @ 11:54 |
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Originally posted by nervuli:
Yes oner there is a difference but is it enough? Apparently not says the people.
Not to mention that in your home watching movie you don't compare which of the two is better. You're happy what you have and concentrate enjoying the movie. Or else you are a super nerd if you watch the whole movie in pain knowing there is a better quality out there.
Thank you, at last, a view like mine, i watch a movie for it's content ie the story. If it looks nice too, great, but if not, so what (especially if it's bad CGI that looks even more out of place than it would on DVD). This week i watched a couple of foreign movies, one Hindi and one French, rivetting storylines, not the usual regurgigated Hollwood eye candy. I like eye candy as much as anyone but i'm certainly not interested in moving to Bluray or worse still, i'm not going to be replacing a single DVD with a Bluray version, not just because of cost, because to me there's just no point, as per the thread title i'm "still not sold on Blu-ray".
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26. June 2009 @ 12:58 |
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The last couple posts hit it right on the head, other than that, bluray does nothing for me, my family, friends and neighbors, I have a Sony XBR 40 in. set, I hate admitting it cause I vowed never to buy anything Sony after that rootkit fiasco, but my deal was almost a steal, I rented our first bluray movie using the kids ps3, we all watched as I also invited the neighbors.
After the movie I kept switching my DVD movie to the bluray movie I had both, nobody could tell the difference, my wife when we watched the bluray movie she asked when are we gonna watch the bluray movie, she knows nothing about anything techie, I said we already did, need I explain more.
What I did see, about a month ago I was at a friends house he had one of them huge sets, 50 plus something, there is when I saw a difference, but not a considerable one, not for the kind of prices these guys are trying to lure you in, I use my upconverted DVD player on my set and it's just fine, if bluray had a difference like from VHS to DVD now that would be a difference, DVD to Bluray, no thanks, plus now they want you to upgrade all your equipment & collections etc, this is a no-brainer where this is going people, and a last point, the other day I was buying some blank media at my favorite site, I just happen to look at blank bluray media, I almost crapped my pants.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. June 2009 @ 13:00
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Senior Member
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26. June 2009 @ 13:25 |
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I wholeheartedly agree with the "It's just not worth the cost to me" argument...
But, here's another consideration.
You can debate the quality differences all day long, but the reality is that most people, myself included, do not have the ability to make that comparison. I have one TV and one Disk player (which hasn't been turned on in ages). I couldn't tell you if Blueray was better or not because I don't have it. What I do know is that my current TV/DVD player is sufficient. I'm not looking for "something better". There's on compulsion. So, Blueray may be the cats meow, but it wouldn't matter to me because what I have already does the job.
As for the future? I think we'll eventually be forced away from DVD's and into Blueray, but not because of the quality, but because of the pirating.
Right now you can get virtually any movie you want and most don't take an hour to get. They play awesome on a normal TV.
But, if the standard gets raised to the point where a downloaded HD movie now takes 5gigs or even more, then this convienence will disappear. It'll take days to download.
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26. June 2009 @ 14:57 |
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Originally posted by creaky:
Thank you, at last, a view like mine, i watch a movie for it's content ie the story. If it looks nice too, great, but if not, so what (especially if it's bad CGI that looks even more out of place than it would on DVD). This week i watched a couple of foreign movies, one Hindi and one French, rivetting storylines, not the usual regurgigated Hollwood eye candy. I like eye candy as much as anyone but i'm certainly not interested in moving to Bluray or worse still, i'm not going to be replacing a single DVD with a Bluray version, not just because of cost, because to me there's just no point, as per the thread title i'm "still not sold on Blu-ray".
Creak I still enjoy movies for what they are ~ a story. No matter SD, HD, Sub SD rips or whatever. I just prefer a visually clean version if I had my choice to watch one or the other. I guess I do forget that since I have a 60" HD set I am able to enjoy the benefits that BD offers over SD stuff.
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26. June 2009 @ 15:18 |
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Oops I hadn't finished off my previous post properly.
Yeah don't get me wrong, I use DVD Rebuilder to ensure my DVD's are as good quality as they can be, and i've seen how clear Bluray's are (in the big stores on the huge TV screens) but i just don't "get it". Maybe once DVD's are in danger of extinction, and/or movies are only available on Bluray, i might reconsider, but what with the financial meltdown we're all still in, and the job market being an absolute joke, it just isn't going to happen anytime soon :p
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pphoenix
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26. June 2009 @ 15:23 |
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Originally posted by creaky:
Oops I hadn't finished off my previous post properly.
Yeah don't get me wrong, I use DVD Rebuilder to ensure my DVD's are as good quality as they can be, and i've seen how clear Bluray's are (in the big stores on the huge TV screens) but i just don't "get it". Maybe once DVD's are in danger of extinction, and/or movies are only available on Bluray, i might reconsider, but what with the financial meltdown we're all still in, and the job market being an absolute joke, it just isn't going to happen anytime soon :p
But you still drive an old model t type ford while everyone else is in a red Ferrari with go faster stripes, you must go out ant buy one or you'll be left behind in the prehistoric era!
on a serious note, i fully agree with you creaky, & so do most of the customers coming into the Solihull branch of comet. most walk out shaking their head, maybe it's just the sales banter they dislike.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. June 2009 @ 15:24
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26. June 2009 @ 15:37 |
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Originally posted by pphoenix:
But you still drive an old model t type ford while everyone else is in a red Ferrari with go faster stripes, you must go out ant buy one or you'll be left behind in the prehistoric era!
on a serious note, i fully agree with you creaky, & so do most of the customers coming into the Solihull branch of comet. most walk out shaking their head, maybe it's just the sales banter they dislike.
I actually do drive a really old car, have always had old cars. One way to avoid feeling less well off than others is to avoid Solihull :)
I like technology as much as anyone, though times are hard so the nicer things become even less attractive than they were when money was good. By the time i "get it" with Bluray i'll probably be wearing bottle-top glasses which cancel out the improved clarity of the movies. But as i say, in my case i'm fine with that, i do have a (fairly) large HDTV that can do 1080i max and that's clear enough for me for many years to come.
But i can't comment on consumers in general, i don't follow studies or polls or anything, just thought i'd throw my five penneth in.
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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. June 2009 @ 15:42
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26. June 2009 @ 20:19 |
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You don't have to necessarily GET a HDTV to watch Blu-Ray, it just looks better on it. However, I can see people justifying this simply bc there's no reason to buy a BR player if you want sub-par video. That's like trying to see out of a windows that's smeared and claiming its clear. - BLUEBOY
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nb69
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26. June 2009 @ 20:41 |
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screw BR and screw SONY.
after they paid/bribed Warner Bros. 40 million dollars to switch exclusively to BR their library, it destroyed HD and TOSHIBA.
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Toshibot
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26. June 2009 @ 21:01 |
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26. June 2009 @ 22:57 |
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Quote:
Sales of HDTV's over the last few years 100% disprove #5 and using Blockbuster for #6 as a main reference to how Sony is "pushing" BD is a bit outlandish, BUT that is not to say Sony isn't "pushing" BD, because they absolutely are
I'm not disputing that fact either, but my point is I have three perfectly good analog TV sets in my house, from 19" up to 32" which perform flawlessly. The picture quality is not as good as a 1080 HDTV set, but I can't justify tossing a good set and replace it with a new one just yet. When these die over the next few years as they will, I will replace them with a newer model, most likely HDTV 1080 or better by then, but for now I shall hold on to my model "T" TV sets and my 1950's chrome monster DVD players.
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27. June 2009 @ 08:53 |
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Originally posted by nb69:
screw BR and screw SONY.
after they paid/bribed Warner Bros. 40[0] million dollars to switch exclusively to BR their library, it destroyed HD and TOSHIBA.
So let me get this straight...it's bad for "BR/Sony" (yet the BDA is more than 1 company once again but I digress) to pay for exclusivity but it's not a problem for "HDDVD" to do the same? Double Standard FTL!
Originally posted by blivetNC:
Quote:
Sales of HDTV's over the last few years 100% disprove #5 and using Blockbuster for #6 as a main reference to how Sony is "pushing" BD is a bit outlandish, BUT that is not to say Sony isn't "pushing" BD, because they absolutely are
I'm not disputing that fact either, but my point is I have three perfectly good analog TV sets in my house, from 19" up to 32" which perform flawlessly. The picture quality is not as good as a 1080 HDTV set, but I can't justify tossing a good set and replace it with a new one just yet. When these die over the next few years as they will, I will replace them with a newer model, most likely HDTV 1080 or better by then, but for now I shall hold on to my model "T" TV sets and my 1950's chrome monster DVD players.
That's the thing BlivetNC, no one is forcing you to upgrade at all. When you do, you do, if you can. No big deal.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. June 2009 @ 09:06
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