Originally posted by 1-Up;129332:

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:panic2: I think people need to stop panic typing and moaning into forums like this without researching a bit about what is going on.

I am very new to this scene. I only bought my box a few weeks ago. In fact I bought 4 in total for friends and family too. Then the following weekend Channels started to go. It was just bad timing for me unfortunately. I had no idea what was going on. Thats when I decided to look at this forum.

I agree with some posters saying that there is little information in "detail" on this forum about what was happening. It is there, but you have to search for it. I think most people here assume everyone is experienced and has been using these boxes for years. But thats not the case. Some people are new, like me, and some are not very technical and so dont really understand what is going on. I think people on both sides should just calmly and simply explain the situation. It is not good to give out about the situation as its out of their control, plus its also not good for people who have been in the scene for years to gloat about the fact they have had a good 2 years of free tv. Thats great for you but not great for people who are new to the scene and just spent a small fortune. So please can the gloaters and the moaners and panic merchants just keep their comments to themselves as its not helping or adding productive information to the forum.

Below is an edited extract of some info I found on another forum which simplifies the situation about N3 and I think will explain to the newbies what is going on and what it will take to overcome it, if and when it happens. I think it will be overcome, but it may take some time. We just have to sit back and wait and see.

[Start of Extract]

Q. What is Nagra 3?

A. Nagra 3, also referred to as N3 & Nag3 is the newest encryption system being implemented by cable and satellite companies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagravision

Q. Why is Nagra 3 causing us problems?

A. Because most providers use an older system, Nagra 1 and Nagra 2. The coders know Nagra 2 like the back of their hand. Nagra 3 is new and needs to be mastered & broken.

Q. How long until everything goes Nagra 3?

A. Exact dates are unknown. It has begun in Ireland, and is being phased in. So we will see groups of channels disappearing as time goes by like we have already with the sports and movies. We may be lucky in that some of the basic channels won't be changed, but I would imagine all channels will be changed eventually.

Q. Will Nagra 3 be hacked?

A. Nothing can be promised but all past and current indicators are that yes, a hack of some sort will eventually surface. Do not expect to see or hear of it until the full change over is complete. It also may or may not require you to use a Nagra 3 card in your FTA. This early on in the game it is educated guesses and speculation.

Q. Some of my channels are missing, or I just have audio. What is wrong?

A. Odds are that those channels are using Nagra 3. Audio on many channels is not encrypted or is still using Nagra 2, that would be why you may have sound on some channels but no picture. At this point there is nothing that can be done to get it back

So the N3 transition is in full swing. While this is going to be a real bummer for some of you, most of you know how this works and are going to patiently wait out the storm. As the weeks come and channels drop, we will see people come in and spread, doom, gloom, and just plain confusion in regards to the channel loss. Rest assured that the coders are extremely confident in their abilities, but also know that the providers are not just gonna sit back and take it. Expect some fun and surprises if and when the first N3 fixes surface.

At this time no one knows how this is going to play out or what secrets N3 may hold. The coders seem to be chuckling at N3, but we will see if they really have the last laugh. I also ask the veterans here to go easy on the guy or gal who just bought their first FTA box yesterday and have no idea that the channels are going out now and what's in store for him or her. Don't jump on them and say "how can you not know what's going on idiot!!" just be patient and explain to them the transition at hand. If you don't have anything nice to post it's best not to reply.

I have seen a bunch of talk about Nagra 3 being implemented and tested in the data stream so I figured I would explain a bit about how encryption works so that folks understand a bit more about why these rumors are false and why they shouldn?t worry about the release of Nagra 3 so much?..

Just so you know, this is a simplified version? professional encryption is a huge deal with several formulas, algorithms etc?.. but just as encryption is huge so is DECRYPTION?? in other words, for every person making encryption there is 5 working to decrypt it?. All of them working for our stb manufacturers?.. Here is a basic idea of how encryption works :

All encryption is based on a mathematical formula?. For example? you start off with a code to crack and the idea is that you want to find out how many apples Johnny has in his bucket?.. here is how the systems would work?

NAGRA 1?.. this works on basic addition (not really.. this is the part where I am making? it simpler)?. You start off with someone leaking that there was originally 3 apples in Johnny?s bucket?. The only mathematical process Nagra 1 knows is addition?.. so? the provider sends down the number 5 in the data stream? through basic addition your formula tells you to add 5 apples to the original 3? you get eight and boom?.. you know the answer?. A simple calculation like this would be done millions and millions of times by your receiver in seconds?.. this produces your tv pic using binary language?. When the provider uses addition to change the amount of apples originally in the basket you need a new bin file to help your receiver decrypt the signal?.

NAGRA 2?? Now you introduce subtraction into the mix? now the provider can change the number of apples originally in the basket both ways? add more or take some away?.. the equation is twice as complicated and your receiver has to work double time?? every once in a while the equation gives you a previous number used because due to subtraction you can go back to a previous number?. This is what happens that causes a previous bin file to work?..

NAGRA 3? Ok? let?s say this bad boy can do multiplication?.. now your equations are 3 times as difficult? it is harder for coders to find the formula?. Your number of original apples can now go from 100000 to 2 in a flash of a second due to multiplication?? your receiver is working triple time?? it takes the coders longer to learn how many apples are in the basket??

Bottom line? the bad news is that you may not have any apples in your basket for a while since the coders will need time to figure this out??. The good news is that they are geniuses and a whole lot of rich folks will be losing a pile of money until they get some apples back in your basket??LOL?.. no worries?.. we will get some downtime but we will be back up and running?.

[End of Extract]

Originally posted by mellio:

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super bit of information but I feel Ireland will be left in the cold
until the UK go to Nag 3 if they ever go that route.

Financially I dont think it would be viable for stb manufacturers to pay for a fix for N3 just for the irish market based on the number of people with these boxes in ireland.

Now maybe Im way off the mark but like everything in life it all boils down to money and can enough be made from getting something and selling it on in one form or another.



I will of course keep optimistic but even if there is a fix eventually I think a lot of people have bought only in the last month or so and got no value out of there box in there eyes so they probably wont take another chance but who am I to know.

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Originally posted by shaneh:

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Originally posted by mellio:

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super bit of information but I feel Ireland will be left in the cold
until the UK go to Nag 3 if they ever go that route.

Financially I dont think it would be viable for stb manufacturers to pay for a fix for N3 just for the irish market based on the number of people with these boxes in ireland.

Now maybe Im way off the mark but like everything in life it all boils down to money and can enough be made from getting something and selling it on in one form or another.



I will of course keep optimistic but even if there is a fix eventually I think a lot of people have bought only in the last month or so and got no value out of there box in there eyes so they probably wont take another chance but who am I to know.

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first off the uk are'nt going the n3 route, ireland isnt the only country using n3 now so of course there looking to hack it, maybe they'll use ireland as a testing ground for fixes

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Originally posted by Crytpohx:

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Yes, Ireland's population is practically nonexistent in comparison to people affected by N3 in North America, Canada and Europe.

In fact with N1 we always depended on the Uk to get our fixes(cydine patching the roms ect).

Now that Virgin are going a different route altogether were extra screwed.

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Originally posted by gemineye7:

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Instead of trying to make a box understand nag 3! Would it be posable to build a box that already understands it, Rather than a box trying to figure it out???????? (in layman's terms!)

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Originally posted by gemineye7:

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You hit the nail on the head hooter......
Even if thay came up with a fix for the boxs, why should thay release one?? thay dont make any cash on fixs, it makes more sence for them to release a new box, thats what makes the world go around for them...

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Originally posted by Crytpohx:

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NDS and Christopher Tarnovsky got stung for R.E the Nagra cards. In a massive court case, so its highly unlikely they will risk it again.

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