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IL-2 Sturmovik Birds o Prey "Safe to Play??"
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Dustyboy
Junior Member
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20. February 2010 @ 08:07 |
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got a pal version of this Wave 3, SSV1 and 0800 Ripped, all checks out fine through abgx. Just wondered if because its an 0800 rip does that assume its safe to play because there are no SSV 2 files available to patch it?
thanks in advance
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AfterDawn Addict
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20. February 2010 @ 12:37 |
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Why don't you just make a thread called "is this game safe for live" and stick to posting in there instead of making multiple ones on the same subject?
As i've said before C4 himself claims that ssv1 from an xbox 360 drive is safe but reccomends ssv2.
PRIVATE MESSAGES ASKING FOR HELP WILL BE IGNORED, USE THE FORUMS TO ASK YOUR QUESTIONS!!! |
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Dustyboy
Junior Member
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20. February 2010 @ 12:44 |
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Yeah maybe i will do just that, then people could just post the title of the game with the Wave number, rip details and SSV value and the experts could advise on whether to play or not to play ECT......
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qwert99
Senior Member
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20. February 2010 @ 17:00 |
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I don't rip games myself, but I've been told that an 0800 drive will never show SSv1.
So this game was either not ripped by an 0800 drive, or was ripped by an 0800 drive and than patched with different files using ABGX or something else.
In any case, I wouldn't personally play any SSv1 game on a console that I didn't want banned.
$38 on new discs -- Check
$15 on burn after burn that showed as a DVD -- Check
$11 on new laser -- Check
$28 on new multimeter -- Check
___________________________________
Knowledge from Leerage? -- Priceless
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AfterDawn Addict
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20. February 2010 @ 17:06 |
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Originally posted by qwert99:
I don't rip games myself, but I've been told that an 0800 drive will never show SSv1.
So this game was either not ripped by an 0800 drive, or was ripped by an 0800 drive and than patched with different files using ABGX or something else.
In any case, I wouldn't personally play any SSv1 game on a console that I didn't want banned.
The first benq 0800 release will rip ssv1, this has been considered safe by C4 himself.
Quote:
[01:57] <+c4eva> other drives are on the agenda
[01:58] <+c4eva> Even hitachi!
[01:58] <n8ofsp8ds> preferred SS v2 ? what if its v1
[01:58] <+c4eva> SS v2 is best, yes!
[02:00] <chieftex> THE question is - do we flash to stock first before accepting any updates from LIVE?
[02:00] <+c4eva> chieftex:that will be answered soon!
[04:20] <+RapStar> leaked fw was the same as this one people say
[04:21] <+c4eva> rapstar:no its not
[04:32] <+c4eva> ss v1 created using a 360 drive is fine, kreon is not!
[04:33] <+DxS> so if u wanna be safe, rip ur own games with a 360 drive
[04:33] <+DxS> 0800 standalone fw
[04:33] <+c4eva> dxs:correct
[18:50] <+c4eva> hello
[18:51] <@[TONE]> has there been changes by m$ yet on the discs?
[18:53] <+c4eva> yes, a very slight change in alignment , wave 3 onwards i think, so as to identify kreon rips!
[18:59] <+lt83850> c4 - elaborate more on calibration data when you get time as well, why was the addition added
now if it wasn't even discussed for months? any additions?
[19:14] <+c4eva> cal data is not accessed by fw code at all but could be used by other processes,its value is
still unknown, but since full dumps are now available, included for correctness
[12:07] <ratodopar> lt has no stealth i guess
[12:07] <+c4eva> LT has full stealth
[12:10] <|avfc2k|> c4eva whats best for banned box wave loading wise the non stealth or LT?
[12:10] <+c4eva> LT
[12:11] <ratodopar> even new games are ssv1
[12:12] <+c4eva> ssv1 from a 360 drive is good!
[12:14] <+c4eva> kreon:wave1 ,wave 2 ok, but 360 drive is always best!
[12:18] <Kushan> Right now SSv1 is fine, SSv2 is only needed if something changes. Splitvid is NEEDED for iXtreme
LT. There you go.
[12:19] <Kushan> when SSv2 is "needed", it'll be for games from that point onwards, not previous game
[12:20] <Kushan> SSv1/SSv2 are a firmware thing from c4eva and co
[12:20] <Kushan> it just refers to the angles used when the game disk is pressed
[12:21] <+c4eva> 359 is left as is, if jitter result is 360 then it is set to 0
PRIVATE MESSAGES ASKING FOR HELP WILL BE IGNORED, USE THE FORUMS TO ASK YOUR QUESTIONS!!!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. February 2010 @ 17:10
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qwert99
Senior Member
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20. February 2010 @ 17:12 |
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I was under the impression that SSv1 was basically shorthand for saying that the SS just contained the same 4 pieces of timing information in every file. Whereas SSv2 meant that there was an actual, complete timing/angle read done by the drive?
If you use an updated 0800 firmware for BenQ, will it still produce SSv1? And if it does produce SSv1, does it mean that it is the same file that a Kreon drive would get, and different from other 0800 drives? Or does it mean that the information is exactly the same as you would get from other 0800 drives, but simply referred to as SSv1?
If that SSv1 file meant anything other than the last option, I'm not sure I would trust it, regardless of what C4e says. I would have to get that information in context, because it is possible that he considers it safe since he does not think MS is even testing SS info at all. I'd rather be more cautious and just fully comply with all security features rather than assuming that they won't put one of them to use, if I am able to do so.
$38 on new discs -- Check
$15 on burn after burn that showed as a DVD -- Check
$11 on new laser -- Check
$28 on new multimeter -- Check
___________________________________
Knowledge from Leerage? -- Priceless
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AfterDawn Addict
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20. February 2010 @ 17:23 |
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To be honest i think the next banwave is gonna be as big if not bigger than the last one, people are putting way to much faith in LT.
First you've got all this ssv1 and v2 crap, then you have must have splitvid, flashing to stock to update the system blah blah blah.
Personally i think C4 has mentioned all these extra precautions to cover himself when the bans come.
Don't forget he was trying to sell it saying that it was ban proof.
He's also said that you'd be better off ripping the games yourself to be sure to get the correct ss version knowing full well that at least 75% of ixtreme users are pirates and that abgx doesn't have ssv2 files for a lot of games.
PRIVATE MESSAGES ASKING FOR HELP WILL BE IGNORED, USE THE FORUMS TO ASK YOUR QUESTIONS!!!
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qwert99
Senior Member
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20. February 2010 @ 17:36 |
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I agree with what you say about unrealistic hopes. I honestly don't even have an online 360 at this point. The possibilities of homebrew interest me much more. I can't wait for some route around Live to be made for homebrew.
A lot of the problems could be solved by merely keeping ABGX up to date. If they would just update the database to only accept SSv2 uploads, and deny SSv1 uploads, it would make the topic of SS into something people wouldn't even bother talking about.
$38 on new discs -- Check
$15 on burn after burn that showed as a DVD -- Check
$11 on new laser -- Check
$28 on new multimeter -- Check
___________________________________
Knowledge from Leerage? -- Priceless
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Dustyboy
Junior Member
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20. February 2010 @ 17:40 |
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I agree i am trying to be as safe as i can but i think come next november the Ban Hammer will come crashing down regardless.
Just making sure i put a few £ a week in my 360 fund box, also hoping they dont ban before November LOL.....
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Senior Member
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20. February 2010 @ 17:44 |
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Originally posted by qwert99:
If you use an updated 0800 firmware for BenQ, will it still produce SSv1? And if it does produce SSv1, does it mean that it is the same file that a Kreon drive would get, and different from other 0800 drives? Or does it mean that the information is exactly the same as you would get from other 0800 drives, but simply referred to as SSv1?
My understanding of this - and I'm no expert by any means - is that Kreon uses pre-set angles (1, 91, 181, 271) and 0800 reads the angles. The difference between SSV1 and SSV2 with an 0800 drive seems to be that with SSV2 those angles are read and stored multiple times rather than just once, presumably for the sake of accuracy. Another consideration is that lower quality burns can affect jitter, which is maybe why the firmware creators made that post on Twitter about using Verbatim discs. Anyways, that's half fact and half an educated guess. One thing I don't understand is why ripping with an 0800 drive would ever result in SSV1, as it appears to for some people.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. February 2010 @ 17:45
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qwert99
Senior Member
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20. February 2010 @ 17:44 |
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Originally posted by Dustyboy:
I agree i am trying to be as safe as i can but i think come next november the Ban Hammer will come crashing down regardless.
Just making sure i put a few £ a week in my 360 fund box, also hoping they dont ban before November LOL.....
Hopefully there will be a price drop this year and getting a new online 360 won't be quite as much money as it is now.
Originally posted by funksoulb:
Originally posted by qwert99:
If you use an updated 0800 firmware for BenQ, will it still produce SSv1? And if it does produce SSv1, does it mean that it is the same file that a Kreon drive would get, and different from other 0800 drives? Or does it mean that the information is exactly the same as you would get from other 0800 drives, but simply referred to as SSv1?
My understanding of this - and I'm no expert by any means - is that Kreon uses pre-set angles (1, 91, 181, 271) and 0800 reads the angles. The difference between SSV1 and SSV2 with an 0800 drive seems to be that with SSV2 those angles are read and stored multiple times rather than just once, presumably for the sake of accuracy. Another consideration is that lower quality burns can affect jitter, which is maybe why the firmware creators made that post on Twitter about using Verbatim discs. Anyways, that's half fact and half an educated guess. One thing I don't understand is why ripping with an 0800 drive would ever result in SSV1, as it appears to for some people.
I wonder if SS is detected by file size, or the angle count or something. I am thinking that maybe Kreon drives just always dump the default angles, whereas an 0800 drive that is reporting SSv1 (which, as I read it, is only a bug in 1 particular early firmware) reports only 4 angles, but angles that are actually measured and not the default angles? However, ABGX sees only 4 angles present and will report SSv1? Just a guess.
It'd be nice if Team Jungle would post more information about the situation, so we could make better decisions. I would like to believe that they aren't saying more due to considerations for not letting MS know exactly what is going on. I have other ideas about that as well, though.
$38 on new discs -- Check
$15 on burn after burn that showed as a DVD -- Check
$11 on new laser -- Check
$28 on new multimeter -- Check
___________________________________
Knowledge from Leerage? -- Priceless
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. February 2010 @ 17:51
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qwert99
Senior Member
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20. February 2010 @ 17:51 |
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<snip>
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. February 2010 @ 17:52
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Senior Member
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20. February 2010 @ 18:07 |
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Originally posted by qwert99:
I wonder if SS is detected by file size, or the angle count or something. I am thinking that maybe Kreon drives just always dump the default angles, whereas an 0800 drive that is reporting SSv1 (which, as I read it, is only a bug in 1 particular early firmware) reports only 4 angles, but angles that are actually measured and not the default angles? However, ABGX sees only 4 angles present and will report SSv1? Just a guess.
That would certainly explain it. You can see the difference between the 2 just by opening the SS files in abgx.
SSV1 for AC2: -
SSV2 for AC2: -
Another thing I don't understand though, is if those 4 angles are used for c/r tests, why is an SSV1 with a Kreon rip always unacceptable? Surely it should only be unacceptable if the SSV2 (or SSV1 with 0800) shows that the angles have changed? Perhaps I'm over-simplifying things due to my lack of understanding, but it seems that there are basically 4 numbers (angles) used in the tests and up to now, those numbers have always been the same (give or take some acceptable deviation). Unless the deviation was too high, or the angles change on the original disc, I can't see how it makes any difference whether you use SSV1 Kreon or SSV2 0800 at this time. I'm not saying it doesn't make a difference BTW - I just can't understand the logic behind it considering AC2 is a wave 4 game and yet it still shows the same 1, 91, 181 and 271 angles that games have always used no matter whether you use SSV1 or SSV2. I understand that going forward SSV2 is the way to go because if the angles do change, then you would need to read them and Kreon would be no good at all, but that doesn't seem to have happened with any games released up to this point.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. February 2010 @ 18:14
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qwert99
Senior Member
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20. February 2010 @ 18:13 |
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Originally posted by funksoulb:
Another thing I don't understand though, is if those 4 angles are used for c/r tests, why is an SSV1 with a Kreon rip always unacceptable? Surely it should only be unacceptable if the SSV2 (or SSV1 with 0800) shows that the angles have changed? Perhaps I'm over-simplifying things due to my lack of understanding, but it seems that there are basically 4 numbers (angles) used in the tests and up to now, those numbers have always been the same. Unless the deviation was too high, or the angles change on the original disc, I can't see how it makes any difference whether you use SSV1 Kreon or SSV2 0800 at this time. I'm not saying it doesn't make a difference BTW - I just can't understand the logic behind it.
Some possibilities are that Microsoft didn't bother with it previously, since developing techniques to control system modification requires some time to plan, or that maybe imprecise angles affects the drive response time and jitter.
Another strong candidate is that SSv1 just isn't what the disc contains, and it is easy to do a comparison on the info between a legit game and a backup copy of the game and see that some information is incomplete.
$38 on new discs -- Check
$15 on burn after burn that showed as a DVD -- Check
$11 on new laser -- Check
$28 on new multimeter -- Check
___________________________________
Knowledge from Leerage? -- Priceless
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Senior Member
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20. February 2010 @ 18:24 |
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Originally posted by qwert99:
Another strong candidate is that SSv1 just isn't what the disc contains, and it is easy to do a comparison on the info between a legit game and a backup copy of the game and see that some information is incomplete.
I don't think it's that, because if you compare the 2 images above, the only thing that's changed is the info stored for challenge types 5 and 7, but the actual results produced are close to identical. There's a deviation column in both images showing how far the angles are from the target, so they're obviously still basing that on the 4 angles that have always been used.
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