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Software industry lobbyists claim open source promotes piracy
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The following comments relate to this news article:
article published on 25 February, 2010
It's nothing new to see copyright lobbyists making absurd claims about the evils of piracy, but a group called the International Intellectual Property Alliance (IIPA) has sunk to a new low. In a report to the office of the US Trade Representative (USTR) they claim that merely encouraging the use of free or open source software by government agencies promotes piracy.
The report was submitted ... [ read the full article ]
Please read the original article before posting your comments.
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NeoGeoz
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1 product review
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25. February 2010 @ 13:23 |
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Pathetic is right!
Sleazy, slimy, slippery...are other words that come to mind.
These guys never give up.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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25. February 2010 @ 13:54 |
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Uummm......lul wat? So you let me guess this right..... something that dose not have a trade marked copy right is a crime against copy right?
No wonder the RIAA thinks they have the right to gain royalties for music thats not part of their organization....
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Member
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25. February 2010 @ 14:51 |
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Disgusted after reading this.
Makes me want to go pirate something.
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Senior Member
4 product reviews
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25. February 2010 @ 17:31 |
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Originally posted by kiwi1:
Disgusted after reading this.
Makes me want to go pirate something.
to late.
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Senior Member
2 product reviews
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26. February 2010 @ 08:15 |
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and this is actually going to make what type of impact?
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Moderator
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26. February 2010 @ 08:20 |
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Quote:
they claim that merely encouraging the use of free or open source software by government agencies promotes piracy.
What ?
What ?
What ?
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leglessoz
Junior Member
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28. February 2010 @ 07:55 |
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Microsoft really takes the cake. It uses other peoples' software as a basis for its own then when taken to task over it simply buys out the other company. Good open source and free software only seems to be a problem for companies who aren't making money from it.
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Junior Member
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4. March 2010 @ 06:27 |
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Originally posted by leglessoz:
Microsoft really takes the cake. It uses other peoples' software as a basis for its own then when taken to task over it simply buys out the other company. Good open source and free software only seems to be a problem for companies who aren't making money from it.
I think this is being a little hard on Microsoft. (probably thinking wtf right?)
Microsoft has Open source programs and software lol. So it's not really fair to say all they care about is the money. (I know I was shocked the first time I found out as well)
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4. March 2010 @ 06:47 |
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Quote:
Microsoft has Open source programs
Yes, I'm sure it's all through their closed source code.
Science, in my understanding, is (by definition) free. I should, from this fact, conclude that science discourages creativity, and it would profit developing countries to discourage its use. I'm working on that.
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bluedogs
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4. March 2010 @ 08:24 |
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[quoteI think this is being a little hard on Microsoft. (probably thinking wtf right?)
Microsoft has Open source programs and software lol. So it's not really fair to say all they care about is the money. (I know I was shocked the first time I found out as well)
Seriously? What drugs do they supply you at the hospital. M$ are only interested in the $, face it, if they were not ALL their stuff would be open source.
If open source encourages piracy then it must also mean that every company or individual that creates open source software or whatever should be taken to court and charged with it .... and that also means M$ ..... oops thats right, M$ has NEVER copied ANYONES ideas EVER.................
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Virgil_B
Junior Member
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4. March 2010 @ 09:41 |
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Unbelievable, simply unbelievable. What a bunch of horse dung. If the BSA produced reasonably priced software people would buy it. Open source programs permits people to have access to programs that are free (unless you want to contribute to the programming effort) and provide the same result. For example; Open Office does a jam up job as an office suite. It could give Microsoft Office a run for it's money. I simply have to take the opposite position. Without open source you would have more piracy.
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iggy8n
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4. March 2010 @ 09:47 |
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The lobbying industry is about buying politician votes to get what the corporation wants. It's the way our government is run. We bellyache about the Dems and Reps not doing anything. We moan about Obama not making the changes he promised. But, we just accept the fact that the corporate money and lobbyists are openly spending money to push their point of view.
I used to think that laws were passed for the good of the people. But why are there so many lobbyists in Washington? The politicians like them because they pay for their re-elections.
Money is what it's all about. If you support some idea, you contribute money to that website. We're all doing it. What a country - freedom for all who have checking accounts.
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Daniel_1
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4. March 2010 @ 10:58 |
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Let me see if I got this right. These guys are pissed because the open source groups can do what these complainers are doing at a cheaper price and it works much better and is more stable? Nobody wold not agree that Open Office is doing the exact same thing that MS Office can do and is free PLUS is compliant with all MS Office documents. Or RedHat/Unix/Linux do the exact same thing as MAC and MS's os's and are free instead of costing between $500 and $1500 dollars.
Of course these people are going nutzoid! The more people who find out about open source the more people that are going to move from buying it to the open source. I mean look what mozilla and firefox have done to Internet Explorer and Apple's browsers...
The writing is on the wall and this is why they are going bats%$t! Lower your costs and price, or die.
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Mez
AfterDawn Addict
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4. March 2010 @ 12:00 |
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Originally posted by Daniel_1:
Let me see if I got this right. These guys are pissed because the open source groups can do what these complainers are doing at a cheaper price and it works much better and is more stable? Nobody wold not agree that Open Office is doing the exact same thing that MS Office can do and is free PLUS is compliant with all MS Office documents. Or RedHat/Unix/Linux do the exact same thing as MAC and MS's os's and are free instead of costing between $500 and $1500 dollars.
Of course these people are going nutzoid! The more people who find out about open source the more people that are going to move from buying it to the open source. I mean look what mozilla and firefox have done to Internet Explorer and Apple's browsers...
The writing is on the wall and this is why they are going bats%$t! Lower your costs and price, or die.
That is right. How dare they make better software then give it away! Their ought to be a law and that is exactly what they are trying to do. They are too bloated to make their software better of cheaper. They can only use that bloatedness to crap on their competition. Crap hundreds of lawyers their way to infest them like body lice to suck out their blood. I think that is their only viable option.
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hermes_vb
Senior Member
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4. March 2010 @ 13:44 |
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BSA = Bull $h!t Alliance.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. March 2010 @ 13:45
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dpilarz
Newbie
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4. March 2010 @ 17:06 |
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Not only are the IIPA lobbyists foolish, they're liars too. One of the objectives to promoting open source software is to create a context for users to need paid support services. Some users may not need it. Many, however are happy to lean on the paid assistance of the open source suppliers to provide extended support ensuring the fullest use of the software. Software support services can be a source of more continuous and articulated income than the sale of software.So, hardly does open source software promote piracy: it encourages a healthy IT infrastructure and support industry.
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AfterDawn Addict
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5. March 2010 @ 01:20 |
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I beg to differ...
I trialed Dvd Rebuilder. Liked it a lot. I am aware of ways of obtaining the software for free. I believed the programmer deserved some return. I BOUGHT IT! There are SOME sensible people in this world LOL! And when BD rebuilder has passed beta testing, I'll buy it as well. In a heart beat.
Microsoft allowed many of us to trial their beta of windows 7. Like is an understatement. Its even better than XP as far as I'm concerned. Don't know about the 32bit version though. I'll be purchasing Windows 7 as well.
Support our programmers :) One day, I may be one :D If developers like Rockstar games, don't get some return, they can't produce games like Grand Theft Auto IV. My favorite game by the way :p
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Daniel_1
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5. March 2010 @ 11:29 |
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Originally posted by omegaman7:
I beg to differ...
I trialed Dvd Rebuilder. Liked it a lot. I am aware of ways of obtaining the software for free. I believed the programmer deserved some return. I BOUGHT IT! There are SOME sensible people in this world LOL! And when BD rebuilder has passed beta testing, I'll buy it as well. In a heart beat.
Microsoft allowed many of us to trial their beta of windows 7. Like is an understatement. Its even better than XP as far as I'm concerned. Don't know about the 32bit version though. I'll be purchasing Windows 7 as well.
Support our programmers :) One day, I may be one :D If developers like Rockstar games, don't get some return, they can't produce games like Grand Theft Auto IV. My favorite game by the way :p
You are NOT being sensible. I dont mind paying for software but there is no way in hell you are going to convince me that Adobe Photoshop CS4 is worth $1500.! NOR are you going to convince me or anyone else that MS Office is worth damn near $400. or MS Windows 7 Ultimate is worth $400. either! And lets not even start with MAC's Master Cut which they have at $8995.00!! I fully agree in supporting our programmers but NOT when they expect me to take out a second mortgage to pay for the bloody thing, especially in this economy! Knock it down to something reasonable:
MS/MAC OS's TOP COST $150 to 180.
Adobe Photoshop CS4 TOP COST $220.
MAC Master Cut TOP COST $300.
Until these idiots see that they are pricing themselves OUT of the market, then you know as well as I that piracy will continue. The dirty little secret that the programmers DONT want you to know is that when the prices are reasonable to the customer, piracy is cut to less then 2 or 3% instead of the 15 to 20% they have now and everyone still makes money. Dont try and tell me otherwise as I have beta tested over 2000 programs and I hear it every day from programmers-coders-etc, but that common sense does not seem to trickle up to the bosses who are greedy as hell and want to sock the customer for every dime they think they can get and all the while whining and complaining about how their programs are being pirated because they cost too damn much. Lets take a test...lower your prices and see what happens...I bet they will be shocked as if people can afford the stuff, they have no reason to get the pirated stuff now do they?
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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5. March 2010 @ 13:19 |
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LOL! Clearly I should have explained further. While I find Adobe CS2/3/4 remarkable, you're correct. Charging $1500+ is ridiculous! Though I don't know. Adobe's CS is some of the smartest code I've seen yet. Besides, they have MULTIPLE programs rolled into one. You can buy each one separate as far as I know.
Windows 7 ultimate is nearly pointless to buy, depending on who you are. And for a builder, 130$ is a fair price for the professional windows 7 OS. What would you have them charge $1...
If people don't wanna spend the money, there are other options, e.g. Linux...
Apple/mac annoys me though. Making programs like Final cut studio ONLY available for that platform is Horse $h!T. Unacceptable. THAT makes people want to pirate, and run Virtual machines.
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AfterDawn Addict
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5. March 2010 @ 13:35 |
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Well Maya,3Dmax,Adobe,ect what I call pro ware is meant for business, its not that viable to make a crippled down consumer version or even a full version that can not be used for business. When you make proware you have to support professionals which 8 times out of 10 know what they are doing. When you support the more simplistic consumer market 9 times out of ten you are wasting your time on morons.
So there is a reasonable reason why you have a huge gap in proware and consumer stuff. Tho I think they would make more profit if they offered a 3-10$ a month subscription to use the software in non for profit ways. All in all I think that they do not care if you pirate it to learn it to get into business with the bought version but are to corporate to say or really do something about it.
IMO Open Source is meant to supplement the cost and time of development on one entity, it can work if people stop wanting to control every bit of a IP/CP and focus more on what they can gain from one aspect of it.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. March 2010 @ 13:38
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AfterDawn Addict
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5. March 2010 @ 13:43 |
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Originally posted by zippyDSM:
Well Maya,3Dmax,Adobe,ect what I call pro ware is meant for business, its not that viable to make a crippled down consumer version or even a full version that can not be used for business. When you make proware you have to support professionals which 8 times out of 10 know what they are doing. When you support the more simplistic consumer market 9 times out of ten you are wasting your time on morons.
Well put! :)
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AfterDawn Addict
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5. March 2010 @ 14:01 |
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Quote:
Originally posted by zippyDSM:
Well Maya,3Dmax,Adobe,ect what I call pro ware is meant for business, its not that viable to make a crippled down consumer version or even a full version that can not be used for business. When you make proware you have to support professionals which 8 times out of 10 know what they are doing. When you support the more simplistic consumer market 9 times out of ten you are wasting your time on morons.
Well put! :)
Ya its a shame too they can do something for the costumer market , doing a subscription model where X % of what you bring in goes for paying all the fees and cost you incur as a business for such a pay model. I mean alot of us geeks to just get legit access to the forums so we can enter and make better the community of the pro ware, we would be happy to shell out 100ish a year for it. Sure it can't be used for business and we have to do most consumer help ourselves but really damned if you do damned if you don't.
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Daniel_1
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5. March 2010 @ 21:34 |
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PUH-Leaze people...dumbing down? wasting your time on morons? Need I remind all of you people that EVERY SINGLE ONE of you were a n00b at one time? EVERY SINGLE ONE of you had no bloody idea how to build a computer let alone run any OS's or programs! What if the Coders and such had taken your statement to heart...exactly then just HOW MANY OF YOU would even be where you are today or have the knowledge you have?? The answer..not many. And for you to make that statement is elitist and out of touch with the real world. These people could very easily make this a two tier system for support and not have to change one iota of their program while lowering their cost. They already do this with Student versions of the programs! I have a friend that is the Tech manager at IPFW (Indiana Perdue at Ft.Wayne) and his yearly budget is over 5 million dollars to buy software with VL licensing (Volume Licensing) which is in turn sold to the students for $50 to $80 a disc! Now you trying to tell me that they cannot do the same thing for the public? What the heck are you smoking??? MAC and MS alone get fully 52% of their gross sales from VL sales to Colleges and Universities so they are not losing any money at all. Hell even MS did this for windows 7 and gave it a 3 install license and sold it to the general public! So I dont know what you guys are talking about but these people CAN lower their prices and not sacrifice the quality of their "ehem" programs and STILL make a boatload of cash. They are just too damn greedy to do this and as long as they dont do there will be piracy at 20% or more. You want proof this works? Simple. Look at what happened after Napster was taken down and then made legit as well as other mp3 sites popping up where you could purchase songs legally. The RIAA shockingly showed a massive INCREASE in cd sales as well as sales from these sites and a drastic cut in pirated songs to the tune of close to 12% from an all time high of 22% pirated music. It was only after they started to close quite a few of these sites that the piracy of music started to creep upword, the repoened some of the sites and the piracy of music fell in equal ratio. If it has been shown this works for music sales, dont even try and claim that it wont work for software.
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AfterDawn Addict
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5. March 2010 @ 22:36 |
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Originally posted by Daniel_1:
PUH-Leaze people...dumbing down? wasting your time on morons? Need I remind all of you people that EVERY SINGLE ONE of you were a n00b at one time? EVERY SINGLE ONE of you had no bloody idea how to build a computer let alone run any OS's or programs! What if the Coders and such had taken your statement to heart...exactly then just HOW MANY OF YOU would even be where you are today or have the knowledge you have?? The answer..not many. And for you to make that statement is elitist and out of touch with the real world. These people could very easily make this a two tier system for support and not have to change one iota of their program while lowering their cost. They already do this with Student versions of the programs! I have a friend that is the Tech manager at IPFW (Indiana Perdue at Ft.Wayne) and his yearly budget is over 5 million dollars to buy software with VL licensing (Volume Licensing) which is in turn sold to the students for $50 to $80 a disc! Now you trying to tell me that they cannot do the same thing for the public? What the heck are you smoking??? MAC and MS alone get fully 52% of their gross sales from VL sales to Colleges and Universities so they are not losing any money at all. Hell even MS did this for windows 7 and gave it a 3 install license and sold it to the general public! So I dont know what you guys are talking about but these people CAN lower their prices and not sacrifice the quality of their "ehem" programs and STILL make a boatload of cash. They are just too damn greedy to do this and as long as they dont do there will be piracy at 20% or more. You want proof this works? Simple. Look at what happened after Napster was taken down and then made legit as well as other mp3 sites popping up where you could purchase songs legally. The RIAA shockingly showed a massive INCREASE in cd sales as well as sales from these sites and a drastic cut in pirated songs to the tune of close to 12% from an all time high of 22% pirated music. It was only after they started to close quite a few of these sites that the piracy of music started to creep upword, the repoened some of the sites and the piracy of music fell in equal ratio. If it has been shown this works for music sales, dont even try and claim that it wont work for software.
*sigh*
Sorry not even close you are confusing the stuff industry uses to develop stuff on and the stuff consumers and consumer business's use for day to day work. Heres a hint one of these come in a reduced price student edition and one dose not because its not aimed at/for any part of the consumer spectrum, business or other wise.
Now overlooking the brunt of your word block of gibberish I will agree they need to do more but its very unlikely as thats not a sector they care to fool with as its like telling the US car industry to stop making over priced(anything over 20K) gas guzzling(anything using less than 30MPG) and make cheap 5-10K 2 passenger compact vehicles instead.
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scum101
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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5. March 2010 @ 22:45 |
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yada yada yada.. time for a member of the FSF to put a few points into this argument..
M$ bought.. yes BOUGHT a linux business (novell) by threatening them with some spiel about "software patent infringement" .. M$ have always point blank refused to state exactly which patents are being "infringed" .. so a logical person would say "lied, damn lies" and call their bluff..
We know where that gets any business.. that's right.. tied up in years and years of pointless litigating and court actions from M$ until they are forced to sell up whatever they hold or go out of business. M$ learned so very well from Sco how to stamp on competition, and do it very well.
Now as for "student" versions of programs.. well whoopydoo.. don't you idiots see the simple fact of the matter in that? .. supplying reduced price software to places of education turns people learning into dumb consumers of a product. When they have learned how to use the proprietary software having NEVER seen any alternatives they then go into work and business needing that same product to function. They demand it from managers. when a whole team ONLY knows how to use excel then that is what the company has to provide.. especially as the people in charge of purchase decisions also have the same sponsored proprietary software "education"
Sopnsored and cut price "student" software is immoral in the extreme.. especially as free open source alternatives are readily available.
This "attack" (read blatant and outright lies.. I run a comp-letely free and 100% legal operating system.. all my software is 100% free and legal) is just that.. a fabrication built on the same tired lies we are sick to death hearing. The crime here is the way M$ and others have been allowed by governments to get into a position where they and their friends can make statements based on total fabrication and not get sued off the planet by governments and rights groups.
If I was a government technology minister I would enforce the antitrust proven case against M$ and have their products removed from all state funded departments immediately.. That means out of schools and universitys.. out of hospitals and police services.. and everywhere else it was possible. The saving in software costs alone would pay for the change within the budget year.. following that by having them taken from the shelves in stores and off every pc for sale.. unless the customer actually wanted it, then they can buy a full price retail version and install it themselves while being faces with rack upon rack of open source operating systems and things like open office for pennies as a fair and legitimate customer choice.. Put these monopolists in a "fair level" market and watch how long they survive.,. because right now it is nothing like a level playing field... end the "retailer and manufacturer" kickback.
So no more apologists please.. These corporations and their lobby groups friends are our sworn enemies.. they want to take away ALL our rights and freedoms and turn us into nothing but sheep consumers whth no idea how our hardware runs, or what it runs.. Hell people.. M$ don't even want your computer to belong to you.. if you run a M$ operating system you own nothing.. you have very little say in what it does or who it tells about what you do or how you do it. If they decide you have "stolen" something they will take it from you or disable your system totally until you pay again.. prove beyond a shadow of a doubt you paid for it (at great cost on a premium rate number).. or go and pirate.... OR the one choice all the apologists and paid bloggers would not have you know about.. The free alternative.
Free software belongs to everybody. The operating system and programs on my computer belong to me as much as the hardware it runs on.. unlike anything where you click "I agree" to some great lump of legal crap (which strips ALL your ownership rights whether you have paid or not) before putting in your "unique" key.
http://en.windows7sins.org/
http://www.fsf.org/
PPW .. paid up member
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