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The following comments relate to this news article:

Software industry lobbyists claim open source promotes piracy

article published on 25 February, 2010

It's nothing new to see copyright lobbyists making absurd claims about the evils of piracy, but a group called the International Intellectual Property Alliance (IIPA) has sunk to a new low. In a report to the office of the US Trade Representative (USTR) they claim that merely encouraging the use of free or open source software by government agencies promotes piracy. The report was submitted ... [ read the full article ]

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5. March 2010 @ 23:08 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by scum101:
yada yada yada.. time for a member of the FSF to put a few points into this argument..

M$ bought.. yes BOUGHT a linux business (novell) by threatening them with some spiel about "software patent infringement" .. M$ have always point blank refused to state exactly which patents are being "infringed" .. so a logical person would say "lied, damn lies" and call their bluff..

We know where that gets any business.. that's right.. tied up in years and years of pointless litigating and court actions from M$ until they are forced to sell up whatever they hold or go out of business. M$ learned so very well from Sco how to stamp on competition, and do it very well.

Now as for "student" versions of programs.. well whoopydoo.. don't you idiots see the simple fact of the matter in that? .. supplying reduced price software to places of education turns people learning into dumb consumers of a product. When they have learned how to use the proprietary software having NEVER seen any alternatives they then go into work and business needing that same product to function. They demand it from managers. when a whole team ONLY knows how to use excel then that is what the company has to provide.. especially as the people in charge of purchase decisions also have the same sponsored proprietary software "education"
Sopnsored and cut price "student" software is immoral in the extreme.. especially as free open source alternatives are readily available.

This "attack" (read blatant and outright lies.. I run a comp-letely free and 100% legal operating system.. all my software is 100% free and legal) is just that.. a fabrication built on the same tired lies we are sick to death hearing. The crime here is the way M$ and others have been allowed by governments to get into a position where they and their friends can make statements based on total fabrication and not get sued off the planet by governments and rights groups.

If I was a government technology minister I would enforce the antitrust proven case against M$ and have their products removed from all state funded departments immediately.. That means out of schools and universitys.. out of hospitals and police services.. and everywhere else it was possible. The saving in software costs alone would pay for the change within the budget year.. following that by having them taken from the shelves in stores and off every pc for sale.. unless the customer actually wanted it, then they can buy a full price retail version and install it themselves while being faces with rack upon rack of open source operating systems and things like open office for pennies as a fair and legitimate customer choice.. Put these monopolists in a "fair level" market and watch how long they survive.,. because right now it is nothing like a level playing field... end the "retailer and manufacturer" kickback.

So no more apologists please.. These corporations and their lobby groups friends are our sworn enemies.. they want to take away ALL our rights and freedoms and turn us into nothing but sheep consumers whth no idea how our hardware runs, or what it runs.. Hell people.. M$ don't even want your computer to belong to you.. if you run a M$ operating system you own nothing.. you have very little say in what it does or who it tells about what you do or how you do it. If they decide you have "stolen" something they will take it from you or disable your system totally until you pay again.. prove beyond a shadow of a doubt you paid for it (at great cost on a premium rate number).. or go and pirate.... OR the one choice all the apologists and paid bloggers would not have you know about.. The free alternative.

Free software belongs to everybody. The operating system and programs on my computer belong to me as much as the hardware it runs on.. unlike anything where you click "I agree" to some great lump of legal crap (which strips ALL your ownership rights whether you have paid or not) before putting in your "unique" key.

http://en.windows7sins.org/

http://www.fsf.org/

PPW .. paid up member
Can you define why all software is free? its like saying all media is free.... you are robbing humanity when you sell it!!!!!11111111

:P

Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.
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6. March 2010 @ 00:21 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by Daniel_1:
PUH-Leaze people...dumbing down? wasting your time on morons? Need I remind all of you...

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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. March 2010 @ 00:22

Daniel_1
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6. March 2010 @ 11:03 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Quote:
Originally posted by Daniel_1:
PUH-Leaze people...dumbing down? wasting your time on morons? Need I remind all of you people that EVERY SINGLE ONE of you were a n00b at one time? EVERY SINGLE ONE of you had no bloody idea how to build a computer let alone run any OS's or programs! What if the Coders and such had taken your statement to heart...exactly then just HOW MANY OF YOU would even be where you are today or have the knowledge you have?? The answer..not many. And for you to make that statement is elitist and out of touch with the real world. These people could very easily make this a two tier system for support and not have to change one iota of their program while lowering their cost. They already do this with Student versions of the programs! I have a friend that is the Tech manager at IPFW (Indiana Perdue at Ft.Wayne) and his yearly budget is over 5 million dollars to buy software with VL licensing (Volume Licensing) which is in turn sold to the students for $50 to $80 a disc! Now you trying to tell me that they cannot do the same thing for the public? What the heck are you smoking??? MAC and MS alone get fully 52% of their gross sales from VL sales to Colleges and Universities so they are not losing any money at all. Hell even MS did this for windows 7 and gave it a 3 install license and sold it to the general public! So I dont know what you guys are talking about but these people CAN lower their prices and not sacrifice the quality of their "ehem" programs and STILL make a boatload of cash. They are just too damn greedy to do this and as long as they dont do there will be piracy at 20% or more. You want proof this works? Simple. Look at what happened after Napster was taken down and then made legit as well as other mp3 sites popping up where you could purchase songs legally. The RIAA shockingly showed a massive INCREASE in cd sales as well as sales from these sites and a drastic cut in pirated songs to the tune of close to 12% from an all time high of 22% pirated music. It was only after they started to close quite a few of these sites that the piracy of music started to creep upword, the repoened some of the sites and the piracy of music fell in equal ratio. If it has been shown this works for music sales, dont even try and claim that it wont work for software.
*sigh*
Sorry not even close you are confusing the stuff industry uses to develop stuff on and the stuff consumers and consumer business's use for day to day work. Heres a hint one of these come in a reduced price student edition and one dose not because its not aimed at/for any part of the consumer spectrum, business or other wise.

Now overlooking the brunt of your word block of gibberish I will agree they need to do more but its very unlikely as thats not a sector they care to fool with as its like telling the US car industry to stop making over priced(anything over 20K) gas guzzling(anything using less than 30MPG) and make cheap 5-10K 2 passenger compact vehicles instead.
Not confusing anything Zippy. What I am saying is that if they can do this for one, they can do it for all and still make money so there is no reason for them to be whining. Nothing more, nothing less.
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6. March 2010 @ 11:11 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Quote:
Now as for "student" versions of programs.. well whoopydoo.. don't you idiots see the simple fact of the matter in that? .. supplying reduced price software to places of education turns people learning into dumb consumers of a product. When they have learned how to use the proprietary software having NEVER seen any alternatives they then go into work and business needing that same product to function. They demand it from managers. when a whole team ONLY knows how to use excel then that is what the company has to provide.. especially as the people in charge of purchase decisions also have the same sponsored proprietary software "education"
Sopnsored and cut price "student" software is immoral in the extreme.. especially as free open source alternatives are readily available.
Now who's the idiot? *hint...look in your mirror* If you cannot see that by a student getting software from a reduced price that may lead them into another area like it did with the Makers of RedHat and ALL open source software, then there is just no hope for you in this or any other conversations as you obviously cannot see your nose on your face. How in the bloody heck do you think open source got here if not by people who were disgusted with the software makers gouging everyone? By magic? And how do you think it stays a viable option? Again, by magic? If your next post is as obtuse and full of holes like this one was, do yourself a favor and dont post it thus not making you look more foolish then you already have done to yourself.
swamiolss
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10. March 2010 @ 07:28 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Well well ..
It's somewhat admirable that all the commentators here believe in dialog and good argumentation, versus "Intellectual property rights" and the lobbyists living well off it.
Listen, Friends, there is no way You can make a tobacconist stop peddling his stuff just because people die from using it. He's making good money on it, it is his right and he'll fight like hell anyone who even talks about curbing it because it is harmful. He'll even manage to feel he's in the right and the opponents evil-minded, wicked and conspiratorial. His self-righteousness is boundless!
How can You ever hope to have a meaningful dialog with such people? They are fighting a loosing cause, anyway, and will adjust or die.
I am personally acutely aware of from which places I can obtain whatever software I need, there is no lack of people making it available, gratis or for a small sum. The same with music and film.
But when I obtain a "free" copy of a program or a utility or a film, and find that I like it and would continue to use it, I BUY the damn stuff, because I like it, because I like the ppl. who took the trouble of developing it and because that is the way forward. Obviously, prgs. like Adobe CS, Windows, Mac's OS etc. are far too expensive and these companies are simply begging for piracy. So, let them have it! There is NO WAY it can be stopped - I still remember the old days when software was exchanged among users on copied discs, and music on copied tapes, instead of by download. There are so many ways this can be arranged, and IT WILL BE, if the RIAA and their baboons keep harassing people and governments.
So, Friends, don't enter into heated arguments on this, simply cover Your ass properly, download what You need and You have driven another nail into the goddam coffins of these morality-criminals - criminals, because they are trying to usurp morality and make it their fundamental property.
Strange, that Man only will learn by repeated mistake! People gloat in error!
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10. March 2010 @ 09:50 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by swamiolss:
Well well ..
It's somewhat admirable that all the commentators here believe in dialog and good argumentation, versus "Intellectual property rights" and the lobbyists living well off it.
Listen, Friends, there is no way You can make a tobacconist stop peddling his stuff just because people die from using it. He's making good money on it, it is his right and he'll fight like hell anyone who even talks about curbing it because it is harmful. He'll even manage to feel he's in the right and the opponents evil-minded, wicked and conspiratorial. His self-righteousness is boundless!
How can You ever hope to have a meaningful dialog with such people? They are fighting a loosing cause, anyway, and will adjust or die.
I am personally acutely aware of from which places I can obtain whatever software I need, there is no lack of people making it available, gratis or for a small sum. The same with music and film.
But when I obtain a "free" copy of a program or a utility or a film, and find that I like it and would continue to use it, I BUY the damn stuff, because I like it, because I like the ppl. who took the trouble of developing it and because that is the way forward. Obviously, prgs. like Adobe CS, Windows, Mac's OS etc. are far too expensive and these companies are simply begging for piracy. So, let them have it! There is NO WAY it can be stopped - I still remember the old days when software was exchanged among users on copied discs, and music on copied tapes, instead of by download. There are so many ways this can be arranged, and IT WILL BE, if the RIAA and their baboons keep harassing people and governments.
So, Friends, don't enter into heated arguments on this, simply cover Your ass properly, download what You need and You have driven another nail into the goddam coffins of these morality-criminals - criminals, because they are trying to usurp morality and make it their fundamental property.
Strange, that Man only will learn by repeated mistake! People gloat in error!
You are right, if I have a "crippled" version of software and it does what I want it to do, I BUY the program if it does not force me to give up a first born and an arm and a leg. There is just a limit to what can be charged and expect the masses to pay for it. The RIAA has found this out BIG TIME and has taken steps to lower the cost of the cd's and the MPAA with movie rentals and purchase prices; and according to their own sources they are making more money then they were before. When the Cable companies are forced into 'a-la-carte' channel choosing and pricing by the Congress and the FCC (and yes it is coming as there is a bill in Congress right now that has over 200 sponsors in the House and over 43 sponsors in the Senate) it will force cable companies to allow YOU to pick the channels you want to receive and not the slop they force you to take. They are fighting it even after they were shown they would make more money then ever.

You can lead a horse to water, but you sometimes cannot make it drink without a few slaps upside it's head to show it who's boss. Now I dont condone abuse of animals, but like a child some of them need to be spanked now and again and the businesses above are either getting spanked, or going to be spanked.
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14. March 2010 @ 00:17 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Scum101's remarks I must agree with, completely.

What I find interesting in the report being described is the claim that publication inspired by academic interest is less creative than that paid for, and such publication hinders the creativity of others. Normally, one builds upon such publications, as science is built upon; and as Linux has been built upon (by more than 20,000 applications, most of which are continuously being improved - thanks to the source code and permission of the authors).

The fear that prompted this report, the superior quality of GNU/Linux I am guessing, was likely soothed by the assumption that contributing one's works to civilization must somehow be against the law, since recent statements equate the 'American dream' with excessive greed. However, when I consulted the U.S. Constitution for its position on intellectual property rights, and capitalism in general, I was disappointed. I did, however, remember reading the following from Benjamin Franklin's biography. Franklin therefore contributes here from the grave, discussing his publication of the design of the Franklin stove:

'This pamphlet had a good effect. Governor Thomas was so pleased with the construction of this stove, as described in it, that he offered to give me a patent for the sole vending of them for a term of years; but I declined it from a principle which has ever weighed with me on such occasions, viz., That, as we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and this we should do freely and generously.

'An ironmonger in London, however, assuming a good deal of my pamphlet, and working it up into his own, and making some small changes in the machine, which rather hurt its operation, got a patent for it there, and made, as I was told, a little fortune by it. And this is not the only instance of patents taken out for my inventions by others, tho' not always with the same success, which I never contested, as having no desire of profiting by patents myself, and hating disputes. The use of these fireplaces in very many houses, both of this and the neighboring colonies, has been, and is, a great saving of wood to the inhabitants.'

http://www.ushistory.org/franklin/autobiography/page55.htm

Bruce Bathurst, PhD
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14. March 2010 @ 01:17 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by Gneiss1:
Scum101's remarks I must agree with, completely.

What I find interesting in the report being described is the claim that publication inspired by academic interest is less creative than that paid for, and such publication hinders the creativity of others. Normally, one builds upon such publications, as science is built upon; and as Linux has been built upon (by more than 20,000 applications, most of which are continuously being improved - thanks to the source code and permission of the authors).

The fear that prompted this report, the superior quality of GNU/Linux I am guessing, was likely soothed by the assumption that contributing one's works to civilization must somehow be against the law, since recent statements equate the 'American dream' with excessive greed. However, when I consulted the U.S. Constitution for its position on intellectual property rights, and capitalism in general, I was disappointed. I did, however, remember reading the following from Benjamin Franklin's biography. Franklin therefore contributes here from the grave, discussing his publication of the design of the Franklin stove:

'This pamphlet had a good effect. Governor Thomas was so pleased with the construction of this stove, as described in it, that he offered to give me a patent for the sole vending of them for a term of years; but I declined it from a principle which has ever weighed with me on such occasions, viz., That, as we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and this we should do freely and generously.

'An ironmonger in London, however, assuming a good deal of my pamphlet, and working it up into his own, and making some small changes in the machine, which rather hurt its operation, got a patent for it there, and made, as I was told, a little fortune by it. And this is not the only instance of patents taken out for my inventions by others, tho' not always with the same success, which I never contested, as having no desire of profiting by patents myself, and hating disputes. The use of these fireplaces in very many houses, both of this and the neighboring colonies, has been, and is, a great saving of wood to the inhabitants.'

http://www.ushistory.org/franklin/autobiography/page55.htm

Bruce Bathurst, PhD

Sorry Gneiss1, there is no way anyone can agree with scums statement. how many different items have come about BECUSE of someone in a university or college that took an unfinished idea and ran with it. I mean for craps sake even Gates and Jobs took an unfinished idea of a computer for the home and ran with it and now you have to multi billion dollar empires. And as for these being "crippled"? PUH_LEAZE...My buddy is the head of the IT deparment of IPFW in Ft Wayne (Indiana University?Purdue University Fort Wayne) and is as big as Notre Dame, and EVERY program he buys to resell back to the students is the full working version with a VL/MAK license on it. So to claim that all student copies are "crippled" is not only elitist but very ignorant as well. And in fact if you contact Adobe, they will tell you flat out that they DO NOT sell crippled versions of their programs...I have to give them props for that.

So be VERY careful what you are agreeing with as if you agree with a foolish thing that was said, then you will look as foolish as the person that said it, and in this case it was scum101's remarks
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14. March 2010 @ 01:43 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by bluedogs:
[quoteI think this is being a little hard on Microsoft. (probably thinking wtf right?)

Microsoft has Open source programs and software lol. So it's not really fair to say all they care about is the money. (I know I was shocked the first time I found out as well)
Seriously? What drugs do they supply you at the hospital. M$ are only interested in the $, face it, if they were not ALL their stuff would be open source.

If open source encourages piracy then it must also mean that every company or individual that creates open source software or whatever should be taken to court and charged with it .... and that also means M$ ..... oops thats right, M$ has NEVER copied ANYONES ideas EVER.................
Hey idiot. Before you call someone out. How about you spend 30 seconds on google and actually learn about what you're talking about k?

And im not saying open source OS's. Just developer software and shit like that.
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14. March 2010 @ 02:13 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by Daniel_1:
Sorry Gneiss1, there is no way anyone can agree with scums statement. how many different items have come about BECUSE of someone in a university or college that took an unfinished idea and ran with it.
Well, I don't really know. About 20 000 to 30 000 counts only the latest active versions contributed to the GNU/Linux project. If one want's to learn programming, where does one turn? If it's to Microsoft, then only Microsoft will know how to write an operating system.

Scum101's statement speaks of the obvious, which I prefer to skip. Why discourage donating MS products to universities and third-world countries? Because a computer is a tool. The first operating system you learn, the first philosophy of equating software with toasters rather than intellectual contributions, most keep for life.

A retired university professor who had used only Microsoft bought a Mac for the superior hardware. Then, unfamiliar with the simplicity of an object-oriented user interface, he installed Windows as an applications and re-installed all applications from his Windows XP Home edition. (Although many of his data were in a proprietary format by Microsoft, even these could easily be converted to standard formats.)

The computer user should not be a computer expert: one of the above person's arguments was that he needed to read & write in Microsoft Office XML format, not knowing this was Open Office XML format renamed by Microsoft. He also equated the quality of the software with its price.

These are just some reasons Microsoft should not be allowed to donate free operating systems, no doubt concurrently enjoying a tax write-off. I refer people to Scum101's excellent rant for a summary of such topics, which the Department of Justice has always had serious concerns about.

Please address further trolling to Scum101. :-)
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14. March 2010 @ 04:28 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Off topic But I just had to say LOL:
Originally posted by Gneiss1:
bought a Mac for the superior hardware
Daniel_1
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14. March 2010 @ 09:17 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by Gneiss1:
Originally posted by Daniel_1:
Sorry Gneiss1, there is no way anyone can agree with scums statement. how many different items have come about BECUSE of someone in a university or college that took an unfinished idea and ran with it.
Well, I don't really know. About 20 000 to 30 000 counts only the latest active versions contributed to the GNU/Linux project. If one want's to learn programming, where does one turn? If it's to Microsoft, then only Microsoft will know how to write an operating system.

Scum101's statement speaks of the obvious, which I prefer to skip. Why discourage donating MS products to universities and third-world countries? Because a computer is a tool. The first operating system you learn, the first philosophy of equating software with toasters rather than intellectual contributions, most keep for life.

A retired university professor who had used only Microsoft bought a Mac for the superior hardware. Then, unfamiliar with the simplicity of an object-oriented user interface, he installed Windows as an applications and re-installed all applications from his Windows XP Home edition. (Although many of his data were in a proprietary format by Microsoft, even these could easily be converted to standard formats.)

The computer user should not be a computer expert: one of the above person's arguments was that he needed to read & write in Microsoft Office XML format, not knowing this was Open Office XML format renamed by Microsoft. He also equated the quality of the software with its price.

These are just some reasons Microsoft should not be allowed to donate free operating systems, no doubt concurrently enjoying a tax write-off. I refer people to Scum101's excellent rant for a summary of such topics, which the Department of Justice has always had serious concerns about.

Please address further trolling to Scum101. :-)
I addressed my answer to you because of your trolling response. If you are that sensitive or have your feelings hurt that badly by an answer, then maybe you should troll yourself back to academia as this is the real world and you are gonna get called on foolish answers.
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28. May 2011 @ 17:45 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
When you can't innovate, you regulate. Business as usual...
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