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New Cinavia DRM takes aim at pirates
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The following comments relate to this news article:
article published on 3 March, 2010
FileShareFreak has a very interesting report out today about Cinavia DRM, which is a new audio watermarking technology that takes aim at pirates, and those trying to playback movie downloads via their PlayStation 3s.
The site says the watermarking works by "comparing the source of the audio to the format in which a movie was released (ie theatrical or commercial disc), and if the watermarked ... [ read the full article ]
Please read the original article before posting your comments.
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wakko709
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21. May 2011 @ 15:09 |
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Originally posted by AntiTryst:
360 seems to be cinavia DRM free, for now. Any movie I tried with the DRM on PS3 would lockup, but on the 360 they all played perfectly.
how do I play blu-ray disks on my xbox360
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21. May 2011 @ 15:50 |
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i believe he was referring to DVDs, since many people dL movies, then burn them to DVD, since BR discs are so *^cking expensive...
presently, only BRs have the Cinavia, but that may change soon :( . people rip them to MKVs and share them with others, who then make DVDs.
remember, most downloaders only download because they can't AFFORD to rent them (or buy them for that matter, especially with the economy like it is). some of us may be able to afford to buy BR discs in bulk, but those of us living on a dollar a day (or less) due to bills can barely afford BLANK DVDs, let alone ones with content written on them!
now maybe if they dropped the price of pre-rec DVDs like they said they would when the format first came out...
darkflux
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 21. May 2011 @ 15:52
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corps2012
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28. May 2011 @ 05:51 |
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hi, basically any encryption is digital, i would suggest re encoding a movie with something like super@ where you can select audio and video codecs, use avi but with analogue audio like .wav
if it doesnt work, de multiplex the audio and run the audio through total record which records(captures) audio through the sound card not media player. then multiplex the audio back to the video.
the video will be clean of any encryption!
not sure how Cinavia works but i guess it could be an audio sound which you cannot hear but players pick up. mp3 usually removes ranges which you cannot hear so dropping the bitrate to 128 or less may work. if it is a digital signal then it will be removed in wav format ;-)
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28. May 2011 @ 09:10 |
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dude, not sure if you've been reading the comments page here (it IS pretty lengthy), but reencoding the audio won't work, as this Cinavia $#!+ is hard-coded into the audio stream in many frequencies (somehow all audibly imperceptible). it is the HARDWARE which determines whether or not to PLAY the sound, and it's making me wonder how long it will be before you get false positives, like they did with MacroVision tapes back in the day.
some guy even tried 96kbps audio, and it STILL caught it! the only TRUE way to remove the restrictions, is to remove the part of the firmware which detects the Cinavia in the first place!
since PS3 was MADE to accept firmware updates, alls it would take to fix it would be a decent patch from a skilled coder.
any takers? :)
darkflux
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corps2012
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28. May 2011 @ 10:03 |
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Thanks for the reply, I have read alot of the remarks. My point though is this.
all encryption is digital, i have been taking drm protected content (which would not play on my player and i had the original but some audio tracks wouldn't rip to player) and converting them and removing the DRM of ANY type and creating a audio protection free file.
sometimes we over complicate things. people (developers) no matter how good their protection have to do it within the confins of what they are producing i.e a movie which must be watched and listened to.
video must be visible and audio must be listened to.
They have chosen to embed the encryption in the audio it seems.
Total record has recorded audio for years from the speaker side of the track not before it enters the sound card using the processor like most rippers. it's like holding a microphone up to a speaker and recording the audio that way or a cam cinema rip which are terrible.
i have encoded a file with pcm(wav) audio which was protected next i will demux the audio and video and rerecord the audio track through total record and remux see what happens.
if the new protection is actually a sound then i can see why it cannot be done at present but a filter would get that frequency surely?
i'll post any results here and hope sombody cracks it soon, i use PS3 streaming from media server and only recently encountered this problem. most my films are years old.
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corps2012
Newbie
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28. May 2011 @ 11:07 |
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Originally posted by teikyo30:
Why would anyone stream from a media server to ps3 then to the tv? That makes zero sense to me. Why not just connect directly to the tv via hdmi? Or get a tv with a usb port that accepts video? My Philips plays H.264 and Divx via the USB port. I have my 500 gig external plugged into it. When I have more money for a media server I'll probably have that plugged into it. And, yes, I will get a PS3 and plug that into it, but I won't stream from media server to ps3 to tv.
because the media server drive stays plugged into your router then all you pc's and ps3 can see it, no need to transfer usb drives around, all files can be downloaded to it and often like mine has a remote built in torrent client meaning you can use mobile phone to search torrents and send info to drive which downloads the torrent file then ps3 and others can instantly pick it up and maybe play it remotely on you psp without even going home LOL
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28. May 2011 @ 11:59 |
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Originally posted by corps2012:
Thanks for the reply, I have read alot of the remarks. My point though is this.
all encryption is digital, i have been taking drm protected content (which would not play on my player and i had the original but some audio tracks wouldn't rip to player) and converting them and removing the DRM of ANY type and creating a audio protection free file.
sometimes we over complicate things. people (developers) no matter how good their protection have to do it within the confins of what they are producing i.e a movie which must be watched and listened to.
video must be visible and audio must be listened to.
They have chosen to embed the encryption in the audio it seems.
Total record has recorded audio for years from the speaker side of the track not before it enters the sound card using the processor like most rippers. it's like holding a microphone up to a speaker and recording the audio that way or a cam cinema rip which are terrible.
i have encoded a file with pcm(wav) audio which was protected next i will demux the audio and video and rerecord the audio track through total record and remux see what happens.
if the new protection is actually a sound then i can see why it cannot be done at present but a filter would get that frequency surely?
i'll post any results here and hope sombody cracks it soon, i use PS3 streaming from media server and only recently encountered this problem. most my films are years old.
let me know how that works, i'm interested in hearing it, if you'll pardon the pun :)
the Cinavia protection is not an "encryption", like DRM is, but is rather a wavelength played across multiple frequencies. that being said, even if someone were to get ahold of the original Cinavia "wavelength" code, ripping multiple frequencies out of an entire audio stream might make it sound "starnge" or at least unusual to the human ear. ever try removing a single frequency range from an audio track before? it's not only abit tricky, but afterwards, the audio clip sounds just abit "off".
i'm not saying to give up on it, oh no, just explaining what i know so far.
i've not tried streaming using a media server before, but i've heard from SOME people it doesn't keep the Cinavia from "working". do you still get the warning and muted audio when YOU stream?
darkflux
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corps2012
Newbie
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28. May 2011 @ 13:01 |
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Originally posted by darkflux:
Originally posted by corps2012:
Thanks for the reply, I have read alot of the remarks. My point though is this.
all encryption is digital, i have been taking drm protected content (which would not play on my player and i had the original but some audio tracks wouldn't rip to player) and converting them and removing the DRM of ANY type and creating a audio protection free file.
sometimes we over complicate things. people (developers) no matter how good their protection have to do it within the confins of what they are producing i.e a movie which must be watched and listened to.
video must be visible and audio must be listened to.
They have chosen to embed the encryption in the audio it seems.
Total record has recorded audio for years from the speaker side of the track not before it enters the sound card using the processor like most rippers. it's like holding a microphone up to a speaker and recording the audio that way or a cam cinema rip which are terrible.
i have encoded a file with pcm(wav) audio which was protected next i will demux the audio and video and rerecord the audio track through total record and remux see what happens.
if the new protection is actually a sound then i can see why it cannot be done at present but a filter would get that frequency surely?
i'll post any results here and hope sombody cracks it soon, i use PS3 streaming from media server and only recently encountered this problem. most my films are years old.
let me know how that works, i'm interested in hearing it, if you'll pardon the pun :)
the Cinavia protection is not an "encryption", like DRM is, but is rather a wavelength played across multiple frequencies. that being said, even if someone were to get ahold of the original Cinavia "wavelength" code, ripping multiple frequencies out of an entire audio stream might make it sound "starnge" or at least unusual to the human ear. ever try removing a single frequency range from an audio track before? it's not only abit tricky, but afterwards, the audio clip sounds just abit "off".
i'm not saying to give up on it, oh no, just explaining what i know so far.
i've not tried streaming using a media server before, but i've heard from SOME people it doesn't keep the Cinavia from "working". do you still get the warning and muted audio when YOU stream?
yep when streaming from server connected to router and ps3 wireless still get the message and refuses to play.
has anybody reported a cam avi being stopped? if it is an audio frequency embedded in the stream and just humans cannot hear even a cam would pick it up. i've just converted a film to divx with pcm audio at a low rate on mono just to see. later i'll try ripping the stream then running through totalrecord. see how that works.
thanks for talking and not just flaming, just trying to see how it works. more heads are better than one and sometimes a simple idea can sort things we'll see.
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corps2012
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28. May 2011 @ 13:21 |
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well demuxing fails at the 10.10mins. so it trips up software for seperating the audio, i'll try some old stuff
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29. May 2011 @ 00:55 |
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Originally posted by corps2012:
well demuxing fails at the 10.10mins. so it trips up software for seperating the audio, i'll try some old stuff
i wouldn't give up on demuxing so easily. what software are you using? i've had issues with SOME freeware, but i've never failed yet when using TMPGEnc Xpress.
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corps2012
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29. May 2011 @ 07:17 |
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i'm still trying to mux it back. demux failed using software so i used convertxtodvd to create a dvd image then magicdvd ripper to rip the audio track instead LOL
alot of this new software seems rubbish even totalrecord cannot record on my netbook which i'm using, means installing all again on other pc downstairs. pain in the backside.
was using elcard xmuxer pro but not sure how to use it, i used to use dvdlab years back.
i'll post back and results if i get anywhere thanks
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AfterDawn Addict
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29. May 2011 @ 07:30 |
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What happens if the PS3 is connected to a sound system/AV receiver, and the audio decoding is done at the receiver's end? Or,Forget the PS3 or other DRM junk players...get a nice Boxee, plays everything
like a champ...
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29. May 2011 @ 07:33
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corps2012
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29. May 2011 @ 08:02 |
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it's actually very easy to play the movies i have even with the cinavia encryption as the pc plays fine, i could hook my pc up to tv as i was originally planning.
it's just i have my ps3 hooked up and can't be bothered plugging pc's up it just looks crap LOL
there are loads of ways of playing the videos just ps3 was convenient.
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AfterDawn Addict
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29. May 2011 @ 08:45 |
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Originally posted by corps2012:
...
there are loads of ways of playing the videos just ps3 was convenient.
Was is the key word...By the time you spend an entire hour converting/muxing/demuxing and such, you would be done watching the movie. Sometimes, you just have to cut your losses and make peace...PS3 is a good game console, a pain in the crotch to play many movies. I went for a better player(that's why I suggested the Boxee Box), and never looked back.
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29. May 2011 @ 13:01 |
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Originally posted by cyprusrom:
Was is the key word...By the time you spend an entire hour converting/muxing/demuxing and such, you would be done watching the movie.
yeah, but unlike MOST people, there are those of us who will work HARDER to make life easier for EVERYONE :) i DO love a challenge, and this one is nothing if not challenging! also, i'm of the mind that likes to know how things work, so i can work AROUND them :) the hacking type, really.
but if you want something EASY, why not just use a regular DVD player (Boxee was a good idea, too)? any old cheapo player will play these discs, i just want to have my PS3 working the way I want it to work!
Originally posted by cyprusrom:
What happens if the PS3 is connected to a sound system/AV receiver, and the audio decoding is done at the receiver's end?
i don't believe there is an option for that on PS3 (at least not that i can find), probably for this very reason!
darkflux
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29. May 2011 @ 13:11
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29. May 2011 @ 13:17 |
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Originally posted by corps2012:
i'm still trying to mux it back. demux failed using software so i used convertxtodvd to create a dvd image then magicdvd ripper to rip the audio track instead LOL
alot of this new software seems rubbish even totalrecord cannot record on my netbook which i'm using, means installing all again on other pc downstairs. pain in the backside.
was using elcard xmuxer pro but not sure how to use it, i used to use dvdlab years back.
never had any luck with Elecard software. not that the software itself was crummy, but the drivers and components seemed to just "not work". also, the MPEG decoder it came with ruined my MPEG-2 playback on WMP (i know, i know, it's lame to use WMP).
don't mean to sound pushy, but have you tried TMPGEnc yet? it muxes AND demuxes, and i've never had a situation where it wouldn't work. it's why i still use it ;)
darkflux
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AfterDawn Addict
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29. May 2011 @ 15:53 |
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Originally posted by darkflux:
yeah, but unlike MOST people, there are those of us who will work HARDER to make life easier for EVERYONE :) i DO love a challenge, and this one is nothing if not challenging! also, i'm of the mind that likes to know how things work, so i can work AROUND them :) the hacking type, really.
If you put it that way, it sounds much more like fun!
I used to do stuff just to beat the system, I guess i just got old and found entertainment in different challenges...Like trying to make it to the bathroom in time:).
Have fun mate, good luck cracking this one!
Quote:
i don't believe there is an option for that on PS3 (at least not that i can find), probably for this very reason!
Originally posted by cyprusrom: What happens if the PS3 is connected to a sound system/AV receiver, and the audio decoding is done at the receiver's end?
Not necessarily for this reason, The PS3 came out before Cinavia was invented...
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29. May 2011 @ 18:36 |
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Originally posted by cyprusrom:
Not necessarily for this reason, The PS3 came out before Cinavia was invented...
what i meant was that when they integrated the Cinavia garbage code, they probably put it in where it will run BEFORE it passes off the audio. that's what i would do if i was an evil prick >:)
darkflux
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ceazer
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30. May 2011 @ 08:11 |
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from what I'm reading Cinavia is an audio water mark I have a cam avi copy of a new movie and it errors as well.
If it is an audio water mark it would be the whole length of the movie.
no offense intended to the moderator but all those who are posting here are trying to get a pirated copy of movies to play on ps3 with out Cinavia getting in the way.
Cinavia doesn't upset me although its annoying Sony is just trying to stop pirating if it affects movies you have payed for legally then its wrong but if you didn't pay for it you can't complain.
we all have 2 choices 1 pay for ether cinema or DVD or choice 2 just out smart them by looking for loopholes in Cinavia or the ps3.
Maybe use audio editors to flip the Cinavia audio track and play it over its self to mute out the Cinavia water mark.
p.s recording from t.v or radio is also illegal even if its on TIVO or HD recorder
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ceazer
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30. May 2011 @ 08:17 |
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I'm sorry its not quite a watermarking its an sound more like an audio bar coding which explains why bought DVDs can be played on ps3
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30. May 2011 @ 23:29 |
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Originally posted by ceazer:
no offense intended to the moderator but all those who are posting here are trying to get a pirated copy of movies to play on ps3 with out Cinavia getting in the way.
not ALL of us are like that. some of us are just resentful towards S0ny for putting unnecessary JUNK on our systems without telling us first. at LEAST they warned us before negating our ability to use Linux, but they just snuck this one in without any prior notice. i had one of the EARLIEST MODELS that still played PS2 games without missing a beat! and now it is bogged down with what i would neatly consider to be "bloatware".
also, some of us redo ALL our DVDs so that we can just skip RIGHT TO the movie. can you imagine back in the day buying a VHS videotape and not being able to FAST FORWARD over the previews? this is what it feels like, and now we are being treated like criminals without ever having "pirated" anything (forget my distaste for that term for now)!
Originally posted by ceazer:
p.s recording from t.v or radio is also illegal even if its on TIVO or HD recorder
THAT is utter nonsense... DishNetwork and DirectTV BOTH ofer TIVO-style PVRs to record shows, and in case you missed the court case in the 80's, recording TV for later viewing (and lending to friends, for that matter) is 100% LEGAL (in the U.S. anyways). not sure where you're @, but please don't speak for everyone without considering this website is multi-natinal...
Originally posted by ceazer:
Maybe use audio editors to flip the Cinavia audio track and play it over its self to mute out the Cinavia water mark.
...that actually gives me an idea. once somebody leaks the Cinavia "wavelength" sound clip or whatever, what if you "overwrote" the wavelength with an equally inaudible sound that "blocked out" the sound, so the PS3 wouldn't catch it. kind of like how an old typewriter would block out letters by stamping square "blocks" over the typed letters? just a thought for the community...
darkflux
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Jeffrey_P
Senior Member
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31. May 2011 @ 00:49 |
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Originally posted by wakko709:
Originally posted by AntiTryst:
360 seems to be cinavia DRM free, for now. Any movie I tried with the DRM on PS3 would lockup, but on the 360 they all played perfectly.
how do I play blu-ray disks on my xbox360
Google is your friend.
I just have to laugh.. All the DRM and other copyright protection has never worked. Why these fools keep pouring millions trying to stop pirates would be better spent if these people pull their heads out of their asses and just produce fair price product.
Dumb and dumber everyday.
Jeff.
Cars, Guitars & Radiation.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 31. May 2011 @ 00:50
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Jeffrey_P
Senior Member
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31. May 2011 @ 00:57 |
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Originally posted by dsguardin:
I have no real desire to download The Wolfman, but I was reading on Cinavia's website and what really concerns me is that they want to put this new audio watermark on future DVDs and Blu Ray discs. Right now I have an upconversion DVD player, but I would like to buy a Blu Ray player in the near future, and apparently ALL of the new models will have this crap built in. Guess I'll have to look for an older model on ebay. I looked at the Cinavia list of "integrated product manufacturers", but how on earth do you know if a certain Blu Ray model has this DRM or not? Damn, I hope somebody finds an easy fix for this, but if it's already embedded into the audio, I don't see how AnyDVD is going to be able to do anything about it.
Yes and the RGB supposed to be the, "analog hole" will be gone in 2012.
I really have no comment except these folks who do what they have no clue how A/V works. Analog or digital.
They get paid to slay. If it was legal, I would put them up against a wall and do a Valentines day massacre.
Dumb as dirt...
Jeff
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Jeffrey_P
Senior Member
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31. May 2011 @ 01:08 |
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Originally posted by Jeffrey_P:
Originally posted by dsguardin:
I have no real desire to download The Wolfman, but I was reading on Cinavia's website and what really concerns me is that they want to put this new audio watermark on future DVDs and Blu Ray discs. Right now I have an upconversion DVD player, but I would like to buy a Blu Ray player in the near future, and apparently ALL of the new models will have this crap built in. Guess I'll have to look for an older model on ebay. I looked at the Cinavia list of "integrated product manufacturers", but how on earth do you know if a certain Blu Ray model has this DRM or not? Damn, I hope somebody finds an easy fix for this, but if it's already embedded into the audio, I don't see how AnyDVD is going to be able to do anything about it.
Yes and the RGB supposed to be the, "analog hole" will be gone in 2012.
I really have no comment except these folks who do what they have no clue how A/V works. Analog or digital.
They get paid to slay. If it was legal, I would put them up against a wall and do a Valentines day massacre.
Dumb as dirt...
Jeff
2010? hahahaha
Oh well
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31. May 2011 @ 01:20 |
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Originally posted by Jeffrey_P:
I just have to laugh.. All the DRM and other copyright protection has never worked. Why these fools keep pouring millions trying to stop pirates would be better spent if these people pull their heads out of their asses and just produce fair price product.
i agree. if it was cheaper to buy the discs than it was to copy them, people would just do that (except for those of us who do it just to learn). people were STILL copying BluRays when blank BluRays cost more than prerecorded ones. it's all about learning the new tech's in-and-outs to them :)
darkflux
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