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New Cinavia DRM takes aim at pirates
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The following comments relate to this news article:
article published on 3 March, 2010
FileShareFreak has a very interesting report out today about Cinavia DRM, which is a new audio watermarking technology that takes aim at pirates, and those trying to playback movie downloads via their PlayStation 3s.
The site says the watermarking works by "comparing the source of the audio to the format in which a movie was released (ie theatrical or commercial disc), and if the watermarked ... [ read the full article ]
Please read the original article before posting your comments.
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ddp
Moderator
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31. May 2011 @ 16:58 |
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Jeffrey_P, next time edit your previous post instead of posting 3 in a row as per forum rules.
12. Repeated posts to increase total number of posts is not allowed. Especially if your message is the last in the thread, edit it rather than post a new message.
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
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Jeffrey_P
Senior Member
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31. May 2011 @ 17:06 |
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Originally posted by ddp:
Jeffrey_P, next time edit your previous post instead of posting 3 in a row as per forum rules.
12. Repeated posts to increase total number of posts is not allowed. Especially if your message is the last in the thread, edit it rather than post a new message.
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
I'm sorry, I did what? Sometimes the edit function is not visible.
Certainly I'm not trying to increase my post count. I have better things to do then make myself look like a poster child, posting king and try to be the head of the class.
I apologize I guess....?.?
Jeff
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ddp
Moderator
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31. May 2011 @ 17:29 |
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Jeffrey_P
Senior Member
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31. May 2011 @ 17:34 |
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corps2012
Newbie
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1. June 2011 @ 18:39 |
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I tempenc but none worked on 7 home premium netbook. I used super@ to convert to mpg then oldskool DVDlab to demultiplex. also converting to dvd using convertxtodvd and ripping the audio using magicdvd ripper gave me the audio track.
next i wanted to re-record the sound using totalrecord in order to remove the encryption/code. the version i have is very old so wouldn't recognise the cinemaria.
i set totalrecord to record through the soundcard as i did when recording drm tracks.
started recording fine, then 1 minute into the sound faded in and out a little and a bit scratchy. volume bars in total record for input hit max and stayed there? media player classic contnued to play the audio fine.
on review of the recorded sound played fine for the minute then just high pitched scratch and squeel for the rest of recording.
how can it trip up software which was made years before it's conception?
might try a loop 3.5 jack from speaker to line-in but if it's recorded on cams then there is little chance.
it's beyond what i know and seems it will need a filter to rip it out,
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Newbie
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3. June 2011 @ 21:32 |
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My PS3 just forced me to upgrade to version 2.3
Peace.
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Member
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4. June 2011 @ 08:57 |
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Originally posted by corps2012:
I tempenc but none worked on 7 home premium netbook. I used super@ to convert to mpg then oldskool DVDlab to demultiplex. also converting to dvd using convertxtodvd and ripping the audio using magicdvd ripper gave me the audio track.
next i wanted to re-record the sound using totalrecord in order to remove the encryption/code. the version i have is very old so wouldn't recognise the cinemaria.
i set totalrecord to record through the soundcard as i did when recording drm tracks.
started recording fine, then 1 minute into the sound faded in and out a little and a bit scratchy. volume bars in total record for input hit max and stayed there? media player classic contnued to play the audio fine.
on review of the recorded sound played fine for the minute then just high pitched scratch and squeel for the rest of recording.
how can it trip up software which was made years before it's conception?
might try a loop 3.5 jack from speaker to line-in but if it's recorded on cams then there is little chance.
it's beyond what i know and seems it will need a filter to rip it out,
i'm telling you man, from what i've read and what i myself have experienced, the Cinavia junk is NOT something that affects software. it is inperceptible to the human ear, and is interwoven in the audio, much like the score, so it CANNOT stop a software like TotalRecord. looping the audio should have identical results as capturing directly. TotalRecord has some issues recording certain frequencies (like experienced when viewing a CAM. oftentimes it is the mechanical sounds of the videocam itself that will trip TotalRecord up, NOT the Cinavia mess.
there are no less than 4 different Cinavia codes, depending on the original media, and the "desired" response. NONE of these affect any program that is not designed with it in mind specifically... Cinavia is designed to withstand multiple copyings without losing the "watermark". read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinavia
Cinavia's website and several tech news websites say pretty much the same things.
still, there MUST be a way...
Originally posted by klonk:
My PS3 just forced me to upgrade to version 2.3
Peace.
lol, i wish MINE would force me to upgrade to 2.3!
P.S., don't you mean 3.2? lol
darkflux
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. June 2011 @ 08:59
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Newbie
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4. June 2011 @ 10:05 |
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Originally posted by darkflux:
Originally posted by corps2012:
I tempenc but none worked on 7 home premium netbook. I used super@ to convert to mpg then oldskool DVDlab to demultiplex. also converting to dvd using convertxtodvd and ripping the audio using magicdvd ripper gave me the audio track.
next i wanted to re-record the sound using totalrecord in order to remove the encryption/code. the version i have is very old so wouldn't recognise the cinemaria.
i set totalrecord to record through the soundcard as i did when recording drm tracks.
started recording fine, then 1 minute into the sound faded in and out a little and a bit scratchy. volume bars in total record for input hit max and stayed there? media player classic contnued to play the audio fine.
on review of the recorded sound played fine for the minute then just high pitched scratch and squeel for the rest of recording.
how can it trip up software which was made years before it's conception?
might try a loop 3.5 jack from speaker to line-in but if it's recorded on cams then there is little chance.
it's beyond what i know and seems it will need a filter to rip it out,
i'm telling you man, from what i've read and what i myself have experienced, the Cinavia junk is NOT something that affects software. it is inperceptible to the human ear, and is interwoven in the audio, much like the score, so it CANNOT stop a software like TotalRecord. looping the audio should have identical results as capturing directly. TotalRecord has some issues recording certain frequencies (like experienced when viewing a CAM. oftentimes it is the mechanical sounds of the videocam itself that will trip TotalRecord up, NOT the Cinavia mess.
there are no less than 4 different Cinavia codes, depending on the original media, and the "desired" response. NONE of these affect any program that is not designed with it in mind specifically... Cinavia is designed to withstand multiple copyings without losing the "watermark". read this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinavia
Cinavia's website and several tech news websites say pretty much the same things.
still, there MUST be a way...
Originally posted by klonk:
My PS3 just forced me to upgrade to version 2.3
Peace.
lol, i wish MINE would force me to upgrade to 2.3!
P.S., don't you mean 3.2? lol
Must have been a typo. Actually, System Information tell me I am now at System Software Version 3.61
Sig: The mark of an expert isnt that he knows everything;
Its that he knows where to look everything up!
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Newbie
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4. June 2011 @ 10:49 |
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Still can't type today.
Actually I logged into Playstation Store or Playstation Network first before logging into Netflix. Perhaps it was the Store, Network, or Netflix app that updated. Peace.
Sig: The mark of an expert isnt that he knows everything;
Its that he knows where to look everything up!
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moviegod68
Newbie
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7. June 2011 @ 06:46 |
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I know it's great being able to stream your movies from your pc to your ps3 to watch on your tv, but for the films that have the Cinavia problem, I have a Sumvision Cyclone. It cost me £18 and lets me plug my external hard drive with all my films into it. I then plug it into my tv using a HDMI lead and away I go. I only use it for the films I can't stream, but at least I don't have to worry about converting and burning onto a disk. Until a permanent solution is found, I'm happy with that. Hope that helps some of you, cheers.
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Member
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7. June 2011 @ 10:09 |
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Originally posted by moviegod68:
I know it's great being able to stream your movies from your pc to your ps3 to watch on your tv, but for the films that have the Cinavia problem, I have a Sumvision Cyclone. It cost me £18 and lets me plug my external hard drive with all my films into it. I then plug it into my tv using a HDMI lead and away I go. I only use it for the films I can't stream, but at least I don't have to worry about converting and burning onto a disk. Until a permanent solution is found, I'm happy with that. Hope that helps some of you, cheers.
my TV AND my regular DVD player will play dLed videos. but i WANT to play copied DVDs on my PS3!
it worked before, so i want it to work again!
darkflux
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. June 2011 @ 21:53
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Member
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14. June 2011 @ 19:18 |
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Staff Member
4 product reviews
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14. June 2011 @ 19:44 |
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Member
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14. June 2011 @ 20:29 |
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Originally posted by DVDBack23:
This is fact, it will not work unless the PS3 is on firmware version 3.1 or lower, which i guess is possible but highly unlikely.
yeah. perhaps if it was an older PS3 that was never connected to internet, but any of the new slimline PS3s will likely have Cinavia nested in it somewhere...
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Member
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19. June 2011 @ 21:05 |
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Originally posted by PS3 winner:
Ok i dont know if it works but it worked for me but i was getting the gay cinavia message and then decided to move my ps3 to another tv and it never came up again... i didnt change any settings it just started working. hope this helps
you didn't happen to use different cables to connect, did you?
and about the TVs: was the one that worked an LCD or the older kind?
darkflux
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wagbo
Newbie
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5. July 2011 @ 18:24 |
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do consumers not have any rights in this corrupt digital age?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. July 2011 @ 18:56
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wagbo
Newbie
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5. July 2011 @ 18:53 |
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i have a pioneer bdp 320 i dont play copies on it but im not putting some bullying lockdown virus onto it.
what will happen if they try to put cinavia on the original discs and its loaded onto my player from the actual original disc, without my knowledge or consent?? (didnt sony do this with some drm rootkit a while back? can we trust them not to pull the same anti consumer stunt again?).
what if my player cannot play the latest infected releases because i dont want to load this shit onto my player?
the only way to avoid this crap being forced onto my player from infected discs would be to not update the firmware and TO ONLY PLAY COPIED MOVIES ON IT. myself and many many others would have no choice but to use copies instead of continuing to buy originals!!!!
and another thing- ive read it will be forced on camcorders aswell. imagine- you spend £700 on a top spec camcorder, you buy some blank discs and blu ray recorder from the same manufacturer. you spend over 2 grand and then film your childs first steps or your wedding, you put the movie onto a disc and then it doesnt play because the cinavia disabled it, as some music from somewhere in the background triggers the drm. would you sue the manufacturer for ruining your precious memories? surely the equipment would be unfit for purpose? the so called entertainment industry once again makes money out of consumers and then shits on them big time. we should boycott anti consumer companies and give our money to the ones who actually show us the respect we deserve. if we all took our money elsewhere we could change the destiny of this industry.
there are people all over the world who dont watch copied movies but on principal wouldnt allow sony or any other corporate companies to bully or treat us like this.
innocent consumers like myself all over the world need to know about cinavia and similar issues before its too late.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. July 2011 @ 18:59
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Member
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5. July 2011 @ 19:43 |
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@wagbo:
you don't need to worry about the discs having the Cinavia bull$#!+ on them, it is the players THEMSELVES which now have them. and as of Fall 2009, ALL NEW BLURAY PLAYERS HAVE THEM! this is something that is required by the founders of BluRay apparently. if your BR Player was made in 2010 or later (check for a sticker on the back sometimes), odds are good that it already HAS Cinavia. the only way around this would be to go online and get a model made before Cinavia was around.
also, Cinavia is indicated by the disc, and the indicator is encoded into the disc. the PLAYER detects which indicator is being played, and then blocks and pops up the appropriate message. your camcorder would only ENCODE using Cinavia if you TOLD it to. what YOU read is probably that running an audio/video feed thru a camcorder (which was a common way to get around copy protection back in the day) would not remove the Cinavia garbage audio frequency. otherwise, it would be pointless to own a camcorder if you couldn't play back the A/V...
you know, ever since BluRay won out over HD-DVDs (primarily because of the PS3), it's like they think they can do whatever they want, since consumers no longer have an option to choose one way or the other...
i for one will no longer buy BluRay discs until they fully cease production of these "protected" discs. and YES, i actually DID BUY BluRays instead of "pirating" them (when i thought that it was a good enough movie [and takes advantage of the HiDef] that i would watch it more than once). i always like to support my favorite director/actress/gaffer, in the movies that i love so much. not EVERY movie, mind you, but the quality ones, yes.
but no more! not until justice is returned, and Cinavia removed from my PS3/BluRay player, or at LEAST am given an option to remove the Cinavia junk from my player(s). after all, aren't the players (let alone the discs) expensive enough, that they need to do such dastardly deeds to them to siphon even MORE cash from your pocket, at the expense of quality?
your thoughts, fellow ADers...
darkflux
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. July 2011 @ 19:48
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wagbo
Newbie
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6. July 2011 @ 19:25 |
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there are many angry ps3 owners on here but there is a a solution. it may cost around £30 to £40 though.
why dont they buy a second hand cinavia free blu ray player off ebay? thats it. simple. they can still use their infected ps3 and even download more updates but use the ps3 for gaming only. then use the stand alone blu player for COPIED BACKUPS!!! that way, cinavia is totally useless. im sure some people would end up renting movies and just copying themto play on the second machine but thats the price the fatcats will have to pay for infecting innocent consumers machines in the first place. talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face!
i noticed a bdp s300 the other day going for £30 plus p&p. in the past ive owned a ps3 and a few stand alone blu ray players. i must say even the old bdp s300 has a noticeably better picture than the ps3. it makes sense to get one just to watch backup copies on.
im not inciting any law breaking but i am pointing out what is obvious!!!
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DADEO1
Member
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7. July 2011 @ 02:41 |
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Originally posted by wagbo:
there are many angry ps3 owners on here but there is a a solution. it may cost around £30 to £40 though.
why dont they buy a second hand cinavia free blu ray player off ebay? thats it. simple. they can still use their infected ps3 and even download more updates but use the ps3 for gaming only. then use the stand alone blu player for COPIED BACKUPS!!! that way, cinavia is totally useless. im sure some people would end up renting movies and just copying themto play on the second machine but thats the price the fatcats will have to pay for infecting innocent consumers machines in the first place. talk about cutting your nose off to spite your face!
i noticed a bdp s300 the other day going for £30 plus p&p. in the past ive owned a ps3 and a few stand alone blu ray players. i must say even the old bdp s300 has a noticeably better picture than the ps3. it makes sense to get one just to watch backup copies on.
im not inciting any law breaking but i am pointing out what is obvious!!!
This would certainly be a good work-around. Getting rid of it is the obvious first choice, but who know when or if this will happen. To go along with your suggestion we should try making a list or good esay way to make sure we can find and purchase a player. I guess older models from before the second half of 2009, when Blu-ray Disc players started including this crappolla. I believe there's a good list in the AnyDVD forums.
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Member
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7. July 2011 @ 09:13 |
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yeah, a list would be nice, but it would probably be easier to make a list of the models that HAVE the Cinavia junk on it as well, so that you can avoid them.
the downside to having a list of Cinavia-free players, is that the eBay sellers will eventually catch on to what's going on, and jack the prices for their players up. then they will start buying out the cheaper ones, and then reselling them for expensive prices...
a way around this would be to google for reviews for the players on sites like CNET, and whatever date the review is is likely the timeframe it was made in. that way, eBay Sellers wouldn't have a master list of what players to jack the prices up for (without doing their OWN legwork, that is). just a thought.
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hidehi
Newbie
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31. July 2011 @ 14:19 |
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Why moan about sony etc stopping people from breaking the law and protecting their profits. every time some one gets a pirated film/cd etc instead of buying it, the companies lose out.
its against the law for a reason because its stealing from the companies, directors actors etc. if they dont make enough money they'll stop making films. so you wont be able to piraye films coz their wont be any films to pirate.
I haven't got a problem with pirated films but obviously it'll come to a point when its near impossible to pirate dvds. so just make the most of it while you can.
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