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Apple vs. Adobe Round 2: Steve Jobs and Shantanu Narayen duke it out
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The following comments relate to this news article:
article published on 29 April, 2010
The battle over Apple's decision to keep Flash of its iPad and iPhone devices has taken a new turn this week, with the CEOs of the companies slugging it out with rant posts.
Over the course of a few months, the niceties between Apple and Adobe have broken down, with Apple practically saying Flash is not good enough to be on the iPad and one Adobe developer going as far as to tell Apple ... [ read the full article ]
Please read the original article before posting your comments.
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29. April 2010 @ 20:18 |
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wow i dont know who to root for as i hate both..first of all i hate apple on principle for its dictatorship and complete control over anything their customers get out of their devices and their overpriced glorified holier-than-thou products and i think that for the near future(next 5 years at least) flash should be included on all smartphones since its so wdely used on the web today as a video standard and games as well. on the other hand i love the idea of HTML5 being an open source platform that can replace the buggy flash on PCs.
guess theres no help for it:screw you apple for being an a$$h*l3 and also die flash,die,in the next 2 years or so
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AfterDawn Addict
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30. April 2010 @ 03:25 |
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HTML5 may be great, but that does not help me in 2010, when HTML5 is almost unheard of...and I don't think the iPad fully supports HTML5 anyway!
They might as well remove MP3 support while they are at it; by the time HTML5 is common, the devices will have plenty of memory for FLAC.
Oh, and they should certainly remove iTunes support...iTunes is very closed and it isn't even as good as MP3, even if you ignore all the problems and DRM.
Also, they have to remove Quicktime support, as Quicktime is probably the most closed media format in history. Plus it has always looked like crap.
Oh, and the books on the iPad are closed too...better remove those.
...And the iStore is closed, better dissable that too.
What would the iPad be without closed-source? It would be crummy mobile browser device that claims, "full web", but can only use about 1% of web video...a loss of nearly 4% from their current capabilities.
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h8xor
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30. April 2010 @ 06:04 |
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Originally posted by KillerBug:
HTML5 may be great, but that does not help me in 2010, when HTML5 is almost unheard of...and I don't think the iPad fully supports HTML5 anyway!
They might as well remove MP3 support while they are at it; by the time HTML5 is common, the devices will have plenty of memory for FLAC.
Oh, and they should certainly remove iTunes support...iTunes is very closed and it isn't even as good as MP3, even if you ignore all the problems and DRM.
Also, they have to remove Quicktime support, as Quicktime is probably the most closed media format in history. Plus it has always looked like crap.
Oh, and the books on the iPad are closed too...better remove those.
...And the iStore is closed, better dissable that too.
What would the iPad be without closed-source? It would be crummy mobile browser device that claims, "full web", but can only use about 1% of web video...a loss of nearly 4% from their current capabilities.
Seconded!
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Senior Member
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30. April 2010 @ 12:56 |
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Open?! Microsoft is more open than Apple! That's a load of bulls* used to avoid simply saying they are too mighty for Flash. What's the problem with adding support and leaving it to the user whether or not to actually use it? The point is that Flash is extremely pervasive and Apple is ignoring it because of who knows what (grudge, self-righteousness, w/e).
Put well: ^Post #2
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Junior Member
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30. April 2010 @ 14:06 |
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Killerbug couldn't have said it better myself
As an iPhone owner....I WANT FLASH!
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Gnawnivek
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30. April 2010 @ 16:14 |
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Well said Killerbug :)
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30. April 2010 @ 17:15 |
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Originally posted by Gnawnivek:
Well said Killerbug :)
I still think that the real reason is the amount of free flash content which is out there. Steve Jobs talks about there being good games and apps without it BUT at a price because Apples strategy is about making money for itself and the band of app developers. Open source developers simply wont bother developing for iphone and ipad because without paying apple money they dont have the means to distribute to a mass audience.
As for the claim that the iphone is open that is - pardon the expression utter *?*=+!! - if it were then I could install apps, music, videos pictures and use it like an external drive without having to go near iTunes - sure it can be jailbroken to achieve many of these things - but I dont have to hack windows to run the software I want to run - so why should I have to hack my iphone (which is second hand so I didnt pay any money directly to apple for it!)
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MrsSpooky
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30. April 2010 @ 17:39 |
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I read Jobs' thoughts on the subject. I'd hardly call it a rant.
He spelled it out the way he sees it. Personally, I don't WANT flash on my iPod Touch OR my iPhone (haven't gotten my iPad yet :). Flash on web pages these days is more annoyance than anything else, so yeah, keep it off for all I care.
I am a Mac user and I own a number of Adobe products and I'm very happy with both. I think this is a silly argument anyway.
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kedar7683
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30. April 2010 @ 18:04 |
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Well! Steve. I'ld rather buy a Chinese MP3 player than a costly and unfriendly iPod. And even Phone? iPhone . Never. I don't find anything exciting in it. Do you have one?
Adobe. Make yourself more open.
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favosys1
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30. April 2010 @ 19:29 |
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This is the biggest piece of garbage that Jobs has ever said in his life:
Quote:
And the 200,000 apps on Apple?s App Store proves that Flash isn?t necessary for tens of thousands of developers to create graphically rich applications, including games
The whole reason there are 200,000 apps is because they don't support flash. If they supported flash then there would be no need for 199.900 of these apps because there are already flash apps and games that do the same.
The dumb dorks that buy these lame crapple devices are fooled by the 200.000 apps selling point... when in reality it's a plot by apple to charge you for things that are already available in Flash for FREE and at the same time rob the also foolish developers by charging them $100 for a license and then robbing them 25% of the profits when of course you can develop and publish Flash apps for free.
So everything Jobs said is pure BS. Truth is if they supported Flash then no one would make lame iphone apps and Apple would lose a ton of cash and they wouldn't be able to control their users and developers like puppets which of course is Jobs main purpose in life.
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mukhis
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30. April 2010 @ 20:02 |
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we know flash is not good, we know, but then can mr jobs come up with an alternative w/o making us bankrupt?
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30. April 2010 @ 22:02 |
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Flash is definitely a resource hog.
Adobe really should do better.
Besides, I really don't like the way flash tracks me on the web.
It's more than invasion of privacy.
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30. April 2010 @ 23:05 |
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Originally posted by gbswales:
Originally posted by Gnawnivek:
Well said Killerbug :)
I still think that the real reason is the amount of free flash content which is out there. Steve Jobs talks about there being good games and apps without it BUT at a price because Apples strategy is about making money for itself and the band of app developers. Open source developers simply wont bother developing for iphone and ipad because without paying apple money they dont have the means to distribute to a mass audience.
As for the claim that the iphone is open that is - pardon the expression utter *?*=+!! - if it were then I could install apps, music, videos pictures and use it like an external drive without having to go near iTunes - sure it can be jailbroken to achieve many of these things - but I dont have to hack windows to run the software I want to run - so why should I have to hack my iphone (which is second hand so I didnt pay any money directly to apple for it!)
maybe the reason is his strong opinions about porn on the iphone, he dont want us to have free access to flash based porn sites and undermine crapples policy :P
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Senior Member
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1. May 2010 @ 01:24 |
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Originally posted by favosys1:
This is the biggest piece of garbage that Jobs has ever said in his life:
Quote:
And the 200,000 apps on Apple?s App Store proves that Flash isn?t necessary for tens of thousands of developers to create graphically rich applications, including games
The whole reason there are 200,000 apps is because they don't support flash. If they supported flash then there would be no need for 199.900 of these apps because there are already flash apps and games that do the same.
The dumb dorks that buy these lame crapple devices are fooled by the 200.000 apps selling point... when in reality it's a plot by apple to charge you for things that are already available in Flash for FREE and at the same time rob the also foolish developers by charging them $100 for a license and then robbing them 25% of the profits when of course you can develop and publish Flash apps for free.
So everything Jobs said is pure BS. Truth is if they supported Flash then no one would make lame iphone apps and Apple would lose a ton of cash and they wouldn't be able to control their users and developers like puppets which of course is Jobs main purpose in life.
Hear hear... and to all the other similar posts.
Where would hypocritical Jobs be without real open standard stuff anyway... e.g. Unix.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. May 2010 @ 01:24
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AfterDawn Addict
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1. May 2010 @ 01:26 |
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I bet there are free prono sites that are all in Quicktime just so that iPhone users can do to themselves what Apple has been doing to them for years.
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Senior Member
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1. May 2010 @ 16:43 |
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Originally posted by favosys1:
This is the biggest piece of garbage that Jobs has ever said in his life:
Quote:
And the 200,000 apps on Apple’s App Store proves that Flash isn’t necessary for tens of thousands of developers to create graphically rich applications, including games
The whole reason there are 200,000 apps is because they don't support flash. If they supported flash then there would be no need for 199.900 of these apps because there are already flash apps and games that do the same.
The dumb dorks that buy these lame crapple devices are fooled by the 200.000 apps selling point... when in reality it's a plot by apple to charge you for things that are already available in Flash for FREE and at the same time rob the also foolish developers by charging them $100 for a license and then robbing them 25% of the profits when of course you can develop and publish Flash apps for free.
So everything Jobs said is pure BS. Truth is if they supported Flash then no one would make lame iphone apps and Apple would lose a ton of cash and they wouldn't be able to control their users and developers like puppets which of course is Jobs main purpose in life.
How dumb can you be Job's statement that you disagree about is right on the mark! As is the fact that Flash is a resource hog, I could cook an egg on my cpu when playing flash files. And that does not address other issues like compatability, I typically need three different players in order to be able to view flash files and even then the controls maybe disabled. If Flash was so good then why did MacroMedia sell out? Maybe it was becuase they couldn't sell their crap? Flash should have been dead years ago and there is no need for it today as there are plenty of other much better file formats out there. It is nice to see Job's is seeing the light on this finally.
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favosys1
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1. May 2010 @ 17:38 |
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Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
Originally posted by favosys1:
This is the biggest piece of garbage that Jobs has ever said in his life:
Quote:
And the 200,000 apps on Apple’s App Store proves that Flash isn’t necessary for tens of thousands of developers to create graphically rich applications, including games
The whole reason there are 200,000 apps is because they don't support flash. If they supported flash then there would be no need for 199.900 of these apps because there are already flash apps and games that do the same.
The dumb dorks that buy these lame crapple devices are fooled by the 200.000 apps selling point... when in reality it's a plot by apple to charge you for things that are already available in Flash for FREE and at the same time rob the also foolish developers by charging them $100 for a license and then robbing them 25% of the profits when of course you can develop and publish Flash apps for free.
So everything Jobs said is pure BS. Truth is if they supported Flash then no one would make lame iphone apps and Apple would lose a ton of cash and they wouldn't be able to control their users and developers like puppets which of course is Jobs main purpose in life.
How dumb can you be Job's statement that you disagree about is right on the mark! As is the fact that Flash is a resource hog, I could cook an egg on my cpu when playing flash files. And that does not address other issues like compatability, I typically need three different players in order to be able to view flash files and even then the controls maybe disabled. If Flash was so good then why did MacroMedia sell out? Maybe it was becuase they couldn't sell their crap? Flash should have been dead years ago and there is no need for it today as there are plenty of other much better file formats out there. It is nice to see Job's is seeing the light on this finally.
First of all I would like to say I'm not a Flash fan or Adobe fan or Flash defender or anything like that. I do use Dreamweaver and Fireworks a lot. Now concerning Apple I do not like them at all and I do pity the people who fall for their over expensive useless little toys. About your points, I have never had any problems with Flash, I don't think it's necessarily a resource hog. I imagine if programmed incorrectly it may in some specific cases be a resource hog. Maybe your computer is from the 90's and can't handle flash. I update mine when I can and Flash works just fine and I use Chrome. I don't know what players you're talking about, the flash plugin is installed once and usually you don't have to worry about it ever again. I don't think Macromedia selling out has anything to do with Flash. Dreamweaver is and has been for a long while a huge leader in Website design and Programming. Fireworks was crawling up Photoshop's a$$, Freehand was crawling up Illustrator's a$$, coldfusion while not extremely popular was a very stable and powerful programming platform. At the time everybody like photoshop and Illustrator and word and excel and publisher where implementing the save as HTML feature but that was a mess. I think Adobe had the cash and the opportunity to get rid of their growing competiton, get Dreamweaver which is awesome, control Fireworks, kill Freehand and Flash was just icing on the cake. And then they fixed Flex which as far as I heard is pretty amazing.
I'm not saying Flash is perfect, it has its flaws like any product. But if flash is such a worthless memory hogging piece of crap then why is there a Youtube app for Iphone? Cause if there wasn't then nobody would buy the crappy Iphone. This just proves flash works fine and doesn't hog anything on the Iphone. I have a Nokia E63 and I use the Skyfire browser when I need to see something in flash and it works just fine. So flash woks fine in my $150 dollar phone and works fine on my PC but according to Jobs it doesn't work on a $500 dollar I crap and by the wat it doesn't work on your PC so maybe here the problem is not Flash but some people.
Like many people have already said here, Flash has problems and it may go out eventually but it hasn't gone out yet and it won't go out soon. Oh and please tell me the many file formats that are much better than flash and do the same. I don't know anything that does what flash does, maybe Java but Java's extreeeeeeeemly slow and it would take you a week to do in Java an animation that you do in 5 minutes in flash.
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LeeSally
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1. May 2010 @ 18:08 |
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Steve Jobs just want your wallet to stuff his iTune. iPod and i pad stores. He is not sharing his profit with anyone else.
Anyone(Almost) can asemble a PC at a reseanable price. a Mac? you can't use this you can't use that...., and it is slow... compare to PC.
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Junior Member
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2. May 2010 @ 00:19 |
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Originally posted by MrsSpooky:
I read Jobs' thoughts on the subject. I'd hardly call it a rant.
He spelled it out the way he sees it. Personally, I don't WANT flash on my iPod Touch OR my iPhone (haven't gotten my iPad yet :). Flash on web pages these days is more annoyance than anything else, so yeah, keep it off for all I care.
I am a Mac user and I own a number of Adobe products and I'm very happy with both. I think this is a silly argument anyway.
You own a iphone and a touch. why?
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MrsSpooky
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2. May 2010 @ 01:00 |
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I had an early generation iPhone that didn't get MMS. I was eligible for an upgrade and went to Blackberry (at the time, iPhone still didn't do MMS, and my family and I love taking and sending pix to each other via phone). That was two years ago.
I want my iPhone back. My tax refund came this year and one of the things I wanted was a new iPod, so I got the iPod Touch. I use it a LOT (and it holds all my music). I'm waiting for the latest generation iPhone in July before I upgrade my Blackberry. I want my iPhone back. I should have waited on the iPod purchase till I got the new iPhone, but I didn't. Not sure they even make 64Gb iPhones, and I need that much for all my music and movies I have in itunes.
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Junior Member
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2. May 2010 @ 03:08 |
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I laugh when I see everyone talk about steve jobs like he is Stalin or something... He receives 1$ a year salary since 1998, and only profits based on stock holdings... So if Apple does better than the less innovative competition... he makes major bank... Otherwise, people are just upset jobs actually seems to have a hand in innovation, while their old leader Gates is nowhere to be found.. just collecting Microsoft checks and never releasing anything that hasn't been done before.. And flash is fine on a desktop or laptop... the whole point from jobs is that they never improved their initial product it now hogs a huge market's battery life, smart phones!!
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Senior Member
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2. May 2010 @ 13:02 |
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Apple prays on weak sheeple who only want the newest shiniest "thing" without caring if its better than the old "thing". Oh all my friends are wearing dipshit brand jeans... I need a pair too.
Go back to what the radio tells you to listen to, what TV tells you to watch, and what mass media and marketing tells you to buy. I will be happy on the other side of the wall being an individual with choices instead of a mindless drone.
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Paula_X
Suspended permanently
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2. May 2010 @ 15:21 |
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and you think apple see you as anything but a cash cow.. and truly are some kind of advocates and supporter of open standards and patent free media codecs?..think again..
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04/30/..._theora_attack/
M$ are in that cartel too.. but theora has so many thousands of developers and is open source.. so it can't be "bought" that easily..
Lets just keep buying these companies shitty products eh.. and keep giving them the money to stamp on us every step of the road... Tell you what.. I'll come round your house with a baseball bat and smash your face in.. oh btw,, you now owe me $500 for that kind "service" I just did you.. I'll use it to buy a better bat to beat you over the head with next time you have some money.....
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llongtheD
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2. May 2010 @ 23:33 |
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Originally posted by asilay328:
I laugh when I see everyone talk about steve jobs like he is Stalin or something... He receives 1$ a year salary since 1998, and only profits based on stock holdings... So if Apple does better than the less innovative competition... he makes major bank... Otherwise, people are just upset jobs actually seems to have a hand in innovation, while their old leader Gates is nowhere to be found.. just collecting Microsoft checks and never releasing anything that hasn't been done before.. And flash is fine on a desktop or laptop... the whole point from jobs is that they never improved their initial product it now hogs a huge market's battery life, smart phones!!
LOL, you actually believe that? Jobs just doesn't want anything that will interfere with his DRM scheme, and his "rent your media" format. Wake up dude, Jobs is a corporate billionaire that doesn't give a sh*t about you. Quit defending him like he's some kind of savior. Unless of course your an apple share holder?
Disagree with me? The next question I'd ask is why you can't move any of the media you have supposedly bought and own without opening drmtunes? I'm talking about apple devices that are not jail broken. Why no simple drag and drop support?
That speaks for itself.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 2. May 2010 @ 23:46
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Gnawnivek
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3. May 2010 @ 00:38 |
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As for Flash's negative affect on battery life? "Patently false."
What does patently false mean?
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