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FBI targets child porn on P2P
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The following comments relate to this news article:
article published on 14 May, 2004
FBI has launched a nationwide probe into child porn trafficking over the P2P networks in the United States and so far FBI has investigated over 1,000 cases and have arrested already more than 65 people.
FBI's actions indicate that pedophiles have moved from Net's chat rooms, discussion forums and private web servers to the seemignly anonymous P2P networks. Seemingly because none of the ... [ read the full article ]
Please read the original article before posting your comments.
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10. August 2004 @ 09:36 |
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Nunya1 i think your missing the point here
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NO ONE deserves to go to prison for looking at pictures of other peoples crime scenes
In a reasonable society i would class this sick to look at this sort of crime.You have to ask yourself the question why people look at these crimes.It is not for fun as there is no fun in seeing any child treated this way.If someone accidently was directed to a site of this nature and turned it off in discussed is another thing.No crime has been committed and no action should be taken.But the sick individuals who seek this material out for there own personal use and as these sick gets would say personal pleasure lock them up.These people are as bad as those who committed the crime becuase they see nothing wrong in it and probably wish they were there when the crime was committed so they could get involved.Yes sure we all see some sort of crime on the news or where ever else from time to time.But we do not agree with it most normal people condem it.Anyone who spends much of there time looking and downloading materials of this nature deserve to be locked up in a safe pace out of the way of innocent childrens reach.I also don't go for the bull shit of these guys will not offend again on release becuase they will.I believe i seen one instance on the news where a guy was locked up and on his release he wanted to move to a country where the law was not strict on these crimes.He was only looking and downloading and claimed is innosence in court before being sentenced.Lock them all up and throw away the key is the only solution really available in a law abinding country may allow us to do if this continues.
Goverments around the world should stop pussy footing around these people like it is some kind of illness and just hit them with real hard sentances which for me would mean life for them who committ the crime.I would go for the 2 strike rule for those caught perving over it which would be a long sentance for the first time and for a second time life and life should mean life.
John179
Ps as i said in a earlier post i just wish there was a jarassic park we could send them to this would be much better.
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MartMart
Junior Member
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10. August 2004 @ 10:09 |
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Hiya nunya1
This whole internet control thing that alot of governments have began to undertake is all just a bunch of shit.
yep...totally agree..the key word here is "control"..thats what all govs. want and they wont be happy until technology is such that they can just inject some nanobot thing into your brain and scan your thoughts..I'm sure "thoughts" will be illegal by then tho.. if not already.
here in the US society believes anthing and almost everything they see on TV is what is real to them and when you have some prick on TV running around telling everyone that even people who look at child porn is a molester a pedophile or a god damn monster they believe it
Its just as bad here in the uk..believe me
Society is to blame, we elect our officials and we allow them to peruse frivilous shit like CP and we allow them to go way way over board with punishments for it and not enough people have the guts or balls if you will to stand up and say this is wrong.
Because most people want to be seen to be totally against CP which I understand and can't really blame them for not wanting to have the shit beaten out of them or have vigilante groups hunting them down for APPEARING to be pro CP...some people are so dumb that that that is exactly how they would see someone...perfect example of the dumbness of these vigilantes...here in the UK a couple of years ago, there was a 'name and shame' policy in the media for internet paedophiles..as a result the vigilante groups came out to play but not only did the stupid bastards beat up the wrong people (seeing someones face in the newspaper and going for the one who looked the most like him) but they also saw a sign on the door of a building "PAEDIATRICIAN" and attacked him thinking that he was a paedophile. Thats the mentality of these people!
NO ONE deserves to go to prison for looking at pictures of other peoples crime scenes"
Totally agree..
"I almost am to the point of wanting to move out of the land of the free ..the home of the brave and the manufacturer of this ignorant hysteria"
hmm...not many places left to go to then really..definately stay away from the UK cos its just as bad here imo
"1 other thing as food 4 thought..the US Government has just started another internet operation...to prosecute online obscenity,,now what the fuck is this? Who the hell can say with is obscene...what I might consider as obscene may not be to you...this is becoming a total loss of common sense on the US Governments case...What the hell has happening here? "
Big Brother is watching you !!
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Nunya1
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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10. August 2004 @ 10:53 |
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John...
So what youre saying is that its OK for a government to persecute someone for looking at what another person has done? Is this correct? How can anyone say its correct or right for anyone to be held accountable for the actions of another person? If thats what you truely believe maybe you should consider resorting back to the days of the middle ages and start condemning people without 1st educating yourself as to what, where, when and why these people do these things. Have you not read what an affluent group od psyciatrists are saying about pedophilia, its similar to someone who is gay, do you also condemn them? Its who they are and as long as a person doesnt "ACT" on what they think how can any crime be commited? Being in possesion of CP does NOT make a person a pedophile just like someone who has pictures of a murder scene doesnt make them a muderer now does it? Make no mistake..i truely believe that the people making CP should be imprisoned because they have taken advantage of a child but lets get real here, just having pictures of what another has done should not be a criminal act period.If you want to call that reasonable thinking go right ahead, your entitled to your opinion and everyone has one just like everyone has an ass ...some just stink more than others , is that criminal as well? What it all boils down too is theres is a tremendous difference between looking and thinking and actually "ACTING" upon it.Please do yourself and everyone else who has an opinion on this issue, educate yourself on it more before you quickly jump the gun and condemn anyone, that in itself is "Reasonable" in any society. Ask yourself this, would you still think it was "just" if someone close to you got caught up in this "Witch Hunt" and was harrassed by your law enforcement people? Lets say..your son, your brother, your best friend, your wife? Even though they never directly or physically touched anyone inappropriately and was sent to prison? I think that maybe you would be singing a whole different tune, but then again the laws are primitive and unjust because its "Mob Rules" and there are more people who think the same way as you do and not enough people to stand up and speak out for the Innocent or not so Innocent ones who got caught up in this. We do not need to be dropping Atomic Bombs when we are trying to swat flies.
If you really wanna know what we "the US Government" thinks about children...ask all the parents of the children who our government has killed in Iraq, do you think they really give a rats ass what happens to them, but yet they declare war on people here for looking at pictures and not going after the manufacturers of child porn. nIt makes no sense at all.
Oh yeah, "big brother" hasnt taken away my right to speak or protest what i believe in yet so he can watch all he likes and I hope he hates the taste i leave in his mouth!
Have a nice day!!
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MartMart
Junior Member
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10. August 2004 @ 10:59 |
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In a reasonable society i would class this sick to look at this sort of crime.You have to ask yourself the question why people look at these crimes
What exactly would you class a reasonably society? In my location I see nothing but violence and hate, mugging, drugs, racial hate and racial violence and my area is considered relatively tame compared to other areas in the uk..whatever reason a person is bashing his bishop over some kiddy porn, whatever reason in their childhoods (yes they too were once children) that lead them to have those feelings then as long as his sexual release through these images keeps him away from kids on the street and ultimatly safe..then I can live with that even if it is a sick thing to do. One of the biggest dangers to kids imo is sexual repression...very dangerous and as far as I'm concerned is one of the reasons why so many kids are abused or if not abused themselves go on to abuse in adult hood. We have far too much censorship..too much control of what we can and cant see..even a womans fuckin nipple is blurred out if its shown before a certain time in the evening..sometimes even after the so-called "watershed" If its not blurred out u get maybe 50 people in a population of about 60 million? in the uk..usually some 200 year old granny complaining about the discusting content on tv and should be stopped./.blah blah blah....
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It is not for fun as there is no fun in seeing any child treated this way.
Totally agree but who are you to judge as to the reason why they did actually download the porn..after all..the authorities look for porn on peoples computers all the time..like I said in an earlier post...whos to say that they dont have similar thoughts to the people they caught downloading KP and who are they to judge a person based on what they found on someones computer? Talking of "judges"..how many judges have been caught doing this so-called "crime" and how many people have these so-called "judges" sent to prison for doing the same thing??
There are people sitting at home terrified at this moment because of these investigations that are going on...waiting for that knock on the door..some have commited suicide as a result of these investigations...some are as guilty as sin itself but others are only guilty of mere curiosity and a moment of sexual weakness in the "privacy" of their own homes, something which we're all capable of.
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If someone accidently was directed to a site of this nature and turned it off in discussed is another thing, No crime has been committed and no action should be taken
No its not another thing...in the eyes of the law he HAS commited a crime. If you actually went to this persons house and accidently found any images that he'd accidently downloaded and turned off in disgust and you were so angered you beat him up then went to the police who would then scan his computer..find the images, hed get prosecuted, put on the sex offenders register and then get perscuted and labelled for the rest of his life...I think this is on of the main points that nunya1 is trying to make.
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But the sick individuals who seek this material out for there own personal use and as these sick gets would say personal pleasure lock them up
you said the key word there "own personal pleasure". If looking at these pictures keeps them off the streets away from kids then I say let him get on with it and bash away to his hearts content. Right or wrong they;re not actually hurting anyone
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These people are as bad as those who committed the crime becuase they see nothing wrong in it and probably wish they were there when the crime was committed so they could get involved
So everyone who goes to these gore sites or sees murdered people on the streets are as bad as the murderers themselves? Those people who view the gore sites actually enjoy seeing the splatter mutilated bodies..are they just as bad as the murderers themselves? should they go to prison for murder just cos they saw a picture of a sick crime?
Everything you said basically I disagree with but thats not to say I dont understand your feelings about it..it is a touchy subject for people..especially those who have actually been on the receiving end of sexual abuse and I fully understand their feelings but the whole issue as far as I'm concerned is not about the actual abuse thats taken place in the images but the moments of weakness and sexual curiosity of some of these individuals who just wanted to see the images in the privacy of their own homes without actually hurting anyone in the process and as a Nunya1 says..the whole thing is way out of control now and far too much of a witch-hunt and what the authorities should really be doing is seeking ways to get these kiddie porn sites off the internet altogether.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 10. August 2004 @ 11:10
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Senior Member
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10. August 2004 @ 11:51 |
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I tend to disagree with you both on most points.Its wrong to look at stuff like this even if there not committing the crime it is still a crime.Because it should not have took place in the first place.I tend to believe with the most of the population it should be banned full stop and all brought to justice.This sort of material is taken and watched without the consent of a adult.Ok man you have a kid you find out he has been sexually abused would you want your kids pictures pasted over the internet so some pervet can get off on it.What about the victim do they want some sick get pulling there plonker on a image of them no i do not think so.
It is wrong wrong wrong and it should not happen however you dress it up.Yes some of these sick gets could have been victims there self and have problems.But just becuase you have been a victim i does not give you the god given right to exploit others later in life in any shape or form.My peronal opinion as it is all going to far now.We need to clamp down on it and get rid of it full stop becuase to many injured children are now appearing.We should give all the support to these children to ensure they do not become the people committing these crimes.Yes some of these who committ crimes did not get the support as vitims in the earlier days.But we have to start somewhere and the hard approach is the correct way.People have been warned and if they have a problem and come forward and say look mate ive a problem i need help.My respect to them as are trying to tackle it by seeking help.We all know what is right and what is wrong what ever walk of life we come from and this is most definetly wrong.
John179
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MartMart
Junior Member
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10. August 2004 @ 13:05 |
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John..neither nunya1 nor I are saying that we condone child porn. Well I can only speak for myself obviously but I'm sure nunya1 definately does not condone it. For the authorities to keep looking for people who download childporn is like flogging a dead horse..u cant stop a waterfall by catching the droplets, you have to build a dam and imo this is what needs to be done...stop it at the source...not follow it to its destination. I believe theres a lot more of a chance of stopping internet child porn this way than simply looking for people who downloaded it..even tho I feel the chances of total eradicating it are pretty slim.
As for people who do download it..I cant change your opinion and I respect your opinion even tho I dont agree with it..but consider this...like many people on these forums I like pornography, I dont always look for it, but I know its available for me when I want it. Now..the fact that I've downloaded pornography (and I stress..not child porn)
does not mean I'm going to go out and rape women...I'm sexually attracted to females, does not mean I am a rapist and I'm going to rape the first woman I see alone, ..does not mean that women are not safe in my company..infact I've been around many women alone..relatives, wives of my friends, cousins and most of em are quite to very attractive. I'm sure you like women too, or maybe men? which is also fine if thats the case..I dont know your sexual preferences but whatever the case it doesn't mean that women (or men) are unsafe in your company does it? but the attraction is still there.. If you are actually saying that every person who views kiddy porn on the internet or videos is a child molestor and will molest any child they see then you are also saying that everyone who sees general pornography on the internet is going to rape the first woman they come to and thats total bullshit..I'm not saying that people who look at child porn do not go out and molest children as I'm sure this does happen at times but so does rape of women. Like nunya1 says...most of these people are only guilty of thoughts and not necessarily guilty of the temptation take action on their thoughts. And all of us have probably been guilty of thoughts we shouldn't have at some points in our lives..I know I have.
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Nunya1
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10. August 2004 @ 13:41 |
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well john, you wanted it and now youre gunna hear it...I WAS AT THE AGE OF 15 THE "VICTIM" OF A CHILD PORNOGRAPHER" and you know what, He was sentenced to 6 years in prison and heres the best part ...my part...I dont hate him or loath him and looking back on it I dont feel he desverved to be put in Jail he needed help, plain and simple, and as far as other people looking at it and getting "pleasure" from it...I DONT give a shit. How can anyone condemn anyone for being who they are. You dont condemn gay people for being gay, you dont condemn people who are born with multiple sclirosis ..its who they are , thats the way they are made ,its the way they are wired. Its a fucking "Witch Hunt" and its a terrible waste of people, the kids, the offenders, law enforcement, and thats not to mention tax payers money. To kill a disease you go to the source you dont cut off the finger of a person because they have a hang nail do you? No You cut the hang nail off. Do you know it costs about $30,000 a year to keep someone in prison in the US ...why...why I ask you would you want to shell out that kind of money to lock up someone who is absolutely no threat to anyone?
Now back to my offender..He killed his self in jail. do you think that He deserved a Death sentence..i dont!And Yes at 15 I knew exctly what I was doing. 15 is Child Porn. Once again heres an article that would like for you to read.....
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/926810/posts
please read it!
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stasha1
Newbie
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10. August 2004 @ 15:31 |
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I think the age thing there, which is 18 now, should be changed from 18 to 14, what do you think?
I think these days we are all pretty much adults after the age of 14.If I was in charge of changing that law I would.And you really can't consider anything to be CP unless that person is pretty much under the age of 11 or 12 these days? I mean, what is it that makes kiddy porn exciting to people and makes there pee pee go BOING! What is the age threshold? This is the real question.
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Nunya1
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10. August 2004 @ 16:21 |
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more food 4 thought stasha1....Im not sure what it is now but up until the early 1980`s a person in many states could marry at the age of 11 without consent. Now youre not going to tell me that these young people didnt go home and commence to banging away with thier new spouse as soon as they hit the front door! Why then in todays world which is split on this issue so extremely should it be Illegal for them to take pictures of thier sexual activities without being thrown into prisons. Every single person in this world is a sexual being and for so many bible thumping,uptight,asses in governments all around the globe to sit on thier high horses and try to tell everyone what age they should be to consent to sex is a load of crap. I honestly believe that the same bible thumpers would agree that even at a very young age they allow thier children to decide for themselves wether or not they want to attend church (which is all about values and morals) why then cant they be able to decide about sex?This is in a time of our parents and grandparents people to whom i think most of us consider the authorities in our lifes and the teachers of our own personal values. Now everything is clouded by what we see and hear on TV , on the radio, and in our newspapers and we arent allowed to decide for ourselves. Its GOVERNMENT CONTROL!!!!!!!I dont know about you but I dont need a babysitter to tell me when, where, or with whom I choose to make love too and I dont need them telling me that I cant look at certain things.
I wish more people would get involved in this discussion because its very eye opening dont you think?
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Senior Member
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11. August 2004 @ 08:23 |
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stasha1 i tend to agree with this one as kids grow up quicker now so this should be taken in to count.We should not make them feel they are not doing something wrong and we should understand a little more.I don't believe in child porn and all that just my opinion.However we need to start to reconize an age of consent where a person is fully aware of there actions.I think if we did this there may not be as many young teenagers getting pregnant because birth control is a no no until 16.Most people consent to sex in there life under the legal age these days and they are aware of the risk's so 14 would be a good age to look at but not below this age.
John179
John179
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Nunya1
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11. August 2004 @ 10:47 |
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wow...
John, we actually agree on something? This is too cool! I also agree the age of consent should be lowered but I think lower than 14 because I think and research has shown that young people are starting on avergae at the age of 13 or so. I just read my local newspaper and the headlines talk about a 12 year old girl who live here went with her "boyfriend" and spent the night with him. She had sex with him! The next morning he took her home to find the Police there waiting for them, He`s 29 and she told the Police that she loves him and that she spent the night with him! Now Hes faceing Statutory Rape charges! This is not fair in my opinion because the Girl knowingly went with him for the sinlge purpose of having sex with him. Now this poor guy is gunna end up in prison all because he made it with his girlfriend. Another American Injustice in the works!
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Shan1225
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12. August 2004 @ 02:28 |
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Well, I have to say I too was a victim of Sexual Abuse, Physical Abuse and Emotional Abuse. I am also the mother of 2 beautiful girls. And all I can say about Abuse is it is a viscious cycle and the fact that it is allowed to continue is very sick. How is it that you know thee people have not offended. You can know someone for your enitre life and find out they are a addict of some kind and never have known it previously. That does not mean they weren't that means that were good at covering it up for years. Child Abuse is not that you find a child attractive it is about POWER over another human being. Spousal Abusers are not abusive because they find smacking their wife or husband around is attractive they do it to make themselves more powerful. And, what do we do as a society if we say okay well, you can look at chold pornography that is fine and dandy and then when the person does not get their kicks off that they do go and offend then when they do get into the court they get off the charge because we as a society lowered our standards and morals and made it okay for them. Whether, they are at this moment viewing it and not offending there is not guarentee or timeline as to when just looking at it is not enough. Most sex offenders start viewing pornography and it is not only child pornography it is all pornography. And, as far as I am concerned you nip the problem while you still can. If it were up to me Chemical Castration would be the sentence of every sex offender whether it be child or not. No person should say it is right to diminish a persons worth to keep another person from being safe obiviously if they are looking at these pictures they need help. And, what I believe by help is instead of getting prisons Cable TV and other forms of Entertainment they need to spend more money on getting these peopel the counseling they need and if they cannot be counseled then they need to stay where they are. How can someone say the innocence and purity of even one single child is not worth time in prison. Anyone who hurt either of my children would be praying for a prison sentence at least till I am no longer on this earth. How can you say that viewing child porn is going to keep them safely in their homes and not go out and offend and if we give up the laws we have on it now then there will be nothing to stop them in the long run and if that were to happen you might as well tell your children that at some point they will be harmed and there is nothing you can do about it. Why not just take these children to their houses and hand them over to them because in the long run it will happen anyway. And, to be honest I am not willing to hand my childs innocence over to anyone for any reason. For I pray that I do a better job for my children then what I had. You know there was a time in this country when abusing a child came under the same laws as abusing a animal. Childen and women were just property and from some of the posts I see here some wish it were that way again and that really makes me sad that people just view their children as property and just another thing to expoit. These men need to go out and get a freaking life and learn how to get a woman and quit preying on the children of this world.
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MartMart
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12. August 2004 @ 04:49 |
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Well, I have to say I too was a victim of Sexual Abuse, Physical Abuse and Emotional Abuse. I am also the mother of 2 beautiful girls. And all I can say about Abuse is it is a viscious cycle and the fact that it is allowed to continue is very sick.
Fisrtly..Im sorry to read of your abuse-as a child? I hope you came to, or can eventually come to terms with it. Secondly...you say its a vicious cycle...by that I guess you mean that a child who is abused will go on to abuse in adulthood? then why are you not abusing your own children or other children...I know why..because you are talking about abused BOYS growing up to be abusers. I've head it all before...women seem to think that women are not part of this cycle and that its only men who grow up to abuse and that is TOTAL bullshit..women are JUST as capable as men of abusing children and it is TOTALLY unfair and ABSOULTE bullshit to suggest that everyone..nay,,,every MAN who is abused will go on to abuse.
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You can know someone for your enitre life and find out they are a addict of some kind and never have known it previously. That does not mean they weren't that means that were good at covering it up for years.
doesn't necessarily mean that that person is a bad person..obviously depends on what that person is addicted to..your generalising here so what you said could mean anything.
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Child Abuse is not that you find a child attractive it is about POWER over another human being. Spousal Abusers are not abusive because they find smacking their wife or husband around is attractive they do it to make themselves more powerful
no no no no....ok yes..there is an element of power in the whole abuse thing but abuse comes in many forms and "power" being a reason for abuse is just scratching the surface
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And, what do we do as a society if we say okay well, you can look at child pornography that is fine and dandy and then when the person does not get their kicks off that they do go and offend then when they do get into the court they get off the charge because we as a society lowered our standards and morals and made it okay for them.
no one has ever said its ok to look at child pornography and as I said in one of my previous posts..yes..it may well be that in some cases people who view child pornography may go out and offend against a child, just as someone who views adult pornography may go out and rape...just as someone who watches violent films or video games may go out and murder.
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Most sex offenders start viewing pornography and it is not only child pornography it is all pornography.
May well be the case BUT again..your talking of a minority....the majority of the country watch pornography in some form or other, be it videos, dvd's, mags, etc ...but you cannot blame the viewing of pornography as a reason they go out and offend...pornography is merely a tool to aid in their sexual outlet. If they dont have porn, they're probably fantasising about sex anyway....and personally I prefer looking at porn than fantasising..its easier
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If it were up to me Chemical Castration would be the sentence of every sex offender whether it be child or not
"be it child or not??" just another example of the hypocrisy thats around...you would happily see a child castrated for sexual abuse?? then you are no better than the person who abused you I'm afraid...suppose it was one of your daughters who offended? or another child member of your family who you may love dearly?
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No person should say it is right to diminish a persons worth to keep another person from being safe obiviously if they are looking at these pictures they need help. And, what I believe by help is instead of getting prisons Cable TV and other forms of Entertainment they need to spend more money on getting these peopel the counseling they need and if they cannot be counseled then they need to stay where they are. How can someone say the innocence and purity of even one single child is not worth time in prison.
Your talking of 2 different things here...viewing child porn images and abusing children....as I said in one of my previous post..I like pornography..I like seeing films of people enjoying eachothers bodies, especially lesbians :-))))) ..it doesn't mean I'm going to go out and rape someone as a result. Same with people who view child porn..same with watching violent films or playing violent games..etc..I went to a gore site that I usually visit yesterday and there was a new picture posted of a 12yo boy who was run over by a van..his head was splattered in the road, brain hanging out..his leg was folded across his back.,...the genral attitude of the people in that place was how it served the stupid fucker gith for using a mobile phone whilst riding..there was not one ounce of compassion for that child...yet..if he'd been naked the whole forum would've been screaming "CHILD PORN>.GET IT OFF...REPORT THE SICKO'S FOR POSTING"...<<etc and I've seen that very thing happen.
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..How can you say that viewing child porn is going to keep them safely in their homes and not go out and offend
How can you say it isn't going to keep them safe in their homes and not go out and offend...again..if you believe that people who view child porn are going to go out and offend..then you are saying the same about people who view any sort of porn..in other words..your saying that I and probably most people on these forums are rapists because they like porn.
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and if we give up the laws we have on it now then there will be nothing to stop them in the long run and if that were to happen you might as well tell your children that at some point they will be harmed and there is nothing you can do about it.
1. There are already laws...laws have NEVER been a detterent in anything. the threat of hanging never deterred people from commiting crimes and it was only because of a case where someone was wrongly hanged that hanging was abolished in the 60's? (I think)
2. You'll always have to tell your children that they will be hamred in some way if they're not careful..thats part of life...kids get killed on the roads every day..its a sad fact of life that no one is truly safe on the streets
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Why not just take these children to their houses and hand them over to them because in the long run it will happen anyway. And, to be honest I am not willing to hand my childs innocence over to anyone for any reason.
So why not just push the children on the motorway to get run over cos as u say, it'll happen anyway some day. Kids are more in danger of the roads than anything else and whilst your there teaching your kids about the dangers of talking to strangers (and rightly so) your not teaching em how to do simple things like crossing the raod safely..Its up to YOU as a parents to see that your children are safe from ALL dangers in life
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Childen and women were just property and from some of the posts I see here some wish it were that way again and that really makes me sad that people just view their children as property and just another thing to expoit.
There is not one message in this thread that has made me think that anyone sees children as property or sources of sexual desire...not one person here has condoned the abuse of any child what-so-ever. What some were saying was that merely looking at children in an image is NOT harming a child...the actual harm to the child has already been done WITHIN those images (depending on the images ofcourse) and then the topic went slightly off onto the subject of "age of consent" and some were saying 13 or 14 would be a suitable age for them to enjoy their sexual needs without fear of being made a criminal by these fucked up hypocritcal laws.
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These men need to go out and get a freaking life and learn how to get a woman and quit preying on the children of this world
Hehe..thought so...everything you said above was referring to MEN only....women are sooooo innocent arent they???...let me tell you...women are just as capable of raping men, and little boys and girls ......women are just as capable of downloading and viewing childporn..and I know all of this for a fact
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No person should say it is right to diminish a persons worth to keep another person from being safe obiviously if they are looking at these pictures they need help. And, what I believe by help is instead of getting prisons Cable TV and other forms of Entertainment they need to spend more money on getting these peopel the counseling they need and if they cannot be counseled then they need to stay where they are. How can someone say the innocence and purity of even one single child is not worth time in prison.
Your talking of 2 different things here...viewing child porn images and abusing children....as I said in one of my previous post..I like pornography..I like seeing films of people enjoying eachothers bodies, especially lesbians :-))))) ..it doesn't mean I'm going to go out and rape someone as a result. Same with people who view child porn..same with watching violent films or playing violent games..etc..I went to a gore site that I usually visit yesterday and there was a new picture posted of a 12yo boy who was run over by a van..his head was splattered in the road, brain hanging out..his leg was folded across his back.,...the genral attitude of the people in that place was how it served the stupid fucker right for using a mobile phone whilst riding..there was not one ounce of compassion for that child...yet..if he'd been naked the whole forum would've been screaming "CHILD PORN>.GET IT OFF...REPORT THE SICKO'S FOR POSTING"...<<etc and I've seen that very thing happen.
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..How can you say that viewing child porn is going to keep them safely in their homes and not go out and offend
How can you say it isn't going to keep them safe in their homes and not go out and offend...again..if you believe that people who view child porn are going to go out and offend..then you are saying the same about people who view any sort of porn..in other words..your saying that I and probably most people on these forums are rapists because they like porn.
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and if we give up the laws we have on it now then there will be nothing to stop them in the long run and if that were to happen you might as well tell your children that at some point they will be harmed and there is nothing you can do about it.
1. There are already laws...laws have NEVER been a detterent in anything. the threat of hanging never deterred people from commiting crimes and it was only because of a case where someone was wrongly hanged that hanging was abolished in the 60's? (I think)
2. You'll always have to tell your children that they will be hamred in some way if they're not careful..thats part of life...kids get killed on the roads every day..its a sad fact of life that no one is truly safe on the streets
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Why not just take these children to their houses and hand them over to them because in the long run it will happen anyway. And, to be honest I am not willing to hand my childs innocence over to anyone for any reason.
So why not just push the children on the motorway to get run over cos as u say, it'll happen anyway some day. Kids are more in danger of the roads than anything else and whilst your there teaching your kids about the dangers of talking to strangers (and rightly so) your not teaching em how to do simple things like crossing the raod safely..Its up to YOU as a parents to see that your children are safe from ALL dangers in life
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Childen and women were just property and from some of the posts I see here some wish it were that way again and that really makes me sad that people just view their children as property and just another thing to expoit.
There is not one message in this thread that has made me think that anyone sees children as property or sources of sexual desire...not one person here has condoned the abuse of any child what-so-ever. What some were saying was that merely looking at children in an image is NOT harming a child...the actual harm to the child has already been done WITHIN those images (depending on the images ofcourse) and then the topic went slightly off onto the subject of "age of consent" and some were saying 13 or 14 would be a suitable age for them to enjoy their sexual needs without fear of being made a criminal by these fucked up hypocritcal laws.
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These men need to go out and get a freaking life and learn how to get a woman and quit preying on the children of this world
Hehe..thought so...everything you said above was referring to MEN only....women are sooooo innocent arent they???...let me tell you...women are just as capable of raping men, and little boys and girls ......women are just as capable of downloading and viewing childporn..and I know all of this for a fact
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. August 2004 @ 07:04
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Nunya1
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12. August 2004 @ 05:45 |
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shan...
You said it in your own words..."these people need help" so why then do you condemn these people and say that castration and prison is the answer? 1 castration may detour thier actions but its never going to stop another one from doing it, my goodness we are talking about people and human sexuality here, and everyone i mean everyone is a sexual being its the single most important reason we all live, procreate! Yes some people do things that others dont like but its kind of like this, why should they be persecuted by laws when "they need help". im sure you probably like certain foods that other people do not like does that mean that you should be prosecuted for it, very few may not like it and youre not part of the majority so that makes you criminal??{i know thats a weak example but I think its get my point across}If you have a friend who is sick do you condemn them for having lets say AIDS..they got it from being gay! Do you condemn them because of the way they are made? We are all different does that mean the differences constitute totally destroying them and thier lives for being different? If we were all exactly the same this world would be very boring wouldnt it?
Now the issue here isnt about abuse, its about people having thier lives totally destroyed for having and looking at pictures of children engeged in sexual activites on thier personal computers, in the privacy of thier own homes, behind closed doors.And the excessive punishments many of the worlds governments have put on them. Once again..NO ONE DESERVES TO GO TO PRISON FOR LOOKING OR HAVING OBJECTIONAL MATERIALS ON THIER COMPUTERS UNLESS THEY HAVE CREATED IT AND OR WERE DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN THE CREATION OF IT!!!
Is justice holding a person accountable for the creation of anothers persons actions..NO!!! It hypocrasy , lunacy, and is even more objectional than the actual images themselves.
Do you think that if you had a friend who ended up having a problem with alcohol and got in an accident and killed someone as a direct result of his alcoholism it would be fair to throw the people who made the booze that he/she got drunk off of in prison?? NO, you go after the person who commited the "ACT" of getting behind the wheel and drove the car and inevitably crashed into another and killed them!The principles are the same all across the board be it drugs, alcohol, guns ect. You get the people who physically and directly "ACTED" upon the crimes, not the bystanders or "onlookers"! Right?!!In the US they appear to be doing exactly the opposite, they appear to be going after the "onlookers". they had made 6,611 arrests here since last july. take a look at this link http://www.ice.gov/graphics/ look at the section named "Statistics". It appears that collateral damage is ok to them! Well to me its not!
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Shan1225
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12. August 2004 @ 11:34 |
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Okay first of all Mart I have been through many years of Therapy and recovery and coming to grips with my own life thank you for your concern on that. I have not abused my children because unlike others who have not seeked help for their abuse issues I did. Not all people who have been abused go out and offend I know not all who have been abused go on to offend. Now, I have spanked my children. However, I got away from doing that because it has caused more problems such as one child hits their sibling so what does the p2arent do they go in and hit the child who hit. Now, what did that parent just tech that child. That when you do something I don't like you are goign to get hit. Hmmm, seems to me it defeats the purpose. Same thing with Sexual Abuse many grow up thinking their only worth as a human being is for sex which then leads to many other problems. I know that women can be just as guilty as men my step father who abused me was abused by his mother. She used to take us through her house and show us where she put each of her kids heads through the wall she was very proud of it. So, yes I know women are just as likely as men however, I was not abused by a female I was abused by a male. So, sorry for the generalization women also should gt the help they need and get lives and quit preying on the childrenof our world. Now, being a victim of Child abuse I think if i were to search those sites and find pictures of myself being abused that would throw me right back into therapy and not only that but, I would be trying to get the pictures removed from the internet. Now, someone else may have been abused and instead of getting mad they feel their only worth is sex so they leave their pictures on the internet. How many times does the victim have to be victimized befoe enough is enough. Now, say your Girlfriend goes to a bar with her friends and gets totally trashed and goes into an alley to throw up and then gets raped and beaten and then the "offender" splashes the pictures all over the internet are you saying that you would want people to view that. No, if you love the person you would be trying to do what you had to do to protect her from that. It is no different with Child Porn or any porn that is not concential. A child does not have the mind set to consent to have their image splashed all over the internet. Hollywood stars who have made their own videos spend lots of money to get their videos off the internet and out of stores. Was it Paris Hilton's choice to diclose that video no she I am sure found out from someone else they were there. Now, say in 20 years when these children grow up they have been to therapy go to college and build their life in a productive way. They get a job and the next thing you know some co worker who has found the pictures starts putting them up all over work. Are you goign to say that is not going to affect the Victim in some way. And to be quite blunt about it if you get the ones who are looking at it then the people making it will have no reason too put it up. Then my children would not have to be so careful about how they worded their searches to find something that should just be simple. You can put in your search something as simple as White House and get all kinds of porn listings. So, yes I do help my children with their searches and I view every site before I let them look at it. I do not think that is censoring them I think that is protecting their innocence for as long as I can. If you are too open about sex that leads to problems just as much if you are to rigid around sex. So, you have to decide for you and your kids what they need to know now and what can wait till they have the compacity to understand. And, not all children view sex as a loving thing. Many children who have walked in on their parents making love think that their father is hurting their mother or vice versa. For, the most part I have not told my children that no they cannot watch a movie because there is sex in it. I do view it first and if I think it is not too bad then I may decide it is okay for them to watch it if they want. I don't encourage them to watch them however either. And I guess that is what they are getting at with this too. No, they may have not put the porn there they may have not done the act themselves however they are also providing a market for it. It is the same in product distribution. Remember Crystal Pepsi I happened to very much like Crystal Pepsi however obviously not many people did for it is no longer sold. So should I sue Pepsi because they no longer sell a product that in my opinion was good just because obviously more than half of their market did not like it. No, I would be laughed out of the court that is what would happen in that case so when there was no more Crystal Pepsi I learned to live without it.
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Nunya1
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13. August 2004 @ 05:29 |
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Shan...
Heres another twist to legal issues involving kids. Why is it Ok for the U.S. Government to prosecute kids as young as 12 or 13 and sometimes as young as 11 as adults? They run them through a battery of mental health services and they most often than not deem them as capable enough to be tried convicted and sent to prison for thier crimes! I guess I am a creature of absolutes...when the written laws say that the american people have freedom of speech , expression, and to the press and...heres the "Key" to the 1st amendment...they shall never rewrite any law that takes that away! They did it, after 214 years the rewrote it for child porn and threats. Being an absolutist that means to me that the amendments are nothing but empty words and that the law makers can do anything they want...that puts them above the law, which is against the law!The worldwide accepted age of consent and legal age of adults is 18, now why then can they go and put little kids(as young as 11) in prisons if the legal age is 18? Theres too many fucked up twists to laws and thier is NO balance of Justice even though the american symbol for Justice is the scales! They are way..WAY off kilter!And Ive said this before, if you really think american beurocrats give a rats ass about kids, try asking all of the parents of the kids in Iraq who were killed by Americans. We went to war because Bush wanted us too not because we had too, none the less ask the Iraqi parents what they think of americas views on children!This is by no means a perfect world but when our Leaders, people we choose to run our countries compound issues that only make things harder on the citizens either morally, socially, economically, or even ethically is wrong wrong wrong!
Back to the issues at hand "Child Porn" my opinion will not change, they are going after the wrong people, they need to go after the creators of it, not the consumers. And Mart Mart is correct...they will never get rid of it for 1 major reason, over 90% of it comes from Russia and the Ukraine and I dont believe that any country in the world has enough diplomatic sanctions with them to ever get them to work with them on this issue and they will not use up all those $millions of dollars to track, prosecute, and imprison these people when they have much much bigger problems to deal with.
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MartMart
Junior Member
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13. August 2004 @ 07:53 |
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Nunya1
It came to my attention last night that a few members including moderators have come to the conclusion that because of your views (which I mostly agree with) that you and I are sick perverted paedophiles who are in some way condoning and supporting paedophilia, childporn and underage sex.
It just shows the mentality we have to put up with.
I want to make it clear right now that I in no way what-so-ever condone or support any sort of sexual abuse of children, be it for pornographic purposes, sexual satisfaction, or any other reason that one might physically or sexually abuse a child.
I wholeheartedly support anything done to STOP childporn but the situation at the moment is they';re not targetting the makers of childporn..they're targetting the users of childporn which will NEVER stop the flow of it and because of this the market for childporn will stay as strong as ever.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. August 2004 @ 08:00
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Shan1225
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13. August 2004 @ 10:10 |
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Nunya1.....I do agree that they need to go after the sources also but, what I am saying is the people who are looking at it are just as responsible. But, the thing is if you believe that such as you say it is coming from Foreign countries mostly then let me put this question on the table how do you expect that we as Americans can stop it. You obviously don't support the war in Iraq so war would not be the answer and most of those countries do not have as strict of laws as we do on Pornographic material and even Child Abuse therefore they may thinkit is perfectly natural. For many countries as the US did years ago still view their children and wife as property. And no I am not saying that youhave those views but, I have done may papers on child abuse and back when child abuse in this country was starting to come out in the open the laws for that they had none theyfell under laws for abusing or brutally killing an animal now how sad is tht for our country and even as early as the 1950's this was true the laws were just not as strict. Now, Child Protective Systems whatever they call it in wach state they swing on a very wide pendulum I have called child protective services many times for something I have seen that to me was abusive that to me is my responsibilty to any child in those situations and some have been somewhat minor to pretty major things and at times I think man they don't do anything to help those children and then others usually after some child has ended up dying and have come under criticizm it seems they are after everyone for the most minor of things. Now, as for the trying children as an adult I really have differing feelings on that and I am goign ot share those. At some point in our children's lives whether we were the most wonderful of parents or not they they even as children need to take responsibility for their actions and should have (if not from us) then from school and society learned right from wrong. Therefore if a child kills someone at the age of 13 or 14 and if in interviewing that child they knew what they did was wrong and yet chose to do it anyway then yes I agree they should be prosecuted as an adult. Do I think that if the 2 young people who shot up Columbine School had not committed suicide they should have been tried as adults Yes I do with all my heart I do. I think they should have to get life in prison with no chance to ever get out again. Did they give any of those people the choice of whether they wanted to die or leave the situation. No, they did not just take away their freedom for a few years they took it away forever. Punishment fits the crime. And in all actually I definately believe in the death penalty. Now, in the matter of children commiting sexual crimes and I a not just talking about against a child I am talking about anyone the family needs to be investigated also. A child does nt just wake up one day and say well I think I will be a sexual deviant and if the source of their abuse is disclosed that person needs to be just as responsible if not even more responsible for the crime they should try to save the child if they can yes but, the person who commited crimes against them should be held responsible for that and should be a co-defendant for that childs crimes. The problem with that is most people never even come out about it much less tell who did it. I went through the abuse for man years because i was told by my step father he would kill my mom and mybrothers if I did not do it. Many children choose to block it out completely and the only way it comes out is when they hit rock bottom and end up in therapy maybe even for something else all together. So, the thing is I have no idea how to run a government or make laws bu, I also can say that if it was not something they cracked down on more then I would have to leave the country because it is my rights to be Happy, Healthy , and Safe and I will fight for that no matter the cost.
Now Mart I don't even know you or Nunya so I cannot say that you are perverts I am expressing my views and giving a little insight as to how I feel on the subject and though we have differing opinions does not mean that I do not respect your opinion that is the beautiful thing about being human beings we can have differing opinions and stil for the most part still live in the world together. So, I am not trying to say that you are wrong or I am right that is the way it is maybe I am wrong and you are right but, that does not mean I am going to give up the things I believe in. I am personally not a person who cares anything about Pornographic material that is just me that does not make me wrong and it does not make you wrong for enjoying it. That is the sad thing about humans is if someone reveals something they enjoy and someone else does not enjoy it they both seem to think they may be the strange one. I have personally seen people who use pornographic material to inhance their sex lives and I have seen pornographic material tear families and marriages apart. Pornographic material is not a necessity in life as far as I am concerned and does nothing one way or the other for my libido No Biggie I just don't buy it then. I just wanted you to know I still respect you as a human being no matter our differences.
So while I do believe that they need to go after the source (maybe we should discuss maybe things they should do to do that?) I also believe that the people who are seeking it out need some kind of punishment for it because whether people agree with the law or not it is still a law and obviously more do agree than don't in the law or there would not be a law.
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MartMart
Junior Member
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13. August 2004 @ 10:41 |
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Hiya Shan...I'm sorry..I wasnt actually referring to you in my previous post :-)
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Nunya1
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13. August 2004 @ 11:35 |
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Ok, so I am a sick perverted sexual deviant...is this what the moderators think? I can see how what I have said can be viewed that way but 1st...Im not..i dont condone child pornography , and 2 i should expect close minded people to misinterpret what anyone and everyone says. I guess they have been trained to think this way by society. This is exactly what I should expect.Its just like racial predjudice and its just like I have said people fear or hate what they do not understand and/or refuse to look at open minded. I thought this was the information age, well along with information comes intelligence but it seems to lack common sense. This is not the dark ages and we should not target people to destroy them because of our own personal predjudices. This is precisely why I call the "Operation Predator" that the the U.S. government has embarked on a "Witch Hunt". They have ruined too many peoples lives because of the objectional materials that some people have on thier computers.
I want to make this very clear to all of you who have deemed me as a sexual deviant or a pedophile. I DO NOT CONDONE CHILD PORNOGRAPHY IN ANY SHAPE OR FORM.But I strongly feel that too many governments are severely mishandling the attempt to irradicate it.And too many people have become collateral damage to this Witch Hunt and there is absolutely no justice in that. There are other ways of dealing with the irradication of child porn and the way they are doing it isnt fair by any means.
I read somewhere that the Uk has considered and amnesty program for people who have CP on thier computers. Its very similar to what America did a few years back with Guns (Oh, in case any of you didnt know guns KILL people, pictures dont)
The program allows people who have Cp on thier computers to turn in thier PC`s and go thru whatever therapy the government deems appropriate and they will not prosecute them for it. This is how I feel it should be handled and not like this..boom you have it on your comp, youre going to prison , no if`s and`s or but`s your going, and were going to make you register as a sex offender whether or not you have physically touched anyone and we are going to splatter your name and face all over the media for all to see what we have done to you and after all that were going to leave this conviction on your criminal record forever which will deny you any opportunity to ever be an asset to your communities and will bar you from making a decent living in the working world. you will be condemned to a life of poverty and thus it will put you into a position of which you will probably resort to a life of crime just to survive.
Is that Justice???? Hell no it isnt, They dont even treat Murderers, bank robbers, drug dealers, or rapists that bad...and all this because the have pictures that many dont like on thier computers!!
Thats not justice..is it?
And to all you moderators thats think Im sick and twisted I will repeat myself once again, I DO NOT CONDONE CHILD PORNOGRAPHY AND i AM NOT S CIK PERVERT what I am is a friend of a person who has had his life totally destroyed by the government mishandling of this issue and thier harrassments. I think its bullshit. If anyone in here believes that I am so be it, but the simple truth is I just a man who has sat back watched and listened to the law makers, tv perosnalities, and the average joes out there for 39 years seem to get more and more ridiculous with thier approaches to too many things that can be handled sensibly and it pisses me off. theres many things i feel have been handled past the point of being sensible (ignorant if you will) Mandatory minimums, war, Drug laws in the US that are as fucked up as the CP laws ( NO ONE DESERVES A LIFE SENTENCE OR DEATH FOR SELLING DRUGS) Health Care issues, nd the list goes on....the world doesnt have to be as messed up as it is and wouldnt be if we all execised common sense..does anyone know the 10 commandments? They are the foundation to sensible ways of socially governing our countries.
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Shan1225
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13. August 2004 @ 14:09 |
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Okay Nunya I am not starting to understand you a bit more. However, in some of your esrlier posts it sounded as if they you were saying that having CP on your computer is not to be of concern to the government or to the people who are surrounded by them. First, of all I am sorry for your friend it seems he is going to be made an example of and that is sad however, it happens on more than one occasion. However, I don't think that your friend is right either and maybe you should send your concerns to your congressman and senators for really that is really the only place that our concerns will be heard and changed. And, maybe you are right maybe they should have their PC's taken from them and be put into therapy but, I think they way they are looking at it is every citizen of the US has the resources to realizes our shortcommings and the ability to seek the help we need if we need them. So they are just assuming these people don't think they need the help and they may be an injustice on their part take up for your friend and maybe start educating the people in your community and by all means have anyone who supports you and your views wirte to their senators and congressman. They work for us for a reason they are our voices when it comes to laws and the things that concern us. And, if people do not use those services the laws will never change. Maybe they have not considered this and maybe you should bring it to their attention. Just like us they are not mind readers and so they need to know our concerns and our thoughts and what we will and will not tolerate. I am not saying it is going ot change but,it very well may and that would be something I could live with. I mean there is 3 strikes your out out there for a reason. It is just sad that most Americans feel they cannot do anything about it anyway so they just don't try but, they do have the reources. And just for the record Nunya I do not believe you are a bad person or a pervert or anything as a matter of fact you seem like a very level headed thinker and that is nice to see. We may have differing opinions on things but, that is the joy of being an American and a Human we can do that.
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Nunya1
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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13. August 2004 @ 16:19 |
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Shan...Heres more thoughts for everyone to consider! He told me that He had become addicted to porn ..any kind of porn not just Kiddy Porn & He did in fact seek help and guess what He was told by the Conselor...that federal Law requires anyone in mental health services are required to report anything to them when it is considered a crime against children or whenever they feel anyone is in danger,so, you tell me, what was He supposed to do? Well, thats another bullshit trap that the government has set down to condemn people for having "pictures" on thier computer. The guy is a recovering alcoholic (5years) and has an addicitive personality in the 1st place and was allowed to get help for his addiction but wasnt for this one! Where is the Justice in that? The Govt doesnt deny helping addicts or people who are violent so why is this an exception? If you wanna picture this..a man reaching out for help only to put his hands out for a lift up and the fucking feds slap hand cuffs on him!I have written my senators and I have gotten mixed responses from them! I sent them an over 2,000 word letter and it appears that only the Democratic party members feel that the laws may be excessive and 1 of them even went as far as to say He feels that the Federal Government has no business handling issues like this! they are best at national security and issues of that nature. The Federal Government does not view each and every case individually and they only seem to be concerned with statistics and not individuals who do in fact have faces, families, jobs and so on. Now the Republican responses seem to be exactly what you would expect, they appear to think that anyone who purposely or inadvertantly get involved in this does not deserve any leniency whatsoever. My Opinion is that the republicans are the executioners in our world and do not care about much more than thier wallets. The democrats seem to care about people, so guess which way im voting! its just so damn messed up when someone you know who you know well enough to say that they would never ,ever ,ever molest a child gets involved in some bad shit and asks for help before he gets caught and is denied the chance and eventually gets caught and is now going to jail for 5 years. Its just not fair! What about his family, his friends..or at least those of them that dont duck and run from him now, after the press coverage and all the excessive hype that surrounds this issue. The whole thing is mass hysteria and I cant say that its unfounded but I can say its not as bad as everyone blows it up to be! After all he didnt touch, molest, solicite, cohearse, or manipulate anyone with his actions therefore if you really look deep into this He created absolutely no victims by his actions. This is not justice, this is harrassment, persecution, and I cant say uncalled for but I will say the punishment far exceeds the crime!
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signal
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2. September 2004 @ 20:18 |
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i have a solution, track the people down who do this sick disgustiong thing and remove their junk. lol, they should be punished, that much is true. Any person willing to do such a thing deserves to be punished. but the sad part about this i, is that the people who are putting on the child porn are the parents and family members.
Broken Signal
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MartMart
Junior Member
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3. September 2004 @ 05:52 |
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Thread Title: "FBI targets child porn on P2P"
1. Why P2P? Why target anything other than the people who abuse and exploit the children? ie: the SOURCE of the child porn.
2. Define Child Porn.
Would anyone here consider a picture of a nude boy or girl to be child porn>? or would that picture have to be of a sexual nature (ie: erection or sexual contact between 2 children or sexually suggestive poses etc) to be considered child porn? or all of the above?.
If you answered all or even part of the above then checkout some films which are perfectly legal yet contain child nudity of both male and female and in one such film clearly shows a young boy of about 11 or 12 with an erection. Its called "1900" and it stars Robert Deniro, Burt Lancaster, Donald Sutherland, and Gerard Derpediuer (sp?) all highly famous hollywood filmstars. Child Porn?
3. Why is child porn only availiable on the internet according to the media? why is the main focus of targetting child porn only for the people who download from the internet? what is it about the internet that makes child porn seem much much worse than from anywhere else? Anyone who mentions child porn these days associate it only with the internet...child porn can be bought from anywhere if you know where to get it.
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sgtmaddog
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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2. August 2005 @ 10:53 |
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you guys are weirdos.just get a fricken parential control.i don't know why porn is so addicting.just play
games like battlefield 194 or half life 2 something.sheesh. remember something worse than porn. Ravenholm.
"we don't go to Ravenholm anymore"
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