|
New ruling could eventually lead to blocking of used game sales
|
|
The following comments relate to this news article:
article published on 14 September, 2010
Thanks to a new judgement made by the United States Court of Appeals, used game and software sales may be a thing of the past.
The decision (linked below) rules that "a software user is a licensee rather than an owner."
Originally, the suit was brought forward by Autodesk, the makers of the expensive AutoCAD software, who were angry a consumer purchased many copies of the software ... [ read the full article ]
Please read the original article before posting your comments.
|
|
xtago
Senior Member
|
16. September 2010 @ 09:00 |
Link to this message
|
Originally posted by lissenup2:
Yeah.........there's a right way to doing things and a wrong way. This is definitively a wrong way. Consumers buy the software whether it be on a physical medium or a download therefore, IT BELONGS TO THE CONSUMER. We're not buying "rights to use it", we're buying a COPY of it and therefore we can sell it to whomever we want. I'd be willing to fight this one in court. Just need a judge with a reasonable mindset and not a Stalinistic one.
If this passes then every F'ing manufacturer will jump on the bandwagon and "license" everything from furniture to pet food forbidding anyone to sell anything ever...............forcing people to buy another good.
This sucks and so does American Business. The very notion that video games are rendered useless or not worthy of use after playing/completing merits the right to re-sell. This is true of AutoCad. Obviously they don't refund or accept returns. What if a business closes down??????? Then re-selling is the only practical means.
Enough ranting........this is simply screwing the customer and solely benefiting the manufacturer.
You'd never own the software though.
ever gotten a plastic wrapped MS product?
Once you open the wrap you waiver all rights you have and give them over to MS.
As for your court case you'd lose as as copyright's trademarks and patents have already beaten you to the punch.
The problem with used software sales will be that a end user is acting like they made or and own the rights to all proftits of that game and in law that isn't the case.
Autocad, costs a few grand, and if that end user is buying copies to simply resell on ebay, who's have to supply end user support and patches the end user selling on ebay or Autodesk?
It'd be like you making software for $50,000 and I buy 1 copy and I'd just start selling it everywhere and give you nothing back I bet you'd be wanting to clean me up in court as well.
And I guess I could just turn around and say you don't have any rights to any of the money I've made from your software so screw you.
|
|
Advertisement
|
|
|
|
|
xtago
Senior Member
|
16. September 2010 @ 09:04 |
Link to this message
|
Originally posted by Pop_Smith:
As for the reselling of video games, I've never seen a screen with a license agreement nor have I had to sign a paper stating that I accept a "license agreement" for the software before I open or used it. That, as far as I can tell, means that this shouldn't be applicable to video games.
Yeah you have, it'll be in 2 places the back of the manual.
and the other
The install program will ask if you agree to the terms.
Don't agree then you can't install.
|
Senior Member
4 product reviews
|
16. September 2010 @ 21:45 |
Link to this message
|
Originally posted by willyguzz:
As much as this is bullshit and sucks bad, it makes me smile at the idea of Gamestop going out of business.
this will hurt alot more than gamestop your looking at a possible end to game rentals as well.
this law will remove the need for self check Games are 60 dollars now...if this law passes they can charge whatever the hell the want, they can also keep the price high. it'll also end billions of jobs.
but who cares about jobs right i mean hell money grows on trees.
Powered By
 |
Senior Member
2 product reviews
|
16. September 2010 @ 23:55 |
Link to this message
|
Originally posted by xtago:
Yeah you have, it'll be in 2 places the back of the manual.
and the other
The install program will ask if you agree to the terms.
Don't agree then you can't install.
I do see that on the computer. However, GameStop (and other companies) make most of their money off re-selling used console games, not PC games.
As for console games they've said in the manual that you "can't rent, distribute, etc. without a license" from the copyright owner of the game for years. That means companies could have already legally stopped the re-selling of their games before this ruling even came about.
"The only people who should buy Monster cable are people who light cigars with Benjamins." - Gizmodo
|
|
kfir1
Member
|
17. September 2010 @ 07:27 |
Link to this message
|
|
F@%#$#K autocad ... They are just a small bitter company not making any money. Just because of this company we can no longer buy used games or software apps. Gamestop, etc, should counter sue for their own good.
We should call autocad and send them "HATE" emails. BASTARDS.
|
|
rking_ad
Newbie
|
17. September 2010 @ 08:44 |
Link to this message
|
|
Give me a pencil and some paper and I'll just draw the damn thing!
--pcdtv--
|
Newbie
|
17. September 2010 @ 08:52 |
Link to this message
|
|
OK, this does suck, I work for a company that uses the Autodesk software in several divisions, it is a pain in the @$$ to reinstall legit copies we already own when a PC dies, never did like Autodesk simply because of the way they license thier crap.
As for the aftermarket resellers go don't charge for the actual game call it a swapping fee to help pay for the service being provided by places like gamestop. that way you are not technically re-selling anything but providing a paid for service to the public.
|
|
Mez
AfterDawn Addict
|
17. September 2010 @ 09:19 |
Link to this message
|
Originally posted by kfir1:
F@%#$#K autocad ... They are just a small bitter company not making any money. Just because of this company we can no longer buy used games or software apps. Gamestop, etc, should counter sue for their own good.
We should call autocad and send them "HATE" emails. BASTARDS.
I really like that concept! Form a class action suit for damages of persons the US not being able to buy or sell used software/games. Hit them up for 500,000 USDs for a few years loss of business. I bet that is probably doable. I bet Autodesk would sh1t their pants. Put those bastards out of business.
|
|
igor2know
Newbie
|
17. September 2010 @ 09:53 |
Link to this message
|
When I buy an item. It's mine. Period. I have the right to sell it when I'm finished with it.
This ruling will incite law-abiding consumers to run to the torrent sites for illegal copies of games.
Talk about shooting yourself in the foot!!!!
|
|
cpt_custard
Suspended due to non-functional email address
|
17. September 2010 @ 11:12 |
Link to this message
|
Originally posted by Dardandec:
WELL IF WE CANT SELL, LETS SWAP EM INSTEAD
Yeah!! We could swap them for cash
|
|
murphj11
Junior Member
|
17. September 2010 @ 13:40 |
Link to this message
|
|
Do your own thing...tell no one.
|
AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
|
17. September 2010 @ 14:52 |
Link to this message
|
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
|
Shifty_1
Newbie
|
17. September 2010 @ 15:13 |
Link to this message
|
I still have an old Windows XP disk laying around. I bought it. It's mine, not Microsoft's. I have installed it multiple times in the same upgraded box. (I call Microsoft and demand they give me a new reg number, and they do. Every time :). If I want to sell it to someone who can use it, it is my "right" to do so. And they should have the right to do the same as long as it's on only one machine at a time because it's an OS. I'm okay with that.
If you are no longer using Autocad, the software still exists. If you sell it to me, I now own it because I have the disks to prove it. I should have the right to use it.
I could give a good crap what a EALA says. As long as I don't give away copies, install it on other people's machines, or sell multiple copies then I am within my rights as far as I'm concerned.
If I personally own 5 machines, I have the right to install my Photoshop suite on all five machines. I don't care what Adobe says, so long as I am the primary or only user then it's my right to do so (PERIOD).
I bought it, it's mine!
The problem is we are bad consumers for letting them get away with this bullshit!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 17. September 2010 @ 17:50
|
Newbie
|
17. September 2010 @ 16:52 |
Link to this message
|
|
Well now... we were looking at purchasing AutoCad, but in view of this I think we'll look around for something else, or just do without.
|
Newbie
|
17. September 2010 @ 17:15 |
Link to this message
|
Originally posted by Shifty_1:
If I personally own 5 machines, I have the right to install my Photoshop suite on all five machines. I don't care what Adobe says, so long as I am the primary or only user then it's my right to do so (PERIOD).
I can tell you have not really read the agreements have you.
section of Photoshop 7.0 license agreement:
2. Software License. As long as you comply with the terms of this End User License Agreement (the "Agreement"), Adobe grants to you a non-exclusive license to Use the Software for the purposes described in the Documentation, as further set forth below. Some third party materials included in the Software may be subject to other terms and conditions, which are typically found in a "Read Me" file located near such materials.
2.1. General Use. You may install and Use a copy of the Software on your compatible Computer, up to the Permitted Number of Computers.; or
2.2. Server Use. You may install one copy of the Software on your Computer file server for the purpose of downloading and installing the Software onto other Computers within your internal network up to the Permitted Number or you may install one copy of the Software on a Computer file server within your internal network for the sole and exclusive purpose of using the Software through commands, data or instructions (e.g. scripts) from another Computer on your internal network, provided that the total number of users (not the concurrent number of users) that are permitted to access or Use the Software on such Computer file server, does not exceed the Permitted Number. No other network use is permitted, including but not limited to, using the Software either directly or through commands, data or instructions from or to a Computer not part of your internal network, for internet or web hosting services or by any user not licensed to Use this copy of the Software through a valid license from Adobe; and
2.3. Backup Copy. You may make one backup copy of the Software, provided your backup copy is not installed or Used on any computer. You may not transfer the rights to a backup copy unless you transfer all rights in the Software as provided in the Transfer section in this Agreement."
2.4. Portable Computer Use. The primary user of the Computer on which the Software is installed may also make a second copy for his or her exclusive use on a portable Computer provided the Software on the portable Computer is not being used at the same time the Software on the primary computer is being used.
|
AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
|
17. September 2010 @ 17:27 |
Link to this message
|
|
Offline computers, gotta love um ;)
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
|
rking_ad
Newbie
|
17. September 2010 @ 18:14 |
Link to this message
|
|
"Anything to do with computers is legal"
My favorite quote from one of my son's friends in high school.
Oh, the galloping idiocy of youth! I miss it!
--pcdtv--
|
|
Shifty_1
Newbie
|
17. September 2010 @ 18:32 |
Link to this message
|
Originally posted by rtlinux:
I can tell you have not really read the agreements have you.
I really don't care about their agreements. Not only have I read Adobe's agreement, I phoned them about it and let them know what I thought of it.
1) Just because they write and make me accept an agreement doesn't mean it is not in violation of my rights.
2) IMO the license should be bound to the owner, not the computer. My computer is not allowed to buy software for it's own use. I strictly forbid that kind of behavior in all the computers I own. They know better! My computer doesn't need Adobe suite for any reason, I do. If I own 4 computers and I'm the only or primary user I will put it in all four computers. I might have to work at home, while traveling and at work. I might have another office. As long as I am the primary user, Adobe is welcome to have intercourse with themselves if they don't like it. I really don't care.
3a) Any Eula's or contract (excluding those written by lawyers for lawyers) that cannot be read and understood by a 3rd grader are void. And that should be a law. That's part of what's wrong with this country, the lawyers own it.
3b) EULAs or contract that state they can change the rules any time they want for whatever reason they want should be automatically void and ignored.
4) EULAs should be allowed only one short and concise paragraph no more than 300 words. Or the software should only be allowed to be sold with free legal consultation available before purchase.
I obey the important laws like not stealing or killing etc. But some laws are stupid and therefore just don't apply to me. Laws making a license-able contract between my computer and the manufacturer of software that I bought and paid for should be ignored. And I do.
I never make copies and give them away. I never let a friend borrow my software. I never install it on a machine not my own. I never download pirated software.
I do read the EULAs on the high dollar software, but I don't have the time to read every last one of them.
I love those HP's and Dell's when you first start them up out of the box it says you must accept the agreement. Fricken ingenious!
Uhhhhh, WTF are you gonna do? Not Accept it? And where was the EULA? Oh online, but I need a computer to get online... uhhh.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 17. September 2010 @ 18:39
|
|
omahamike
Newbie
|
17. September 2010 @ 19:21 |
Link to this message
|
|
I totally agree with you, but I'm afraid that in the end, we'll both lose. Haven't you figured out that they're in charge yet??
I have, and I just go about my business as if I'm NOT GUILTY, which I do believe I am!
|
|
Shifty_1
Newbie
|
17. September 2010 @ 19:55 |
Link to this message
|
|
That's pretty much what I'm saying. I don't feel like I'm cheating anyone. But they sure are cheating us. Because we let them.
|
|
bluedogs
Member
|
17. September 2010 @ 20:15 |
Link to this message
|
Originally posted by lissenup2:
Yeah.........there's a right way to doing things and a wrong way. This is definitively a wrong way. Consumers buy the software whether it be on a physical medium or a download therefore, IT BELONGS TO THE CONSUMER. We're not buying "rights to use it", we're buying a COPY of it and therefore we can sell it to whomever we want. I'd be willing to fight this one in court. Just need a judge with a reasonable mindset and not a Stalinistic one.
If this passes then every F'ing manufacturer will jump on the bandwagon and "license" everything from furniture to pet food forbidding anyone to sell anything ever...............forcing people to buy another good.
This sucks and so does American Business. The very notion that video games are rendered useless or not worthy of use after playing/completing merits the right to re-sell. This is true of AutoCad. Obviously they don't refund or accept returns. What if a business closes down??????? Then re-selling is the only practical means.
Enough ranting........this is simply screwing the customer and solely benefiting the manufacturer.
Actually read the EULA. When we buy software we never own it, we are merely given permission by the creator to use it and that it remains the property of the creator. You never own it. It has been like this for years. It is wrong but that is the way it is.
|
|
n0b0dy187
Newbie
|
17. September 2010 @ 21:18 |
Link to this message
|
|
OK, SOOOOOO......My question is this: If they are trying to stop piracy why oh why in the world would they do this???? If I can't buy a used game for half price on eBay then I WILL I repeat I WILL steal/pirate games. This is the most ridiculous thing i have seen in my life. These people are idiots and i hope everyone protests this company so they go out of business. This will only make the piracy rates SKYROCKET. I know a lot of people who pirate games but if they find the game they like a reasonable used price they will buy it. Well what if you cant buy them used anymore? What do they think they are accomplishing?
|
|
culade
Newbie
1 product review
|
17. September 2010 @ 22:21 |
Link to this message
|
Originally posted by xtago:
It'd be like you making software for $50,000 and I buy 1 copy and I'd just start selling it everywhere and give you nothing back I bet you'd be wanting to clean me up in court as well.
i'm kinda sick, so maybe i misunderstood, but i you're talking about piracy which is not the case here. the consumer sold copies they bought, not copies of one paid-for copy.
Originally posted by xtago:
Autocad, costs a few grand, and if that end user is buying copies to simply resell on ebay, who's have to supply end user support and patches the end user selling on ebay or Autodesk?
again, Autocad got their money when the consumer paid for the copies so they aren't out any money. they would be giving support for paid copies, not pirated copies.
|
|
Advertisement
|
|
|
|
Shifty_1
Newbie
|
17. September 2010 @ 22:31 |
Link to this message
|
Originally posted by bluedogs:
Actually read the EULA. When we buy software we never own it, we are merely given permission by the creator to use it and that it remains the property of the creator. You never own it. It has been like this for years. It is wrong but that is the way it is.
Yup, I suppose possession is 9/10s of the law, and so while they lay on my floor with a smoking hole in their chest, clutching their disks in their cold stiff hands... I guess it's irrelevant to them who owns what. And they are welcome to be buried with it. :)
Nowhere on the box did it say Adobe Suite Rental Version or Loaner Edition.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 17. September 2010 @ 22:32
|
