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It looks like the new copy protection really is here
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JoeSimz
Newbie
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7. November 2010 @ 00:25 |
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Originally posted by funksoulb:
Originally posted by JoeSimz:
So AP 2.5 (wave 7) games will not boot on the kinect dashboard, online or off - remember this is only known for sure as Fable III
This is a bit misleading because you put "wave 7" in brackets, implying that wave 7 games have AP2.5. Fable 3 is wave 6 and that's AP2.5 protected. Hasbro Family Game Night 3 is wave 7 and that's not AP2.5 protected. The Kinect games are wave 8 and 9. Basically, the wave doesn't have anything to do with it really. There's currently no way to test for AP2.5 other than booting a game on the Kinect dash, which of course will flag the console if it is protected.
This is what you get when a noob (me) tries to act smart. lol, thanks for the info funksoulb
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JoeSimz
Newbie
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7. November 2010 @ 00:29 |
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Originally posted by QuenteK25:
Originally posted by QuenteK25:
What if I run the backups on my offline flashed 360 that has the NXE dashboard, (gamertag is on usb drive), then just put the usb in my non-flashed online 360 and continue to play retail games....that gonna be an issue for my non flashed box or gamertag?
Anyone?
Shouldn't be a problem.
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QuenteK25
Junior Member
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7. November 2010 @ 09:46 |
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Originally posted by JoeSimz:
Originally posted by QuenteK25:
Originally posted by QuenteK25:
What if I run the backups on my offline flashed 360 that has the NXE dashboard, (gamertag is on usb drive), then just put the usb in my non-flashed online 360 and continue to play retail games....that gonna be an issue for my non flashed box or gamertag?
Anyone?
Shouldn't be a problem.
Thanks JoeSimz
Anyone else confirm that?
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AfterDawn Addict
3 product reviews
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7. November 2010 @ 10:53 |
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Originally posted by QuenteK25:
Originally posted by JoeSimz:
Originally posted by QuenteK25:
Originally posted by QuenteK25:
What if I run the backups on my offline flashed 360 that has the NXE dashboard, (gamertag is on usb drive), then just put the usb in my non-flashed online 360 and continue to play retail games....that gonna be an issue for my non flashed box or gamertag?
Anyone?
Shouldn't be a problem.
Thanks JoeSimz
Anyone else confirm that?
Might be a issue with your gamertag, defo not your unflashed xbox.
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snickle
Member
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7. November 2010 @ 11:08 |
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Originally posted by QuenteK25:
Originally posted by QuenteK25:
What if I run the backups on my offline flashed 360 that has the NXE dashboard, (gamertag is on usb drive), then just put the usb in my non-flashed online 360 and continue to play retail games....that gonna be an issue for my non flashed box or gamertag?
Anyone?
No, it will not be an issue as long as one of the consoles isn't banned, because then it would corrupt your gamer tag.
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JoeSimz
Newbie
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7. November 2010 @ 11:32 |
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Cant your gamertag only get corrupted if you have Kinect Dash and your flagged? not the NXE?
If you have the kinect dash on the non-flashed console, and its not banned/flagged you should be fine; I don't see playing even on a banned NXE an issue, because I do not believe it corrupts your profile unless your on the Kinect Dash and your flagged (which you are not, correct?).
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QuenteK25
Junior Member
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7. November 2010 @ 13:48 |
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Correct!
Thanks guys, I was a bit concerned there, but thought I should be safe. Glad to hear it from those who know more than I do!
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dimasok
Newbie
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15. November 2010 @ 08:11 |
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So any game that is AP25 is a no go until the next firmware hack? isn't there SOME way to boot them after applying the new dashboard and everything?
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snickle
Member
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15. November 2010 @ 10:42 |
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Originally posted by dimasok:
So any game that is AP25 is a no go until the next firmware hack? isn't there SOME way to boot them after applying the new dashboard and everything?
Samsung and some hitachi drives are apparently not affected.
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jpizzle
Senior Member
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15. November 2010 @ 12:36 |
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just to make sure everyone knows, AP 2.5 has been disabled on JTAGs but DashLaunch 2.05 which is available for download HERE
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Thosmos
Member
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15. November 2010 @ 13:22 |
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Originally posted by jpizzle:
just to make sure everyone knows, AP 2.5 has been disabled on JTAGs but DashLaunch 2.05 which is available for download HERE
I have downloaded the new ABGX and have seen that with the new version 103 that the AP25 will show if present in the ISO. Can't we just open the game iso, and remove all of the "dash" files from within the update folder contained in the iso, save then run though ABGX to test if that AP25 is gone? Or has anyone else already tried this?
Lite-On 74850, Ben-Q 64930, Hitachi 47DJ, Samsung MS28.
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jpizzle
Senior Member
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15. November 2010 @ 15:21 |
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modified ISO is an even faster way to get yourself banned
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Senior Member
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15. November 2010 @ 15:55 |
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Originally posted by Thosmos:
Can't we just open the game iso, and remove all of the "dash" files from within the update folder contained in the iso, save then run though ABGX to test if that AP25 is gone? Or has anyone else already tried this?
AP2.5 has nothing to do with the update folder in the video partition, so even if you could remove that, it wouldn't get rid of AP2.5. The game itself requires the latest dashboard update to be installed, so that wouldn't work anyway unfortunately.
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Thosmos
Member
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15. November 2010 @ 18:24 |
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Originally posted by jpizzle:
modified ISO is an even faster way to get yourself banned
This is just to play the game, anyone can get banned playing on line (Which I seldom do anyway) -- this is so that the game will run off line without running the Dash update, which will hose all of your now working older backups, that worked before the new dash.
From what I can tell, the Iso contains the update, and could even ask you to update the dash, and do so, while being off line.
Chech the update folder in the iso's for AC:B and Fable 3.
Lite-On 74850, Ben-Q 64930, Hitachi 47DJ, Samsung MS28.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 15. November 2010 @ 18:25
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Senior Member
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15. November 2010 @ 18:44 |
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Originally posted by JoeSimz:
Cant your gamertag only get corrupted if you have Kinect Dash and your flagged? not the NXE?
If you have the kinect dash on the non-flashed console, and its not banned/flagged you should be fine; I don't see playing even on a banned NXE an issue, because I do not believe it corrupts your profile unless your on the Kinect Dash and your flagged (which you are not, correct?).
after the NXE update last year and banwave that followed all systems banned will result in a gamertag corruption. this was found last year when the banwave hit and people were swapping profiles from banned boxes to unbanned boxes. the profile would work fine on the banned box until moved to the unbanned box where it would be "corrupt" you can open it and edit some stuff on your PC and make it uncorrupted again....until you use it on the banned box and then it happen all over again.
If you send me questions on Live about modding or anything related i will block you. Dont be an idiot.
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Thosmos
Member
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16. November 2010 @ 14:02 |
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Originally posted by stealthdf:
Originally posted by JoeSimz:
Cant your gamertag only get corrupted if you have Kinect Dash and your flagged? not the NXE?
If you have the kinect dash on the non-flashed console, and its not banned/flagged you should be fine; I don't see playing even on a banned NXE an issue, because I do not believe it corrupts your profile unless your on the Kinect Dash and your flagged (which you are not, correct?).
after the NXE update last year and banwave that followed all systems banned will result in a gamertag corruption. this was found last year when the banwave hit and people were swapping profiles from banned boxes to unbanned boxes. the profile would work fine on the banned box until moved to the unbanned box where it would be "corrupt" you can open it and edit some stuff on your PC and make it uncorrupted again....until you use it on the banned box and then it happen all over again.
And it seems that with this information:
========paste==========
From the se7ensins forums:
Difference between a RETAIL game and a BACKUP:
Retail discs include a security layer that a DVD burner cannot reproduce. When making a copy of the retail disc that security info can be read and stored but cannot be rewritten on the backup the same way it existed on the original retail disc. That is why you must have a modified firmware (flashed xbox) that will be able to read/respond to that security information even if it is not stored in the same way as an original retail disc. This is what SSv1 and SSv2 refer to, the way the backup stores the security info to be read by the flashed xbox drive.
AP25 and YOU:
First off, FIFA 09 is not an AP25 title. Currently the only AP25 titles are Fable 3 and Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood.
What is AP25? Anti-Piracy 2.5 Simply put, its an updated security layer on both the disc and in the game files.
There is a lot of confusion on how AP25 actually works, many people just make something up or attempt to make it sound far more technical (scarier) than it really is.
Like the security system outlined above AP25 should work in the same way but with an added check. When you attempt to boot the game AP25 kicks in and asks the DVD drive to check some things on another security layer. If you have a backup of an AP25 title in the drive this check will fail because those security layers do not exist on the backup. Because AP25 is new, the current LT firmware does not have the ability to fake a response or look somewhere else for this security info if you are trying to play a backup copy. If you have the original retail disc in the drive the AP25 check will pass because the drive is able to location the security layer and return the proper response. When LT+ is released it should support this new security feature and be able to answer future AP25 checks without the retail disc. This is being referred to as SSv3 (our new fake security layer for backups).
**Ok, so without LT+ if I want to play an AP25 game like Fable 3 I need the retail disc?:
Yes.
What about the Nov. 1 Dash update? (Kinect Dash):
Dash update is safe. The only reason an old dashboard will not fail an AP25 check and the new dashboard will is old dashboards do not support the new security feature. Basically before the dashboard update on Nov.1 the 360 didn't look for AP25 because it didn't know it was supposed to. The new dashboard now has that support built in. Other than that, its just a dashboard update.
Why do people say Samsung and Hitachi drives are safe? Is my LiteOn/BenQ not safe?:
Some drives may be physically unable to read this new security layer (AP25 layer) and thus are considered "safe" from the new AP25 checks. LiteOn and BenQ drives are able to read this information and when asked by an AP25 title they will.
So, can I replace my 360's drive with a Samsung to be safe?
No. A drive is locked to the 360 it shipped with and cannot be swapped out. There is a method known as "spoofing"(copying some of the drive info to make the xbox think its the original) that will allow another drive to work. This is NOT a safe way to avoid AP25 checks. Even though the drive works, when an AP25 title asks for the check to be performed, your xbox will still "think" it has the original drive, so if it was a LiteOn or BenQ before then it will attempt to check even if it can't. If the check doesn't pass then your xbox will fail.
What happens if I fail an AP25 check?:
If you happen to fail and AP25 check for any reason your xbox will record this failure and your console will report back to MS that this check has failed. Currently it is believed Microsoft is collecting data for another ban wave using this information. Being flagged doesn't guarantee a ban, but MS is aware that your xbox did not pass.
I've also heard AP25 could be added to older games with a title update?! Is this true?:
Yes and No.
AP25 checks could only be added if the original disc had an AP25 security layer to begin with.
**If I fail an AP25 check will it prevent me from playing other backups?
No. When an AP25 title fails the test it does in fact return an unreadable/dirty disc error. Essentially, it is looking for something that cannot be found on the disc so the error comes back as unreadable/dirty disc. This is ONLY for the failed AP25 title and will ONLY happen on the backup. If you failed an AP25 check with say a Fable III backup, you can play with the retail disc just fine because when it looks for the AP25 information it will find it. Failing the AP25 check will not prevent other non-AP25 titles from playing nor will it prevent you from playing legit retail copies of the AP25 title even after failure. There is no corruption or dirty MS tricks involved with this, the backup disc you are attempting to play (AP25 title) really is unreadable since the AP25 data isn't there.
**Will the upcoming LT+ software fix my AP25 failure flag?
No. When LT+ is available and flashed on the console, even after a failed AP25 check, your backup AP25 title should then become readable as the drive can now look elsewhere for that stored AP25 response information. I do not expect the flag to be removed after flashing with LT+ due to the fact you can currently pass the AP25 check using a retail disc but the flag will remain if you failed the check prior. Think of the Xval(secdata) like the Windows Event Log. When an error occurs it records the error in the log for the Admin (in this case Microsoft / XBLive) to look at. What MS chooses to do with that information is still up in the air.
**As Jester pointed out in this thread, you can also write protect the NAND to prevent the xbox from being able to log security events such as failing the AP25 check. It will not bypass the check but if you were to fail the check it would not record the failure for future reporting to MS next time you are online. A guide for this will be added soon however it is recommended, unless you feel safe soldering things to the xbox motherboard, that you stick to double-checking your iso's before tossing the disc into the drive. If you xbox is already banned this may be of use to you as well.
=========snip===========
It's stating that the new Dash does not make old backups unplayable. Only flags your machine for possible future ban, had the SP25 negotiation failed -- in which case the disk would have returned a dirty disk error or some sort.
I have read here that some have updated to the new dash, and this has rendered their old back ups unplayable.
Anyone have first hand experience?
Lite-On 74850, Ben-Q 64930, Hitachi 47DJ, Samsung MS28.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 16. November 2010 @ 14:04
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Just10Jor
Junior Member
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16. November 2010 @ 18:05 |
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so ive been slacking on the whole mod scene and like a moron i updated my offline console to the new dashboard when i tried to play the new assassins creed and and kept getting the disc error message. So i came back to this sight and read that theres some new anti-piracy protection BS so i figured ohh whatever i cant play new games at the moment, not a big deal. So i switched back to my other xbox that i go online with to find that my gamertag was corrupted. I realize this new dash corrupts your profile and i was just wondering until this new FW comes out is there a way to get the old dashboard back so i can play my older games for the time being
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Senior Member
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16. November 2010 @ 18:08 |
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no u cant downgrade dashboards. older backups still work fine tho. you will need to either uncorrupt your profile or recover it from live
If you send me questions on Live about modding or anything related i will block you. Dont be an idiot.
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Just10Jor
Junior Member
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16. November 2010 @ 18:13 |
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thanks for the quick reply stealthdf. Sorry for my ignorance but as far as trying to get achievements and what not on my offline console and than putting my memory card in my online console and recovering that data and registering those points is pretty much out of the question at this point, correct?
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Thosmos
Member
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16. November 2010 @ 18:16 |
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Originally posted by Just10Jor:
so ive been slacking on the whole mod scene and like a moron i updated my offline console to the new dashboard when i tried to play the new assassins creed and and kept getting the disc error message. So i came back to this sight and read that theres some new anti-piracy protection BS so i figured ohh whatever i cant play new games at the moment, not a big deal. So i switched back to my other xbox that i go online with to find that my gamertag was corrupted. I realize this new dash corrupts your profile and i was just wondering until this new FW comes out is there a way to get the old dashboard back so i can play my older games for the time being
I heard that that was not possible -- downgrading to an older dash. But I don't have first hand experience.
But one question for you. When you updated to the new dash... other than getting the read disk error with AC:B and it corrupting your profile, did the new dash render any of your older (non AP25 disks) unreadable?
Lite-On 74850, Ben-Q 64930, Hitachi 47DJ, Samsung MS28.
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Just10Jor
Junior Member
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16. November 2010 @ 18:18 |
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Originally posted by Thosmos:
Originally posted by Just10Jor:
so ive been slacking on the whole mod scene and like a moron i updated my offline console to the new dashboard when i tried to play the new assassins creed and and kept getting the disc error message. So i came back to this sight and read that theres some new anti-piracy protection BS so i figured ohh whatever i cant play new games at the moment, not a big deal. So i switched back to my other xbox that i go online with to find that my gamertag was corrupted. I realize this new dash corrupts your profile and i was just wondering until this new FW comes out is there a way to get the old dashboard back so i can play my older games for the time being
I heard that that was not possible -- downgrading to an older dash. But I don't have first hand experience.
But one question for you. When you updated to the new dash... other than getting the read disk error with AC:B and it corrupting your profile, did the new dash render any of your older (non AP25 disks) unreadable?
Nope, i was just gonna go back to playing vanquish for the time being hoping i can finish it out. But that game worked fine as well as my copy of fable III which didnt give me any problems when i first put it in my xbox a few weeks ago
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Senior Member
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16. November 2010 @ 18:21 |
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If you send me questions on Live about modding or anything related i will block you. Dont be an idiot.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 16. November 2010 @ 18:23
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Just10Jor
Junior Member
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16. November 2010 @ 18:27 |
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Senior Member
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16. November 2010 @ 18:31 |
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its expected before Christmas, thats all we know for now.
If you send me questions on Live about modding or anything related i will block you. Dont be an idiot.
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dmrhs2
Newbie
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17. November 2010 @ 13:24 |
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Sorry if this has been answered already!
I havnt played any of the 3 known AP25 games, my console has been online once to do the last dashboard update nothin more, so i should'nt be flagged.
1. If i update to the new dashboard (using my kinect install disc) will i def get a corrupt tag, unreadable backups etc.. if i did run a AP25 game?
i dont care if the worst is i'll get flagged as i will never use it or gametag online.
2. Can abg really detect if a game has AP25?
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