---

Taken from fw chat:

   1. Explanation of ap2.5 - what it is and what it isn't
   2. ===========================================
   3. Q: What IS ap2.5?
   4. A: Ap2.5 (antipiracy 2.5), essentially, is a bunch of checks the 360 performs on the disk to ensure that it's legitimate. The current/old system was ap2.0.
   5. Essentially, these are a bunch of challenges the 360 performs and the responses from the drive will indicate if the disk is legitimate or not. With ap2.0, iXtreme LT made use of the ss.bin file to fake the correct responses. This ss.bin was known as either SSv1 or SSv2, with SSv2 being a more secure version.
   6. In order to combat ap2.5, additional challenge responses will be required, this will come in the form of SSv3.
   7. So far, only certain newer games have been ap2.5, with no indication that older games will ever be affected by this (and if this is true, updating to the new dash and running older games that are properly stealthed should be fine), HOWEVER this could also change at any point. Ap2.5 is not something "on the disk", but rather something in the dashboard and drive firmware. Currently, all this is being tested and researched so the above information is not to be taken as gospel and may change at any time.
   8. Q: What drives are affected by this?
   9. A: Samsung drives do not have ap2.5, nor do some "old" hitachis. So the affected drives are mainly Liteons, BenQs and some Hitachi drives.
  10. Q: So what does that mean for us Samsung users?
  11. A: Essentially, nothing. The drive itself is incapable of utilising ap2.5, so future ap2.5 titles should boot just fine on the current iXtreme LT.
  12. Q: I don't have a Samsung drive, can I spoof one?
  13. A: Of course you can, but this will be detected and you will be banned.
  14. Q: Wasn't Fifa 09 an ap2.5 game?
  15. A: No, this is a misunderstanding that is still spreading to this day.
  16. There is a flag inside the XEX (Executable) of every Xbox360 game that indicates if it is ap2.5. This flag is exactly this - a flag (a yes/no or true/false), it has nothing to do with the actual ap2.5 operation. There was a bug in a program called XeXTool which made it look as though Fifa 09's XEX had been updated to set this ap2.5 flag as "true", however this was not actually the case. Fifa 09 falls under the category of "old/non-ap2.5" title. The first known game to have ap2.5 was Fable III and it's ap2.5 flag was NOT set, so it would appear as though this flag is not actually being used anyway.
  17. Q: c4eva says the update is safe, can I update my 360 and play backup games?
  18. A: What c4eva said is that the actual update process is safe (no special checks are done to detect if your drive has been modified while the update is being applied), however this does not necessarily mean that the additioanl ap2.5 checks wont flag you for a ban. Assuming that only newer games are ap2.5, then theoretically, you should be able to update and still play those games, but attempting to play an ap2.5 game will almost certainly get you flagged for a ban. Currently, there's no way to tell if a game is ap2.5 or not before booting it.
  19. Q: I heard that Wave 7 games are ap2.5, is this true?
  20. A: The "Wave" has absolutely nothing to do with ap2.5. All the wave patching in the world will not change this as they are two mutually exclusive things. If you're one of those people that needs to "patch" a games wave in order to play it, it's time to update your firmware (in fact, it was time to update your firmware over a year ago) as you wont be able to play ap2.5 games on the new dashboard at all.
  21. Q: Is Game X ap2.5 or not?
  22. A: Good question! Sadly, there appears to be no way of testing for this other than just attempting to boot the game on the new dash, the catch is that this will almost certainly flag you for a ban.
  23. It would appear that all future titles will be ap2.5, however for the moment, there will be a mixture of ap2.5 and non-ap2.5 games. For example, Fable III is definitely ap2.5, but it appears as though COD: Black Ops is not, despite COD releasing and being mastered long after Fable III. As with anything, you run a risk going on live at all and you run a bigger risk while all this is still being researched - if you want to protect yourself from being banned, stay offline and don't update until the new LT+ firmware comes out.
  24. Q: When will iXtreme LT+ be released?
  25. A: There is no ETA and asking for an ETA ANYWHERE (IRC, forums, etc.) will just get you flamed and banned. Do not ask, it will come when it comes.

---

Originally posted by JediOrc:

---

I found this on my finding and wanted to share this with you. There is a light at the end of the tunnerl :-)

Quote:

---

There is currently some panic going on over rumors of SSv3 and AP2.5.

Since the release of the Xbox 360, Microsoft has used a version of their game disc called Xbox Game Disc 2.0. This is why when you rip a disc, the filename is called something like XGD2DVD. Part of the Xbox Game Disc 2 spec includes a set of anti piracy protections called Anti Piracy 2.0, or AP2.0.

To combat the checks and measures included in Anti Piracy 2.0, the Xbox scene has developed a set of countermeasures such as the security sectors, or SS. The scene's countermeasures also have a set of specs of their own. Currently there are two specs in wide usage, version 1 and version 2. It is currently recommended that all backups have the version 2 spec of security sectors, or SSv2.

Recently, rumors have broken out about a recent leaked version of the Xbox 360 dashboard. (As of 10/28/2010 it has not been pushed to members of the official beta program). With this new leaked version, certain backups of new games such as Fable 3 and The Sims 3 do not work. So far, the community has only been able to gather that with this newest version of the dashboard, Microsoft is employing AP2.5.

AP2.5 is an updated spec of the original Anti Piracy 2.0. All drives ever made, from Hitachi onwards support AP2.5, but it has never been activated. To get into some technical moon language, "AP2.5 involves host supplied LBA checks, encrypted with AES, LBA's are submitted by the host (360)"

Transcript from c4eva:

<+c4eva> AP25 threat is real, but only MS knows if it will ever be enabled, since it has been in drive fw since hitachi!
<+c4eva> action against ap25 will be taken when it is used, until then we can only monitor!
<+c4eva> ap25 involves host supplied LBA checks, encrypted with AES, LBA's are submitted by the host (360)!
<+c4eva> not all drives support it, and they will have to make sure all drives that do support give back reliable results! not as easy as it sounds!
<rift> c4eva so just to make sure i got this correct, you said the 360 makes the AES'd lba request correct? not the drive?
<+c4eva> rift: transmitted to drive to do the checks!
<+c4eva> fifa is fine
The developers in the scene (i.e. c4eva, Team Jungle, etc.) have been aware of AP2.5 for some time now, at least one and a half years. They've been working on a new spec for security sectors, SSv3. SS v3 patches haven't been put into use yet because in the five years the since 360 has been out AP2.5 hasn't been used once.

From an April 2009 Team HyperX nfo released with their 0800 firmware:

SS v2 suports multiple timing samples for challenges type 5 and 7 , stroing them in the SS. This is a pre-requiste for SS v3 which has support for the so called AP2.5 check. Since this has never been used or may never be used by MS we will adopt a wait and see approach and continue to monitor for its usage.
This reason is because AP2.5 is likely one of Microsoft's last trump cards when it comes to detecting modified firmware and preventing the usage of backups, and if c4eva did indeed do a good job with the iXtreme LT firmware they may now be forced to play their hand.

More details and information is sure to follow in the days to come with the upcoming dash. If AP2.5 is employed, there is decent hope that the scene will already have countermeasures prepared to allow for these new AP2.5 backups to be played on modified systems. From the sounds of it only new titles such as Fable 3 and The Sims 3 (and future releases) will require SS v3 patches, as prior games with SSv2 / SSv1 (not recommended) will still work on the recently leaked firmware.

Don't panic!

---

Source: http://www.360pedia.org/wiki/The_Skinny_on_SSv3_and_AP2.5

Don't ask me questions please, im just a messanger :-D

---

Originally posted by Drake5314:

---

That info would be useful, except I forgot to mention I have a BenQ Drive. From everything I've read those shouldn't be playing ap2.5 at all! And still I can play Fable 3 but not Brotherhood.

Btw when I ran Fable 3 through abx360 it didn't say that the ap 2.5 was present, however it was for Brotherhood. Is it possible that there are some versions of the same game without the ap 2.5?

---

Originally posted by Modking30:

---

Originally posted by Drake5314:

---

That info would be useful, except I forgot to mention I have a BenQ Drive. From everything I've read those shouldn't be playing ap2.5 at all! And still I can play Fable 3 but not Brotherhood.

Btw when I ran Fable 3 through abx360 it didn't say that the ap 2.5 was present, however it was for Brotherhood. Is it possible that there are some versions of the same game without the ap 2.5?

---

It means you weren't on the current dash. Probably 9199 or prior. I played through Fable III on my lite-on 9xxx series drive but I was on 9199 at the time. AP2.5 checks don't kick in until the new dash is installed. Now new games that come out have it on the disc.

---