|
|
|
Mapping The Mobile Landscape: Does Closing Windows Make Sense For Microsoft?
|
|
The following comments relate to this news article:
article published on 5 October, 2012
In the first two installments in this series examining the mobile device market we have looked at Apple and Amazon. This time around we'll be talking about a company who currently only competes in the smartphone market but whose tablets are perhaps the most anticipated product to come along since the original iPad. That company is Microsoft and obviously the tablets are the numerous models ... [ read the full article ]
Please read the original article before posting your comments.
|
|
h0g1e
Newbie
|
6. October 2012 @ 18:35 |
Link to this message
|
Quote:
Do you work on the Windows 8 development team?
I wish ... but unfortunately whilst being relatively skilled in the coding department, my imagination is terrible ... I'll leave the thinking and dreaming to the pros :)
Quote:
I love change and I love inovation but I hate shite! Windows 8 is the worst OS I have ever tried to use, nobody in my family wants to use it. We have removed it from our main PC and peace and harmony has returned.
Quote:
Not liking Win8 (and Vista, and ME before it) doesn't imply that I like Apple's products, it implies I dislike crap products. Nor does it imply that I'm "afraid of change"; your logic is deeply flawed. Nor do I own a single Apple product.
There are a few main reasons (as I've said on this forum before) I heartily dislike Windows 8, after trying the x86/x64 version:
- Metro. I simply dislike the Metro interface, especially on a non-touchscreen device. Using Metro with a KB/mouse is painfully inefficient, and furthermore, I don't have a PC to run phone-style apps. That's why I have a smartphone, which also happens to integrate with my PC as much as I need it to already.
- Bad integration of Metro with the (supposedly unneeded) desktop, which it dumps you to regularly. As someone noted above, it comes across as "schizophrenic". It's an obvious kluge, and comes across as the bastard child of Microsoft B.O.B. and Windows 7.
- Complete paradigm shift in developer workflow. Many small/indie developers simply won't be able to afford the significant investment required to learn and implement the new, required development tools (and the bigger houses don't like it much, either). This is a large part of why so many devs have been quite public in their scorn for Win8, in fact.
Do you guys happen to have a job? Or do you do all of your computing at home? I see Win8 re-defining the way business works. In our company we are just in the process of rolling out "industrial wireless" <-- breaks through the interference caused by much of the machinery on site. One reason we haven't rolled out wireless already it because we've tried iPads and Android tablets in the business, but they simply don't run enterprise apps and are not useful for business. We also experimented with WinXP and Win7 tablets which run enterprise apps well, but are just too hard to use on a tablet ... which is where Win8 will shine!
Where Apple started (and became successful) by producing "toys" for personal use, and Google has had a foot in both the business and the personal space, Microsoft has always aimed at being a purely "business" tool ... and I think the adoption may be slow (as it's hard to change consumer mindsets), but especially tablets and phones will begin to be truly useful for productivity as enterprise apps will be automagically compatible, and different cloud-based apps in the Microsoft exo-system will be brought together finally (i.e. sharepoint, office online, skydrive, lync, etc).
Sure, the unsophisticated of us will still be using WinXP, Win7, Apple, and Google products ... and they may be perfectly ok for home use ... but as a business productivity tool I don't see anything beating Win8 ... especially as it evolves into the future :)
I admit, my first try with Win8 didn't go too well as I was using it in the Beta and early versions ... and I was using it on Desktop ... but behind the Metro interface is a full operational OS, and I quickly saw the merits of having a cross-platform OS that spans multiple devices ... that said, we will be purchasing a swag of Win8 tablets as soon as they are released ... and our sales reps will be able to conduct sales orders on the road, the factory workers will be able to collaborate with handheld devices (finally), and there will be no compatibility issues between devices. Our CEO will no longer be frustrated trying to design a presentation with embedded videos, sound files, webpages in them ... and will have access to business-related Crystal reports where-ever he happens to be in the world. From an IT perspective, being able to tie all of this down using Group Policy, AD authentication, and NTFS permissions will be an added bonus for security and manageability :)
Keep hating :)
|
|
Advertisement
|
  |
|
|
|
joebloe12
Junior Member
|
8. October 2012 @ 03:36 |
Link to this message
|
Originally posted by SoTired:
These comments remind me of what people were saying when XP came out. http://lateblt.tripod.com/whyxpbad.htm
The challenge that OS engineers face today is that a computer is no longer just a desktop or a laptop. People want to use their tablets and phones as full-fledged computers too. And Apple isn't giving us that. The problem is that you don't interface with your phone the same way you interface with your tablet, or the same way you interface with your PC. So either you have a different OS for every device (a la Apple or some combination of Windows/Android) or you develop an OS that works on all platforms, although inherently requires some compromises to do so because of the different ways we interact with the different devices.
I am using Windows 8 on my PC, and the UI definitely is a big change that requires some getting used to. With that said, within a couple months, I'll have a tablet (and sometime after that, a phone) that all use the same OS. That creates opportunities and conveniences that will more than make up for the fact that the UI makes compromises in order to work across all of those platforms.
Under the hood, Windows 8 is rock solid. Much cleaner than Windows 7, which was already a very solid OS. And as tablets roll out, Windows 8 provides a huge improvement over Android and Apple OS offerings.
Change is hard. Which is why some of the pre-release comments about Windows 8 look just as harsh as some of the comments people were making about XP when it came out.
We'll see how many Windows 8 tablets sell over the holiday season. If it's as big a success there as I suspect it will be, then people will get used to the OS on their tablets and shortly thereafter will migrate on their PCs as well.
I don't see HOW this OS is going to be a "big success" as you put it!
Especially for people like me, who have been using Microsoft OS for my computer since the days it first came out! But don't even TRY to tell me that this is the same old stuff, when clearly it is not.
Yes for years Microsoft has been trying like apple to include DRM junk that not only gets in the way of the OS, but actually forces users to go to homemade patches, just to remove the DRM crap MS put in.
Now you are saying we should accept this? Sorry, but I think you are dead wrong on that one!If this OS becomes closed like apples, then people will be forced to go to jailbreaking it in order to use it the way THEY want!
You sound lkike a fanboy that is saying there is not much to worry about...I think with a closed system there is PLENTY to worry about!
The whole reason I use a PC, is because I am used to the basically open platform that windows has. If they close this OS like apple, then I just hope that there are a lot of hackers that can remove all the DRM junk that will come with this like they have for windows 7.
Otherwise I would not want it on my system.
|
|
joebloe12
Junior Member
|
8. October 2012 @ 03:51 |
Link to this message
|
Originally posted by h0g1e:
Quote:
Do you work on the Windows 8 development team?
I wish ... but unfortunately whilst being relatively skilled in the coding department, my imagination is terrible ... I'll leave the thinking and dreaming to the pros :)
Quote:
I love change and I love inovation but I hate shite! Windows 8 is the worst OS I have ever tried to use, nobody in my family wants to use it. We have removed it from our main PC and peace and harmony has returned.
Quote:
Not liking Win8 (and Vista, and ME before it) doesn't imply that I like Apple's products, it implies I dislike crap products. Nor does it imply that I'm "afraid of change"; your logic is deeply flawed. Nor do I own a single Apple product.
There are a few main reasons (as I've said on this forum before) I heartily dislike Windows 8, after trying the x86/x64 version:
- Metro. I simply dislike the Metro interface, especially on a non-touchscreen device. Using Metro with a KB/mouse is painfully inefficient, and furthermore, I don't have a PC to run phone-style apps. That's why I have a smartphone, which also happens to integrate with my PC as much as I need it to already.
- Bad integration of Metro with the (supposedly unneeded) desktop, which it dumps you to regularly. As someone noted above, it comes across as "schizophrenic". It's an obvious kluge, and comes across as the bastard child of Microsoft B.O.B. and Windows 7.
- Complete paradigm shift in developer workflow. Many small/indie developers simply won't be able to afford the significant investment required to learn and implement the new, required development tools (and the bigger houses don't like it much, either). This is a large part of why so many devs have been quite public in their scorn for Win8, in fact.
Do you guys happen to have a job? Or do you do all of your computing at home? I see Win8 re-defining the way business works. In our company we are just in the process of rolling out "industrial wireless" <-- breaks through the interference caused by much of the machinery on site. One reason we haven't rolled out wireless already it because we've tried iPads and Android tablets in the business, but they simply don't run enterprise apps and are not useful for business. We also experimented with WinXP and Win7 tablets which run enterprise apps well, but are just too hard to use on a tablet ... which is where Win8 will shine!
Where Apple started (and became successful) by producing "toys" for personal use, and Google has had a foot in both the business and the personal space, Microsoft has always aimed at being a purely "business" tool ... and I think the adoption may be slow (as it's hard to change consumer mindsets), but especially tablets and phones will begin to be truly useful for productivity as enterprise apps will be automagically compatible, and different cloud-based apps in the Microsoft exo-system will be brought together finally (i.e. sharepoint, office online, skydrive, lync, etc).
Sure, the unsophisticated of us will still be using WinXP, Win7, Apple, and Google products ... and they may be perfectly ok for home use ... but as a business productivity tool I don't see anything beating Win8 ... especially as it evolves into the future :)
I admit, my first try with Win8 didn't go too well as I was using it in the Beta and early versions ... and I was using it on Desktop ... but behind the Metro interface is a full operational OS, and I quickly saw the merits of having a cross-platform OS that spans multiple devices ... that said, we will be purchasing a swag of Win8 tablets as soon as they are released ... and our sales reps will be able to conduct sales orders on the road, the factory workers will be able to collaborate with handheld devices (finally), and there will be no compatibility issues between devices. Our CEO will no longer be frustrated trying to design a presentation with embedded videos, sound files, webpages in them ... and will have access to business-related Crystal reports where-ever he happens to be in the world. From an IT perspective, being able to tie all of this down using Group Policy, AD authentication, and NTFS permissions will be an added bonus for security and manageability :)
Keep hating :)
WOW! I have seen trolls before, but you really take the cake!
If you are stupid enough to think that ONLY business people will be using the new OS, think again. Some will buy it for a home PC and THAT is where the headaches will start!
Get it through you head...for a PC a closed system WILL NOT WORK!
It simply won't. If MS does go to a completely closed system, I give it a couple of days or less before it's jailbroken. Because most people don't like being told what they can and cannot do with their PC's! Or even tablets or phones for that matter.
I have a jailbroken IPhone 3 that works the way I want it to and I use the carrier that I want to use. But Apple tried to stop this by taking it to the courts and getting the courts to make jailbreaking illegal. Thankfully, someone with a brain did not let apple have it's way, saying that people SHOULD be ALLOWED to choose the carriers they wanted.
Thus jailbreaking was legal and the only thing apple could do, was to void the warranty, which I could care less!
It all comes down to letting people have choices and people like you make me mad because you are saying we should just take this closed OS crap lying down!
Sorry, I don't think so!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. October 2012 @ 03:54
|
|
h0g1e
Newbie
|
8. October 2012 @ 04:40 |
Link to this message
|
It will definitely be interesting to see where all this heads in the next few years ... I see there is a lot of stigma to break through, and I guess mobile technology is still in it's infancy. People seem to be becoming emotionally attached to their devices, and simply "hate" any competition that threatens to "change" what they know and love to be true ...
I really do hope that companies like Microsoft, Nokia, and others such as HTC can break through some of this negative stigma and introduce some true competition in the marketplace ... it's definitely an exciting time that we live in :)
Oh thanks for calling me stupid by the way ... I appreciate the encouragement.
|
Senior Member
|
10. October 2012 @ 16:02 |
Link to this message
|
|
Every time I see someone saying that this crap will be great for "enterprise" they always say...
"It is the only way to use a tablet in Enterprise..."
That very well may be true.
But why the hell do you have to ruin my DESKTOP OS?
I could care less about a touch tablet. I don't walk around with my PC while I'm at work. I use my DESKTOP to do WORK.
Hey, make a new OS that can use a mobile OS in a VM.
Or tightly integrate it with the mobile OS.
Either of these would have been fine.
But to turn my DESKTOP into a MOBILE/TOUCH computing system in order to keep up with the "Apples" or to lock up the ecosystem is just going to PISS ME OFF!!!
Oh, Im sorry... Did the middle of my sentence interrupt the beginning of yours?
|
|
SoTired
Junior Member
|
10. October 2012 @ 16:50 |
Link to this message
|
|
ThePastor, Windows 8 has a desktop as well as the Metro UI. You can switch between the two easily enough when you want to. On my PC, I mostly use the desktop. There's always room for improvement, but the desktop works fine. You have to get used to the lack of a start button, but it's not that difficult.
|
Senior Member
|
10. October 2012 @ 18:25 |
Link to this message
|
|
It isn't the only way you can run a tablet! That is ridiculous at best. In fact you can buy tablets with Windows 7 (RT) on them.
Second, although you maybe able to switch into a regular Desktop UI you should NOT be forced to use that Metro shat!! That is even more ridiculous!!!
The Metro crap is all due to the iCrap crowd and one would hope dumb does not prevail however it seems to be creeping in unfortunately.
|
|
SoTired
Junior Member
|
10. October 2012 @ 19:23 |
Link to this message
|
|
Mr. Movies, I don't think you are forced to use Metro. As I use Windows 8, the only time I ever see Metro is when I first log in, and then I click on the "desktop" tile and don't see Metro again. In no way are you forced to use Metro, except for the fraction of a second it takes to click "desktop." Perhaps I misunderstand your point?
|
|
h0g1e
Newbie
|
10. October 2012 @ 19:44 |
Link to this message
|
In my Win8 testing I too turned off Metro ... and ran it on a desktop. The backend was strikingly similar to Win7, but seemed to be even lighter and run quicker on the crappy old PC I had it installed on.
I find it so hard to believe that so many people using a technology website like Afterdawn would be so quick to shoot it down and say "I hate it ... I will never touch it again" without even testing it. Maybe you tried the first version of it? That version wasn't the best, and only gave a "taste" of what was to come ... the newer versions are a lot less buggy and I think people will actually get used to the simplicity of Win8 and become even more productive.
That said, I'll likely stick with Win7 on my Desktop for a while because its working fine, but in the future I may ditch laptops for a Win8 tablet like the Microsoft Surface or it's variants ... what a pleasure to travel with :)
|
Senior Member
|
10. October 2012 @ 20:31 |
Link to this message
|
All pundits point to the idea that Microsoft is "moving away" from Desktop to a more "mobile" centric system. Windows 8 is an "in-between" OS meant to wean you off of your desktop and onto a mobile device. I don't think there is any doubt that this is in direct response to the iPadification of the computing world. It's sad, really. The industry is taking away your wide open and infinitely customization desktop and replacing it with a severely restricted, DRM laden closed eco-system "device" and they're doing it by convincing you that it's the cool thing to do.
Windows 8 won't do it. It will just be a toe in the door, but there is no doubt that this is where it's headed.
Think you can install that torrent client on your new Windows 10 "PowerTab"? Think of all of the shareware/freeware that you use on your PC and then imagine it after Windows is required to vet it all.
As for the Metro UI. I've used the beta, and yes, you can get the desktop, but most configurations were done in Metro. Most "Windows" things were done in Metro. Charms and hot corners and all that crap which is useless without touch.
Imagine being a phone tech support person trying to explain to a complete novice user how to navigate the Metro interface. It will be a nightmare!
These things do not just "happen". They have a purpose.
The purpose of Windows 8 is to move YOU away from your open and non-proprietary system into a controlled system where everything can be monetized and vetted.
After all, That's how Apple does it. It MUST be the right thing to do.
Oh, Im sorry... Did the middle of my sentence interrupt the beginning of yours?
|
Senior Member
|
10. October 2012 @ 21:00 |
Link to this message
|
Originally posted by SoTired:
Mr. Movies, I don't think you are forced to use Metro. As I use Windows 8, the only time I ever see Metro is when I first log in, and then I click on the "desktop" tile and don't see Metro again. In no way are you forced to use Metro, except for the fraction of a second it takes to click "desktop." Perhaps I misunderstand your point?
You just said we are, as you boot into Metro, that is forced to use Metro. What you do from there is another thing but you can't boot into Windows!
Not the sharpest bulb in the bunch I'd say....
|
|
h0g1e
Newbie
|
10. October 2012 @ 21:19 |
Link to this message
|
|
Change hurts
|
|
ddp
Moderator
|
10. October 2012 @ 21:57 |
Link to this message
|
|
play nice children!!!
|
|
SoTired
Junior Member
|
10. October 2012 @ 22:49 |
Link to this message
|
Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
Originally posted by SoTired:
Mr. Movies, I don't think you are forced to use Metro. As I use Windows 8, the only time I ever see Metro is when I first log in, and then I click on the "desktop" tile and don't see Metro again. In no way are you forced to use Metro, except for the fraction of a second it takes to click "desktop." Perhaps I misunderstand your point?
You just said we are, as you boot into Metro, that is forced to use Metro. What you do from there is another thing but you can't boot into Windows!
Not the sharpest bulb in the bunch I'd say....
Clicking through the Metro Screen on the way to the desktop is less effort than typing your name and password into the login screen. In that situation, you don't "use" Metro; you simply click through it.
But regardless of what verb you choose to use, I am a little surprised that anyone would be so exasperated by the fact that they have to click through the Metro screen on the way to the desktop that they would take the time to rant on the internet about how "ridiculous" it is.
Those of us who have better things to do -- such as jobs -- and enough sense not to mix our metaphors, will probably live with the minor inconvenience of the click-through until Microsoft comes out with a patch that provides the option of going directly to the desktop from the login screen.
|
|
Advertisement
|
|
|
|
adre02
Member
1 product review
|
11. October 2012 @ 08:17 |
Link to this message
|
Originally posted by ThePastor:
Every time I see someone saying that this crap will be great for "enterprise" they always say...
"It is the only way to use a tablet in Enterprise..."
That very well may be true.
But why the hell do you have to ruin my DESKTOP OS?
I could care less about a touch tablet. I don't walk around with my PC while I'm at work. I use my DESKTOP to do WORK.
Hey, make a new OS that can use a mobile OS in a VM.
Or tightly integrate it with the mobile OS.
Either of these would have been fine.
But to turn my DESKTOP into a MOBILE/TOUCH computing system in order to keep up with the "Apples" or to lock up the ecosystem is just going to PISS ME OFF!!!
Use windows 7. Problem solved. No one is forcing you to use a newer os.
This is superman
|
|
