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Microsoft hit with $730 million fine in EU over default browser choice screen
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The following comments relate to this news article:
article published on 6 March, 2013
The European Commission has once again fined software giant Microsoft over failing to comply with its commitment to give users a chance to choose their default browser when purchasing a new PC.
Microsoft has been hit with the 561 million euro ($730 million) fine for what it has called a "technical error" within its Windows 7 OS.
In 2009, the company agreed to present a web browser ... [ read the full article ]
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Senior Member
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6. March 2013 @ 22:52 |
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Ugh! The European Commission are such big babies. Why do they not make Apple do the same with browser choice? Or any other OS for that matter. I wonder if they complain that no one really downloads Opera... They probably blame Microsoft for that too.
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Staff Member
4 product reviews
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6. March 2013 @ 22:55 |
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Originally posted by bobiroc:
Ugh! The European Commission are such big babies. Why do they not make Apple do the same with browser choice? Or any other OS for that matter. I wonder if they complain that no one really downloads Opera... They probably blame Microsoft for that too.
Windows: 92% market share
Mac: 7%
Others: 1%
That's why.
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Senior Member
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6. March 2013 @ 22:58 |
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Originally posted by DVDBack23:
Originally posted by bobiroc:
Ugh! The European Commission are such big babies. Why do they not make Apple do the same with browser choice? Or any other OS for that matter. I wonder if they complain that no one really downloads Opera... They probably blame Microsoft for that too.
Windows: 92% market share
Mac: 7%
Others: 1%
That's why.
Big deal.. This whole marketshare crap is old. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. If the EC was so concerned about fairness and ethical competition they would make the rules the same for everyone that makes and operating system. Do they put the same ridiculous restrictions on products in other markets that have a high marketshare?
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Staff Member
4 product reviews
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6. March 2013 @ 23:19 |
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Originally posted by bobiroc:
Big deal.. This whole marketshare crap is old. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. If the EC was so concerned about fairness and ethical competition they would make the rules the same for everyone that makes and operating system. Do they put the same ridiculous restrictions on products in other markets that have a high marketshare?
Yes, they do. EC is very progressive and pro-consumer.
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Senior Member
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6. March 2013 @ 23:32 |
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Originally posted by DVDBack23:
Yes, they do. EC is very progressive and pro-consumer.
They are pro-European companies and seem to find bogus reasons to attack companies that are not from Europe. If they were so pro-consumer they would make the rules the same across the board no matter how much a company sells their products. That is what is fair.
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Junior Member
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6. March 2013 @ 23:42 |
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Originally posted by bobiroc:
Ugh! The European Commission are such big babies. Why do they not make Apple do the same with browser choice? Or any other OS for that matter. I wonder if they complain that no one really downloads Opera... They probably blame Microsoft for that too.
Seriously, what a joke this fine/law is. If you don't like IE you know how to change it when you install Windows! You don't need government intervention to baby sit you through this process.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. March 2013 @ 23:43
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Element6643
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7. March 2013 @ 00:47 |
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So....Europe fines Sony less than $400,000 for millions of stolen personal data and credit card info, but fines Microsoft almost three quarters of a million because people can't take a few minutes to install their favorite browser after setup? What a world. -_-
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Junior Member
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7. March 2013 @ 03:17 |
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Originally posted by bobiroc:
Ugh! The European Commission are such big babies. Why do they not make Apple do the same with browser choice? Or any other OS for that matter. I wonder if they complain that no one really downloads Opera... They probably blame Microsoft for that too.
Funny you should bring up Opera. It's my default browser. I love it.
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Senior Member
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7. March 2013 @ 07:56 |
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Originally posted by Element6643:
So....Europe fines Sony less than $400,000 for millions of stolen personal data and credit card info, but fines Microsoft almost three quarters of a million because people can't take a few minutes to install their favorite browser after setup? What a world. -_-
Exactly my point. They are revengeful and spiteful. Don't get me wrong if Microsoft was forced to agree to this browser choice on install then they should comply by it but the fine is ridiculous.
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Senior Member
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7. March 2013 @ 08:51 |
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Originally posted by bobiroc:
Originally posted by DVDBack23:
Originally posted by bobiroc:
Ugh! The European Commission are such big babies. Why do they not make Apple do the same with browser choice? Or any other OS for that matter. I wonder if they complain that no one really downloads Opera... They probably blame Microsoft for that too.
Windows: 92% market share
Mac: 7%
Others: 1%
That's why.
Big deal.. This whole marketshare crap is old. What is good for the goose is good for the gander. If the EC was so concerned about fairness and ethical competition they would make the rules the same for everyone that makes and operating system....
I have to agree with Bobi, Apple should comply too. They also claim their software products are the acme of their type, so naturally offering a choice would conflict with that image. With their rampant sponsorship of TV and movies Apple give the impression they are ubiquitous (everywhere that's cool at least).
Most Linuz OSs offer a choice as far as I know.
Originally posted by Element6643:
So....Europe fines Sony less than $400,000 for millions of stolen personal data and credit card info, but fines Microsoft almost three quarters of a million because people can't take a few minutes to install their favorite browser after setup? What a world. -_-
Funny, I read three quarters of a BILLION! And I have no doubt they will contest the amount.
Good thing they don't advertise MSE. :)
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Its a lot easier being righteous than right.
DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. March 2013 @ 08:57
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Member
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7. March 2013 @ 09:22 |
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And what about a browser choice in mobile operating systems, too? Maybe there is no need of anything because if you don't like the default one you can download any other one easily and for free? Exactly the same happens with MSIE and its competitors, but Microsoft is the only one fined here. The whole thing is a complete nonsense.
"You know, it seems that quotes on the internet are becoming less and less reliable." -Abraham Lincoln.
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Senior Member
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7. March 2013 @ 11:13 |
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Originally posted by dali:
Exactly the same happens with MSIE and its competitors, but Microsoft is the only one fined here. The whole thing is a complete nonsense.
Apparently it is anti-competitive for Microsoft to include their own branded browser with their operating system but perfectly OK for other Operating System makers to include their own branded browser.
To me that is like punishing or restricting a certain race or ethic background of people simply because there are more of them but allowing the minority races or ethic background people extra freedoms. Of course that happens too
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Member
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7. March 2013 @ 12:17 |
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Originally posted by bobiroc:
Apparently it is anti-competitive for Microsoft to include their own branded browser with their operating system but perfectly OK for other Operating System makers to include their own branded browser.
Yes, but the browser is not the only tool included in the operating system environment. What about the notepad, the media player, and the calculator, for instance? Should Microsoft provide a screen for each of those apps to make the customer's choice easier, too? (My question is retorical, of course; my guess is that you share my opinion on this matter).
Originally posted by bobiroc:
To me that is like punishing or restricting a certain race or ethic background of people simply because there are more of them but allowing the minority races or ethic background people extra freedoms. Of course that happens too
Agreed. Such thing is called "positive discrimination", although discrimination is never positive by definition, is it?
"You know, it seems that quotes on the internet are becoming less and less reliable." -Abraham Lincoln.
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Senior Member
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7. March 2013 @ 12:25 |
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Originally posted by dali:
Yes, but the browser is not the only tool included in the operating system environment. What about the notepad, the media player, and the calculator, for instance? Should Microsoft provide a screen for each of those apps to make the customer's choice easier, too? (My question is retorical, of course; my guess is that you share my opinion on this matter).
I guess I think of it this way. When you buy a computer or an operating system (including free ones) it should give you the basic tools to do your computing out of the box and to me that includes internet browsing, playing videos, basic note taking/document creation and other basic applications. It is not unfair for the maker of that Operating system to include their own tools just like it is not unfair for other industries to include their own equipment/features in their branded products. It would be unfair if the maker of that operating system prevented the installation of other tools such as an alternative browser or media player etc.. This is not happening and has not happened.
Adding this extra step just adds a layer of confusion to the users and is unnecessary. Alternative browsers and applications are abundantly available and it is not the fault of Microsoft or any other company for the ignorant people that do not know about them. The EC might think they are trying to protect those ignorant people by offering a choice but in reality they are making things harder on the consumer that just wants to use their computer or product they purchased.
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Bozobub
Senior Member
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7. March 2013 @ 15:17 |
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M$ did NOT lose the initial case in the EU because they include their own browser with Windows. They lost because IE enjoys extra integration with the OS and other Windows programs, that other browsers are denied; it's not directly about the market share of the other browsers. Remember when M$ used to insist that it was impossible to remove IE from Windows (which turned out to be utter hogwash)?
The fine is not unjustified in this case. M$ is being heavily fined because they chose to ignore the initial court ruling, just as would be the case in any country. Does anyone here imagine a US court being amused by a corporation, especially a foreign corporation, ignoring a court ruling? If you do, you're just plain silly.
All of the arguments about the original ruling you guys have brought up in this thread actually came up during the court case. M$ lost, it's that simple, and they got caught trying to pretend they didn't. Sob, sob, weep, weep, suck it up, M$. Whether or not you agree with a specific court ruling, it's a court ruling, and trying to ignore it out of existence is going to ? quite obviously ? cost you. An individual would be in jail.
Edit ?> I should mention that I also have reservations about the initial ruling. That doesn't change the fact that M$ screwed the pooch on this one (and they actually admit it).
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. March 2013 @ 16:00
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Senior Member
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7. March 2013 @ 23:25 |
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Originally posted by Bozobub:
M$ did NOT lose the initial case in the EU because they include their own browser with Windows. They lost because IE enjoys extra integration with the OS and other Windows programs, that other browsers are denied...
You make some good points. E.g. IE integrates with MSE I think. And it's true, the ruling may be unfair in respect to other OSs but they ignored it and are effectively in contempt. That's reflected in the fine's amount which I'm certain MS will contest anyway even though they admit to being at fault.
Originally posted by dali:
Originally posted by bobiroc:
To me that is like punishing or restricting a certain race or ethic background of people simply because there are more of them but allowing the minority races or ethic background people extra freedoms. Of course that happens too
Agreed. Such thing is called "positive discrimination", although discrimination is never positive by definition, is it?
I sympathised with your other points but these remarks are fatuous.
Its a lot easier being righteous than right.
DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD
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LeeC22
Newbie
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8. March 2013 @ 09:46 |
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I think it's about time Microsoft said "stuff you EU, we're no longer going to sell our OS in your countries.".
I seriously cannot understand why they continue to bow to the pressure, of a collection of retarded EU officials, that couldn't organise the proverbial p*** up in a brewery. They should pull the OS from the EU completely, and simply sell the OS from the US, where the EU has absolutely no control.
Block the installation on all new PCs too. Let's see how popular the EU is, when people struggle to even get their PC up and running in the first place.
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Senior Member
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8. March 2013 @ 10:46 |
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Originally posted by LeeC22:
I think it's about time Microsoft said "stuff you EU, we're no longer going to sell our OS in your countries.".
I seriously cannot understand why they continue to bow to the pressure, of a collection of retarded EU officials, that couldn't organise the proverbial p*** up in a brewery. They should pull the OS from the EU completely, and simply sell the OS from the US, where the EU has absolutely no control.
Block the installation on all new PCs too. Let's see how popular the EU is, when people struggle to even get their PC up and running in the first place.
I don't think "going Galt" would impress the makers of the PCs here. There might be a few extra lawsuits to come out of that lol.
Its a lot easier being righteous than right.
DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD
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Bozobub
Senior Member
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8. March 2013 @ 13:19 |
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Originally posted by LeeC22:
I think it's about time Microsoft said "stuff you EU, we're no longer going to sell our OS in your countries.".
I seriously cannot understand why they continue to bow to the pressure, of a collection of retarded EU officials, that couldn't organise the proverbial p*** up in a brewery. They should pull the OS from the EU completely, and simply sell the OS from the US, where the EU has absolutely no control.
Block the installation on all new PCs too. Let's see how popular the EU is, when people struggle to even get their PC up and running in the first place.
Any M$ executive who permitted the *complete* loss of one of the largest, richest markets on Earth (that, unlike China, generally does not pirate Windows/Office/etc.) would be rent asunder by enraged stockholders, if the rest of M$ didn't nail 'em first. It would be a phenomenal blunder.
Additionally, such a move would be almost guaranteed to bring further sanctions vs. M$. You think the US gov't. is going to be happy with M$ starting a trade war..?
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polarys425
Newbie
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8. March 2013 @ 17:48 |
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Originally posted by LeeC22:
I think it's about time Microsoft said "stuff you EU, we're no longer going to sell our OS in your countries.".
I seriously cannot understand why they continue to bow to the pressure, of a collection of retarded EU officials, that couldn't organise the proverbial p*** up in a brewery. They should pull the OS from the EU completely, and simply sell the OS from the US, where the EU has absolutely no control.
Block the installation on all new PCs too. Let's see how popular the EU is, when people struggle to even get their PC up and running in the first place.
Actually, they should remove EVERY little added piece that isn't required for Windows to operate and sell it as Windows EU at the SAME PRICE and only allow that version to be sold in all countries covered by the EU. Remove the calculator, IE, games, extra fonts, screensavers, backgrounds, media center, media player, movie maker, photo gallery, dvd maker, etc. Then sell ALL these items as individual ADD ON'S at an additional cost!
Screw the EU.
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Senior Member
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8. March 2013 @ 21:21 |
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Like I said, that's really gonna impress the manufactures of the PC hardware... not!
Its a lot easier being righteous than right.
DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD
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19877891
Newbie
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10. March 2013 @ 10:23 |
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Originally posted by bobiroc:
Originally posted by Element6643:
So....Europe fines Sony less than $400,000 for millions of stolen personal data and credit card info, but fines Microsoft almost three quarters of a million because people can't take a few minutes to install their favorite browser after setup? What a world. -_-
Exactly my point. They are revengeful and spiteful. Don't get me wrong if Microsoft was forced to agree to this browser choice on install then they should comply by it but the fine is ridiculous.
So what your saying is if someone is forced to agree to something they should follow through with it. But if they fail to follow through just let it go?
You sir are an idiot if you think people can break a contract and get to walk away with no repercussions.
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Senior Member
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10. March 2013 @ 12:49 |
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Originally posted by 19877891:
Originally posted by bobiroc:
Originally posted by Element6643:
So....Europe fines Sony less than $400,000 for millions of stolen personal data and credit card info, but fines Microsoft almost three quarters of a million because people can't take a few minutes to install their favorite browser after setup? What a world. -_-
Exactly my point. They are revengeful and spiteful. Don't get me wrong if Microsoft was forced to agree to this browser choice on install then they should comply by it but the fine is ridiculous.
So what your saying is if someone is forced to agree to something they should follow through with it. But if they fail to follow through just let it go?
You sir are an idiot if you think people can break a contract and get to walk away with no repercussions.
But they will contest the amount of the fine as being unfair... you wait.
Its a lot easier being righteous than right.
DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD
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Bozobub
Senior Member
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10. March 2013 @ 12:58 |
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Actually, no, M$ has directly stated they are not contesting the fine in any way. Even in the article here, it states:
Quote:
Microsoft, for its part, did not make any excuses and will not appeal the ruling {my emphasis - Bozo}:
We take full responsibility for the technical error that caused this problem and have apologized for it. We provided the Commission with a complete and candid assessment of the situation, and we have taken steps to strengthen our software development and other processes to help avoid this mistake ? or anything similar ? in the future.
Other sources online (very easily googled) say pretty much the same thing.
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Senior Member
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10. March 2013 @ 13:06 |
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Originally posted by Bozobub:
Actually, no, M$ has directly stated they are not contesting the fine in any way. Even in the article here, it states:
Quote:
Microsoft, for its part, did not make any excuses and will not appeal the ruling {my emphasis - Bozo}:
We take full responsibility for the technical error that caused this problem and have apologized for it. We provided the Commission with a complete and candid assessment of the situation, and we have taken steps to strengthen our software development and other processes to help avoid this mistake ? or anything similar ? in the future.
Other sources online (very easily googled) say pretty much the same thing.
FFS!!! I did NOT say they were contesting the flipping fine just the flipping AMOUNT.
Please read more carefully. They do not state they will not contest it "in any way".
This is done ALL the time Bozobub, see the recent Apple vs Samsung cases :/
Its a lot easier being righteous than right.
DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD
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