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California may mandate 'Kill Switch' on smartphones, tablets from 2015
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The following comments relate to this news article:
article published on 7 February, 2014
California lawmakers will propose mandating that all smartphones and tablets sold in the state from next year come equipped with a 'Kill Switch' that can render them useless if stolen.
State Sen. Mark Leno and other lawmakers said they will introduce legislation proposing the requirement on all such mobile devices sold in the state, with the vocal support of Los Angeles City Mayor Eric ... [ read the full article ]
Please read the original article before posting your comments.
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GryphB
Member
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7. February 2014 @ 19:06 |
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And most likely the makers will be like, well California, we don't care about you and we will sell in states that don't have this requirement. Now you'll create a nice black market for those that have to look elsewhere to get a phone because they are no longer being sold in your state. Fine with me.
As far as it is concerned, the thieves are going to be one step ahead of the law and protections.
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bbbob
Junior Member
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7. February 2014 @ 19:17 |
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Dead phones are still good for parts.
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jjmehm
Newbie
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8. February 2014 @ 01:59 |
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that's exactly it, crooks are always one step ahead in the cat and mouse game. plus, can't they just reflash the device and sell it again? Sure, it will have a bad ESN, but they're getting around that now anyway. All this is, is lawmakers wanting to make it look like they care about an issue that's been getting a lot of attention lately.
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Bozobub
Senior Member
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8. February 2014 @ 03:37 |
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Waitafreakinminnit. That exact same logic can be used for door locks on houses or cars, because they can be bypassed by determined and/or skilled criminals. It does NOT wash!
Any practical measure that makes the criminals' life more difficult, expensive, or otherwise a pain in the ass is a good thing, full stop. Especially considering that this is a very easy, inexpensive change to make, that many people have been requesting for years. It's definitely not "lawmakers wanting to make it look like they care", it's "lawmakers doing what people have been prodding them to do for ages".
This change won't stop the pros, certainly. That's always been the case for every security measure ever invented throughout history. This will, however, put a definite crimp in the casual/unskilled thief's plans. And all apocryphal tales aside, most thieves aren't particularly skilled, especially in fencing off their loot; frankly, most people steal stuff they want for themselves.
By the way, supposedly you cannot "just reflash the phone", according to what I've read on the subject; it's a separate switch, outside of the OS. I'm sure there will be workarounds soon enough, as there always are eventually, but unless you feel that no one ever needs door locks, you should applaud this move.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. February 2014 @ 03:41
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Senior Member
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8. February 2014 @ 06:07 |
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i see an issue with it,if it permanently renders the phone useless even if the victim gets the phone back it can't be used???if its reversable theives will find ways to reverse it?
People could also accidently report the phone stolen.
i have locks on my doors as by the time they get past the fly screen lock and start on the front door itself i will be next to the door with a hammer, if i'm not home they could pretty much kick the door in, walk in take everything and be gone.
i know someone with a mazda with an ignition lock,basically no key no changing gears,1 day someone did try and steal it got as far as in the car screwdriver in the ignition started it and got sterio on but couldn't put it in gear.
custom built gaming pc from early 2010,ps2 with 15 games all original,ps3 500gbs with 5 games all original,yamaha amp and 5.1channel surround sound speakers,46inch sony lcd smart tv.
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Senior Member
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8. February 2014 @ 14:27 |
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Just wait until someone spams the 'kill' message to thousands of peoples phones for fun.
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Bozobub
Senior Member
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8. February 2014 @ 16:18 |
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The kill switch requires a device-specific cryptokey to either activate or deactivate it. Again, while it's very possible this could be abused, it's going to be a serious PITA to do so.
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Justoneguy
Member
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9. February 2014 @ 18:32 |
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Seems like cutting of your nose to spite your face. If it's stolen, and you don't get it back, you end up without. If you get back a useless brick, you end up without. Only the consumer loses.
It also sounds like a great way to cut off communication to millions of people by our government or another should the need arise. Seems to me they should be spending more time on the real problems, and worry less about device theft.
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Bozobub
Senior Member
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9. February 2014 @ 20:15 |
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Onc e you get the phone back, the carrier can then use the phone-specific cryptokey to reenable the device. Pay attention.
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Justoneguy
Member
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9. February 2014 @ 20:19 |
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Originally posted by Bozobub:
Onc e you get the phone back, the carrier can then use the phone-specific cryptokey to reenable the device. Pay attention.
Maybe you need to wake up and see there is more uses for this other than just keeping the petty criminals at bay.
But your probably one of the sheeple that think their government is just out to "help" them.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9. February 2014 @ 20:20
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Bozobub
Senior Member
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10. February 2014 @ 02:16 |
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Dude, you're a paranoid doof. The government can completely shut down and/or monitor cellphones at will NOW! The only thing that stops them from doing it blatantly in public is the law, for what that's worth. What makes you think the phone companies (you know, the ones already in the pocket of the NSA) won't do exactly as Uncle Sam demands, pretty much any time? Furthermore, it'd be far quicker and cheaper to just shut down cell towers (which require government approval to operate), than to individually disable phones.
The purpose of this "kill switch" is to make life somewhat more difficult for criminals, without drastically increasing costs, and save law enforcement some manpower, that simple. Any paranoid ideas you have otherwise, you're just going to have to accept can already be (and probably are) realized with current technology. Either stop using cell/smartphone technology altogether, or deal with this sad fact.
No, I don't particularly trust the government. But senseless distrust of government is just as silly and dangerous as blind trust.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 10. February 2014 @ 02:20
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Justoneguy
Member
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10. February 2014 @ 02:28 |
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Originally posted by Bozobub:
Dude, you're a paranoid doof. The government can completely shut down and/or monitor cellphones at will NOW! The only thing that stops them from doing it blatantly in public is the law, for what that's worth. What makes you think the phone companies (you know, the ones already in the pocket of the NSA) won't do exactly as Uncle Sam demands, pretty much any time? Furthermore, it'd be far quicker and cheaper to just shut down cell towers (which require government approval to operate), than to individually disable phones.
The purpose of this "kill switch" is to make life somewhat more difficult for criminals, without drastically increasing costs, and save law enforcement some manpower, that simple. Any paranoid ideas you have otherwise, you're just going to have to accept can already be (and probably are) realized with current technology. Either stop using cell/smartphone technology altogether, or deal with this sad fact.
No, I don't particularly trust the government. But senseless distrust of government is just as silly and dangerous as blind trust.
Well your obviously the authority on all of this, sorry for bothering. Wake up.
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Bozobub
Senior Member
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10. February 2014 @ 03:16 |
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Look, I gave a real argument, how about you try returning the favor? Snarky silliness is not debate, sorry.
How about you start by telling us exactly why the government would bother with such an approach, when they have the power to do so anyway?
"Wake up", indeed. I know what our government can already do, which is scary enough.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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10. February 2014 @ 15:45 |
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Gotta wonder about carrier and device restrictions being tied into this. Are they going to set it up so it stops working with a hacked rom...so hacking roms effectively becomes illegal in california? Will carriers be allowed to use a "call in" approach to the kill switch, so that hacked phones stop working a few days after the mod?
Bozobub...I do have a scenario for you, one that wouldn't be possible just by shutting down towers. Let's imagine we had a president that took extreme measures against protesters and reporters like throwing them in prison for trumped up charges or having the IRS go after them. I'll just make up an imaginary name and call him "Mr. O". Let's say "Mr. O" wants to shut down just certain phones, and maybe get the owners hassled by the police when their phones show up as stolen...what is to stop him?
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Bozobub
Senior Member
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10. February 2014 @ 16:09 |
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Again, a President could do that now; just lean on whatever provider to suspend service, mission accomplished, no phone for you. And all a President needs to do to get you "hassled by police" is put you on the Terrorist Watch List (AKA the "No Fly" list). In other words, I don't believe your scenario is any more useful than Justoneguy's.
Regarding the usage of alternate ROMs, no, it shouldn't be an issue, at least as presented. Nor would you be able to install an alternate ROM with the switch active (the phone is a brick, otherwise), and an alternate ROM wouldn't negate the switch, either (it's not within control of the phone's main OS).
Until/unless someone manages to hack the cyptokey system involved - not a given at all - I really don't see this as being the issue you guys are making of it. The government doesn't need it to shut down your phone/net access at all, and abusing the system will NOT be easy.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 10. February 2014 @ 16:10
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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10. February 2014 @ 20:20 |
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Well, I still don't have too much faith in anything the government does...especially when it doesn't make sense for the stated goal.
If they wanted to fight phone theft they would lock SIM cards to serial numbers...use the phone with the old SIM card and E911 tracks you down. Try activating a new SIM card and get busted. This is just a minor inconvenience to thieves and a reassurance to people buying used phones that they are not buying stolen property.
While scientifically speaking anything is possible, I have serious doubts that it will be secure.
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Bozobub
Senior Member
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10. February 2014 @ 21:19 |
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So, what do you suggest for CDMA phones, which have no SIM..? lol
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Senior Member
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10. February 2014 @ 23:23 |
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Originally posted by Justoneguy:
Originally posted by Bozobub:
Dude, you're a paranoid doof. The government can completely shut down and/or monitor cellphones at will NOW! The only thing that stops them from doing it blatantly in public is the law, for what that's worth. What makes you think the phone companies (you know, the ones already in the pocket of the NSA) won't do exactly as Uncle Sam demands, pretty much any time? Furthermore, it'd be far quicker and cheaper to just shut down cell towers (which require government approval to operate), than to individually disable phones.
The purpose of this "kill switch" is to make life somewhat more difficult for criminals, without drastically increasing costs, and save law enforcement some manpower, that simple. Any paranoid ideas you have otherwise, you're just going to have to accept can already be (and probably are) realized with current technology. Either stop using cell/smartphone technology altogether, or deal with this sad fact.
No, I don't particularly trust the government. But senseless distrust of government is just as silly and dangerous as blind trust.
Well your obviously the authority on all of this, sorry for bothering. Wake up.
Another dittohead fool railing against democratically elected governments... until they need them. LOL.
But since you like sarcasm... yeah sure, whatever, history has shown us private interests are SO much more trustworthy than an imperfect but democratically elected gov. :D
Its a lot easier being righteous than right.
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Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD
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Bozobub
Senior Member
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11. February 2014 @ 00:28 |
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The real deal is that police departments in several large cities are seeing a vast number of smart-device-related theft and robberies. That's a HUGE amount of police manpower, which could otherwise be used on rape, murder, felonies in general, and for that matter, other types of property crime. This measure should at put at least a dent in those numbers.
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Senior Member
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11. February 2014 @ 07:25 |
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Indeed
Its a lot easier being righteous than right.
DSE VZ300-
Zilog Z80 CPU, 32KB RAM (16K+16K cartridge), video processor 6847, 2KB video RAM, 16 colours (text mode), 5.25" FDD
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senator29
Junior Member
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14. February 2014 @ 11:34 |
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If they want a kill switch they can access then I suggest everyone buy your phones off the internet from your carrier.
If that is not the case then California proves once again they are man'd by 2 year olds.
My past 4 cell phones have had "kill switches" by way of free to use apps stretching back 5 years. Android now includes such a mechanism. You can encrypt or delete data. One app will even secretly take pictures of those trying to unlock the phone and send over the net.
The problem is corporate greed. Wages have frozen or fallen but cost of living and price of goods have gone up. My phone cost me 680 dollars. According to a few websites less than 200 to manufacture.
Lobbyists are probably behind this lining the state officials pockets. I don't disagree robbery cases are over loading our law enforcement but it is a bandaid once again on a huge open wound. Raising the level of living for those who choose to rob is part of the real cause. The real problem is deep rooted and will not be easy or fast to fix.
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Bozobub
Senior Member
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14. February 2014 @ 15:24 |
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You are confused, senator29. The type of "kill switch" referenced in the article, UNLIKE the software methods you are referring to, cannot be bypassed anywhere near as easily. Currently, no matter what software you have on your device, a malefactor can relatively easily reflash either a stock or modded ROM and change the IMEI with a specialized bit of hardware. That's not so easy with a switch that's OUTSIDE the ROM's control.
Nor is a "band-aid" uncalled-for. As I mentioned above, simply because door locks won't stop a sufficiently determined and/or skilled intruder, does NOT mean you shouldn't use them, or that they don't have an impact on crime. It should be rather cost-effective, considering how little it will cost to implement.
It's also not "big government" that's behind this move. In fact, this has been a request by many civilian AND law enforcement groups for a good number of years.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 14. February 2014 @ 15:24
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rbi149
Newbie
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14. February 2014 @ 16:47 |
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Originally posted by Justoneguy:
Originally posted by Bozobub:
Onc e you get the phone back, the carrier can then use the phone-specific cryptokey to reenable the device. Pay attention.
Maybe you need to wake up and see there is more uses for this other than just keeping the petty criminals at bay.
But your probably one of the sheeple that think their government is just out to "help" them.
"you're", MENSA.
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Bozobub
Senior Member
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14. February 2014 @ 16:55 |
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Originally posted by rbi149:
Originally posted by Justoneguy:
Originally posted by Bozobub:
Onc e you get the phone back, the carrier can then use the phone-specific cryptokey to reenable the device. Pay attention.
Maybe you need to wake up and see there is more uses for this other than just keeping the petty criminals at bay.
But your probably one of the sheeple that think their government is just out to "help" them.
"you're", MENSA.
Ehh... He got his point across, silly as it was. Pointing out grammar/spelling flubs really should only be done when the post is literally incomprehensible (or at least difficult to read) OR if the poster was busy insulting others' intelligence. While I agree you could read his post as doing so, I took it as a more general insult.
I find it's generally far more effective, as well as more amusing, to simply dismantle their argument and let it collapse around their ears =) .
Remember, no matter how smart you are, anyone can commit a typo.
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senator29
Junior Member
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14. February 2014 @ 17:27 |
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Bozobub it is a bandaid to deter theft. The point I make is we have a lot of unemployed, uneducated who cant get decent paying jobs. If you read my whole statement you would understand.
A kill switch outside the ROM can be gotten around. Hardware mechanisms such as that have been bypassed before. One who can flash a rom and replace the IMEI number can bypass the kill switch. The first step to any working method is wireless connectivity to the device. Steal and immediately remove that you can do whatever to the virgin device. Stopping the theft of cell phones will create a new ticket item to steal. Which comes back to my point of not solving the root cause.
And big government can stop being used in this thread. It is California right now. Eventually other states will though. And you have to realize the Feds will be able to use it when they want. We are losing our freedom and rights daily for the most ridiculous reasons.
It isn't a matter of who wants it. It is a matter of solving the effect and never the cause yet again.
I am very far from confused.
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