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Newbies pls see this - cheapy media is BAD.....
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Moderator
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21. May 2005 @ 08:47 |
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i started this thread to illustrate how many problems cheapy media can cause and how much better results you will get with very good quality media (for not much cost difference at all).
First off - so-called Taiyo Yuden media by Bulkpaq - these are NOT Taiyo Yuden and are fake. The disc is 8x, burnt at 4x -
Second - reputable 8x media burnt at 4x -
Third - reputable 8x media burnt at 8x -
snippet from http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=80545 (Interpreting PI/PO error scans) -
Quote:
Use this as a guideline for good discs:
PI (Parity Inner): No larger areas on the disc should exceed 280 PI errors, do not worry too much about high single spikes that exceeds 280.
PO (Parity Outer) (ie bottom graph): No larger areas on the disc should exceed 32 PO (actually PI uncorrectable) errors, do not worry too much about high single spikes that exceeds 32
I do not profess to be an expert in the ins and out of these results, suffice it to say that questionable cheapy media is just not worth the supposed small cost saving over quality brand-name media.
All three of the above discs were burnt 100% without error, play perfectly (at the moment, even the Bulkpaq), however already i am unable to copy the Bulkpaq disc due to it being crap quality. Even Brute Force option in DVD Decrypter won't do it, cleaning the disc won't work, copy/paste will not work, even using different DVD drives doesn't work.
More info can be found here - http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=80545
As i say i'm no expert in this stuff (yet), however a quick comparison of the graphs/graph ranges on the page says it all.
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 16. June 2005 @ 01:36
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AfterDawn Addict
6 product reviews
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21. May 2005 @ 09:30 |
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Man that first scan is UGLY. I am really suprised it will play at all.
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AfterDawn Addict
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21. May 2005 @ 09:32 |
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Good Comparison Creaky, here is another of excellent and bad, or in this case real Taiyo Yuden 8x TYG02 and Memorex PRODISCG02
TY
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Moderator
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21. May 2005 @ 09:32 |
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Hi, this is my first post (as in the first one i've started, not the firstpost i've made). Waddya think ?
(that disc is Kill Bill 1, thankfully it played back fine, not so long back)
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 15. May 2010 @ 07:10
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21. May 2005 @ 09:36 |
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@arniebear - looks like Plex utils are getting better, i haven't used their kit since the utterly brilliant (SCSI) PX-32TSi's (used a few of them for many years). If ever i use any of their burners i shall try out the utils..
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
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AfterDawn Addict
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21. May 2005 @ 09:38 |
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Yeah, just got this Plexi and I have just got to play, man am I in love with this drive.
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Moderator
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21. May 2005 @ 09:41 |
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Just posted a link to this post over on the CD Freaks site too, as the BulkPaq scan was like the Loch Ness monster of scans (well it is to me anyhow!)
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
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DogBomb
Senior Member
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22. May 2005 @ 15:14 |
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arniebear, I've never used that test with PlexTools before. I've got to try it. I usually use the PI/PO test which gives more detailed info as to the exact errors and where they are. How fast is that test that you used? It looks like a summary, but I guess it might be good to run because I like to read that "Excellent" burn message. ;) BTW, check out this Plextor forum: http://club.cdfreaks.com/forumdisplay.php?f=43
About those fake TYs result,...eeeeeek! The worst PI figures I get are with Philips and Memorex DVD+Rs - and the PIs were 110 (with Philips CMC Mag), which is still acceptable. That's why I don't even buy TYs. If you get fakes, they're worse than Princos! Verbatims and Ridatas with nice, big logos on them for me.
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AfterDawn Addict
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22. May 2005 @ 15:19 |
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It was pretty fast, maybe a couple minutes, it is a faster way to verify, that is why I used it. I too liked the fact that it tells the disk quality. I expected errors being that it was a Memorex, but thought it would come out better because it was not a CMC Mag, now I got to redo Casablanca. Thanx for the link will check it out.
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AfterDawn Addict
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22. May 2005 @ 21:39 |
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i am so close to pulling the trigger and buying me a new plextor drive after seeing all these great features and tools that can be used in conjunction with it...wow, $130 is kind of steep though, i can buy 2 of my necs or pioneers with this kind of money~
but, i guess what is touted around as being THE best burner will command such a price tag~ should i buy it or not? all 4 of the burners i'm using now are fine, but, i need the extra "nudge" to pick up a Plextor to play with like all you guys are... :P
i've read nothing but GREAT reviews about the 716A is it? hmm....
Recommended Media:
Taiyo Yuden 4x dvd-r TYGO1/ 8x dvd-r TYGO2/ 8x dvd+r YUDEN000T02/ 16x dvd+r YUDEN000T03
Verbatim 8x dvd+r MCC003
Verbatim dvd+r DL (MKM001)= flawless no compression backups
"Do Yourself A Favor, Use The Good Stuff
TY & Verbs 4 Life~ :)" ~docTY~
"Its better to be quiet and appear stupid, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
I am always prepared to recognize that there can be two points of view - mine and one that is probably wrong - John Gorton
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. May 2005 @ 03:31 |
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Hehehe, nudge,nudge,nudge.
I hesitated on spending the money, I already have four drives, but when I got in BestBuy it called to me, and I answered. It really is a super drive, well worth the money.
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Senior Member
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23. May 2005 @ 05:53 |
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Got a quick question. I have been using princo recently and now I'm reading they suck. Dang it I haven't had 1 bad burn with them but maybe since I'm using a NU-Tech dvd+/- burner. Should I back these up as soon as I get some more reputable media? Also is pengo brand media any good? Ran them through dvdinfopro and results were not bad. Thanks for any comments or suggestions.
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Moderator
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23. May 2005 @ 05:55 |
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@matt72 - Nu-tech burner - hmmm, that rings a bell. Was trying to help out someone with a similar drive last night, less me have a look...
yup - got it - http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/193674
Hope yours isn't the same drive....
....i may have led myself a sorry song and dance on that thread as it seems the DVDRW IDE 1008 - 1008IM otherwise known as BTC 1008 has a following of how shall we say, erm, not happy customers :)
As for the Pango brand - haven't heard of those ; something tells me they're not gonna be that good tho... just don't sound very brand name to me :)
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. May 2005 @ 06:03
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Senior Member
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23. May 2005 @ 06:16 |
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@ creaky
will have to check the specs on my drive but I am almost positive not the same dvd burner. I really got into backing up my originals when I found this forum while searching for a specific software (namely DVD Decrypter and dvdshrink). Ok now I have to find a link to media.fastclick I see alot of software that might be helpful but at work that site is filtered. As far as the pengo brand dvd-r I haven't been able to google up any negative comments so I assume they are relatively new to the blank dvd media market. By the way thanks to you and all the other members who assist us in becoming dvd backup 'literate'.
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Moderator
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23. May 2005 @ 06:24 |
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@matt72 - you may be right that the Pengo are new; i don't try out enough other brands as i can't afford to, but i try and keep my eyes and ears open nonetheless, as best as i can.
I'm just passing on stuff that i pickup along the way, some is my own knowledge, some is stuff i myself pick up along the way, a lot of it from around here from a lot of long-termers (and some not so long-termers too); there's one helluva lot of info in these forums.
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. May 2005 @ 06:27
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. May 2005 @ 09:19 |
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hi there
@ creaky excellant
welcome to the real world folks!
Nothing here to see, move along folks.
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Moderator
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23. May 2005 @ 09:30 |
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Rotary, i'm honoured you popped by ! lol
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
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DogBomb
Senior Member
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23. May 2005 @ 21:22 |
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matt72, I myself have never used Princo media, but I have seen bad test results over at CDFreaks, bad reviews in this forum and here: http://www.videohelp.com/dvdmedia.php?dvdmediasearch=&dvdmediadvd... . Just because they burned and are playable right after your burn means little. Remember that DVDs sit in a hot burner for hours. How will a cheap dye react to it? Before you start re-copying all your old DVDs, you should run a few tests on the oldest ones first. Tests like the PI/PO test. Or even a simpler test - try copying the entire VIDEO_TS directory on the DVD over to your hard drive. This will tell you if the DVD is still readable - byte for byte. Nero also has its own tests which check file readability.
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. May 2005 @ 22:18 |
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hi
yeah thought it was good, to let people know cheap discs are no go...
Nothing here to see, move along folks.
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Moderator
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23. May 2005 @ 22:26 |
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@DogBomb, cheers, you reminded me of something i missed out of this post -
i started out in the DVD game using Bulkpaq 8x disks. I burnt a fair few at 8x as i had a brand new burner that was apparently capable, then i started having skipping/freezing films. At this point i should mention i had virtually no discs that Nero error'd out on during the burn. (if a disc error'd it went straight in the wood burner). Anyway, i then started researching, the old firmware route, slowed it down to 4x. Still had freezing; bought new go-faster pc etc, still going at 4x on the Bulkpaq's. Stupidly i didn't suspect them as a) i had loads of tubs to use up and b) they had media code TYG02 which i foolishly thought made them good. Finally the penny dropped and i switched media a few times. Tried few other things as well like different PCs, replaced burner under warranty with the Sony in my sig below etc etc.. Anyway i digress, many 100s of Verbatim's later i'm still doing 4x out of paranoia and because i have many 100s of potentially crap films on those bulkpaq's that i probably won't watch for a v long time. ARGH..
Anyway i think i touched on it but the burns all completed 100%, no matter what media used in my little tale.. So.. (in my case) i sometimes do a crc check on the odd disc for a laugh if it skips on playback, and no prizes for guessing, errors are seen on the crc scan (still talking about crappy media at this point). So frustratingly all my burns have burnt 100% as far as Nero was concerned but the crappy media sometimes in fact lets me down.
This reply is long winded and not coming out right so i'll edit it later, but.....
what i'm trying to say (in my humble experience) is that burning of movies with 100% completion status is NOT sufficient to trust the movie will playback correctly on the dozen or so players that i have access to. Dropping the speed to 4x, but more importantly by using decent media (for me) has 100% success rate. ie burning many 100s of discs successfully is NOT sufficient to prove no coasters.
recent update -
i've now started gingerly burning at 8x on my trusty Verbatim's now that i've got an extra 512MB of RAM. Have crc-checked a few discs and checked the old PI/PIF errors via KProbe which someone recommended recently. Good results so far, and i was moved to start my own thread re crap media, a BulkPaq disc being the star actor with the most appalling media scan probably anyone has seen for a while.
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. May 2005 @ 22:38
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AfterDawn Addict
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23. May 2005 @ 22:41 |
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Quote:
i started out in the DVD game using Bulkpaq 8x disks. I burnt a fair few at 8x as i had a brand new burner that was apparently capable, then i started having skipping/freezing films.
i hear you dude i hear you, yup done exact same thing (trying to save a couple dollar)
Nothing here to see, move along folks.
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Senior Member
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24. May 2005 @ 05:30 |
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@DogBomb
I'm just starting out with decrypter & DVD Shrink so I think I should be able to back them up on verbatim. Sadly I am one of the folks who bought dvdxcopy platinum and was a happy camper using it until new css protection and lack of updates made copying uneasy. I then proceeded to look elsewhere for a dvd backup software and a search brought me to afterdawn. Hey I saw the princo was cheap in price so bought and only had 1 coaster so far. Now that I got dvd identifier and a few others dvd check programs i will run a few and test my princos. Proudly I ordered some TY02 and waiting till they get here. Owning close to 800 dvds (all store bought) and friends wanting to borrow movies backups are cheaper to replace if necessary.
@creaky
I know the feeling of burn complete but not worth the time using dvdcloner2. Unfortunately I paid for that before I found out only 40 mins are copied. Moviejack was okay with the girls gone wild series (only for ummm entertainment purposes of course) but had trouble with newer dvds. Now decrypter and shrink has me feeling like I need to work on a personal guide. Also I purchased slysoft AnyDVD and CloneDVD based on reviews in this forum. Now the question I pose is does different software act differently based on pc specs? Mine are as follows:
Averatec 5400, 30g hd, 785mb ram, slimtype dvd +- internal burner, amd 2800, winxp home. This is my travel pc so anytime I come across a dvd while out n about I pop it in and copy it. Oh and its a laptop.
Finally any suggestions on a good desktop pc...I'm looking to invest in a top of the line brand with mid thru highend specs.
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AfterDawn Addict
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24. May 2005 @ 05:38 |
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@matt72
Quote:
Sadly I am one of the folks who bought dvdxcopy platinum and was a happy camper using it until new css protection and lack of updates made copying uneasy. I then proceeded to look elsewhere for a dvd backup software and a search brought me to afterdawn.
You, me, and a whole lot of other people :-)
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Moderator
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24. May 2005 @ 05:49 |
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@matt72 -
I still use DVD Shrink primarily, and DVD Decrypter for the odd film/disc that won't play ball. I just haven't found the need to buy anydvd (yet) as DVD Decrypter (so far) can do them all (there are many others who recommend all sorts of stuff, i just like to keep it simple as best as i can as i'm a simple guy. You got a nice machine there (check my sig too). I don't follow PC trends half as much as i used to, but what i will say is the PC i have (not overly different from yours really) is lightning fast for any tasks i need to do.
I bought this setup with a view to wringing as much life out of it as possible (hang on i do that with all my PC's!). It cost me about £240 plus £40 for another 512MB of RAM. 'Fraid i don't have the money i used to, so don't follow PC technology as much as i'd like.
Plus i live afloat so haven't got room for all the PC kit i used to have so had to tone it down! - http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/creaky/P1010112.jpg
I haven't lurked in afterdawn's PC forums as yet as i spend a lot of time in the DVD section as it is. I'd never get anything else done!
Sorry that's not much help
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 24. May 2005 @ 05:59
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24. May 2005 @ 09:39 |
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Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
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