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Nintendo wants the US to solve international video game piracy problems
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The following comments relate to this news article:
article published on 14 February, 2008
It seems that Nintendo of America has asked the U.S. Trade Representative to "encourage" international governments to take a harsher stance against piracy of Nintendo video games and systems around the world.
Filing a "Special 301" process with the Trade Representative means the group will "solicit input from the public to underscore specific areas of concern."
Although China remains ... [ read the full article ]
Please read the original article before posting your comments.
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varnull
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15. February 2008 @ 20:31 |
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Now we are getting to the core of the subject..
An Italian Judge threw out a case against a downloader because "No evidence could be afforded that any crime had been committed. The downloader had not sought to make any monetary profit from his action," the legal definition of piracy.. and stated clearly that given the alternative of paying some inflated price for the content would not have done so. Allegations that he had shared the content freely with other people "unknown" were also dismissed as unfounded as again loss could not be defined.
The case was thrown out as no actual criminal behaviour could be found and no loss to the owner of the material proven.
It's like.. I sit on the street outside your house and watch your cable tv through the window..with or without your consent.. am I stealing from you? Can you prove you have lost anything?
The days of the big media companies and their paid lacky governments are over, they know it and are now going to attempt to use threats and tyranny to attempt to cling on to what remains of their failed monopoly They have lost, and they know it. It is up to us to remain set in our ways, and demand they either change their business models or go the way of every other business that has failed to modernise.
comments on this? http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/12740.cfm
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 15. February 2008 @ 20:33
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Senior Member
4 product reviews
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15. February 2008 @ 21:36 |
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kyo28 - I agree with you to an extent i always try a game before i buy it, however demo's are crippleware and can hurt sells more than Software Pirates. i will always buy the original if it is worth the money if it is not there is a thing called (Delete)when i as a individuale decide that its not worth my money.
varnull- Quote:
The unprecedented momentum enjoyed by Nintendo DS and Wii makes Nintendo an attractive target for counterfeiters," said Jodi Daugherty, Nintendo of America's senior director of anti-piracy.
it is this hag that Proably dosent know her head from her ass about what really is going on in digital age,and to pin this on nintendo
isn't cool, but we all know its suits from Corperate America that pin this crap on other people, if you want a theory here's one
if America Keeps bullying other Country's The only way to obtain a New pruduct from those countrys is to pirate it..there is nothing stoping other nations from cuting of are Suply of goods. if they did that we could weaken and give other nations a clear shot to take over america.
America Takes From other nations and gives nothing in return..
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don010
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17. February 2008 @ 16:52 |
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nintendo acts like people get the pirated games and open a major corparation and have a huge sign up that says free F***ing nintendo games
nowadays you cant stop pirating by inforcing a law you need to make a pirate proof console
so far there's no pirating going on, on the ps3 but some have started on the 360 and the wii
and so what if people are pirating your games you cant stop them anymore cause like the psp people take the game files on the umd and put it on storage websites like megaupload and rapidshare
you cant stop that even worse than that people can torrent the stuff lol
so if your systems games are getting pirated that means you didn't put alot of effort into making your system and games homebrew and pirate proof
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obis
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19. February 2008 @ 11:26 |
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I really agree with Varnull's thoughts. But I just want to add some of my experiencea. Let me start with, I have been a Nintendo fan from the time they came out with the gameboy. I have bought many gameboys because of backwards compatability. I have traveled extensively and ever since nintendo has been around there have been game pirates. When I lived in korea maybe around 1988 or 89 and I saw an imitation nintendo that would play nintendo games, sega games and conterfit games (they sold cartridges that had 4 - 8 game on card). I remember seeing games like super mario brothers 1,2 and 3, tetris and megaman all on one card, some cards had nintendo and sega games together on 1 card. I would never buy something like this not because I think its evil or immoral, I would never buy this because it was made of crap. When you opened the cover of the console you could see it was only held together by an aluminum frame and a few screws. My point is when something is good there is always going to be imitators and pirates. Everyone knows that now its just easier with the internet. Its not Nintendos fault that people pirate there games, it just goes with the territory. Piracy really created the market for this ipod. I think nintendo has not behaved like companies such as the MPAA, the RIAA and Microsuck yet and that is somewhat respectable, when other companies find their preciouse intellectual properties being used in ways that they didnt intend, they started suing everyone until there are too many people doing it to control. I still have my original gameboy and it still works, that means it has worked for 20 years. I have bought pc's that dont even last 3 years for over 10x the cost. As for operating systems I cant keep a virus off of an xp box for more than a couple of days after installation without serious antiviral software and a firewall, (thank you Linux developers for offering an alternative) there is something seriously wrong with an OS like that. I have multiple development cards for my handhelds but I might have considered purchasing a gamepark instead of a DS if I thought I would get sued for using an emulator to run game I have already purchased. But again I do agree that if I bought some cartridge from some vendor on the street, pre-loaded with 50 games, I would be doing a disservice to Nintendo and game developers everywhere. But having a R4DS or a supercard certainly doesnt make me a lowlife, I use colors to sketch idea's without wasting paper, I use a Nitrotracker , DSorganize and many other homebrew apps. I know most of you all have heard everything I am writing before but I just really dont want to see nintendo die and hypothetically have the ever unreliable, always broken xbox as the ruler of the gaming world. Nintendo has good quality products and they should stand behind them, overpriced they may be a bit. But piracy didnt kill the music industry like the music industry thought it would, it only changed it.
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goodswipe
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19. February 2008 @ 11:37 |
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I'll tell you what Nintendo needs to solve! They need to have an unlimited supply of Wii's at all times! I bought one a while back off CL because I couldn't find any in the stores here in my town. Well, I ended up needing the money so I had to part with my beloved Wii after only one month of owning the thing.
I refuse to pay 150 dollars more for this system on CL! Nintendo, where are the Wii's?
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ikari
Junior Member
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20. February 2008 @ 12:06 |
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Originally posted by varnull:
Now we are getting to the core of the subject..
An Italian Judge threw out a case against a downloader because "No evidence could be afforded that any crime had been committed. The downloader had not sought to make any monetary profit from his action," the legal definition of piracy.. and stated clearly that given the alternative of paying some inflated price for the content would not have done so. Allegations that he had shared the content freely with other people "unknown" were also dismissed as unfounded as again loss could not be defined.
The case was thrown out as no actual criminal behaviour could be found and no loss to the owner of the material proven.
It's like.. I sit on the street outside your house and watch your cable tv through the window..with or without your consent.. am I stealing from you? Can you prove you have lost anything?
The days of the big media companies and their paid lacky governments are over, they know it and are now going to attempt to use threats and tyranny to attempt to cling on to what remains of their failed monopoly They have lost, and they know it. It is up to us to remain set in our ways, and demand they either change their business models or go the way of every other business that has failed to modernise.
comments on this? http://www.afterdawn.com/news/archive/12740.cfm
Okay, so I guess my next question is, what is your modernized business model? Is it downloadable content, because companies have done it. While a lot of the music is still not available yet, it is still happening.
But what about games? If you could download games from the developer would you? Or would you still download them from bt sites?
I guess my big issue, is that some people want drm-less content for the sole purpose of stealing. Basically, making or making available copies for others to keep and not pay for. That is stealing, regardless of how rich and greedy the company that sells it is. There are a lot of grey areas in life. This one is black & white.
The price of a product or service does not justify if it is okay to steal it or not. It would seem a lot of people think that it is. If you find that the product or service is not fairly priced, then wait a while, most things go down in price the long the product or service is around. It is how the economy works (for the most part of course, there are exceptions). A good example is the price of game consoles. I didn't buy one until recently because I thought the price was too high for me. When it got into a more acceptable range I bought it.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. February 2008 @ 12:10
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Sazaziel
Junior Member
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20. February 2008 @ 21:02 |
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Okay Ikari.... "in your own opinion" it's stealing. Because your such an angel on this site that you've never downloaded anything on the net nor have you uploaded anything to share to share with anyone either. I usually don't take shots at anyone on this site and even though you are valid to have your own opinion...your comment was quite hypocritical. You're are another one of those people on this site that I question...What are you here for? If you've been on this site for years now then you would know what the majority of us here are all about. Even after the Finnish government got involved...we are still about the same thing.
It's actually a slap in the face because you're calling us out as criminals but, I guess in a way that only you feel you can sleep safely at night about.
So since you have this highly inflated number of $975 million dollars in your pocket...then why dont you go and pay nintendo back what they claim they loss and I'm sure they will quit whining...NOT!!!
Companies like nintendo lose out on profits every year no matter what and thats the truth about how economics works. Like wall street you win some and you lose some but if your not competitive enough then I guess you'll whine and start blaming and pointing fingers like a lot of people do. You probably don't even realize that even local game trader businesses hurt profits for companies because the used goods sell before the new and companies like nintendo can't double dip and monopolize off of that profit. Yet anything new that has been purchased by the game trader companies from the manufacturers like nintendo have already been paid for in a limited supply as well. And guess what... even they lose profits on a new sale compared to used but, they don't make claims that they loss $975 million and blame it on piracy. You might want to get your facts straight since you wear a halo around your head and all. The truth is that not everyone is downloading some game for free off of someone else. Not everyone worldwide is going to purchase the same game once it releases and no one is twisting their arm to make them purchase the product. I own a majority of every game system created since the 70's until present along with a walk-in closet full of proof, yet I don't play them all nor do I have every game ever produced by its publisher. Wii and DS sales have been hot even till this very day. Some people want one just to have one...but different strokes for different folks. Some things in life are just a risk or a gamble...even with new products. No one knows whose to blame but, they blame someone anyways. Even death is a part of life and people die but instead of it just being their time... someone always blames somebody or something and then makes a claim that it could've been prevented. It's no different than frivolous lawsuits. Nintendo can say they lost $975 million in profits due to crack heads and you'd probably believe it.
If you don't get my point which is pretty much valid based a whole lot on fact vs. statistics then I'm sure lots of other people here do. Yet as I stated you are entitle to your own opinion and I'll respect that.
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ikari
Junior Member
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21. February 2008 @ 12:10 |
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@Sazaziel
I figured someone was going to get a wee bit upset at what I was saying. Why are you so upset at an opposing view of the subject?
I also somehow doubt you respect my opinion based on your response. Don't go claiming you respect someone's opinion and then start personally attacking them. There is no reason to personally attack me for stating my opinion. If I insulted varnull, they can tell me and I will apologize. All I wanted was to hear their side and discuss it. Not attack them. If I insulted you by the previous comments, I am sorry. It was only to spark discussion and conversation.
I never once said I didn't do the things you and I mentioned. I never ever claimed or ever will claim that I am an angel or never did/do anything wrong. Is it hypocritical? Sure. Have you been hypocritical? Sure, we all have. Can't I offer another opinion that differs instead of shaking my head in agreement like everyone else?
I also don't know what my opinion has to do with my sleeping habits but I do sleep well, as I have a new comfy bed.
I wish I had a billion dollars laying around, don't you? Would I give it to nintendo?..no. Would I give it to any company losing money?..no.
Don't assume I am an idiot and believe everything that people tell me. Don't assume that I am a perfect little angel. Because I am not. As for calling everyone here criminals, I never once said that. If you want to assume it based on my comments go ahead. If I wanted to call everyone here criminals, I would have.
Do I sound upset? I am. Mostly because you took it upon yourself to personally attack me, even if you claim you rarely "take shots" on others. If you wouldn't have personally attacked me, I would have loved to continue with the conversation about the OP. However, now that I know you will personally attack me, I have no desire.
I thought everyone was here to share their opinions and information to make this site the great site it is today. Not to get attacked.
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varnull
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21. February 2008 @ 12:27 |
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Quote:
I guess my big issue, is that some people want drm-less content for the sole purpose of stealing. Basically, making or making available copies for others to keep and not pay for. That is stealing, regardless of how rich and greedy the company that sells it is. There are a lot of grey areas in life. This one is black & white.
NO.. we want drm-free content so that once we have paid for it we can use it privately for our own requirements and not have to pay again and again to.. for instance.. watch the film on our ipods.
Where is the "stealing" in that scenario.. the content has been paid for.??
Making content freely available for others still can't be defined as stealing.. otherwise this would be a criminal matter.. like shoplifting/burglary, instead of a civil matter.
I would advise taking your head out of your a$$ before you get called an MPAA/RIAA stooley..
Same question I put to somebody else..
If you feel so strongly that we don't have the right to use what we have paid for freely and without stupid drm restrictions why are you a member of a site that actively encourages "stealing"??
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 21. February 2008 @ 12:29
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ikari
Junior Member
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21. February 2008 @ 13:11 |
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Okay, gloves are off now.
What the heck is wrong with both of you? Why can't I or others state an opposing view without getting personally attacked?
I never said anything about personal use did I? You quoted me saying SOLE PURPOSE!!! Did I say anything about fair use like putting to a portable device? NO!
I just want to discuss the opposing view. Why can't I do this? I guess a better question is, why can't I do this without people getting sore about it? Why are you so upset that I stated an opposing opinin? Do I just need to nod my head like a sheep? Do I have to agree with everything you said/say?
You want to know why I am a part of this site? Because I read the tech new, and sometimes reply. I read the hardware guides. I used to read the ps2 game backup guides. YES, I back up all of the games (about 50 now) that I bought. So do I believe in fair use? YES!!! I am very much for it. Am I for someone that dls a game they don't own and burn it to disk to keep? NO. Am I calling everyone here thives and criminals. NO NO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
Sorry for having an opinion that is different than yours and want to disucss it with the knowledgable people on this site. All I was hoping was to get your take on the questions I ask you. That was all. I never wanted to insult or upset you, which I apparently did. As I told Sazaziel, if I did insult you for the previous posts, tell me and I will apologize.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 21. February 2008 @ 13:24
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Sazaziel
Junior Member
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21. February 2008 @ 15:45 |
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It's not wrong for you to have an opinion as I stated this at the beginning and the end of my post...that you are entitled to your own opinion. You don't have to listen to me nor do you have to agree with me. I'm not offended by your post either. What I'm trying to get you to understand is that when a lot of members on this site log on and read news about companies claiming millions of dollars in losses over piracy, or how they sued the average Joe or Jane for damages exceeding what the actual d/l was worth along with other news. You have to remember those same average people, the members of the Pirate Bay, along with many other people who feel oppressed as these billion dollar companies feel as we have wronged them in some way. We are these people. We are the people these billion dollar a year companies are placing the blame on. They fail to realize we as the general public are the same people who have brought them fame and success but, they label us as thieves and criminals. These companies act as if they deserve something for free and if we don't comply then they intimidate you and try to take something away from you by force. If we did anything to stop their flow of revenue then this will be the time that companies realize that people they have accused are really pissed off about labeling their devoted fans as criminals.
I only agree that someone who sells copies of ones work illegally for profit should be charged with piracy. But someone who shares the paid for item is not a pirate. These companies..especially Microsoft (for example)got so pissed about downloads of there Windows OS being available online to download that they start issuing licenses to individual owners as well as stating that you have to pay additional licensing fees to add the OS to another PC. I have 12 PC's in my home (5 laptops and 7 desktops). We use all of them. Windows...even Vista Ultimate retails for near $400 as did XP Pro. In your opinion after I spent damn near a car payment on an operating system... should I have been happy to bend over and accept the fact that Microsoft customer support told me that I can only add XP Pro to just one of my home PC's unless I purchase additional licensing! Even now as we speak I have 2 Xbox 360's and have to transfer my account to which ever one I play because I cant have my account for both of them. It's not that you offended me in any way but, if you were in my shoes.... just tell me how as the consumer that would make you feel.
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ikari
Junior Member
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21. February 2008 @ 17:42 |
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@Sazaziel
Your last response is a perfect example of the the kinds of conversations I like to have! I am sorry for the harsh comments on my last post to you.
Now back to your response. All excellent and valid points. And I agree, it is just silly for a company to say they lost almost a billion dollars to pricy. With some of the figures that are shown on AD articles I wonder if the company threw a few darts on a dart board full of dollar amounts. But there has to be some loss, that all I am saying.
In regards to stealing and priacy, after re-reading my posts, I think I will clarify what I meant.
1) Lets say you bought a music cd. You make a copy for yourself. I don't think that is stealing. I, like I am sure most of you, have had a CD that you really really like and it got all scratched up. It sucks. When I buy a CD, I make a backup copy. I have a box of CDs and on several occasions had to throw away my backup copy and make another because it was so badly scratched. As others have posted, if the record company would just replace them for free, I wouldn't make a backup copy. This also applies converting from cd to mp3 player.
2) Lets say you bought a music cd. You make a copy for yourself. Then you start making copies and handing them out to people free of charge for them to own. I think that is stealing. But let me explain. Are you the one stealing? No, you bought the music cd. Are you helping others steal? Yes, because they didn't buy the cd. If they would have bought it from you, you would be a priate.
3) Lets say you dl an album from bt that you don't own. Is that stealing? Well, if you keep it, yes. If you listened to it, hated it and deleted it, No.
In regards to MS, first, wow 12 pcs!!!!! I thought I had a lot with 6. Do my 6 PCs now have 6 unique legally purchased licences? Yes. Have they 100% of the time I have owned them? Errrr....ummmmm...
I know exactly what you mean, though. I would like to see one key for every X number of PCs. Not a 1 for 1. I don't think it is very fair for the consumer. Not one bit. But that is how it is setup right now. Hopefully, they will make it more consumer price friendly. Doubtful though.
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AfterDawn Addict
6 product reviews
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9. April 2008 @ 01:35 |
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I also agree pirated games should be stopped however the ability to play ntsc and pal games on the one machine should b there.
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