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.BIN / .CUE / .ISO Frequently asked questions. READ1ST
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ABUSE
Newbie
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10. December 2002 @ 02:38 |
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Hi,
I am having a bit if a crisis with .BIN / .ISO files and hoping you may be able to shed some light.
I created .CUE, .BIN & .SUB files from one of my game CDs with Blindwrite 4 and I was able to write this to another CD and everything seemed ok.
Later I decided to play with Deamon Tools 3.26 to see if I could play the game from the .BIN file however when I tried to mount the .CUE sheet Deamon Tools told me it wasn't valid. So I tried to read it with Nero 5.5 and again it said its courrpted. Yet Blindwrite can read it.
So I created an .ISO of another CD with Blindwrite and again all worked fine in Blindwrite but I couldn't read the ISO in Deamon Tools or Nero.
However ISO Buster can read both files.
Now to me this is strange as I thought .BIN and .ISO were standards?
It appears that the .BWT file that is saved with each image contains the need data to read it but the other programs aren't reading the .BWT file.
So what do I do now.
I have tried using CDRwin but having trouble creating an image with the demo so now trying CloneCD. Before I try FireBurner & Alchaol 120% I thought I'd seek advice.
Why aren't the .BIN & .ISO files created with Blind Write readable by other programs and what is the best CDR program that support Sub Channels, RAW DAO and will allow me to back up some of my protected CDs so I can play them from an image (like with .BIN & Daemon Tools)
Cheers.
ABUSE
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 10. December 2002 @ 02:43
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erico
Newbie
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10. December 2002 @ 06:11 |
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cd-rw.org, sorry, i guess i should try it first, i was thinking it would screw my computer up in some way tho, so as long as u say it wont, then i'll give it a shot
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erico
Newbie
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10. December 2002 @ 10:48 |
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umm ok, i got an image file created but as it turns out i dont want the game installed, so i dont need that fake cd/dvd rom. So i can't figure out how to remove them! Do i just unmount all the files in either CD rom, or is there more to deleting to spare CD roms? (i want them off my computer entirely)
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cd-rw.org
Senior Member
4 product reviews
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13. December 2002 @ 00:42 |
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Erico,
In the Alchol main screen you can:
-Unmount your images
-Set the number of virtual drives to 0
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toki
Newbie
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16. December 2002 @ 03:03 |
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i've read the thread so far and by the way it sounds i can copy an original cd to a cdr in mode 2 ... i tried and it didn't work in my psone? i used nero and told it to make a exact copy anything i'm missing?
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HCl
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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19. December 2002 @ 06:06 |
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Hi, I am a beginner to this image thing, and is still quite unsure of the entire concept even after reading the faq.
Would like to clarify by using an analogy: Is the .CUE is analogous the Master Boot Record of a HDD, and determines the overall format of the CD? Does it have to be burned to a specific physical sector of a CD?
As for the .BIN, it has been emphasized that it is an image and not a file. Is it correct to say that it is a binary 'file' which contains the exact binary arrangement (0 and 1 patterns) of the source CD? In this sense the .BIN is not a proper 'file' but more of a physical representation of the entire CD, is it right?
I am unsure if this is how it is like, so please correct me if I am wrong. And can any of the experts post a link or an article on the CD format, maybe it can help clear up the air a bit. Thanks.
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aldaco12
AfterDawn Addict
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19. December 2002 @ 07:48 |
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To toki:
even if you did all in perfect order (good Nero settings) you must know this:
1) your PSOne cannot play backups unless it has been modified;
2) some PSX games (very few of them) are protected and you cannot play backups unlesso you modify the image ('patching' it) before burning it; Search on the NET to know if your game is protected.
3) you must burn at low speed because PSOne CD-reader sucks.
BTW the Nero proper settings are these. Check if you did the same:
1. Start Nero
2. Insert the Playstation CD in your recorder
3. Choose the menu command File->CD Copy
4. Select the page Copy Options and uncheck the on the fly option. Select your CD recorder as input device and choose (for safety considerdations) 1x as read speed.
5. Open the page Read Options and select (if these options are available for your recorder): ?Read media catalog number and ISRC?, ?Continue copying?, ?Data Mode 1?: ?Force Raw reading? ?Write uncorrected?, ?Data Mode 2?: ?Force Raw reading? ?Write uncorrected?, ?Read audio with subchannel?, ?Ignore read errors? and uncheck ?Jitter correction?.
6. Open the Image page and choose a harddisk drive with at least 700MB of free disk space.
7. Select the page Burn and choose (for safety considerations) 1x as write speed.
8. Click the Burn button
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aldaco12
AfterDawn Addict
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19. December 2002 @ 07:53 |
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aldaco12
AfterDawn Addict
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19. December 2002 @ 08:04 |
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To HCl_:
about image formats - you might also want to read this:
http://www.macdisk.com/faqcden.php3#BM1
And... you're 'almost right' abut physical representation of CD. But the difference does not lie in the different image formats (ISO/BIN/IMG/NRG... ) but in 'RAW' or 'cooked' images.
'RAW' images are a physical representation of the CD-ROM because they copy EVERYTHING is on the CD (that is: the USER DATA but also the header, the Error Correction Data and so on). For this reason ther are bigger and need 2352 btes/sector.
The 'cooked' images, instead, copy only the USER DATA (2048 bytes for PC, 2336 for PSX/VCD, 2352 for AUDIO).
BUT YOU MUST KNOW THIS: that when you burn an image, (unless your CD-burner can accept the option 'write RAW data', and very few of them can), the burning process WILL RECALCULATE THE ERROR CORRECTION CODES (CRC) so the copy will not be an EXACT COPY (that is byte by byte) of the original CD. This because, as I posted above, transfer random error occur during burning and the CRC need to change in order to correct them so the data on the copied CD are complete.
I hope I did not confuse anyone ... these are complex things and I'm not a teacher...
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. December 2002 @ 08:21
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biznap
Newbie
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19. December 2002 @ 09:22 |
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couple of questions
1. What does FLT mean? I see it a lot in file names.
2. If I download something, is there a way I can tell its original format? If there is no .cue file and it has a random extension (.exe) how can I tell what parameters to use when burning the image?
The reason I ask is because I downloaded a file
GAME-FLT.CD1.EXE . I created a .cue file for it:
FILE "GAME-FLT.CD1.EXE" BINARY
TRACK 01 MODE1/2352
INDEX 01 00:00:00
-Then I ran BlindWrite to write it to CD. However, it fails when I actually try to read the cd.
Did I do something wrong?
thanks, this forum is great and I appreciate your help.
biznap
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. December 2002 @ 11:56
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radeon79
Newbie
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19. December 2002 @ 10:20 |
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Hi. I have a Karaoke program which produces .bin files so you can create your own CD-G's. Still, each .bin is a single song. Is there anyway I could create a single CD's with many of this .bin files?
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VCDjunkie
Moderator
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19. December 2002 @ 15:10 |
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biznap, try running the .exe file to see if it is a self extracting zip file, or some sort of install package using winrar or something.. anyhow, if you created the .cue file and still didn't work, then chances are its in another format, perhaps .iso ?? anyhow, you should be able to play around with it using winiso or some other program that reads image files to see if it is valid.
radeon, bin files that are related to cd images are the actual image of a COMPLETE cd, and burning an image of a cd to a cd gives you a single complete cd, no matter how many bin files you have, burning them all to cd will not produce multiple cd's on a single cd, it does not work that way..
It is very possible that your program produces a different format of a .bin file.. .cue/.bin files images are not the only .bin files around.. anyhow, I don't want to go too far over your head here so please find out from your software provider what the usage of your .bin files are and whether or not putting more than one on a cd will work for that program to read it.
"I'll show you just how deep the rabbit hole really goes.." -Morpheus
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biznap
Newbie
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19. December 2002 @ 15:38 |
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thanks, but I already tried all of those things. It looks like I downloaded a 600 MB collection of useless information.
Does anyone know what FLT stands for?
Is it possible that its a playstation cd and my pc can't read it? Does anyone have any other suggestions? I've tried to open it with WinISO and CDMage and they can't open it.
thanks again.
biznap
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. December 2002 @ 15:56
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VCDjunkie
Moderator
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19. December 2002 @ 15:58 |
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biznap, you are in luck because I apparantly have no life.. heh.
Send me a PM with the name of the file and I will download it to find out for you.
"I'll show you just how deep the rabbit hole really goes.." -Morpheus
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cd-rw.org
Senior Member
4 product reviews
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19. December 2002 @ 21:17 |
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Aldaco,
Are you sure that Nero can handle the PSX LibCrypt - the protection mostly used on a PSX. I wouldn't use Nero for PSX disc reading, but Alcohol, CloneCD, or BlindWrite...DiscJuggler should do too.
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aldaco12
AfterDawn Addict
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19. December 2002 @ 23:07 |
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I do not know. I think that Nero sucks, but Toki was using Nero and I wanted to answer him.
My brother usually makes his backups with Nero and he had little problems with the protecton scheme (except with games heavily protected as Breath Of Fire IV, Saga Frontier 2 and so on).
About other software: I noticed that CloneCD images (.img extension) files are compatible with CDRWin images. I mean, if you burn a CUE/IMG set with CDRwin it works. So I assume that the .IMG part coincides byte-by-byte with the .BIN file created by CDRWin and that (maybe) the protection scheme information is contained in the subchannel data (.sub) file cerated by CloneCD.
Do you think this could be a correct guess?
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aldaco12
AfterDawn Addict
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19. December 2002 @ 23:13 |
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Biznap, * ALWAYS * peek inside an image file before buring it. Use ISOBUSTER and check it. Do not waste CDs.
Also, as I posted above, there is a very simple way to know if a file is an 'image':
***** DIVIDE THE FILE SIZE BY 2352 ****
If you obtain an integer number (that is, a number without decimal point), such as 294300 for instance, you then know that the file is an image of a CD-ROM whose size was 294300 sectors (read the posts above and the links I posted to know what sectors are). If not, the file might be a corrupted image (and here it comes ISOBuster) or something else.
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rodius
Newbie
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20. December 2002 @ 00:40 |
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Hello
Hmm afetr reading all the posts here (I mean it took me like half an hour) I 've noticed that I have two kind of .cue files.
I download from easynews a lot (news server) so this .cue is from a file I downlaoded there:
FILE "dlm-rsn1.bin" BINARY
TRACK 01 MODE1/2352
INDEX 01 00:00:00
since this is a 2 CD program I downloaded the second CD, which was in iso format. Just to give it atry at what you guys have been saying I converted this file to bin and to my surprise it coverted altogether with a .cue file (which it didnt had, I guess maybe cuz it was an iso not a bin, anyway.....) the .cue file for that is:
FILE "D:\GENERAL (sin clasificar)\Reason cd2\cd2\rsn2.bin" BINARY
TRACK 01 MODE1/2352
INDEX 01 00:00:00
Now, the 2 images are almost in the same path (thats in the D drive). Why does one contains the whole path and the other doesnt, and still it burned ok (the second one, I havent trued the first one).
Thanks for your answers
--> awesome job you guys do here; is there anyway to donate without paypal (cuz paypal is not available in my country, grrrrrrrr)
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toki
Newbie
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20. December 2002 @ 03:04 |
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if i use a black cdr what is the difference between a real playstation game and a backup? is there some thing exta burnt into the cd?
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aldaco12
AfterDawn Addict
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20. December 2002 @ 04:16 |
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I'm answering to both Rodius and Toki.
1) To Rodius:
the ISO format includes both information that are found on CUE and BIN files (that is: ISO = CUE+BIN). I assume that the ISO you converted was written:
FILE "D:\GENERAL (sin clasificar)\Reason cd2\cd2\rsn2.bin" BINARY
....
because the utility program you used to convert ISO into BIN/CUE knows in which directory you put the files into.
The first .cue is more 'standard', I mean, if you do not include the full Path on the FILE flag, then the CUE
FILE "dlm-rsn1.bin" BINARY
...
will work if and only if the CUE and the BIN file dlm-rsn1.bin are in the same directory. I assume you have put all files toghether so even the first one will work.
2) To TOKI:
Original PSX CD have bad blocks burned into them. Bad blocks are sectors that cannot be either read or written (except with CD 'printers' used by Sony manufacturers). A burned backup has replaced (if backup utilities are properly configurated) the bad sectors with zeros. For this reason your PSX Console must be modified in order to play backups.
And there is no much difference between black, silver, blue or gold CDs. I have heard that PSX CD-reader reads best black and blue CDs and worst gold CDs. But there is no difference in data, only in the capability of the laser to read the info from the CD layer.
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VCDjunkie
Moderator
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20. December 2002 @ 10:28 |
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biznap-
The best I can figure is that the file you downloaded is a Playstation 2 game by the manufacturer Vivendi.
http://www.vugames.com/vug/product.do?gamePlatformId=145
I think that means that you may have a valid image, however I believe you won't be able to do shit with it unless you have a modded PS2 game console, however since I am not an expert in this field I would advise you to check out the forums dedicated to this.
best of luck!
"I'll show you just how deep the rabbit hole really goes.." -Morpheus
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erico
Newbie
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21. December 2002 @ 04:59 |
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aldaco, when u said divide the file size by 2352, did u mean the file size in Kilobytes? Or was it the file size in sectors. Cause i tries to dive all my bin files that i have and they all gave me non-integer number, ranging from about 250-350. So i figured something went wrong. If u meant divide the file size IN SECTORS by 2352, then how can i find out my many sectors my file has? Do i just take the kilobytes and multiply them by 1024 (getting the file size in bytes) and then divide by 2352? If u could fill me in, i'm not sure if thats right, thanks
Also, did u mean a flat integer, as in no decimal places what-so-ever, or would something like 29578.00000000005697912891 Still work
Thanks
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aldaco12
AfterDawn Addict
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21. December 2002 @ 05:33 |
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The size is in BYTES. Please note: you NEED to know the EXACT size in BYTES. Should you multiply the size in kb by 1024 you would get problems (since the size in kb is truncated).
For instance, the image of Dino Crisis PSX (.bin format)has a size of 417,990,384 bytes.
If you divde thts number by 2352 you have EXACTLY 117717 (=sectors). This means that on the Physical PSX CD (a 74 min CD made of 333000 sectors) only sectors from 0 to 177716 were occupied, the remaining were blank.
Please note that a not completely full sector on the physical CD is always extracted as 2352 bytes. The blank spaces in the physical CD will be replaced by zeros in the image.
So, since BIN size = CDsectors*2352, the result of (BIN size)/2352 is always a flat integer. No way it could be different!
Got it?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 21. December 2002 @ 05:40
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erico
Newbie
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21. December 2002 @ 11:24 |
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i kinda get it. I think all i need to do is multiply my 700,899 mb bin file by 1024, to get the bytes, and then divide by 2352. But tell me, do sectors only apply to PSX CD's? or will they also apply to a computer CD's?
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aldaco12
AfterDawn Addict
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22. December 2002 @ 10:37 |
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No, you need to open Windows Explorer, right-click the file and choose 'properties'. You will see that file size (e.g. 408,194 kb) will be shown as "398 Mb (417,990,384 bytes)".
You'll notice that "417,990,384 bytes" is the EXACT size and "408,194 kb" is the size in kb ROUNDED to an integer (so multiplying by 1024 would give you a wrong result).
And, what I told applies to all CDs. All raw images size are = 2352 * N , where N=number of sector extracted from the Physical CD (either PC, PSX, VCD).
The only difference is:
- when you burn a PSX or VCD image you burn MODE2 data (MODE2 data means that the 2352 bytes of each sector are made of 16 bytes for header + 2336 bytes for data);
- when you burn PC images you burn MODE1 data (2352 bytes = 16 bytes header + 2048 bytes data + 286 bytes of error correction codes).
How does your burner knows you are burning a PC CD or a PSX CD? An ISO image has all information included, a .BIN needs to know this from the .CUE file! (as I posted above, .CUE fixes that in the command that is written in their second line, that can be either MODE2/2352 or MODE1/2352).
In Nero you have to set an option in the burning options screen.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 22. December 2002 @ 11:09
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