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The complete HD (Blu-ray/HD-DVD) back-up thread.
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spexman
Junior Member
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6. November 2008 @ 09:25 |
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Odin24,
I have begun several demuxing/encoding variants onto +RW in attempts to confirm compatibility with various BR players and I will post my results as soon as I am finished, for those interested. You brought up eac3to and I have a few questions on it and in general.
1)Eac3to is command driven, and it demuxes as well. Does Eac3toGUI NOT demux, but handle audio conversion only? It seems kind of odd to me that there would be differences in what appears to be the same program! I noticed that Eac3to can demux the BR main feature into ONE, even if split into many parts on the BR itself! This is very convenient. If I am not mistaken, the guide says Tsmuxer can do the same, but one must append each stream manually, and that can be tedious. Can Tsmuxer not 'append' automatically by reading the playlist?
2)Is there any way to convert BR PCM audio to TrueHD?
3)I am having a difficult time getting the Panny BR players to recognize 'BD-5' on SD cards via its slot. The same BD-5 structure on +RW works!, but not on the SD card, even when I use AVCHD Me on it...any suggestions?
4)The guide suggests we demux a small sample clip first for testing using Tsmuxer, and then to recode with MeGUI; BUT, the guide also says that MeGUI does NOT accept raw streams, but ONLY streams in containers...so, how does one get the small sample clip into MeGUI after demuxing with Tsmuxer?
...that's it for now, thanks!
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Senior Member
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6. November 2008 @ 10:13 |
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Originally posted by spexman:
Odin24,
I have begun several demuxing/encoding variants onto +RW in attempts to confirm compatibility with various BR players and I will post my results as soon as I am finished, for those interested. You brought up eac3to and I have a few questions on it and in general.
1)Eac3to is command driven, and it demuxes as well. Does Eac3toGUI NOT demux, but handle audio conversion only? It seems kind of odd to me that there would be differences in what appears to be the same program! I noticed that Eac3to can demux the BR main feature into ONE, even if split into many parts on the BR itself! This is very convenient. If I am not mistaken, the guide says Tsmuxer can do the same, but one must append each stream manually, and that can be tedious. Can Tsmuxer not 'append' automatically by reading the playlist?
Eac3toGUI is just a GUI written by someone who might just want to utilize (at the time) audio conversions that eac3to can handle. Don't think of eac3toGUI as a program, it's a very limited GUI that controls eac3to and it's most basic functions. Another, more advanced GUI is out there called Eac3to_and_more_GUI, this one I believe can handle demuxing video as well.
In tsMuxeR if you read the correct MPLS playlist on a seamless branching title the file it will show which m2ts files need appending to make one. By using this you do not need to append each file individually, either remux to Blu-ray, m2ts, or demux. All streams or whichever selected will append in one shot.
Here's the kicker, using tsMuxeR on seamless branching titles (more than one m2ts to the main feature) is not recommended, as it leaves gaps/overlaps where one file meets the next. Eac3to handles this perfect and detects gaps/overlaps and fixes them. I suggest learning how to use eac3to, although intimidating at first it's not that hard to use.
2)Is there any way to convert BR PCM audio to TrueHD?
No, you would need a TrueHD encoder and there is none available at the moment. However you can still keep TrueHD from your BD rips. Process first though tsMuxeR, remux to m2ts. Take that m2ts and remux using tsremux, mux to Blu-ray. This is what I do.
3)I am having a difficult time getting the Panny BR players to recognize 'BD-5' on SD cards via its slot. The same BD-5 structure on +RW works!, but not on the SD card, even when I use AVCHD Me on it...any suggestions?
Not sure, I have never used a Panny. I believe it has something to do with the structure. Search or even ask in the Doom9 forum, I believe that is where I read about your issue with the Pannys.
4)The guide suggests we demux a small sample clip first for testing using Tsmuxer, and then to recode with MeGUI; BUT, the guide also says that MeGUI does NOT accept raw streams, but ONLY streams in containers...so, how does one get the small sample clip into MeGUI after demuxing with Tsmuxer?
Use the Split & Cut feature in tsMuxeR, set your start/end time, I generally use a 5 minute sample. Mux to m2ts, done! Now you have a small sample, about 300mb with all that you need. I usually use this for subtitle placement, it's perfect for a USB and the AVCHD-ME program.
...that's it for now, thanks! You're welcome.
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spexman
Junior Member
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6. November 2008 @ 11:10 |
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Though running the risk of stating the obvious, Odin24, you kick *!#
Your explanation of eac3to really helps. I apologize for my limited computer knowledge; when I was in high school, we were programming the ONE computer(which occupied an entire room on its own!) using bubble cards! With the help of some posts on Doom9, I have learned how to use the BASICS of this program, but will look at the other GUI you mentioned as well! Thanks for the tip about using eac3to over Tsmuxer to combine the files.
Too bad about no TrueHd encoder...there are some BR that have PCM as their 'hi rez' audio and I was hoping to achieve some lossless compression on it, but I guess I will have to wait; though I believe more and more titles are now using TrueHD or DTS-MA over PCM, so this is likely a non-issue going forward.
As for the stinkin' Panny SD slot; I must learn to NOT 'assume'; one would assume that since the same structure played in the DVD tray that it would also play in the slot, but NO! I too believe that it must have something to do with structure, and will do my best to dig and solve it...I will let you know how it goes.
And for the cut in Tsmuxer and output to m2ts, I guess you also have to run the same clip through demux to get the audio out of it so that you can remux it with the video encode after Me GUI? Or can one achieve video encode AND audio remux to mkv in MeGUI(this part was not elucidated in the guide; the guide does not mention the audio portion in MeGUI)...sorry for the repetition, but THANKS!
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Senior Member
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6. November 2008 @ 12:10 |
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Originally posted by spexman:
And for the cut in Tsmuxer and output to m2ts, I guess you also have to run the same clip through demux to get the audio out of it so that you can remux it with the video encode after Me GUI?
You do not need to do that. After you do whatever to the video portion, load it and the original cut m2ts and de-select the original video stream. Now just mux to Blu or m2ts, no demuxing needed..
Originally posted by spexman:
Or can one achieve video encode AND audio remux to mkv in MeGUI(this part was not elucidated in the guide; the guide does not mention the audio portion in MeGUI)...sorry for the repetition, but THANKS!
If you wish to remux your new encode to mkv then you will need to demux your cut m2ts from tsMuxeR.
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spexman
Junior Member
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6. November 2008 @ 12:21 |
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Once again, thanks for your advice...I appreciate the 'no need to do that; just load in the original cut m2ts to get the audio'...why didn't I think of that? I guess I need to start thinking on my own of the immense capabilities these programs have, especially Tsmuxer! Very flexible indeed! I am tending to stick to what the guide says, and though an excellent piece of work which I have printed out and keep by my side while working, I am learning that there are MANY ways things can be done, and I guess only with time does one find the 'most effective' techniques! More burning of the midnight oil tonight!
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Senior Member
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6. November 2008 @ 12:40 |
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Originally posted by spexman:
Once again, thanks for your advice...I appreciate the 'no need to do that; just load in the original cut m2ts to get the audio'...why didn't I think of that? I guess I need to start thinking on my own of the immense capabilities these programs have, especially Tsmuxer! Very flexible indeed! I am tending to stick to what the guide says, and though an excellent piece of work which I have printed out and keep by my side while working, I am learning that there are MANY ways things can be done, and I guess only with time does one find the 'most effective' techniques! More burning of the midnight oil tonight!
tsMuxeR is a good program, but honestly, I only use it to mux to Blu or m2ts. Eac3to is by far more superior... except the fact it can only mux to mkv... which is useless to me. As for demuxing/converting; eac3to all of the way.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. November 2008 @ 12:42
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spexman
Junior Member
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6. November 2008 @ 13:04 |
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So, Odin24, you demux(Blurays) with eac3to, convert audio with eac3to, recode video with MeGUI and remux to m2ts or BR with Tsmuxer?(I too have no interest in mkvs) I believe this will be my flowchart as well.
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Senior Member
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6. November 2008 @ 13:39 |
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Originally posted by spexman:
So, Odin24, you demux(Blurays) with eac3to, convert audio with eac3to, recode video with MeGUI and remux to m2ts or BR with Tsmuxer?(I too have no interest in mkvs) I believe this will be my flowchart as well.
Exactly. There are a few ways I watch my movies,
-If I need susbtiles I make a BD disc with HD audio and subs.
-If the main movie does not need subs and has DTS HD-MA or TrueHD and will fit on a BD25 then this is how I view, if not I will convert the HD audio to LPCM and copy to my PS3's HDD.
I just watched the Pirates of the Carribean trilogy (not in one sitting) by copying the untouched m2ts file from the rip to my PS3. The files were ~35GB each.
Rip--> eac3to (demux)--> tsMuxeR to BD with PCM or DTS HD-MA
Rip--> eac3to (demux)--> tsMuxeR to m2ts with TrueHD -->tsremux to BD
Rip--> eac3to (demux and convert audio to LPCM)--> tsMuxeR to m2ts--> copy to PS3
Since I have an HD audio receiver I rarely convert my audio, only if I wish to archive to DVD9, then I convert to DTS @ 1536kb/s regardless of the source. Or if I need to convert to uncompressed LPCM.
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spexman
Junior Member
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6. November 2008 @ 15:04 |
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Why convert to LPCM at all? Is it to do with PS3 compatibility? I thought PS3 could bitstream both TrueHD and DTSMA to your HDMI HD audio capable receiver...
Also, I do not quite follow in your 2nd example(I assume these were 3 different examples) with TrueHD, why the need to go to m2ts first and then BR; can't it be done in one pass to BR?
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Senior Member
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6. November 2008 @ 15:18 |
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Originally posted by spexman:
Why convert to LPCM at all? Is it to do with PS3 compatibility? I thought PS3 could bitstream both TrueHD and DTSMA to your HDMI HD audio capable receiver...
Also, I do not quite follow in your 2nd example(I assume these were 3 different examples) with TrueHD, why the need to go to m2ts first and then BR; can't it be done in one pass to BR?
The PS3 cannot bitstream HD audio, it decodes and sends as uncompressed LPCM.
The extra step using tsremux us neccesary because tsMuxeR for some reason cannot mux TrueHD properly. There is going to be a revision to tsMuxeR in the new year, hopefully this issue is resolved.
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spexman
Junior Member
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6. November 2008 @ 15:58 |
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OK, that will definitely come in handy when I am trying to preserve TrueHD. I appreciate that little piece of info.
Off I go for a 3rd attempt at SD into the Panny at the local Future Shop; I do believe it is a structure issue, but the question is, will it ONLY recognize AVC footage from an AVCHD camcorder, OR will it allow us to put any compatible BR spec video and audio stream!? After all, that is the/my intent!
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Senior Member
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6. November 2008 @ 17:01 |
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Originally posted by spexman:
OK, that will definitely come in handy when I am trying to preserve TrueHD. I appreciate that little piece of info.
Off I go for a 3rd attempt at SD into the Panny at the local Future Shop; I do believe it is a structure issue, but the question is, will it ONLY recognize AVC footage from an AVCHD camcorder, OR will it allow us to put any compatible BR spec video and audio stream!? After all, that is the/my intent!
It should allow you to play anything AVCHD, whether it's h264 or VC-1, I don't think it'll matter.
Here's how the structure should be. Doom9 Link.
I think this is what you need to do.
1. Make your Blu-ray structure, place in the AVCHD folder and use AVCHD-ME.
2. Place that AVCHD folder in a folder called PRIVATE.
I cannot test as I do not have a Panny.
Cheers.
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Coolsmart
Newbie
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6. November 2008 @ 17:28 |
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I'm trying 1 pass now, to see if there is any major difference in quality.
Not that my Q9450 @ 3.2Ghz with 4GB RAM cannot do a good job, but it still saves me some time.
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Coolsmart
Newbie
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6. November 2008 @ 18:58 |
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I have now tested it, and i can't see any difference between a 1 pass and a 2 pass.
I have played the bluray disc in WinDVD, and the original .mkv in VLC player, in the exact same size window next to eachother.
They were played simultaneously so that i could compare 'on the fly'.
I'm sticking to 1 pass.
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Coolsmart
Newbie
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6. November 2008 @ 19:13 |
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Nevermind my last message!!
I compared the original .mkv with a 2 pass bluray disc, so i haven't seen any difference yet.
I'm sorry for the spam!
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spexman
Junior Member
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6. November 2008 @ 22:09 |
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Well, strike 3 and 4 tonight.
I did as your link showed me, which mirrored this link as well:
http://www.elurauser.com/articles/avchd_to_bluray.jsp
It STILL did not work!
I then being fed up, took my SD card over to a Panny camcorder, formatted it, and recorded some clips of my daughters. Stuck it into the Panny BR player, and yes, it plays!
So, I came home, analyzed the structure, and it is slightly different from even what is posted on these sites. I tried to mirror it on a DIFFERENT SD card, tried it tonight again, and NO! I got a 'improperly formatted' error! The Panny BR SD slot is one picky son-of-a-gun!
My SD card was FAT32 and I noticed that when the Panny camcorder formats it, it is only FAT.
SO, I have now formatted both my cards with the Panny camcorder and will try the structure again on these properly formatted cards and will see if I find success tomorrow...the fun continues!
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Senior Member
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7. November 2008 @ 08:13 |
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Originally posted by spexman:
Well, strike 3 and 4 tonight.
I did as your link showed me, which mirrored this link as well:
http://www.elurauser.com/articles/avchd_to_bluray.jsp
It STILL did not work!
I then being fed up, took my SD card over to a Panny camcorder, formatted it, and recorded some clips of my daughters. Stuck it into the Panny BR player, and yes, it plays!
So, I came home, analyzed the structure, and it is slightly different from even what is posted on these sites. I tried to mirror it on a DIFFERENT SD card, tried it tonight again, and NO! I got a 'improperly formatted' error! The Panny BR SD slot is one picky son-of-a-gun!
My SD card was FAT32 and I noticed that when the Panny camcorder formats it, it is only FAT.
SO, I have now formatted both my cards with the Panny camcorder and will try the structure again on these properly formatted cards and will see if I find success tomorrow...the fun continues!
Maybe the firmware on the players at the store are not up to date? Also, are you using proper sized videos?
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spexman
Junior Member
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7. November 2008 @ 09:20 |
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The video is proper size; recall, the exact SAME stream plays just fine in the player when made a BR by Tsmuxer and burnt onto a +RW.
The video is AVC(1080x1920,24fps) and the audio is DTS-MA.
I have tried the SD slot on both the Panny 30 and 35; no dice, yet they do both play the card straight out of the camcorder, so I don't think it is a firmware issue...
I will try again tonight, having dotted all my i's and crossed all my t's; IF I can't get this to work, I will likely surrender! It could very well be that in the slot, ONLY AVCHD spec works, and that means DTS-MA will NOT be accepted. I would at least like to see the acknowledgment by the player that it reads my card as an AVCHD card because NOW I DO have the correct structure!
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Senior Member
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7. November 2008 @ 09:33 |
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Originally posted by spexman:
The video is proper size; recall, the exact SAME stream plays just fine in the player when made a BR by Tsmuxer and burnt onto a +RW.
The video is AVC(1080x1920,24fps) and the audio is DTS-MA.
I have tried the SD slot on both the Panny 30 and 35; no dice, yet they do both play the card straight out of the camcorder, so I don't think it is a firmware issue...
I will try again tonight, having dotted all my i's and crossed all my t's; IF I can't get this to work, I will likely surrender! It could very well be that in the slot, ONLY AVCHD spec works, and that means DTS-MA will NOT be accepted. I would at least like to see the acknowledgment by the player that it reads my card as an AVCHD card because NOW I DO have the correct structure!
If that's the case try regular AC3 or convert your DTS HD-MA to uncompressed, both of which are in the AVCHD spec. Use eac3to_and_more_GUI to convert. You can find both pcm2tsmu and eac3to and more GUI in the Doom9 forum. I think this will be your best bet.
First make sure the paths for eac3to and Pcm2Tsmu are specified in the first tab of the GUI.
1. Load your file under the "Path/Sources" tab
2. Under the "Eac3to Audio" tab (in the dropdown box on the right side) choose your file.
3. In the same tab, in the "File Name" section use "stdout".
4. "Save As Type" should be PCM
5. Go to the "Eac3to stdout" tab, name your file (whatever you like)
6. "Run Command Line (Tab Specific)
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spexman
Junior Member
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7. November 2008 @ 09:38 |
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OK, I will try a 'compliant' AVCHD stream IF my evening's attempt does not work; thanks for the step by step help(you know I need it!)
That being said, my hope was that I COULD use TrueHD/DTS-MA via the card slot, but, it is not a deal breaker if I can't, seeing how I CAN via a BD-5 or BD-9! It would be the cherry on top, though, IF that slot worked just like the DVD drive, giving us full BR spec capabilities!
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Senior Member
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7. November 2008 @ 11:42 |
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Originally posted by spexman:
OK, I will try a 'compliant' AVCHD stream IF my evening's attempt does not work; thanks for the step by step help(you know I need it!)
That being said, my hope was that I COULD use TrueHD/DTS-MA via the card slot, but, it is not a deal breaker if I can't, seeing how I CAN via a BD-5 or BD-9! It would be the cherry on top, though, IF that slot worked just like the DVD drive, giving us full BR spec capabilities!
I'm pretty sure the card must be SDHC (not SD).
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spexman
Junior Member
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7. November 2008 @ 12:19 |
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Both my cards are 'only' SD, 1GB...but remember, they DID work when I used them in the Panny camcorder to record 1080x1920, and then worked again in the Panny BR SD slot with the camcorder footage; so that should not be a factor.
When I put the camcorder footage in, the Panny BR player brought up an AVCHD viewer screen.
As opposed to ALL my failed attempts, the Panny brought up a JPEG viewer screen!
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jordan198
Newbie
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7. November 2008 @ 13:43 |
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I have several problems here. I'm backing up my discs to HDD to stream to PS3.
1) When I backup Die Hard (Or Die Hard 2), and play it back on my PC, the m2ts file acts retarded. Jumping/stuttering sync issues. When I play it back on PS3 over tversity, same problem. I also have signs and apocalytp0, they skip on my PC but not when streamed to PS3.
2) Around 80% into ripping Predator with anydvd HD, the drive stops reading the disc.
3) If I mux in PGS subtitles, they won't appear on PS3. (Tsmuxer).
I think thats about it for now.
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spexman
Junior Member
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7. November 2008 @ 19:33 |
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Odin24, I have struck out(on 4 strikes in fact). It was a no go tonight, again giving me the jpeg screen.
So, I believe it is safe to say that the SD slot is for "AVCHD format" video only; I will verify this theory tomorrow when I try with an AC3 audio stream and 1080x1920 AVC video stream.
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Senior Member
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7. November 2008 @ 19:39 |
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Originally posted by spexman:
Odin24, I have struck out(on 4 strikes in fact). It was a no go tonight, again giving me the jpeg screen.
So, I believe it is safe to say that the SD slot is for "AVCHD format" video only; I will verify this theory tomorrow when I try with an AC3 audio stream and 1080x1920 AVC video stream.
Struck out with LPCM, or DTS HD-MA? I'm gonna try too... Future Shop has BD-RE's on sale for $15, I'll bring by SDHC card with a small AVC clip with LPCM on it. I'm not sure when I'll get out though.
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