|
Nvideas rsx pipelines vs 360 ATI pipelines 360 core vs ps3 cell
|
|
AfterDawn Addict
|
23. January 2006 @ 13:00 |
Link to this message
|
|
the spe is nothing that needs extra special coding for. you use a different type of code for the ppe, and the ppe powers the spe's. it all works together. even the ppe uses different code than the normal core.
But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...
PS3 Username: Anubis66
|
|
Advertisement
|
|
|
|
|
KoOkOo67
Suspended due to non-functional email address
|
23. January 2006 @ 13:07 |
Link to this message
|
|
Hmm doesnt the cell have more transistor count tho?
>_<
|
|
vzero
Junior Member
|
23. January 2006 @ 13:08 |
Link to this message
|
|
This is like talking to a brick wall. I am not asking you for your thoughts - I am telling you that this is the case because I have spoken to people actually using the cell and I have spoken to people using PS3 dev kits and I have a good undertsanding of all of this. The Cell is really hard to code for and the SPEs are inefficient and laregly useless apart from forsomephysics acceleration,but not much. Do not contradict this, because I am not speaking an opinion here, this is a Fact!
|
AfterDawn Addict
|
23. January 2006 @ 13:08 |
Link to this message
|
|
i think it has over 200 million transistors.
But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...
PS3 Username: Anubis66
|
AfterDawn Addict
|
23. January 2006 @ 13:11 |
Link to this message
|
|
and if you insist this fact show sources. if these devs you know are so knowlagable, then why is this info not out? the 360 is easier to code for yes, but the ps3 is easier to code for than the ps2. the spe's are not largely useless, and perform most of the given tasks. get that thru your skull.
But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...
PS3 Username: Anubis66
|
|
vzero
Junior Member
|
23. January 2006 @ 13:17 |
Link to this message
|
|
NO YOU GET THIS THROUGH YOUR SKULL.
1. THE SPE ARRAY IS VERY HARD TO CODE FOR!
2. THE SPE ARRAY CANNOT PERFORM MANY USEFUL TASKS, DEVELOPERS ARE STUGGLINGTO FIND A USE FOR THEM.
3. THE CELL HAS OVER 200 MILLION TRANSISTORS BUT ONLY AROUND 50 MILLION FOR THE PPE, THE CORE THAT DOES THE MAJORITY OF THE WORK!
4. HERE ARE TWO QUOTES TO HELP YOU UNDERSTAND, SOURCED FROM AN ANADTECH ARTICLE,SO YOU KNOW THEY ARE GOOD...
"The most ironic bit of it all is that according to developers, if either
manufacturer had decided to use an Athlon 64 or a Pentium D in their
next-gen console, they would be significantly ahead of the competition in
terms of CPU performance."
"In order to access main memory, the SPE places a DMA
request on the bus (or the PPE can initiate the DMA request) and waits for
it to be fulfilled. From those that have had experience with the PS3
development kits, this access takes far too long to be used in many real
world scenarios. It is the small amount of local memory that each SPE has
access to that limits the SPEs from being able to work on more than a
handful of tasks. While physics acceleration is an important one, there are
many more tasks that can't be accelerated by the SPEs because of the memory
limitation"
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. January 2006 @ 13:18
|
AfterDawn Addict
|
23. January 2006 @ 13:17 |
Link to this message
|
But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...
PS3 Username: Anubis66
|
|
vzero
Junior Member
|
23. January 2006 @ 13:22 |
Link to this message
|
|
Oh great.I quote a reputable hardware analyst who has more knowledge than most of us in one cell of his brain, and you tell me to read Sony marketing. You are a victim of marketing and I am sorry for you, I am not biased. I have had the chance to speak to my friends who are developers (and they said that it's damn hard to code for and can be a useless fat pig at times) yet you still argue using Sony press. Genius my applause goes out to you, you utter ******
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. January 2006 @ 13:23
|
AfterDawn Addict
|
23. January 2006 @ 13:26 |
Link to this message
|
|
and the guys at midway say its pretty easy to code for. its all a matter of opinion and how smart one is. devs will have to learn the new language, but it issnt too hard and it quite easy once you get the hang of it. people say "omfg its hard" cuz they are used to the old coding, but once they learn the new style it wont be difficult. why do you have to be such an ass? accept that you are not always right. everyone has different experiences and different views.
But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...
PS3 Username: Anubis66
|
|
KoOkOo67
Suspended due to non-functional email address
|
23. January 2006 @ 13:30 |
Link to this message
|
|
I am a bit confuesed now. Are we talking about how easy or hard the cell is to code for. Or what it can produce. Are we talking about the dev kits or the ps3. The dev kits arnt the ps3 replica, and are far weaker. We all know that the dev kits are clocked at 2.4ghz by now.
-One thing i do know is that the ps2 was way way harder to program for, yett look how many games there are. Game developers find solutions to these problems, and soon the ps3 cell will be slightly better and faster to program for. Tho this is my oppinion, it is most likley to become true.
-The other thign i know is that the ps3 is much easier to program compairing to the playstation 2. Soo..Why are all these developers trying to bring down the ps3 for?
As you vzsero has said, more transistors more more performance, the ps3 has 234million transistor counts, rsx at 300million.
And 360 has 165 million transistors for the CPU'S. (ALl CORE COUNT)
Which i find wron, and do not believe that more tranistor count necessaryly means, better processor.
>_<
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. January 2006 @ 13:33
|
|
vzero
Junior Member
|
23. January 2006 @ 13:31 |
Link to this message
|
|
But I am right, and that's the problem. It has been proven that the SPEs have little use in real world scenarios. We know the claim of 2 tflops is bollocks and that flops don't mean shit anyway... Sure it will get easier to code for in time, everything does, but right now it's not easy, it's not fun and it's not fast... It just sucks ass and the 360 is only a little better. If eitehr had a Pentium or Athlon then first gen games would have really been something, as it stands they are just OK...
|
|
vzero
Junior Member
|
23. January 2006 @ 13:33 |
Link to this message
|
|
Kookoo, my point was that much of the transistor count in PS3 is made up of the fairly useless SPEs and hence sometimes a transistor count can be decieveing. But the P4 has like 140 million transistors and a bigger die than both - and that is just a single core. Also the dev kits do represent a good idea of how the SPEs can be used and what their performance will be...
|
AfterDawn Addict
|
23. January 2006 @ 13:38 |
Link to this message
|
they are not useless, sony has put them to good use in their demos. it just takes the right coding and trial and error till you get it right.
http://news.punchjump.com/article.php?id=1929
that like proves us both. it says its hard at start, but after trial and error, companies will learn it well enuf to exploit the complete potential.
But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...
PS3 Username: Anubis66
|
|
vzero
Junior Member
|
23. January 2006 @ 13:41 |
Link to this message
|
|
So I think it is fair to say that PC processors are faster and that the xenon and cell are equal.
|
AfterDawn Addict
|
23. January 2006 @ 13:45 |
Link to this message
|
|
equal at points, and both are better in certain areas. the cell will be perfect for gaming, media, and load speeds, and the xenon is more general purpose for things like a computer would be used for. also, the 3 cores and 6 threads are there, but are long and hard to code for aswell, same with the spe's. the plus about the cores is they use a more known code, and it will take time for the spe's to be fully understood.
But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...
PS3 Username: Anubis66
|
|
KoOkOo67
Suspended due to non-functional email address
|
23. January 2006 @ 13:47 |
Link to this message
|
I am allready aware of how much transistor counts the p4 has. This is why I am turning my back from consols. PC's are just plain better and can do more.
It's just kind of intresting o know that soon, we will all be seeing "Cell processor" in PC's. Yes toshiba and sony AND imb as announed this. It will run with linux, because linux runs best on it, I assume. Actually, they are going to be DUAL CELL PROCESSORS. So i dont know what to expect.
I stilldo not get whyyou are calling SPE's useless, when hey can do many things. Gflops are still valuable, and are concidered as floating point PERFORMANCE. Anyways, i dont really care lol
Quote:
So I think it is fair to say that PC processors are faster and that the xenon and cell are equal.
PC's are FAR FAR ahead of consols, and will allways be. We already see games for pc what look like 360 game equivelents. This is because developers allready know the PC very well. It would of been mcuh better if the consols have stuck with pentiums and AMD's. But they chose different paths, because of expences. By the time ps3 comes out, PC's would most likely run ps3 games much better, than the ps3,(through emulation). Heck we are already seeing an overclocked" nvdea RSX. 750mhz! THATS FAST.
The xbox had a very good advantage by choosing the PENTIUM 3 as it's processor. It was far ahead of ps2 with programming, and everything else.
Also to Anibus's post, AMD computers are BEST AT GAMING. Not the cell. Although, we are not so sure about the dual cell yett.
>_<
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. January 2006 @ 13:51
|
|
vzero
Junior Member
|
23. January 2006 @ 13:48 |
Link to this message
|
|
Well put. It seems we have reached a resolution we can both agree on. Let's let it stay at this untilany new evidence comes to the fore.
|
AfterDawn Addict
|
23. January 2006 @ 13:55 |
Link to this message
|
|
ok.
to kookoo, amd's have been proven, and the cell is a new design. also, no crap pc processors are better. look at the 2.8 ghx san diego cor fx-55, it cost over 1100 dollars if i remember right. thats the price of almost 3 xbox 360's premiums. they could make a god console than pwnz an insane pc, but it would be a fortune more and would not be baaught when the 360 and ps3 a great as is. plus they dont need a super insane processor, all they are doing is running games and nothing more.
But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...
PS3 Username: Anubis66
|
|
KoOkOo67
Suspended due to non-functional email address
|
23. January 2006 @ 14:00 |
Link to this message
|
|
Ha, by the time ps3 hits, the pc equivelent will be far far FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR cheaper.
the 7800 x 512 mb will probably drop by ALOTE. This is because the ge7300, ge7200, ge7900, ge8000 and any other G8 card that hits the market, WILL MAKE THE 7800 512mb FAR FAR CHEAPER.
And the G8's will make the Ge7900 FAR FAR cheaper.
And yes, the G7900 is arround 20% better than the RSX.
New memory will hit aswell, and YES you will be able to buy XDR memory this year. AND YOU CAN have more than a lausy 256mb of XDR memory. This will make DDr2SDram far cheaper.
Boy by the time ps3 hits, pc's will be far ahead of it. And you know this, despite the *slight* price increase. But you pay for what you get, is'nt that right?
>_<
|
AfterDawn Addict
|
23. January 2006 @ 14:05 |
Link to this message
|
|
you dont need too much ram for a console, it has no os to maintain. and the equivelant to
the cell in the ps3 will cost atleast 500 to 600 dollars a year or 2 from now, and over a grand
upon release.
computers dont get cheap fast. a 6800gt cost about 40 bucks less than a 7800gt. there is a
noticable dif between the two but little price difference.
But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...
PS3 Username: Anubis66
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. January 2006 @ 14:06
|
|
KoOkOo67
Suspended due to non-functional email address
|
23. January 2006 @ 14:06 |
Link to this message
|
|
DUDE, a p4 equivelent to the cell now is like 400-500$
I remember a website, i think it was from gamespot, said that the cell in the ps3 costs 100$ to manufacture. You are telling me that it will cost 2000?
HAHAHa
>_<
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. January 2006 @ 14:07
|
AfterDawn Addict
|
23. January 2006 @ 14:07 |
Link to this message
|
|
the cells is new and commonly misunderstood. you do not know its equivelent. plus its specifically design for certain things. wait untill the cells mainstream release before making such accusations.
But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...
PS3 Username: Anubis66
|
|
KoOkOo67
Suspended due to non-functional email address
|
23. January 2006 @ 14:11 |
Link to this message
|
Quote:
computers dont get cheap fast. a 6800gt cost about 40 bucks less than a 7800gt. there is a
noticable dif between the two but little price difference.
Do you remember how much the 6600 was at release. And how much it is now?
I BOUGHT MY COMPUTER LAST YEAR. It is an amd 3000+ 512mb of memory shared. SHARED because of video card. LCD moinitor, windows XP home, and lots of software. It cost in total 1200$.
You can now buy this computer, for a third of the cost. I see laptops on bestbuy, 799$ canadian amd 3000+ with a good video card, i think 6600. Last year, that would of been 1699$
>_<
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. January 2006 @ 14:11
|
AfterDawn Addict
|
23. January 2006 @ 14:15 |
Link to this message
|
|
well im putting together a new pc.
im getting an evga 7800gt, 2.2 ghz amd 3700 san diego with an xp-90c for oc'ing, dfi
lanparty ut nf4 ultra, ddr500 ram 2x 1 gig sticks, an awesome blue uv led clear acryllic case,
and enuf fanse to create a windtunnel. all about 1175.
But they all do sort of the same thing, and that is rearrange what you thought was real, and they remind you of the beauty of very simple things. You forget, because youre so busy going from a to z, that theres 24 letters in between... You turn on... tune in... and you drop out...
PS3 Username: Anubis66
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. January 2006 @ 14:16
|
|
Advertisement
|
|
|
|
KoOkOo67
Suspended due to non-functional email address
|
23. January 2006 @ 14:35 |
Link to this message
|
|
Right, and you have just proven how much prices have gone down in a year.
>_<
|
