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Dvd Shrink burning problem
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ptownmex
Newbie
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4. January 2006 @ 20:37 |
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Like a few other people i have read on this website, i have been using dvd shrink and decrypter for a while now without any problems. For the last couple of weeks whenever i try to burn a dvd with shrink it encodes it properly but then screws up during the burning session. It gives me this gigantic error code from nero. I read a few other posts and i updated my nero software but it still screws up. here's the error code, any help would be great.
Windows XP 5.1
WinAspi: File 'Wnaspi32.dll': Ver=4.71 (0002), size=45056 bytes, created 7/17/2002 9:03:20 AM
ahead WinASPI: File 'C:\Program Files\Ahead\Nero\Wnaspi32.dll': Ver=2.0.1.74, size=164112 bytes, created 10/26/2004 6:35:34 PM
Nero API version: 6.6.0.18
Using interface version: 6.3.1.4
Installed in: C:\Program Files\Ahead\Nero\
Application: ahead\Nero - Burning Rom
Internal Version: 6, 6, 0, 18e
Recorder: <HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4120B>Version: A102 - HA 0 TA 0 - 6.6.0.18
Adapter driver: <atapi> HA 0
Drive buffer : 2048kB
Bus Type : default (0) -> ATAPI, detected: ATAPI
=== Scsi-Device-Map ===
CdRomPeripheral : HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4120B atapi Port 0 ID 0 DMA: On
CdRomPeripheral : LITE-ON CD-ROM LTN-487T atapi Port 0 ID 1 DMA: On
DiskPeripheral : WDC WD2000JD-22HBB0 atapi Port 1 ID 0 DMA: On
=== CDRom-Device-Map ===
HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4120B D: CDRom0
LITE-ON CD-ROM LTN-487T E: CDRom1
=======================
AutoRun : 1
Excluded drive IDs:
WriteBufferSize: 73400320 (0) Byte
ShowDrvBufStat : 0
BUFE : 0
Physical memory : 502MB (514792kB)
Free physical memory: 118MB (120932kB)
Memory in use : 76 %
Uncached PFiles: 0x0
Use Inquiry : 1
Global Bus Type: default (0)
Check supported media : Disabled (0)
3.1.2006
NeroAPI
11:13:46 PM #1 Phase 112 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 276
DVD-Video files reallocation started
11:13:46 PM #2 Phase 114 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 276
DVD-Video files reallocation completed (no file modified)
11:13:46 PM #3 Phase 111 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 276
DVD-Video files sorted
11:13:46 PM #4 Text 0 File Reader.cpp, Line 127
Reader running
11:13:46 PM #5 Text 0 File Writer.cpp, Line 122
Writer HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4120B running
11:13:46 PM #6 Text 0 File AudioCompilationImpl.cpp, Line 842
DRM: StartDrmRecording(RealRec:1, ImageRec:0, Copies:1)
DRM: Beginning burn process.
11:13:46 PM #7 ISO9660GEN -11 File geniso.cpp, Line 3309
First writeable address = 0 (0x00000000)
11:13:46 PM #8 ISO9660GEN -11 File geniso.cpp, Line 3309
First writeable address = 0 (0x00000000)
11:13:46 PM #9 Text 0 File Burncd.cpp, Line 3233
Turn on Disc-At-Once, using DVD media
11:13:46 PM #10 Text 0 File DlgWaitCD.cpp, Line 270
Last possible write address on media: 2298495 (510:46.45, 4489MB)
Last address to be written: 2286239 (508:03.14, 4465MB)
11:13:46 PM #11 Text 0 File DlgWaitCD.cpp, Line 282
Write in overburning mode: NO
11:13:46 PM #12 Text 0 File DlgWaitCD.cpp, Line 2483
Recorder: HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4120B, Media type: DVD-R
Disc Manufacturer: TTG02 -
Disc Application Code: 64, Disc Physical Code: 193
11:13:46 PM #13 Text 0 File DlgWaitCD.cpp, Line 448
>>> Protocol of DlgWaitCD activities: <<<
=========================================
11:13:46 PM #14 Text 0 File ThreadedTransferInterface.cpp, Line 838
Setup items (after recorder preparation)
0: TRM_DATA_MODE1 ()
2 indices, index0 (150) not provided
original disc pos #0 + 2286240 (2286240) = #2286240/508:3.15
relocatable, disc pos for caching/writing not required/ required, no patch infos
-> TRM_DATA_MODE1, 2048, config 0, wanted index0 0 blocks, length 2286240 blocks [HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4120B]
--------------------------------------------------------------
11:13:46 PM #15 Text 0 File ThreadedTransferInterface.cpp, Line 1051
Prepare recorder [HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4120B] for write in CUE-sheet-DAO
DAO infos:
==========
MCN: ""
TOCType: 0x00; Session Closed, disc fixated
Tracks 1 to 1:
1: TRM_DATA_MODE1, 2048/0x00, FilePos 0 0 4682219520, ISRC ""
DAO layout:
===========
__Start_|____Track_|_Idx_|_CtrlAdr_|_RecDep__________
0 | lead-in | 0 | 0x41 | 0x00
0 | 1 | 0 | 0x41 | 0x00
0 | 1 | 1 | 0x41 | 0x00
2286240 | lead-out | 1 | 0x41 | 0x00
11:13:47 PM #16 Phase 24 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 276
Caching of files started
11:13:47 PM #17 Text 0 File Burncd.cpp, Line 4122
Cache writing successful.
11:13:47 PM #18 Phase 25 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 276
Caching of files completed
11:13:47 PM #19 Phase 36 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 276
Burn process started at 8x (11,080 KB/s)
11:13:47 PM #20 Text 0 File ThreadedTransferInterface.cpp, Line 2661
Verifying disc position of item 0 (relocatable, disc pos, no patch infos, orig at #0): write at #0
11:13:47 PM #21 Text 0 File DVDR.cpp, Line 2571
Recording mode: Sequential Recording Mode
11:13:47 PM #22 Text 0 File Mmc.cpp, Line 21774
Set BUFE: Buffer underrun protection -> ON
11:13:47 PM #23 Text 0 File DVDR.cpp, Line 2726
Start write address at LBA 0
DVD high compatibility mode: Yes
11:13:47 PM #24 Text 0 File Cdrdrv.cpp, Line 8892
---- DVD Structure: Physical Format Information (00h) ----
Layer: 0, Address: 0 (0 h), AGID: 0; Length: 2050
Book Type: DVD-R (2), Part Version: 2.0x (5), Extended Part Version: 0.0 (0)
Disc Size: 120 mm, Maximum Rate: <not specified> (F h)
Number of Layers: 1, Track Path: Parallel Track Path (PTP), Layer Type: recordable
Linear Density: 0,267 um/bit, Track Density: 0,74 um/track
Starting Physical Sector Number of Data Area: 30000 h (DVD-ROM, DVD-R/-RW, DVD+R/+RW)
End Physical Sector Number of Data Area: 26127F h
End Sector Number in Layer 0: 0 h (LBN: FFFD0000 h, 4193920 MB)
Data in Burst Cutting Area (BCA) does not exist
Start sector number of the current Border-Out: 2FE10 h
Start sector number of the next Border-In: 2FFA0 h
Media Specific [16..63]:
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 - 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
00 02 FE 10 00 02 FF A0 - 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 - 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
11:14:11 PM #25 Text 0 File Cdrdrv.cpp, Line 1288
23:14:11.000 - HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4120B\H0 T0 : Queue again later
11:17:04 PM #26 SCSI -1039 File Cdrdrv.cpp, Line 1436
SCSI Exec, HA 0, TA 0, LUN 0, buffer 0x00C70000
Status: 0x04 (0x01, SCSI_ERR)
HA-Status 0x00 (0x00, OK)
TA-Status 0x02 (0x01, SCSI_TASTATUS_CHKCOND)
Sense Key: 0x04 (KEY_HARDWARE_ERROR)
Sense Code: 0x09
Sense Qual: 0x01
CDB Data: 0x2A 0x00 0x00 0x0B 0xE7 0xC0 0x00 0x00 0x20 0x00 0x00 0x00
Sense Data: 0x71 0x00 0x04 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x10
0x32 0x34 0x00 0x0C 0x09 0x01
11:17:04 PM #27 CDR -1039 File Writer.cpp, Line 311
Focus or tracking error
11:17:04 PM #28 Text 0 File ThreadedTransfer.cpp, Line 228
all writers idle, stopping conversion
11:17:05 PM #29 Text 0 File ThreadedTransfer.cpp, Line 222
conversion idle, stopping reader
11:17:05 PM #30 Text 0 File DVDR.cpp, Line 2969
EndDAO: Last written address was 780223
11:17:07 PM #31 Phase 38 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 276
Burn process failed at 8x (11,080 KB/s)
11:17:07 PM #32 Text 0 File AudioCompilationImpl.cpp, Line 867
DRM: DRM burn session terminated.
11:17:07 PM #33 Text 0 File AudioCompilationImpl.cpp, Line 896
DRM: Closing entire DRM handling. Bye.
Existing drivers:
File 'Drivers\ASPI32.SYS': Ver=4.71 (0002) built by: WinDDK, size=16512 bytes, created 7/17/2002 8:05:10 AM
File 'Drivers\PXHELP20.SYS': Ver=2.03.01a, size=20368 bytes, created 4/4/2005 7:57:57 PM (Prassi/Veritas driver for win 2K)
File 'Drivers\InCDfs.SYS': Ver=4, 3, 20, 1, size=101504 bytes, created 7/25/2005 10:53:28 AM (InCD4 driver for win NT/2K/XP)
File 'Drivers\InCDpass.SYS': Ver=4, 3, 20, 1, size=29696 bytes, created 7/25/2005 10:53:04 AM (InCD4 driver for win NT/2K/XP)
File 'Drivers\InCDrec.SYS': Ver=4, 3, 20, 1, size=8704 bytes, created 7/25/2005 10:53:30 AM (InCD4 driver for win NT/2K/XP)
Registry Keys:
HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\WinLogon\AllocateCDROMs : 0 (Security Option)
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AfterDawn Addict
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4. January 2006 @ 23:55 |
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Recorder: <HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4120B>Version: A102 - HA 0 TA 0 - 6.6.0.18
Your Nero is up to date but your Firmware is pre-historic latest ver. is A117
Go here:
http://forum.rpc1.org/dl_search.php
Type GSA-4120B in the search box and download and install the latest Firmware..
Quote:
Physical memory : 502MB (514792kB)
Free physical memory: 118MB (120932kB)
Memory in use : 76 %
Not bad but you could turn off some running processes, Anti-virus, Firewall, internet connection, etc. and get a little more free memory to work with..
Quote:
11:13:46 PM #10 Text 0 File DlgWaitCD.cpp, Line 270
Last possible write address on media: 2298495 (510:46.45, 4489MB)
Last address to be written: 2286239 (508:03.14, 4465MB)
Here you?re pushing the edge of the disk.. Open Shrink go to Edit -> Preferences, preferences Tab and set Target DVD size to Custom 4350. This will keep your burn off the edge of the disc where the media dye is sometimes bad..
Quote:
Disc Manufacturer: TTG02 ?
TDK Discs are decent and you shouldn?t have a problem if you don?t push the envelope that is, always burn at ½ the advertised speed. I think these are 8x discs. That means burn at 4x.
Quote:
11:13:47 PM #19 Phase 36 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 276
Burn process started at 8x (11,080 KB/s)
Like I said, slow down your burn speed to 4x and you?ll get a lot better quality burn with fewer coasters?
Quote:
Sense Key: 0x04 (KEY_HARDWARE_ERROR)
Can?t recognize the disk.. I believe that installing the latest Firmware will take care of this problem..
Quote:
File 'Drivers\InCDfs.SYS': Ver=4, 3, 20, 1, size=101504 bytes, created 7/25/2005 10:53:28 AM (InCD4 driver for win NT/2K/XP)
Nero InCD is a known trouble maker. It was needed when Win98 had no disk writing tools but with XP it?s no longer needed? Download the tool to remove it here:
http://www.nero.com/nero6/enu/InCD_CleanTool.html
Work through this list and I?m pretty sure you will eliminate most of your burning problems?
Then let us know..
There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading; The few who learn by observation;
The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves...This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. January 2006 @ 23:59
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AfterDawn Addict
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5. January 2006 @ 02:25 |
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Good job 2oldGeek. Beat me to this one.
Cheers, have a good day buddy.
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ptownmex
Newbie
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5. January 2006 @ 10:55 |
Link to this message
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I uninstalled inCD, deactivated my internet, slowed down the burning process, and set the size to 4350, I also took your advice and downloaded the firmware update and ran the exe file. I don't know if the firmware update did anything because after trying to backup "into the blue" it made a nice shiny coaster for me and after looking at the error code it looked like the update didn't take. is there any way to check before you burn a disc whether or not the firmware is up to date?
Oh and here is the latest error code i just got. Thanks
Windows XP 5.1
IA32
WinAspi: File 'Wnaspi32.dll': Ver=4.71 (0002), size=45056 bytes, created 7/17/2002 9:03:20 AM
ahead WinASPI: File 'C:\Program Files\Ahead\Nero\Wnaspi32.dll': Ver=2.0.1.74, size=164112 bytes, created 10/26/2004 6:35:34 PM
Nero API version: 6.6.0.18
Using interface version: 6.3.1.4
Installed in: C:\Program Files\Ahead\Nero\
Application: ahead\Nero - Burning Rom
Internal Version: 6, 6, 0, 18e
Recorder: <HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4120B>Version: A102 - HA 0 TA 0 - 6.6.0.18
Adapter driver: <atapi> HA 0
Drive buffer : 2048kB
Bus Type : default (0) -> ATAPI, detected: ATAPI
=== Scsi-Device-Map ===
CdRomPeripheral : HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4120B atapi Port 0 ID 0 DMA: On
CdRomPeripheral : LITE-ON CD-ROM LTN-487T atapi Port 0 ID 1 DMA: On
DiskPeripheral : WDC WD2000JD-22HBB0 atapi Port 1 ID 0 DMA: On
=== CDRom-Device-Map ===
HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4120B D: CDRom0
LITE-ON CD-ROM LTN-487T E: CDRom1
=======================
AutoRun : 1
Excluded drive IDs:
WriteBufferSize: 73400320 (0) Byte
ShowDrvBufStat : 0
BUFE : 0
Physical memory : 502MB (514792kB)
Free physical memory: 177MB (181268kB)
Memory in use : 64 %
Uncached PFiles: 0x0
Use Inquiry : 1
Global Bus Type: default (0)
Check supported media : Disabled (0)
5.1.2006
NeroAPI
12:37:00 PM #1 Phase 112 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 276
DVD-Video files reallocation started
12:37:00 PM #2 Phase 114 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 276
DVD-Video files reallocation completed (no file modified)
12:37:00 PM #3 Phase 111 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 276
DVD-Video files sorted
12:37:00 PM #4 Text 0 File Reader.cpp, Line 127
Reader running
12:37:00 PM #5 Text 0 File Writer.cpp, Line 122
Writer HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4120B running
12:37:00 PM #6 Text 0 File AudioCompilationImpl.cpp, Line 842
DRM: StartDrmRecording(RealRec:1, ImageRec:0, Copies:1)
DRM: Beginning burn process.
12:37:00 PM #7 ISO9660GEN -11 File geniso.cpp, Line 3309
First writeable address = 0 (0x00000000)
12:37:00 PM #8 ISO9660GEN -11 File geniso.cpp, Line 3309
First writeable address = 0 (0x00000000)
12:37:00 PM #9 Text 0 File Burncd.cpp, Line 3233
Turn on Disc-At-Once, using DVD media
12:37:00 PM #10 Text 0 File DlgWaitCD.cpp, Line 270
Last possible write address on media: 2298495 (510:46.45, 4489MB)
Last address to be written: 2227887 (495:05.12, 4351MB)
12:37:00 PM #11 Text 0 File DlgWaitCD.cpp, Line 282
Write in overburning mode: NO
12:37:00 PM #12 Text 0 File DlgWaitCD.cpp, Line 2483
Recorder: HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4120B, Media type: DVD-R
Disc Manufacturer: TTG02 -
Disc Application Code: 64, Disc Physical Code: 193
12:37:00 PM #13 Text 0 File DlgWaitCD.cpp, Line 448
>>> Protocol of DlgWaitCD activities: <<<
=========================================
12:37:00 PM #14 Text 0 File ThreadedTransferInterface.cpp, Line 838
Setup items (after recorder preparation)
0: TRM_DATA_MODE1 ()
2 indices, index0 (150) not provided
original disc pos #0 + 2227888 (2227888) = #2227888/495:5.13
relocatable, disc pos for caching/writing not required/ required, no patch infos
-> TRM_DATA_MODE1, 2048, config 0, wanted index0 0 blocks, length 2227888 blocks [HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4120B]
--------------------------------------------------------------
12:37:00 PM #15 Text 0 File ThreadedTransferInterface.cpp, Line 1051
Prepare recorder [HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4120B] for write in CUE-sheet-DAO
DAO infos:
==========
MCN: ""
TOCType: 0x00; Session Closed, disc fixated
Tracks 1 to 1:
1: TRM_DATA_MODE1, 2048/0x00, FilePos 0 0 4562714624, ISRC ""
DAO layout:
===========
__Start_|____Track_|_Idx_|_CtrlAdr_|_RecDep__________
0 | lead-in | 0 | 0x41 | 0x00
0 | 1 | 0 | 0x41 | 0x00
0 | 1 | 1 | 0x41 | 0x00
2227888 | lead-out | 1 | 0x41 | 0x00
12:37:00 PM #16 Phase 24 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 276
Caching of files started
12:37:00 PM #17 Text 0 File Burncd.cpp, Line 4122
Cache writing successful.
12:37:00 PM #18 Phase 25 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 276
Caching of files completed
12:37:00 PM #19 Phase 36 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 276
Burn process started at 4x (5,540 KB/s)
12:37:00 PM #20 Text 0 File ThreadedTransferInterface.cpp, Line 2661
Verifying disc position of item 0 (relocatable, disc pos, no patch infos, orig at #0): write at #0
12:37:00 PM #21 Text 0 File DVDR.cpp, Line 2571
Recording mode: Sequential Recording Mode
12:37:01 PM #22 Text 0 File Mmc.cpp, Line 21774
Set BUFE: Buffer underrun protection -> ON
12:37:01 PM #23 Text 0 File DVDR.cpp, Line 2726
Start write address at LBA 0
DVD high compatibility mode: Yes
12:37:01 PM #24 Text 0 File Cdrdrv.cpp, Line 8892
---- DVD Structure: Physical Format Information (00h) ----
Layer: 0, Address: 0 (0 h), AGID: 0; Length: 2050
Book Type: DVD-R (2), Part Version: 2.0x (5), Extended Part Version: 0.0 (0)
Disc Size: 120 mm, Maximum Rate: <not specified> (F h)
Number of Layers: 1, Track Path: Parallel Track Path (PTP), Layer Type: recordable
Linear Density: 0,267 um/bit, Track Density: 0,74 um/track
Starting Physical Sector Number of Data Area: 30000 h (DVD-ROM, DVD-R/-RW, DVD+R/+RW)
End Physical Sector Number of Data Area: 26127F h
End Sector Number in Layer 0: 0 h (LBN: FFFD0000 h, 4193920 MB)
Data in Burst Cutting Area (BCA) does not exist
Start sector number of the current Border-Out: 2FE10 h
Start sector number of the next Border-In: 2FFA0 h
Media Specific [16..63]:
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 - 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
00 02 FE 10 00 02 FF A0 - 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 - 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 ................
12:37:10 PM #25 Text 0 File Cdrdrv.cpp, Line 1288
12:37:10.421 - HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-4120B\H0 T0 : Queue again later
12:46:50 PM #26 SCSI -1039 File Cdrdrv.cpp, Line 1436
SCSI Exec, HA 0, TA 0, LUN 0, buffer 0x01DC0000
Status: 0x04 (0x01, SCSI_ERR)
HA-Status 0x00 (0x00, OK)
TA-Status 0x02 (0x01, SCSI_TASTATUS_CHKCOND)
Sense Key: 0x04 (KEY_HARDWARE_ERROR)
Sense Code: 0x09
Sense Qual: 0x01
CDB Data: 0x2A 0x00 0x00 0x17 0x15 0xA0 0x00 0x00 0x20 0x00 0x00 0x00
Sense Data: 0x70 0x00 0x04 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x00 0x10
0x32 0x34 0x00 0x0C 0x09 0x01
12:46:50 PM #27 CDR -1039 File Writer.cpp, Line 311
Focus or tracking error
12:46:50 PM #28 Text 0 File ThreadedTransfer.cpp, Line 228
all writers idle, stopping conversion
12:46:50 PM #29 Text 0 File ThreadedTransfer.cpp, Line 222
conversion idle, stopping reader
12:46:50 PM #30 Text 0 File DVDR.cpp, Line 2969
EndDAO: Last written address was 1512863
12:46:50 PM #31 CDR -1039 File WriterStatus.cpp, Line 167
Focus or tracking error
12:46:50 PM #32 TRANSFER -24 File WriterStatus.cpp, Line 167
Could not perform end of Disc-at-once
12:46:50 PM #33 Phase 38 File APIProgress.cpp, Line 276
Burn process failed at 4x (5,540 KB/s)
12:46:50 PM #34 Text 0 File AudioCompilationImpl.cpp, Line 867
DRM: DRM burn session terminated.
12:46:50 PM #35 Text 0 File AudioCompilationImpl.cpp, Line 896
DRM: Closing entire DRM handling. Bye.
Existing drivers:
File 'Drivers\ASPI32.SYS': Ver=4.71 (0002) built by: WinDDK, size=16512 bytes, created 7/17/2002 8:05:10 AM
File 'Drivers\PXHELP20.SYS': Ver=2.03.01a, size=20368 bytes, created 4/4/2005 7:57:57 PM (Prassi/Veritas driver for win 2K)
Registry Keys:
HKLM\Software\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\WinLogon\AllocateCDROMs : 0 (Security Option)
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ptownmex
Newbie
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5. January 2006 @ 11:05 |
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Hang on i'm a retard, i thought that when i opened the exe file it automatically ran it in the background, just ran the program again and it was self extracting to a new folder. ran the update and it says i'm golden, i'll let u know if it works.
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ptownmex
Newbie
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5. January 2006 @ 11:40 |
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Ok the firmware update worked like a champ, Thank You for the help, but can somebody please explain to me what the hell firmware is and why that made such a difference? Thanks again
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Moderator
1 product review
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5. January 2006 @ 12:37 |
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Firmware basically helps your burner to stay current with media. For example when you acquired your burner it may have been an 8X burner, and the prodominant blanks at the time may have been 6X-8X, and now 16X blank media is common. With the firmware revision your burner is able to identify the newer media and in some cases burn at higher speeds.
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AfterDawn Addict
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5. January 2006 @ 12:40 |
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LOL, and yes Firmware does make a big difference.
When New Discs are manufactured, they have information written on them that tell the Drive how to write to them? The Firmware is a little program, in the drive, that can read this info from the disc so it knows how to write this new disc.
That?s it in a nut shell?..
Use DVDDecrypter and go to Tools -> Disk -> Check for Firmware Updates
Do this every few months and you will always be up to date with the new disc that are coming out.
Glad you got it..
There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading; The few who learn by observation;
The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves... |
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