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Pauses with shrink and decrypter
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oneacer
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4. February 2006 @ 03:27 |
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engrinder,
I don't think there is anyone here that burns DVD's at 16x. Most people, including myself burn no faster that 4x, but if 8x works good for you than that is great. A video DVD burning at 16x is asking for trouble in my opinion.
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engrinder
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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4. February 2006 @ 04:41 |
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arniebear and oneacer
Thank you very much for your feedback.
I agree completely about the time difference between 8x and 16x. To be honest, I would not worry that much if it was 1x as I am not concerned about speed.
However, I do have two points:
1. The darn thing should burn at 16x on good media without the hiccups so although, like you, I do not plan on doing so, it would be nice to know it can do 'what it says on the tin'.
2. I have read conflicting reports about what speed to burn: some say the slower the better, others say that burning too far below the rated speed causes more issues and some, like you arniebear, go with a 50% rule.
Presumably the write strategy in the drive firmware is optimised for the rated speed of the media. Therefore, unless there are multiple write stategies against each media code to vary laser power/dwell time depending on the speed selected by the burning software, I guess one should expect the optimal burn quality to be obtained at the rated speed of the media.
The same is true of modern engine management systems on cars: the fuel injection timing, spark timing (if petrol) and turbo pressure are all controlled by a pre-programmed 'map' or, to use DVD burner speak, 'strategy' depending upon a number of factors including engine speed, loading, air temperature etc.
In the case of DVD media, the substrate will vary depending on how quickly it can transition (which will decide the max write speed) and at what power and for how long (dwell time) the laser needs to do its job. Strictly speaking, if a given media code says that it can be written at 1x, 4x, 8x and 16x say, then there should be a separate write startegy for each discrete speed to govern the angular velocity, zoning, laser power and data rate (laser modulation frequency and depth). If there is only one entry in the firmware table for a given media code, then I would argue that either it is optimised for the maximum speed (most likely) or a compromise (which would bear out the 50% rule). If, and only if, there are multiple write strategies, would I agree that slowest is best.
I feel I have just lit the blue touch paper with my diatribe, so I shall leave it there and see what get fired back at me.
Best regards
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oneacer
Member
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4. February 2006 @ 04:46 |
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OOoKKk?! lol
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AfterDawn Addict
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4. February 2006 @ 05:13 |
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Just to add some more info on this.
Quote: DVD Design Considerations
Three objectives had to be resolved to make the DVD a financially viable medium.
First:....... The linear velocity of a DVD must be held constant and be able to reproduce a vertical frame rate of 29.97 frames/second to meet RS-170A specifications for sync signals to maintain compatibility with the rest of the video world (at least in the case of creating a Video DVD). Consider that if the rpm is held constant, then the linear velocity will be quite different from the inner tracks compared to the outer tracks. Thus there must be a mechanism to measure the linear velocity and accurately adjust the disk rpm to maintain a constant linear velocity.
Second: ....... Every DVD player had to have absolute tracking accuracy to insure the extremely narrow laser beam would scan exactly in the middle of the track where the data was recorded. Consider that the track width on a DVD is only .74 um (microns) in width - which is much smaller than a single hair which is typically 50 microns in diameter. Approximately 67 DVD grooves would fit rather nicely in the width of a single human hair ! Add to that, the vagaries of rotating mechanical hardware, fluctuating power line voltages etc, and it became obvious this was not going to be an easy inexpensive task.
Third: ....... The real engineering "killer" was that the DVD player had to be made affordable (read: Cheap !) if it ever was to be a viable product. Building sophisticated tracking electro-mechanical mechanisms into each DVD player and have them remain compatible with high repeatable accuracy across different manufacturer's product lines and media offerings, was not an option. No way that was ever gonna work at an even semi - reasonable price tag. Add to that the mechanism being jostled about in shipping etc, and it was a real engineering challenge. So some clever engineers dreamt up a system whereby each "blank" DVD was to have what is known as pre-grooves. Thus a blank DVD disk isn't really blank at all. The disk already is pressed with the track grooves accurately pre-cut and encoded with a constant bit rate frequency.
There are notable differences between DVD-R and +R formats
DVD-R
The pre-grooves in the case of DVD-R and DVD-RW discs, are not perfect spirals. Instead, the groove is modulated with a constant frequency of 140.6 kHz, known also as the wobble frequency (since the groove actually wobbles !) Much like a lateral cut phonograph groove, groove wobbling means that the grooves wander back and forth in sinusoidal fashion at a fixed amplitude. This constant frequency allows accurate tracking by the laser as well as provides a highly accurate timing signal to which the write clock frequency is derived.
Between the grooves are the pre-pits. The pre-pits contain the sector addressing information.
DVD+R
The +R format pre-groove also uses a wobble frequency, but at a much higher frequency of 817 kHz. Instead of pre-pits, the +R formats convey the sector addressing information by frequency modulating the wobble frequency.
Thus the + and - format DVD's are quite different in their approach to encoding sector addressing and other low level information.
There are a wealth of technical articles on the web delving into the differences in much greater detail, but this is the simple gist of it all !
Anyways, these pre-grooves solve the two most perplexing problems. First of all, the position of the tracks are now accurately controlled at the time of DVD manufacture, allowing a simple and inexpensive linear tracking mechanism to be used in the player/recorder. All the DVD player now has to do, is to read the constant frequency in the pre-groves and keep the signal peaked...... a simple task. The frequency of the recorded "tone" also provides highly accurate timing pulses which are used as a highly accurate timing reference.
Thus much of the impressive accuracy required to make the system work was done when the "blank" DVD was pressed.
Just released newer DVD technology, employs a blue laser with a much shorter wavelength. Data recording densities employing the blue laser will offer up to 27 GB on a single layer side - that's greater than 5 times the capacity of a standard DVD ! (and multi-layer burners are already here !)
Also added is the DL (Double layer) recordable media and DL capable burners - allowing up to approximately 8.5gb per side. So far the DL recordable technology is limited to the +R format. Prices for blank DL media is still a bit "steep", but will undoubtedly drop as the efficiencies of mass production increase.
5. Burning Speed
Although your burner may support 2x, 4x or even 8x burn speeds, the media itself may not. There is a fine balance between the dye layer formulation, response to the laser, laser power levels and speed of the burn. They are all inter-related.
It's somewhat akin to passing your finger thru the flame of a candle. A quick pass thru, and you'll barely feel it.... Stop over the flame however, and you'll end up with a charred finger (assuming you can stand the pain).
Burning a DVD isn't conceptually much different. Upset that delicate balance between burn speed, laser power and dye layer formulation, then skips & freezes will be the likely result. When in doubt, burn at a slower speed.
When you actually read about DVD Construction and the differences in media, it is amazing it works at all with all the variables that must come together to have a playable disk.
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engrinder
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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4. February 2006 @ 06:10 |
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Hi arniebear
Thank you very much for copying this very 'plain english' explanation of the two formats and the relative dependancies into the thread. As an engineer I like simple, straight forward explanations in layman's terms.
I also quite agree with your comment at the end...it is amazing the technology works at all, but then I would have laughed at you when 5MB hard disks could have been mistaken for top-loading washing machines if you had suggested that by 2006 we would have 3.5" drives with nearly 1TB capacity...still based on electro-mechanical technology!!!
What lets the article down is the seemingly arbitrary advice to burn slower if in doubt, having just said not to upset that delicate balance between dye formulation, laser power and rotational speed. Clearly the faster the dye passes under the laser the higher the power required to burn and vice-versa. If one just reduced the speed the laser would over burn, so there must be so firmware compensation when one burns under the rated disk speed...or is there?
I might do a bit of techno-surfing to see if there is some really geeky stuff on burn strategies. Much more of this and we will have enough material for a PhD thesis!
Regards for now.
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