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Microsoft apologizes for banning gay XBL user
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The following comments relate to this news article:
article published on 3 March, 2009
Microsoft has apologized for the banning of an Xbox Live user who self-identified herself as lesbian, even going as far as to call their policies "inelegant."
After the woman revealed her homosexuality in her Xbox Live profile, she was continuously harassed, and Microsoft banned her account, saying many gamers found "her lesbianism offensive."
Microsoft did note that their XBL policy ... [ read the full article ]
Please read the original article before posting your comments.
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BUDDD
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5. March 2009 @ 16:20 |
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Theres a time and a place for learning about or pushing your sexual preferance. If you're trying to meet people of a certain sexual persuasion, navagate yourself to the nearest online dating page.
If you're GAMING the idea is to GAME.
Keep your sexual referances out of the equation, between consenting ADULTS....Whats the problem ?
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ericg8
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5. March 2009 @ 16:34 |
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Originally posted by BUDDD:
...If you're GAMING the idea is to GAME.
Keep your sexual referances out of the equation...
At least there's ONE person in the gaming community that's actually getting some vagigi! LOL
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BUDDD
Newbie
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5. March 2009 @ 17:08 |
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I am a man trapped in a mans body.....
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ericg8
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5. March 2009 @ 17:22 |
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Originally posted by BUDDD:
I am a man trapped in a mans body.
Perhaps if you ask him to unclench his buttocks, he will let you out
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Senior Member
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5. March 2009 @ 18:21 |
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A website is a privately owned space and not a democratic entity. They are completely entitled to create any rule they desire and enforce that rule in any way, fairly or unfairly as they wish.
Certainly they are required to abide by US labor laws with respect to hiring practices but the webspace is private.
Their only limitation is one of perception. If it is perceived that they are bigots then their bottom line will suffer.
Just like Afterdawn can create their rules here and ask their users to abide by them and enforce them as they wish.
In this case MS is not being unfair. They laid the rules out ahead of time. This user broke the rules and caused a severe disruption.
It seems pretty cut and dried to me.
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onya
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6. March 2009 @ 00:54 |
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Quote:
....we're not getting the full story here...
You can almost bet your last paycheck we are not getting all the information with regards to Teresa. A reasonable statement at this point would be that we are left un-informed for the most part. We may never know what kind of interactions have taken place within that sphere. We are left with a person crying discrimination, harassment and a high profile company backtracking and trying to save face. A fair assessment wouldn't you think?
If Teresa has broken the rules then she must accept the consequences, and if she has not, then Teresa deserves justice.
The absurdity of all this, has to be some of the comments and thoughts contained within this thread. Some have made me laugh, some of the others have left me completely gob smacked. Why would anyone want any person of any persuasion, forcing their views down our throats. It is simply not on and as individuals we don't tolerate it at all. Conversely however, other comments have suggested that we hide it...bury it and have it underground so as not to offend, confuse or challenge. Surely this view would seem a little odd and out of place to any informed, intelligent, enlightened and able human being. Just a touch of the Medieval going on with that one I think.
The individuals concerned in the alleged harassment are probably reasonable people within their homes and family environments, but get them all together and the outcome is predictable. With a mix of severe immaturity, coupled with the anonymity of the web, how could we expect anything different.
There is one safe bet however, and that is such company's will always make a fortune from the backs of unwary parents. I sincerely doubt that such company's even raise an eyebrow with these issues. Outward expressions of course will always but always tell a different story.
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abby111
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6. March 2009 @ 01:59 |
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Microsoft is awesome , no one can make no mistake ,and the most important is when you realized your mistake you can apologiae for it.so in my opinion Microsoft is awesome.
ok have comfortable topic, here i have a good share :
SPAM , it is the best onling shopping place i have ever see. kinds of beautiful electroncs with high quality and lower price!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. March 2009 @ 09:57
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Senior Member
4 product reviews
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6. March 2009 @ 02:33 |
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Originally posted by abby111:
Microsoft is awesome , no one can make no mistake ,and the most important is when you realized your mistake you can apologiae for it.so in my opinion Microsoft is awesome.
ok have comfortable topic, here i have a good share :
SPAM , it is the best onling shopping place i have ever see. kinds of beautiful electroncs with high quality and lower price!
¿...?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. March 2009 @ 09:57
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varnull
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6. March 2009 @ 02:50 |
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Originally posted by ThePastor:
A website is a privately owned space and not a democratic entity. They are completely entitled to create any rule they desire and enforce that rule in any way, fairly or unfairly as they wish.
Certainly they are required to abide by US labor laws with respect to hiring practices but the webspace is private.
Their only limitation is one of perception. If it is perceived that they are bigots then their bottom line will suffer.
Just like Afterdawn can create their rules here and ask their users to abide by them and enforce them as they wish.
In this case MS is not being unfair. They laid the rules out ahead of time. This user broke the rules and caused a severe disruption.
It seems pretty cut and dried to me.
I hope you realise that as soon as a website becomes a commercial paid for service it becomes liable for all the anti-discrimination legislation in every country it is accessible from... free to use forums are a different matter.. there any rules made can be 100% at the discretion of the owners of the site.. once you start taking money then various laws regarding use and access to the service and any discriminatory policies contained within rules can be challenged under the laws of whatever country either the site is based in.. or the complainant is from.
My previous post still stands.. M$ screwed up and have realised their rules are discriminatory... whether by accident or design they have learned another lesson about the world. Allowing people the option to say things about themselves is one thing.,. censoring them for expressing a preference which is legal to express is discrimination not a simple matter of rule breaking. The "no sexual content" means just that.. saying "oh.. I happen to be a lesbian/by/gay/trans" is not illegal and breaks no rules. If you are so bigoted and backward thinking that such statements offend you I suggest you either get an education rapidly, or rethink what religion you claim to belong to.. because you are the dinosaur.. it's the 21st century not the middle ages (though some countries are returning to them it seems). The world has changed beyond recognition.. while in practice discrimination through bigotry and hate of difference still hides behind religion and mob hysteria.. it is another thing entirely for a large company to use such lame excuses to discriminate against anyone. A few people complained they didn't like the word lesbian on a profile.. guess what.. get over it.. there are far worse things on XBL than the word lesbian.. or do you not have ears. I spent 3 minutes on there.. and that was enough for me. I don't want to hear foul mouthed homophobic racist kids screaming abuse at everybody.. no thanks. It's about playing games.. not being as offensive as possible to everybody.
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Senior Member
13 product reviews
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6. March 2009 @ 03:33 |
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Quote:
Originally posted by ThePastor:
A website is a privately owned space and not a democratic entity. They are completely entitled to create any rule they desire and enforce that rule in any way, fairly or unfairly as they wish.
Certainly they are required to abide by US labor laws with respect to hiring practices but the webspace is private.
Their only limitation is one of perception. If it is perceived that they are bigots then their bottom line will suffer.
Just like Afterdawn can create their rules here and ask their users to abide by them and enforce them as they wish.
In this case MS is not being unfair. They laid the rules out ahead of time. This user broke the rules and caused a severe disruption.
It seems pretty cut and dried to me.
I hope you realise that as soon as a website becomes a commercial paid for service it becomes liable for all the anti-discrimination legislation in every country it is accessible from... free to use forums are a different matter.. there any rules made can be 100% at the discretion of the owners of the site.. once you start taking money then various laws regarding use and access to the service and any discriminatory policies contained within rules can be challenged under the laws of whatever country either the site is based in.. or the complainant is from.
My previous post still stands.. M$ screwed up and have realised their rules are discriminatory... whether by accident or design they have learned another lesson about the world. Allowing people the option to say things about themselves is one thing.,. censoring them for expressing a preference which is legal to express is discrimination not a simple matter of rule breaking. The "no sexual content" means just that.. saying "oh.. I happen to be a lesbian/by/gay/trans" is not illegal and breaks no rules. If you are so bigoted and backward thinking that such statements offend you I suggest you either get an education rapidly, or rethink what religion you claim to belong to.. because you are the dinosaur.. it's the 21st century not the middle ages (though some countries are returning to them it seems). The world has changed beyond recognition.. while in practice discrimination through bigotry and hate of difference still hides behind religion and mob hysteria.. it is another thing entirely for a large company to use such lame excuses to discriminate against anyone. A few people complained they didn't like the word lesbian on a profile.. guess what.. get over it.. there are far worse things on XBL than the word lesbian.. or do you not have ears. I spent 3 minutes on there.. and that was enough for me. I don't want to hear foul mouthed homophobic racist kids screaming abuse at everybody.. no thanks. It's about playing games.. not being as offensive as possible to everybody.
But regardless of what you, or anyone else think about the issue, the woman broke the rules she agreed to when she joined Live. Microsoft has the right to deny her service for that. That's completely within US law.
And, again, the issue wasn't her being a lesbian, but her advertising her sexual preference. If in my gamer profile, which anyone using the Live service can see, I said that I liked girls with large breasts, I'd be banned. If I said I liked penis, I'd be banned.
However, if she were in a private session over Live with people she knew and discussed issues she had with a girlfriend over the headset, no one would care. She wouldn't have been reported, or been banned.
I'd also like to point out that Microsoft is in Washington. Have you ever been up here? We're pretty darn accepting.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. March 2009 @ 03:36
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onya
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6. March 2009 @ 03:33 |
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Originally posted by abby111:
Microsoft is awesome , no one can make no mistake ,and the most important is when you realized your mistake you can apologiae for it.so in my opinion Microsoft is awesome.
ok have comfortable topic, here i have a good share :
SPAM , it is the best onling shopping place i have ever see. kinds of beautiful electroncs with high quality and lower price!
Ahhh another voice of reason amongst the chaos, hoping to make a fortune from any and all feckwits that happen to admire such an intelligent and well thought out post.
Dearest Abby, it is with the greatest pleasure, that I and some of my fellow members say to you with absolute heart felt unity....
PI$$ OFF!
go peddle your crap elsewhere...
yours sincerely
most of us here.. XD
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. March 2009 @ 09:57
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AfterDawn Addict
6 product reviews
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6. March 2009 @ 04:38 |
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Quote:
After the woman revealed her homosexuality in her Xbox Live profile, she was continuously harassed, and Microsoft banned her account, saying many gamers found "her lesbianism offensive."/quote]To me this is ridiculous. We live in a world now that people regardless of sexual preference should be treated the same. I don't see how this users sexual preference would effect anyone. If you have a issue with it due to the fact that it has religious reasoning thats your opinion but i say its the users choice so be it. Let her live her life and live your own.
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Senior Member
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6. March 2009 @ 17:10 |
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Originally posted by "The always right and never wrong... Varnell":
If you are so bigoted and backward thinking that such statements offend you I suggest you either get an education rapidly, or rethink what religion you claim to belong to.. because you are the dinosaur.. it's the 21st century not the middle ages (though some countries are returning to them it seems). The world has changed beyond recognition.. while in practice discrimination through bigotry and hate of difference still hides behind religion and mob hysteria.. it is another thing entirely for a large company to use such lame excuses to discriminate against anyone.
Why do you call me a bigot, insult or attack my "religion" which you don't even know what it is and then insult me as a "dinosaur" or from the "middle ages"?
A) I have never been, nor will I ever be a bigot of any kind and my words and deeds express this entirely.
B) You have no clue what my religion is or isn't so have no basis for criticism.
C) I am a very enlightened, modern man who understands the intricacies of running a large online space. I have a great amount of experience doing it. I'm not some middle aged bumkin pulling crap out of my ass.
I've never insulted you or your opinions. I have no idea why you have reacted in this way and I demand an apology.
If you cannot debate an issue intelligently and without insults and attacks then maybe you should take a day or two off.
Oh, Im sorry... Did the middle of my sentence interrupt the beginning of yours?
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varnull
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6. March 2009 @ 21:04 |
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If the cap fits.... I must have hit a nerve.. Are you a bigoted dinosaur then.. a bible bashing turd from the mid west retard belt? did you see me use any more than generalisations about a certain category of people who love to attack and complain about anything that "offends" their twisted morals?
I have been admin on more than one commercial site.. that's how I happen to know what the law is regarding discrimination (whether through set down rules or otherwise) against customers.
The whole point of this topic has been missed.. M$ made a mistake.. acted in a discriminatory fashion against a minority.. and apologised.. nothing else to say really.. They know they got it wrong.. and the opinions of anybody who does not and has not ever been employed to run a commercial website doesn't matter..
BTW.. behind your back we call you "the moron" lol .. want proof of that too.. or will you also act like you have been hurt by some generalisations about the wider internet PC brigade.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. March 2009 @ 21:21
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ericg8
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6. March 2009 @ 22:44 |
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Originally posted by ThePastor:
Originally posted by "Why do you call me a bigot, insult or attack my "religion" which you don't even know what it is and then insult me as a "dinosaur" or from the "middle ages"?...[/quote:
By using the handle "ThePastor", you are putting your religion out there for all to see, and while we might not know what particular brand you promote, we would be pretty safe in speculating that it is a Christian variant. It may surprise you to know that many people are tired of the conflicts, political turbulence, bigotry, intolerance, and hate, fomented by followers and leaders of your various sects.
Given your alleged senior position, we might infer that you are in fact old relative to venues like this with a traditionally young audience, making you a dinosaur, or "old creepy guy at the club" if you prefer.
And, given the archaic basis for your faith, stone tablets, dusty scrolls, ancient rituals, etc, we might also describe your value system as more appropriate to the middle ages.
You will no doubt feel attacked by our concerns and observations based partially upon your handle, but the victim in this story may be guilty of little more than identifying herself by attributes she holds dear just as you have. Perhaps her handle is "TheLesbian", to which bible-thumpers and alterboy humpers all go balistic.
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Senior Member
4 product reviews
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7. March 2009 @ 00:26 |
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Is it me or is thread getting hot, almost flaming.
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onya
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7. March 2009 @ 00:36 |
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Originally posted by DXR88:
Is it me or is thread getting hot, almost flaming.
And I thought living here in Australia got a little warm! I think you might be right DXR88, things are heating up just a tad. :)
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Senior Member
13 product reviews
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8. March 2009 @ 01:25 |
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Originally posted by varnull:
If the cap fits.... I must have hit a nerve.. Are you a bigoted dinosaur then.. a bible bashing turd from the mid west retard belt? did you see me use any more than generalisations about a certain category of people who love to attack and complain about anything that "offends" their twisted morals?
I have been admin on more than one commercial site.. that's how I happen to know what the law is regarding discrimination (whether through set down rules or otherwise) against customers.
The whole point of this topic has been missed.. M$ made a mistake.. acted in a discriminatory fashion against a minority.. and apologised.. nothing else to say really.. They know they got it wrong.. and the opinions of anybody who does not and has not ever been employed to run a commercial website doesn't matter..
BTW.. behind your back we call you "the moron" lol .. want proof of that too.. or will you also act like you have been hurt by some generalisations about the wider internet PC brigade.
Learn to properly use elipses, Varnull.
They weren't discriminating, they banned her for from the service for breaking the contract she agreed to when she subscribed to it by advertising a sexual preference. And don't pretend Microsoft as a whole feels remorse for this incident, they're covering their collective ass from the media blitz this received.
Originally posted by Eric8:
Originally posted by ThePastor:
"Why do you call me a bigot, insult or attack my "religion" which you don't even know what it is and then insult me as a "dinosaur" or from the "middle ages"?...
By using the handle "ThePastor", you are putting your religion out there for all to see, and while we might not know what particular brand you promote, we would be pretty safe in speculating that it is a Christian variant. It may surprise you to know that many people are tired of the conflicts, political turbulence, bigotry, intolerance, and hate, fomented by followers and leaders of your various sects.
Given your alleged senior position, we might infer that you are in fact old relative to venues like this with a traditionally young audience, making you a dinosaur, or "old creepy guy at the club" if you prefer.
And, given the archaic basis for your faith, stone tablets, dusty scrolls, ancient rituals, etc, we might also describe your value system as more appropriate to the middle ages.
You will no doubt feel attacked by our concerns and observations based partially upon your handle, but the victim in this story may be guilty of little more than identifying herself by attributes she holds dear just as you have. Perhaps her handle is "TheLesbian", to which bible-thumpers and alterboy humpers all go balistic.
Learn to use quote tags, Eric.
Keep generalizing religious folk, that's not a closed way of thinking at all. 9_9
Believe it or not, there are normal people who believe in a creator... Calling every religious person bitter and crazy is just as bad as the people who fit that bill calling atheists malicious and hateful. On the same note, you call those who believe in a certain God closed-minded for complaining about people who do things that conflict with their beliefs, and that's bad, and yet you turn around and call them idiots for doing things that conflict with your beliefs, and that's fine. Weird how that works.
Not to say I agree with the uptight radical holier-than-thou types, but you can't generalize a group of people and base an argument against their generalizations on generalizations of your own.
The only closed-minded and truly bitter or hateful people I've seen in this thread are you two, who claim that people with beliefs that differ from yours are closed-minded and bitter.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. March 2009 @ 01:44
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ericg8
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8. March 2009 @ 01:51 |
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Originally posted by nintenut:
Believe it or not, there are normal people who believe in a creator... Calling every religious person bitter and crazy is just as bad as the people who fit that bill calling atheists wicked.
The only closed-minded and truly bitter or hateful people I've seen in this thread are you two, who claim that people with beliefs that differ from yours are closed-minded and bitter.
All these nested quotes are confusing, no?
I was responding to one particular person who defended casting out a participant based upon her professed sexual preference. And, while certainly not all religious people are such bigots, it would seem that a majority if not all such bigots defend their actions with numerous references to their chosen brand of religious Kool-aid.
I was also defending attacks against another responder who in my opinion made some valid if not eloquently presented points.
I was also having some fun at ThePastor's expense. Shame on me. But it was so much fun. A guilty pleasure perhaps, using words and truth to poke fun at someone that clings so vehemently to their chosen word and truth.
Finally on a more serious note, I will not hesitate to vigorously protect the weak and outnumbered in any way that I can, be they religious or atheist, lesbian or straight. I will speak up for them, as I would hope that you would speak up for me. I cannot believe in this enlightened age when we have elected blacks, clergy, gays, women, the physically handicapped, and even retards to the highest offices in the land, that truly narrow-minded companies and individuals would still seek to deny fair and even treatment to any law-abiding person based upon what they think or feel, or any inherent quality of their being. And if you find that offensive, close-minded or bitter, then I feel sorry for you.
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Senior Member
4 product reviews
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8. March 2009 @ 03:46 |
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This thread is on Fire Baby, Yeah!!!
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mazaar
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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8. March 2009 @ 03:47 |
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Originally posted by varnull:
If the cap fits.... I must have hit a nerve.. Are you a bigoted dinosaur then.. a bible bashing turd from the mid west retard belt? did you see me use any more than generalisations about a certain category of people who love to attack and complain about anything that "offends" their twisted morals?
I have been admin on more than one commercial site.. that's how I happen to know what the law is regarding discrimination (whether through set down rules or otherwise) against customers.
The whole point of this topic has been missed.. M$ made a mistake.. acted in a discriminatory fashion against a minority.. and apologised.. nothing else to say really.. They know they got it wrong.. and the opinions of anybody who does not and has not ever been employed to run a commercial website doesn't matter..
BTW.. behind your back we call you "the moron" lol .. want proof of that too.. or will you also act like you have been hurt by some generalisations about the wider internet PC brigade.
its a messed up world when a freak of nature thinks that your a bigot or bible basher for thinking that 2 animals of the same sex shouldnt have go together, you are a pervert,its you that are wrong,its you that should hide in shame.fashion dictates that we pretend perverts & cripples are equal to the rest of society,roll on the next fashion.
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Senior Member
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8. March 2009 @ 03:52 |
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Fight,Fight,Fight. whoohooo!!!!
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Senior Member
13 product reviews
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8. March 2009 @ 04:02 |
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The bitter and hateful bit was directed at the points you made against those who believe in a God, like the cult references in both of your posts... And discounting any religion because it's old, that's bull. I'm just really tired of your condescending Youtube Atheist attitude.
I'm not saying that it isn't possible for any God to not exist, it's just the religion I'm committed to and I'm going to defend it. You're defending yours. We can keep going on this topic for an eternity, and neither of us will have swayed the other in his direction of thinking.
Anyway, that's the problem with this situation... I agree that they shouldn't ban people for being gay, and they don't, what they don't want is for people to advertise their sexual preferences, which you agree not to do when you sign up for Live through the TOS, which she broke and was banned for. (How many times have I said that so far? And no one has argued against it... That's what it boils down to, right?)
I approve of this only because the girl broke the rules set by the company for the service she subscribed to. Companies are allowed to do that. If the rule was "NO HOMOS", I'd be against it, and as pointed out by Varnull, would probably break some law somewhere, but it's not, and doesn't.
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varnull
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8. March 2009 @ 12:43 |
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sorry.. the way they applied it IS discriminatory.. and THEY DID break more than one law... Any BS tos they force people to sign has been proved time and time again to never overthrow local laws.
as for god...
so some supreme being created the whole universe.. and decided to tell some goatherders scrabbling about in a semi-desert.. and didn't give them ANY proof.
If I don't believe that fairy tale then some angel this supreme and all forgiving being threw out of paradise will burn me alive forever..
Bring on the pink elephants and aliens *giggles*
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ericg8
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8. March 2009 @ 12:52 |
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Originally posted by nintenut:
\And discounting any religion because it's old, that's bull. I'm just really tired of your condescending Youtube Atheist attitude.
The irony is, that I would just as willingly defend you, should you ever be denied access to an establishment because say, you are wearing a cross or carrying a bible. I'm not gay, but I find your irrational fear of homos a bit frightening. Especially when it is codified it into corporate or government policy. What next? No gun owners? No Jews? No witches? I seriously doubt she was behaving in an inappropriate manner. She just didn't hide who she is. The horror!
Originally posted by nintenut:
The bitter and hateful bit was directed at the points you made against those who believe in a God, like the cult references in both of your posts
You are so quick to defend your beliefs, your skin so thin. And yet, you support the ousting of this girl for simply exposing who she is. Stop a minute and think about that.... If MS made a rule "no Jews", would you defend that? What if they said, Jews are permitted, but only if they keep us from finding out that they are Jewish. Is that better? You see the line between banning a group, and only banning them from identifying with that group is a fine line indeed. So are you going on record as defending that sort of thing? What if it were Christians being singled out? What if it were Wiccans? What if it were Atheists?
I suspect that the only group you are going to defend is Christians. And you decry my "condescending Youtube attitude."
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